Subject: SMML03/11/99VOL718 Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 00:46:10 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Spanish Civil War at sea. 2: Re: Cases 3: Builders needed 4: Cases for models 5: Ordance on blimps 6: RN Camouflage 7: Pennsylvania progress report 8: About Spanish Civil War Naval Ops 9: On AI San Fransisco, Revell Enterprise, and Seaplane Tenders 10: Re: Mystery Carrier 11: Derek and his California BB 12: H M S Emerald 13: [Cosmo] Spinal Tap to Yamato... easy! (fwd) 14: Re: Russian Armored Fleet 15: German pre-Dreadnought colors 16: Finds while traveling 17: Tom's 1/350 Arizona -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: "Getting Back To Business" - New Kit and Book Releases From Pacific Front Hobbies 2: On the Revell Cutaway SSBN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Gordon Hogg Subject: Re: Spanish Civil War at sea. Not long ago a listmember posted a query about the naval aspects of the Spanish Civil War. Unless you've already received a lot of information, send me a note offlist and I'll take a quick look at my files and library. Best regards, Gordon Hogg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Cases I really appreciate all the comments pro and con about the "case" rule. The IPMS(USA) Contest Committee encourages input from all modelers so we can fairly configure the rules to all entrants. We have put together the new rules for the convention in Dallas and I believe we have made several positive changes. They should be printed up in the IPMS(USA) Journal either in the next issue or the one thereafter. The case rule is there, but I do want to hear from you on this. I am on the IPMS(USA) Contest Committee and my job (jobs) is to represent the ship categories and ship modelers interests. There have been several very good arguments both pro and con concerning the cover rule. When we meet in Dallas I promise to reflect your concerns. The problem discussing it here is that 75% of the people that enter the ship categories don't have access to the WWW. So, what I hear in this forum must be taken with a grain of salt. However, I promise that I am listening. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "lcp9" Subject: Builders needed I've gotten 2 requests for someone to build 1/700 kits as gifts. What is currently wanted is a civilian T-2 tanker & a Victory ship. Interested builders please contact me off line & I'll put you in touch with the interested persons Thanks David Angelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: Cases for models I am intrigued to read posts suggesting that the presence of a case prevents a judge from seeing the detail on a ship model and so they must be removed for judging. I have examined ship models in competitions and have never found a cover to get in the way at all - after all, we are talking of a sheet of transparent glass or Perspex that is no more than three inches at most from the model itself, not a six-foot square mahogany construction with a six-inch window and a 1/700 minesweeper in the centre. Most (hopefully, all) judges are actually modellers themselves and if their eyesight is so bad as to prevent them assessing details from a few inches away, may I suggest that it must be pretty tricky to build their own models? In the unlikely event that any of my ship models ever get finished, I for one will not be transporting or exhibiting them without cases and if that prevents me from entering competitions, I can certainly live with that. If it is necessary to look at inaccessible areas (and I have always found poorly modelled entries to betray it in the visible ones anyway), then use a mirror on a stick like my dentist and a torch and try not to look as silly as the whole thing sounds. I have judged numerous military vehicle classes in competitions and have never even contemplated lifting up a model to examine the underside of it. I am horrified that a judge in an aircraft class would do so - if the modeller has done a good job on the visible parts, I am prepared to accept that the invisible ones will not have gaping holes and even if it does, I am not concerned enough to risk breaking it to catch the bloke out. Similarly, if all the hatches are open and the interior is evidently bare and unpainted, I will penalise but I will not remove a turret with closed hatches to check! We only move models by their bases and if there are no bases, they stay where they are unless it is necessary to move them between classes, for which we prefer to have the entrant move them. If this lifting and turning over is the kind of practice that is routine, I will have to give thought to encasing all my competition entries and probably bolting them to the table as well..... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "hugh1lottie2" Subject: Ordance on blimps Does anyone have photos or know how ASW ordance was hung from blimps? Just need some confirmation. Thank you Hugh Letterly -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: ogilvietv@webtv.net (Donna Ogilvie) Subject: RN Camouflage Hi All: I am about to start work on two RN Ships and need some assistance with the camo. schemes. The first ship is a Hunt class, the HMS Ledbury,during the Malta convoy in which she assisted the tanker Ohio into Malta. This is Approximately July-August 1942. I have one photo of her during 1942 apparently in a western approaches scheme. She was assigned the escort to Gib.and on to Malta on short notice. Does anyone know if her camo. was repainted and to what type? The second ship is the HMS Decoy,a D class DD in the Med. during the battle and retreat from Crete April-May 1941.As I understand it the Med ships at that time wore unofficial schemes designed usually y by the crew or by the squadron. In this case I am looking for photos or drawings assuming she was not in a solid color. Thanks very much for the assistance Greg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Jean-Paul Binot" Subject: Pennsylvania progress report Hi SMMLers, I am still on my Pennsylvania project and I thought some of you might be interested to read about it (my first venture out of the safe waters of European navies). It is a bit more challenging than I would have thought because the Pennsylvania differed from the Arizona in a large number of details, mainly around the bridge area. About everything in the superstructure needs to be altered in some way. Nothing too drastic, but much more work than anticipated. Fortunately, the Revell kit is truly wonderful, particularly when one considers that it is 40 years old. I will certainely consider building it once more, as the Arizona, mid-30s version for a change. Another interesting venture would be a late-war Pennsylvania, if I could find 5"/38, 40mm bofors and the like at that odd scale. I have started to apply PE details, beginning with the funnel grille and the two catapults (which are true gems). I am now about to model the new armored conning tower, using Milliput. I will then scratchbuild the two cranes. The tripod masts are a bit warped and will need straightening before they can be used. I have used the profile found in the Myron J. Smith's book, scanned and enlarged by the appropriate ratio to have 1/429 drawings of the ship as she was in 1935. Updating her to Feb. 1942 is then a matter of comparing that with photographs. I wish I had a good set of plans... Soon I'll reach the point where I'll have to strt spraying some paint on the model. Here I could use some help from those of you experienced in US Navy matters. I need to apply Ms21 to the kit. That means Navy Blue vertical, Deck Blue horizontal, right? But how litteral is that to be taken? Things like turret tops etc? Also what about the bridge platforms? Deck Blue for them too? Thanks for the help so far. Keep it coming, and I'll keep you informed (if you can stand my rambling, that is). Jean-Paul Binot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "F J Hueso" Subject: About Spanish Civil War Naval Ops Regarding Brian Selzler's question about Spanish Civil War Naval Ops, yes, it is a poorly covered area IMHO, indeed,Historians and Navy professionals, as late Adm. Carrero Blanco in his "Espaņa y el Mar" 1966 (3 vols, more than 1500 pages), only dedicates 16 pages to Civil War coverage,and because his political attitudes (and possition by then) a mere 4 pages about Naval operations "per se". Effectivelly the Italians were more vigorous allies than the Germans, as they not only contributed with arms, planes and ships, but also sent troops (Legion Condor was only an Force manning and servicing their planes), and his ships took place more activelly in Naval operations: Barletta was bombed by Republican aircraft while intercepting merchantmen, the submarine Torricelli torpedoed at Cartaqgena the Cruiser Miguel De Cervantes (Dec 1936)... Overall, the Naval side of the foreign aid was minimal: Italy: 2 submarines: Archimede and Torricelli 4 old destroyers: Aquila, Falco, A. Poerio y G. Pepe. 4 MAS: 100, 223, 435,436. Germany: 5 Schnellboote (S1-S5) URSS: 4 (maybe up to 12) G-5 type MTBs. The vast majority of the references I know are in Spanish, and many are memories from veterans of each faction Adm Cervera's "Memorias de Guerra", Benavides' "La Escuadra la mandan los Cabos"... or they treat partial aspects, such the events at the outbreak, or merchant shipping during the war. A curious one, though, is VAdm Peter Gretton's "El Factor Olvidado", about the Royal Navy ops during the war. Sorry, I haven't the book with me, so I can't quote the English title.I don't remember about French or British attacks against Italian subs but if someone is interested I can investigate: I can obtain it at the weekend. Also If you wish to know something more let me know. Also take a look at http://web.forodigital.es/uphm/mgl/buques/buques.htm - It has an English version. Regards from Madrid Javier -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: On AI San Fransisco, Revell Enterprise, and Seaplane Tenders On AI San Fransisco, Revell Enterprise, and Seaplane Tenders Does anyone know of any of the AI 1/350 San Fransisco (1944 fit) kits still available. I believe there were only 100 made, but I think I'd like to find one. Has anybody made a PE set for the 1/480 Revell Enterprise/Yorktown/Hornet kit? I know of sets for the Midway/Essex/Forrestal kits, but they're in a smaller scale and more modern. Finally, has anyone besides Revell done a big seaplane tender? Their Pine Island/Norton Sound kit has always intrigued me, but the hull is essentially beyond hope. The other things I think I could deal with, but that hull. . . . Steve Allen BTW, for those who have followed the recent thread on Mikasa but haven't looked at the new IM, there is a Mikasa kit review this time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Mystery Carrier Hi Shane The url is http://www.USS-SALEM.org/ Nice website. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Derek and his California BB Derek, Trust me, (feel free to chime in here guys) a BB for your first resin kit is not the best idea...you're smart in holding off. If I may, here a few recommendations to get your feet wet... ISW has a PC-461 Class Subchaser, geared to the first timer. Their APD-20 USS Roper is another good choice. They also have some tugs, and PT boat. Tom's Modelworks has a nice offering of the HMS Campbeltown. I know the Campbeltown and Roper are in the 65.00 range, the PC-461 is only $25.00, as are the tugs and the PT boat. Mike Ashey's book on building warship models is a good grab, it should still be available from local shops via Kalmbach. Best, Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: H M S Emerald In 1939, the cruiser Emerald was painted in a camouflage style, described as "surreal". Later in the same year the sceme was altered and described as "even more surreal". Does anyone have any visual data for this period? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: [Cosmo] Spinal Tap to Yamato... easy! (fwd) I'm forwarding this message from someone on another (Space Battleship Yamato) mailing list I'm on in hopes some of you might have a suggestion on how to solve the problem he's discussing. *Forwarded - Written by andrew@optomeyes.com.au on 02-Nov-99* How do you keen collectors transport models, figures and other collectables when you don't have the original boxes? I have a Yamato kit I built years ago (not very well mind you) and it has survived multiple attacks from my cat, but with all the little shock cannons and lasers and fins, etc, it is really difficult to pack and transport in a box. I had to get one of my mates to carry it in the car for me. Looked great, everyone else lugging televisions and bookshelves, and he has this little plastic spaceship! Priorities, I told them... Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Russian Armored Fleet Hi Shane; Craig Martelle publishes a wargame magazine, currently from the US Embassy in Moscow. he gets some good books, this is the first naval one. I have told him to contact you about putting them for sale on the list. Book looks very interesting. later Chuck Duggie From: "Craig Martelle" Subject: Re: Russian Armored Fleet Chuck: I can get lots of copies of this one. I will check to see if the ship colors are in there. Here's my address, and it's not the snow that's a problem, it is the incredible frigidity. It got up to 35 degrees yesterday with no wind and I thought it was quite balmy! Craig Martelle Major USMC American Embassy Moscow PSC-77, DTRO-M APO AE 09721 The Gauntlet U.S. http://www.garrison-clubs.org/gauntlet Please send your address and I'll get one in the mail on Friday (next mail day here at the Embassy). If I sell more than one or two copies, I will do a partial translation and I can always do a little research (like ship colors at Port Arthur), no problem. Craig >> From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: Russian Armored Fleet >> I've come across a pretty good picture book of the Russian Armored Fleet It looks like the earliest ships therein are from the mid 1800's and it goes through the big warships of WWII. It is a hardcover with sleeve, about 180 pages with half-page b/w pictures of the ships and additional line drawings of about half of them. It is all in Russian. Are you able to read some Russian? If not, I can do a partial translation some time down the road (next few months). At a vicious $20 (postpaid), are you interested? << Oh Craig; That`s the kind of thing I am looking for. Can you get multiple copies?? If so I would suggest you post it to the Ship Modellers Mailing list. SMML is postable at shipmodels@tac.com.au, add a note to Shane the listmaster that I referred you. First copy is mine, though. What`s your address in the land of the big snow? Chuck PS Can`t read Russian. Just English and some Spanish. Anything in text on ship colors? Specifically 1st Pacific Squadron. This is ships assigned at Port Arthur and Vladivostok in 1904-05. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: German pre-Dreadnought colors Sorry for my late answering. But first we had a holyday here on 1st November. So I had the opportunity to do nothing but model-building all over an extended weekend ... and I did (and didn't look into my computer which is standing in my office). Secondly I had to look a little around in my books. But now to the problem: I am not sure that German warships were painted "overall gray" around the turn of the century. Painting instructions as quoted by Erich Groener (the later author of "Die deutschen Kriegsschiffe 1815-1945) in an article from 1933 called for the following schemes: 1890 Ships on home stations: Hull - black, upperworks - yellow. Ships abroad: Hull - white, upperworks - yellow. 1895 Ships on home stations: Overall bluegray. Ships abroad: Hull - white, upperworks - bluegray. Torpedo boats: Overall dark gray. 1896 Ships on home stations: Hull - gray, upperworks - light gray. Ships abroad: Hull - white, upperworks - gray. 1898 Ships on home stations: As before. Ships abroad: Hull - white, upperworks - yellow. Torpedo boats: Overall black. 1910 Ships on home stations: As before. Ships abroad: Hull - gray, upperworks - light gray. 1916 Torpedo boats: Overall dark gray. As far as I could see, only the specific schemes for foreign stations (white/yellow, white/bluegray, white/gray) are confirmed by contemporary paintings. I could find almost no painting of the gray/light gray scheme (but a post card with a bluegray/light bluegray pattern and a painting by Willy Stoewer with similar tones). On the other hand there are lots of samples with overall gray or light gray ships. In these cases the grays are all neutral tones, mostly very light or whitish gray. What is puzzling is that there are even no paintings of German Dreadnoughts showing the gray hull/light gray upperworks scheme. Most photos show either a very light overall gray (which, as John Snyder pointed out, could also be a blueish gray) or a slightly darker hull. If they show darker upperworks, this is the way yellow appears on an b/w film. I also found a few photos of cruisers with a very light hull and only slightly darker upperworks, and I guess that this is the 1895 foreign station scheme as it apperas on a b/w photo. For the time being, I would not dare to give any specific suggestion. But mixing one or two parts Humbrol 64 with one part white would give a good match for the overall gray paint shown in many pictures, and Humbrol 128 would come very close to the bluegray color as shown in paintings of the 1895 foreign station scheme. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: THENRYS@aol.com Subject: Finds while traveling If my memory is incorrect, I apologize in advance, but it seemed that some list members were searching for either the Jim Shirley Oriskany or the Corsair Armada (did I get the mfr right?) USS Ranger. While traveling on business to the Denver area, I stopped in at Colpar Hobbies and they have both, in addition to a great selection of detail parts - GMM, Tom's, etc... They also keep a good selection of resin kits in stock. Definitely worth a visit if you're in the area. PS - They are on the internet as well at http://www.colparhobbies.com, I think. Todd Henry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: THENRYS@aol.com Subject: Tom's 1/350 Arizona Well, I finally went and done it! My Arizona (1941 config) arrived a couple of weeks ago - of course in the middle of trying to move into a new house. WOW! This is now a single piece full hull casting with NO warping and it will require a minimum (IMHO) of clean up work. Resin and white metal parts are beautiful. Only flaw detected so far were some partially lost walls on some of the gun tubs and some lost material on on the fo'csle protrusions where the main boat crane masts are mounted. None are a big deal. Is there any interest in an in-box review similar to those on Warship. No promises on when I can get it ready as I'm moving into the aforementioned house AND trying to get it ready for the impending arrival of a new Henry (release date ~late Jan '00). Todd Henry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Webmaster PFH" Subject: "Getting Back To Business" - New Kit and Book Releases From Pacific Front Hobbies We are pleased to announce that we are back in business again in our new home and facilities in Roseburg, Oregon. Our new phone number is (541) 464-8579, and the new fax is (541) 957-5477. The new address is P.O. Box 2098, Roseburg OR 97470. We should have email capability again in about 5 days -- we apologize for the long delay in not having this in service. Our address will be the same: shipguy@pacificfront.com Our newly revised website should be up now, and by the late part of November, will feature many new improvements, such as online catalog and bi-monthly update. The website will be regularly updated, and will have order forms you can download. The big news in kits is Samek Models' brand-new 1/700 Bismark, an excellent resin kit with photoetch, at a special pre-introductory price of $69.00. These should be here in 2-4 weeks, along with the WWII German coastal monitor Bechelaren (ex-president Masaryk) at $12.50, including photoetch. Also we have the new Hasegawa 1/700 Shoho at $18.00 -- an exclusive special for SMML Subscribers. Here's what's new in Books: 1. Delta / Groundpower (from Japan) Pictorial "U.S. Navy Submarines of World War II" -- Part I, and Part II, Excellent pictorials, $35.00 each. 2. Model-Art (Japan) "Drawings of Imperial Japanese Navy Vessels, Part III -- Aircraft Carriers", featuring loads of 1/700 scale drawings -- $21.00. I have the Following 1/1250 scale Neptun models -- These are pre-owned, Guaranteed to be in excellent-to-mint condition, with original boxes. (We have the largest supply of Navis-Neptun models, and many other fine brands of 1/1250 models in the United States and offer 100% money-back satisfaction on ALL models, new or pre-owned). 1. Neptun Iowa 1944 -- $69.00 2. Neptun Salt Lake City -- $40.00 3. Neptun San Francisco -- $38.00 4. Neptun Omaha -- $30.00 5. Neptun Oakland -- $30.00 I also have a Delfin modern Dutch DDG Tromp at $25.00, and an Argonaut Alaska at $45.00. Thanks for your patience and support! Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: On the Revell Cutaway SSBN This goes on eBay soon if no one from this list wants it: I have Revell Cutaway SSBN kit from about 1975. Although it is unbuilt, some parts have come off the trees, and there has been a part or two assaulted with the paintbrush. I believe that all the parts are present. The instructions, decals, and other paperwork ("sweepstakes" entry, for example) are present and intact, though I doubt that the decals are usable. The box is not in bad, but it has some remnants of stickers on it, and it was at onw time taped shut with clear shipping tape. If you are interested, let me know by private e-mail. Steve Allen mailto:spallen@rolemail.ccis.edu mailto:spallen@wavecomputers.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume