Subject SMML30/10/99VOL714 Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:29:23 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: SMMLlie in trouble! 2: IPMS(UK) results 3: IPMS UK viewed from the French side 4: Re: Toilet chains n cables 5: Russian atomic icebreaker "Arktika" 6: Re: ALPS printers 7: 1/350 Tirpitz 8: On Mikasa 9: Chains and Cables 10: Re: Damaged models, a judges reply 11: Re: FSM info 12: Mikasa 13: Re: WW1 Warship afloat 14: Re: Maritime Modeler Magazine 15: Russian Warship Color Reference 16: Re: Japanese WW1 Ship in Tokyo Harbour? - and RN Cruiser bands. 17: Re: WW1 warship 18: German predreadnought color 19: Taschkent 20: About Y2K- also USS Vestal 21: GATO/BALAO screws 22: Re: WWI Battleships 23: Waldron Products 24: it's ONLY baseball? 25: BASEBALL.. IS THAT A REAL GAME? 26: Re: Damaged Model 27: Re: FSM and DEs 28: Re: Japanese WW1 Ship in Tokyo Harbour? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: 1/700 Vosper MTB's 2: Maritime Modeler Clarification 3: 1/700 IJN aircraft - wheel and prop set -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Lorna & my best wishes go out to SMMLie Brian Fawcett who has just suffered an heart attack(see Caroline's post below). Our best wishes also to his wife Kath & son Peter. Brian, this issue's for you mate. Shane & Lorna Jenkins -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: SMMLlie in trouble! Hi Guys, Just to let you all know that we had some bad news last night.. Brian Fawcett, who has been the pattern maker for all the most recent WEM 1/700 scale stuff, from Chester thru Warspite, and the entire Airstrike/Dockyard ranges, AND the pattern maker behind the 1/350 HMS Sheffield, and the re-worker of all the older WEM kits with his magnificent super-detaling, had a heart attack the day before yesterday and is currently in Coronary Care at Chesterfield Hospital. He had felt unwell for a few days and wasn't himself at the Nationals, complaining about lightheadedness and tingling in his hands.. not like our Brian to whinge about anything! This has been a shock to us all as Brian is not yet fifty, and we can only send our best wishes to Brian, his wife Kath, and their 10 year old son, Peter. Assuming that he developes no further complications, he will hopefully be back home inside a week, and, if anyone would like to drop him an E-Mail before that time, at: mailto:brianfawcett@modelsandpatterns.freeserve.co.uk I think that when he logs on for the first time after the visit, he will be amazed and buoyed up by the level of concern that I am sure that many of you are willing to express (as evidenced when Dave had his diving accident). The thought of losing a fine friend and a man of such incredible talent is quite distressing. A coronary is of course extremely debilitating, both mentally and physically, and I want to see Brian up and well enough to carry on with his fine work. Many thanks to folks in advance. Caroline and Dave Carter White Ensign Models PS If any of you would like his address (we'll be sending him a Get-Well Card and a "How to Give Up Smoking" pack!!), it is as follows: Brian Fawcett 19, Hawthorn Drive Cromford, near Matlock Derbyshire DE4 3QN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Shane Subject: IPMS(UK) results Hi gang, Nick Allen the webmaster of the IPMS(UK) site has now added the results of last weekend's Nats. At the moment, he hasn't got many pictures up, but they will be added over the coming week. Go to: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ipmsuk/nationalsreport.htm And while you're there, have a look around as well ;-)). Regards, Shane APMA VP http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "larsenal" Subject: IPMS UK viewed from the French side Hello! Caroline Carter of White Ensign Models suggested me to report to you, poor SMML fellows that had not the chance to be at the IPMS UK Convention, what was the French view of this manifestation. Good idea! First, as I told her, I was like a child discovering his first Christmas tree when I entered the Convention. We have definitively nothing equivalent over here ! What impressed me was the huge number of people present, not only of the male kind, but also women were interested in this hobby, and also of importance I saw many children in the lanes, this means that the hobby in England has many good years to come. In my opinion we have less teens interested by modeling in France and this is maybe one of the reasons why the market is so small now. Also of interest was the general kindness of people, even the best decorated modeler was really accessible to other fellows. ( I had the experience of someone I met on a friend'stand during Saturday and Sunday and who came back with 6-7 different awards !) About the models exhibited, there were many and of quality ! On the contest side of course the Somali won the best of show in ships because of its incredible quality. Many other models were of great interest (I remember a Rodney) and mostly RN orientated. About the quality I must admit that many models on the WEM stand could have win a lot of prices too. (I particularly loved the two 1/350 minesweepers!) Also very interested for me is the SIG ( Special Interest Group ) phenomenon. It is very pleasant to see clubs dealing only in RN ships, Carriers etc... All their exhibits were of interest for me. Also very pleasant was the fact that the WEM stand was crowded all the time ! I remember Caroline and Dave having their first sandwich around 4 pm on the Sunday afternoon ! This means that people are interested in ship modeling !!!! I also heard a joke at one time, near a stand: Do you know why there are no more cannonballs onboard the HMS Victory preserved in Porthmouth? Because the French Navy borrowed them all in Trafalgar... Conclusion: I'll be back next year to show the flag! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: Toilet chains n cables Hi Derek, This is probably unique to the R.N., poss. the whole Royal and Commonwealth Navies, and goes back to the days of sail when they used cable rather than chain. I am aware that the USN does not use this term in the same context.. out of interest, I have never come across an American toilet with a chain! All The Best, Caroline Carter WHITE ENSIGN MODELS STILL learning to Play the Bagpipes.. see "Porage Guns" and "Agony Bags" in Jackspeak -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "ERIC OLSON" Subject: Russian atomic icebreaker "Arktika" I previously posted a request to this list about the Russian atomic icebreaker "Arktika," but, unfortunately, didn't get much of a response. So. . . let's try again. I recently purchased a 1/400 scale kit of the Arktika, but the box art and instructions are pitiful. Does anyone out there in Shipmodeler List Land have any information on the colors applied to this ship? Anybody got any photos (B&W or color) that they can scan and post to the list on the Arktika? Anything would help at this stage of the game. Thanks in advance. Eric O.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: ALPS printers For those of you wanting to print your own decals, you can now buy an ALPS MD-1000 printer (they have a special price on the 5000 too but the 1000 will do all you need) as an open box special for $149.00 at the ALPS page at http://www.alpsusa.com. An "open box special" is a factory refurbished unit with a one year warrantee. I've been using mine for about 3 years and it works great. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Edward Brown" Subject: 1/350 Tirpitz Bob, Camouflage for Tirpitz can be found in full colour in Kriegsmarine - a pictorial history 1935 -1945 This book is published by Squadron/Signal Publications ISBN Nos 0-89747-094-X unfortunately as long ago as 1979 Hopefully the above is helpful Tirpitz is shown in colour for July 1942 - Rosselsprung and March 1944 as in Norway. There are also black and white photos of her deck camouflage in Norway. Regards Edward -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: On Mikasa On Mikasa: Here is the Warship1 URL on the Mikasa class specs and pics: http://www.warships1.com/JAPpbb12_Mikasa.htm She was was pre-WWI ship, having fought in the Russo-Japanese war. Steve Allen, all of whose ship models are Y2K compliant. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Barry Gerrard" Subject: Chains and Cables In the Canadian Navy the anchor "chain" is referred to as the "cable" and the chains are a portable platform extended over the side of the ship to enable a person to observe the anchor cable. The cable other than the appropriate colours to indicate how much cable is paid out, is normally painted black where it is visible on deck when the anchor is home. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Damaged models, a judges reply >> Sorry, but just how does removing the model's protective cover protect it from damage??? << I knew I would catch flak for this. I'm sorry, that was pretty unclear. What I encourage most modelers to do is leave the cover on the model (during public viewing) and remove it for the short time needed to judge it. After judging the model, the cover would then be replaced by a judge or when the modeler returned. The point I was trying to make was, if the modeler removed the cover instead of the judges it would be less likely to be damaged by anyone but the owner. >> Jim Baumann's only mistake was in not locking down the cover so it could not be removed. << If the cover was not removable it would not be judged. This happened to several models in Orlando. >> Not blame the judges? I have witnessed an airplane in aircraft diorama ripped from its base when the judge, his glasses dangling from a lanyard, leaned over to look at something across the table, inadvertantly hooked his glasses under a wing, then stood up. The Plexiglas box cover had been removed just like the rules said. Another judge, when pointing out a detail on one of my ship models to a colleague, accidentally drew a black line on the modeled water base with the uncapped felt-to pen he was using as a pointer. The well-meaning sod then proceeded to pick off part of the plaster with his fingernail while attempting to remove the mark. His apology was genuine, but it did not reverse the damage. Maybe the IPMS rule should require entries be enclosed in protective cases. << Sorry, I guess there are saps no matter where you are. Anyone pointing at a models with uncovered felt tip should have been reprimanded by the head category judge. I can tell you this. EVERY YEAR all this is gone over with every judge at the prejudging meeting. They tell the judges NEVER assume a model is fastened to its base. Too bad we can't require common sense. As you pointed out, the judge did the right (and only) thing he could do. He apologized, and stood to hear the music. That's as it should be. Starting last year, all judges are REQUIRED (in case of judges damage) to write a note along with their name and explain what happened and apologize. We also are now REQUIRED to scan our respective categories and report any prejudging damage to the head judge. After all, most damage to the models is inflicted by the public. There is nothing outside of banning the general public (and the judges) that will stop models from being damaged at contests. While we're at it we had better stop doing contests and displays at all. A good deal of breakage is done by the modeler either setting up or removing their model from the model room. Everyone knows anytime you display in public, there is always the chance of damage to your models. As head ship judge I take these problems very seriously and I go to whatever measures necessary to keep everyone's work of art safe. I am making a list of problems like this and I plan to bring this to the ship judges at the Nats. Rusty White IPMS head ship judge "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" Hi gang, Thought I'd throw my two cents in here ;-) Last year, I helped judge the APMA ship competition & the ship that won was a scratchbuilt tug in a SECURED glass case. In this case I could see the model well enough to judge & award it first prize & the other judges could see it well enough to award the Best Model Award WITHOUT(not that we could) opening the case. There are some options here AFAICS, either: 1) Change the rules & allow the models to be judged without opening the case. 2) Have the modeller ONLY remove the case, before & after it's been judged. 3) Don't enter any models in comps that have the above options. 4) Make sure you know the ground rules before entering ANY comp. If you don't like the rules, don't enter. Regards, Shane APMA VP http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: FSM info >> Could anyone tell me what issue number (and month) that is and where I might acquire it Mail Order or on the 'Net? << The issue is the latest issue and FSM has a web site where you can subscribe to their magazine. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Mike Connelley Subject: Mikasa Howdy: Here's a web site I found with a few nice pictures of the Mikasa: http://www.mindspring.com/~photon/kongo/mikasa.html cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "cpalfreeman" Subject: Re: WW1 Warship afloat I can distictly remember a WW1 (ish) warship at anchor off the Greek Island of Poros, where I spent an alcoholic week in 1979. It was being used by the Greek Navy as part of their Officar Cadet Training School which, if memory serves me right, was based there too. I can't believe that they'd have scrapped or disposed of it since then. Yes, I've tried to find photos, but no I don't appear to have any. Sorry ! Charles Palfreeman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: Re: Maritime Modeler Magazine >> Am I right in thinking that this is/was that new magazine, or am I confusing things again? << Mike: Yes, this was the new magazine that was supposed to make its debut with the Jan. 2000 issue that was then announced as being a bit delayed. Next we have the announcement by the former editor Victor Baca that he is no longer associated with the magazine and they may or may not ever publish said magazine. But now Victor wants us to support his proposed magazine. I sure would like to see a new magazine on the market, but I wonder if it will get off the ground. I wish him luck. Take care, Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Crossoflron@aol.com Subject: Russian Warship Color Reference HI, Since there was some discussion about Russian Navy colors there are two books now on eBay that might be of interest to you guys. One of them has period watercolors and is about Armored Warships 1865 - 1917 and looks pretty cool the other one looks like modern paintings but they are in color anyway. Same company is auctioning them both. http://cgi.ebay.aol.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=189926606 http://cgi.ebay.aol.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=189922495 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "David Hathaway" Subject: Re: Japanese WW1 Ship in Tokyo Harbour? - and RN Cruiser bands. Mark The ship is the Mikasa, a WWI Japanese pre-dreadnought. It was the flagship for Admiral Togo at the battle of Tsushima (?spelling). It survived being bombed during WWII and was saved from destructionj by the Allies after WWII by the clever Japanese housing authorities filling it with Japanese refugees. There is a web site dedicated to it, a hunt with Altavista or similar should find it. On cruiser bands - Mark, there is another modeller on the list who (puts helmet and flak jacket on) thinks that the WWI and earlier ships are more interesting than all those "samey" WWII battlewagons. You are not alone. The procedure that was changed after the triple sinking you refer to was to make all capital ships leave the immediate vicinity of a suspected torpedo attack and have any survivors picked up by smaller (eg disposable) vessels. This continued through WWII. David Hathaway -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "cpalfreeman" Subject: Re: WW1 warship After posting my earlier reply I've been looking around on the Web, and was horrified at first to learn that the ship in Poros Harbour is in fact a WW2 U.S. Destroyer under restoration. How embarrassing ( Well, at least it's a warship) However, after a little further digging I discover that my memory and/or ship recognition ) perhaps isn't as bad as I thought: Naval and Maritime Museums: Greece http://pc-78-120.udac.se:8001/WWW/Nautica/Museums/mmeugr.html Poros Naval Base: Georg Averoff (1910), Armoured cruiser/pocket battleship built in England in 1910. ~10,000 tons, 4x10" 8x6" main armament. Check before visiting; About 1980 it was still an active training base. Only open Wednesday and Saturday afternoons. It is possible the base might have been closed or the ship moved since then. Day trip from Athens. Since then I can find no more about it. Good luck Charles Hi Charles, That may have been the ex-SMS Goeben which was transferred to Turkey, helping to bring her in WW1 on the side of the Central Powers. IIRC, she was later scrapped. HTH, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Bob Zobal Subject: German predreadnought color Does anyone have a favorite Humbrol color to suggest for the overall gray used on German warships around the turn of the century? It appears very light in some photographs. Possibly one of the medium grays mixed with white? Bob Zobal Minneapolis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: olivier CORTOT Subject: Taschkent I have the Taschkent, a soviet WWII destroyer, from Samek models, (1/700). What color must I use for the hull? what railings should I use to match soviet navy railings? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Mike C" Subject: About Y2K- also USS Vestal I recently read that the state of Oregon thought they were Y2K ready until new auto registrations on model year 2000 cars started coming back listed as "horseless carriages." Ooops! Looks like it's back to the drawing board for them. It is my understanding that most home PC (and Mac) users have nothing to worry about concerning Y2K. The problem will lie with main frame type systems that were designed (or have their origins) in the 60's and 70's. If you are very worried about the affects then plan to print out hard copies of any vital information that you might have stored on your computer. I have a strong feeling that it will be like Giraldo Rivera and Al Capone's Vault...nothing there. Now for something completely different: Does anyone know *why* Vestal was tied up alongside Arizona on the morning of December 7? The most I've heard is that it was for "routine maintenance," but I have a feeling it was to install support equipment (electrical and hydraulic lines) in preparation for mounting the 1.1" gun mounts. Any other thoughts? Anyone? Anyone? Mike Czibovic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: LUCASNER@aol.com Subject: GATO/BALAO screws I know, I know...this was covered in a thread a few months ago..BUT.... In the November issue of SEA CLASSICS, there's an interesting feature on USS TUNNY (SSG-282) after she had been converted to carry the Regulus. Well, there's a shot of her in dry-dock from astern showing clearly her (according to the caption) "five-bladed high speed propellers." My question is this...were the Fleet subs fitted with 5-bladed screws during their GUPPY upgrades? I assume...since I've been "away" thanks to the President for the last few months..that the outcome of that earlier thread was that the Fleet subs were in fact fitted with 4-bladed screws during the war, correct? Finally (getting a lot off my mind here), were the propeller guards removed off all the GATO/BALAOs during the war? More details here please.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: WWI Battleships The book you're looking for is "Battleships of World War I" by Anthony Preston. My copy was published by Stackpole Books in 1972. The ISBN number is 0-8117-0211-1. About the Mikasa. There's a color "walk around" of the Mikasa on the navis magazine site in the archives. But you have to be a subscriber to access it. Marc Flake Tarrant County, Texas (First we get baseball, the United State's national metaphor, dissed. Now someone is dissing football, the national metaphor of Texas. Sheesh indeed) (BTW, once a non-USA team did win the World Series) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Michael D'Silva" Subject: Waldron Products Does anybody know if Waldron Products has a Web site or E-mail address they can be contacted through? So far, I've searched the 'Net unsuccessfully. I do have a snail mail address for them, which I got from Building and Detailing Scale Model Ships by Mike Ashey, but surely a Web or E-mail address would be far more convenient. Alternatively, would anyone know if any of the major hobby shops in Australia stocks the Waldron Punch Set? So far, every hobby shop I've asked has resulted in, "A what??!!" "Nope, never heard of such a thing". Michael D Hi Michael, Try NKR at: http://www.ballarat.net.au/nkrmodels/. & Just Planes at: http://www.justplanes.com.au Earl & Jeff should ne able to help you out. Tell them that someone from APMA sent ya ;-)) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Denis & Marilyn Campbell Subject: it's ONLY baseball? Mark, you hit the nail right on the head - nobody understands. As not only a baseball BUT a Red Sox fan (last championship win in 1912, for G_d's sake!) I sometimes try to explain the Billy Buckner incident to out-of staters and have to end up screaming,"You just DON'T understand!". How can they ever understand the frustration. (Did you see the sign in the stands during the Mets/Braves series "God is a Mets Fan - ask Billy Buckner"? And, Mike - "World Series" because this was the only place in the world the game was played (we have since allowed Canada to partake - guess I need a foxhole now). Soccer and Rugby have merit - but cricket? that is literally watching grass grow for up to 5 days - and ending up with no winner! Chess is more exciting. Now, I am going to emigrate - maybe to Chechnya where it may be safer :>)) Denis Campbell Avon MA Hey Denis, Chechnya would be safer I suppose. As for cricket being boring, well for those with short attention spans ;-), we have one day cricket as well with limited overs. Where draws are virtually unknown. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: BASEBALL.. IS THAT A REAL GAME? Hi you all.. Hi guys Don't mean to be rude but whats this about Baseball being a world series...? like Mike said Cricket, Soccer, Rugby, Golf (yawn).. yes they are played all over the world.. but Baseball.. where? and is it like softball???? (heh heh heh) Simon Shane what on earth are you running for cover for???? you big tough Aussie? Simon, It's the same reason why you're always so quiet around Lorna ;->>>. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Damaged Model >> This why IPMS/USA rules state that covers must be removed before the model will be judged. << I also heard many exasperated modeller getting upset when they were informed, Saturday Night, that their models didnt win anything because they werent judges.....the new rule was covered models dont get judged, unless the cover is part of the overall effect, of course. Lots of sputtering and grumbling, but luckily nobody did their imitation of a Colorado high school student. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: James Corley Subject: Re: FSM and DEs >> As I live in a small town in the middle of nowhere (excuse me, the official Chamber of Commerce phrase is "the middle of everywhere"), I cannot find same. Could anyone tell me what issue number (and month) that is and where I might acquire it Mail Order or on the 'Net? << The kit is currently out there in the Rev-Germany box as the HMS Bligh, dont know the kit number. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Japanese WW1 Ship in Tokyo Harbour? >> A friend of mine was showing me some photos they took in Japan while on Holiday there this year. One of the pics was of a cruise they went on from Mikasa Pier (to Sarushima - 'Monkey' Island) @ Yokusuka in Greater Tokyo. What interested me immediately though was what appeared to be a WW1 vintage warship in the background! << Not to sound like a smart alec, but the pier is named after the ship, the Mikasa. Mikasa is the last survivor of the Russo-Japanese War and is the last pre-dreadnought battleship preserved, I beleive. Y2K Note to Shane, I hear on your side of the Pacific they are selling pills to cure the Y2K bug in Hong Kong, and Singapore(?) has been offering Y@K Bug Repellant for a while too....dont get sucked in ;) Yeah, I've heard of them. They're thinking of trying a softer market & importing them to the states ;-)). Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: 1/700 Vosper MTB's Hiya! Re the query on this subject, we've still got Skywave SW02 1/700 Vospers, Elco's and S-Boats, in stock, at 6.80 pounds (around $11.00) if you are interested. All The Best Caroline Carter WEM http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Victor Baca" Subject: Maritime Modeler Clarification Good Morning: Regarding Mike's request for clarification in SMMl Vol 13, the "Maritime Modeler" item was concerning the "new magazine" and it appears to be DOA, at least for now. I cut the mooring lines from Hundman for very good reasons, best left between myself and the publisher. Whether or not the publisher intends to ressurect the magazine, I cannot say. I have been contacting authors to advise them of the new developments, and apologize if I have not yet informed everyone out there. If anyone who has submitted material wishes to contact me, I am still available at my Photomarine Archives office: (360) 371-0290 or via e-mail at victorbaca@excite.com. I will maintain the present office location for Photomarine Journal, so you shouldn't have a problem making contact. I do intend to publish my new quarterly as a Photomarine Archives publication and am in the process of putting the project together. Maritime Modeler was to be my vision of what the ideal ship modeler's magazine should be and that goal will carry on with Photomarine Journal. We're collecting some really great plans and photos and are gathering modeling articles. This thing has taken on a life of its own and it's amazing how much support there is out there among ship modelers. As far as subscription info goes, please be patient, I will advise as soon as that info is available. I want Photomarine Journal to launch fully prepared to serve your needs and wants, so I'll keep you posted on her progress. Happy Modeling Victor Baca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Tom & Carolyn Harrison" Subject: 1/700 IJN aircraft - wheel and prop set Something new for the IJN modelers from Tom's Modelworks. We have just released a new aircraft wheel and prop set to cover all the current IJN carrier aircraft in the various 1/700 scale kits Set #744 1/700 Scale is priced at $6.25. This set is similar to Set #712 which covers US aircraft type and is also priced at $6.25 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume