Subject: SMML10/11/99VOL725 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 00:53:31 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Last night's SMML & assorted items 2: Kidd Class 3: Re: Informal gathering of SMMLies 4: Western Ship Model Convention!! 5: John Snyder's gathering. 6: Re: Injection vs Resin 7: ORP Orzel Polish Submarine 8: Re: Gleaves-Class Destroyers 9: International Naval Review 2000 10: Russian and Soviet Models 11: Modern haze grey 12: Re: Resin vs. Plastic - yet again! 13: Re: Benson/Gleaves cl. destroyers 14: Pine Island, and pics 15: Resin VS Plastic 16: thank you for help and support 17: Philosophy and toleration 18: Re: Plastic Vs resin 19: Re: Several replies for SMML724 20: Re: Johnson Future wax 21: Saratoga 22: Saratoga CV-3 Dazzle Camo 23: Re: KGV Book, GMM Yorktown class brass, Philosophy 24: Saratoga Camo Scheme 25: Pine Island Photos 26: Geese and Crows -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Interesting item on eBay web site item#196286694: WHITE (trudgian) Battleship Yamato Lithograph 2: SMML Planning Meeting -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Shane SubjecT: Last night's SMML & assorted items Hi gang, It appears that for some reason, a largish amount of Subscribers didn't get VOL724. If you didn't get it, send me a note & I'll send out a batch lot later on in the day(saves me sending out a lot of seperate ones). Also, we are fast approaching the second birthday of SMML(15/11/99), any ideas on how to celebrate it ;-). I'm also still looking for someone who has copies of SMMLVOLs 055-094. If you have a copy of these issues, could you please contact me, so I can get them up on the website for other subscribers to enjoy in the next update(due soon). Now, to a very sensitive subject: The Warships Website & it's next update. I've had a few queries about the next update. Now, in case you might be wondering that I have some knowledge of when it's going to be next updated, I'm sorry to say I don't. I haven't heard from Rob for a while. I can only assume he's fairly busy with his family & work at the moment & hasn't had time to update the site yet. I for one, look forward to the next update. In the meantime, there's still a lot on the site to look at & enjoy. I also wish to make it absolutly clear, that regardless of what appears on the Warships Site & used to appear at the bottom of SMML, I have nothing to do with the running and/or content of Warships. Also, Warships has nothing to do with the running of SMML. We are two seperate entities. SMML is completly independent of any modelling website, with the exception of course, of the SMML website. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Kidd Class There used to be a 1/350 coversion set for the Spruance to turn it into a KIDD Class is that still around?? Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: Informal gathering of SMMLies >> Let's see: we can have a "herd" of animals, a "flock" of birds, a "school" of fish, a "pod" of whales, a "murder" of crows, a "convocation" of owls...but what do we call a gathering of SMMLies? A "fleet?" A "Task Force?" A "convoy?" (No, not a "nose"...don't go there....) John (with too much time on his hands today) Snyder Hi John, How about a "scent" of SMMLies, "yellowturret" of SMMLies, or from the Mistress - a "lunacy" of SMMLies ;->> Shane PS: Lorna says it's a "parliament" of owls. << If you get a significant number of this crowd together, it will probably end up being a "chain gang" of SMMLies. :-) Mike Settle I am not agent #1908 of the non-existent Lumber Cartel (tinlc)tm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Henry Blecha Subject: Western Ship Model Convention!! Just a bit of Trivia!! The Ship Modelers Association is sponsering the Western Ship Model Convention & Exhibit from 31 March - 2 April 2000. It is being held aboard the Queen Mary in Long Beach CA. Information on the Convention is available from their website at: http://www.ship-modelers-assn.org/memmain.htm Their membership information says that the Association is open to anyone interested in ships, ship modeling or anything nautical. They are located in the Los Angeles area. Other than the info I have provided and taking a look at their website I don't know much else about this organization. I originally received the info from the DLC of IPMS/USA. He is carrying it as a non-IPMS function on the event list. Any interest take a look at their website. v/r HBlecha -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "James owen" Subject: John Snyder's gathering. How about a 'flotilla' or even a 'raft' (pronounced 'waft') of SMMLies? JSO. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: John_impenna@hyperion.com Subject: Re: Injection vs Resin I read with interest Jerry Fontaine's response to this discussion. It seems his approach may be one for all of us to consider. Perhaps if the Kit manufacturer's (Revell-Monogram, Tamiya, DML, etc...) started listening to the modelers (I have never been surveyed as to what I would like to see, either)they would find out just how many of us there are or more likely, how much we will purchase. This is not to say that I don't understand the economics of it. I, as a former accountant, am well aware of the bottom line in running a business, but the big producers obviously haven't gotten the signal either. As long as we buy these long since paid for kits as they are, the companies will receive the same message; this is all that sells. It has gotten to the point where we will save our pennies for that $80.00 1/700 USS Maryland-1941 outfit rather than spend $20 for, say, Revell's USS North Carolina or another Missouri or Bismarck etc...Thank Heaven for the Resin manufacturers who may have saved this hobby from falling apart by the variety of subjects they offer. How many of us out there WOULDN'T buy 3 or 4 kits of say a Tamiya 1/350th USS South Dakota WITH PARTS TO MAKE ALL OF THE SHIPS IN THE CLASS!!!!! Why Revell or Tamiya never got this simple message is beyond me. How many Revell Arizonas would you buy if it had parts to do the Pennsylvania as well in both her 1941 and 1944 outfit. Maybe Cage masts and casement guns to model them both at commissioning? My purchase would BE AT LEAST 5, COUNT 'EM, 5 KITS!!! The newer battlewagons are even easier to include spares for the parts specific to each ship in the class. The molds have already been invested in, so do the additional parts that will make them hits instead of misses. The above can certainly apply to a 1/350th Essex class carrier. I know I would buy at least a half-a-dozen of these(Assuming I still have wall space left!!!!). They could easily do 2; both long and short bow Essex's. I would be willing to bet the ships I mentioned above would be hits and they would easily pay for themselves. They could then justify investing in less well known ships such as the Langley(CV-1), Ranger(CV-4), Wasp(CV-7) etc....How many of us wouldn't buy all 3 of those regardless of the scale!!!!! Forums such as these offer us the chance to discuss these topics and get a message across. You can bet the model companies are probably reading this as well. Let them know, maybe we stop buying what they are offering now and take a little different approach such as Jerry's instead of just accepting the situation. We also need to reward them with our business when they do. My own example of that is the Heller kits. They are beautiful and the only ones in this scale. I have bought just about every one of their WW2 subjects, as this is my area of interest. Would Revell rather see someone pay $200 on EBAY to a collector for the CSS Alabama or USS Kearsarge (probably 2 of the most beautiful, plastic ship kits ever made) or sell a few hundred or maybe a thousand to their network of distributors. Come On GUYS AND GALS in Morton Grove, WAKE UP!!!! They will re-issue the same 30+ year old kits of the USS BUCHANAN--AARON WARD--CAMBLETOWN, but not these. Go figure. I for one have STOPPED buying their kits. I pretty much have them all(either built or unbuilt)by now anyway. I would rather put my discretionary "hobby dollars"(I can hear the wife screaming now about my "disease") away until I can buy one of the satisfying Resin releases. It is still a very inexpensive form of entertainment. Also, it is DISCRETIONARY income. I will spend it where I receive the most enjoyment. Hey Revell or Tamiya, I can spend my $250 on a resin 1/350th USS California or spend it on FOUR of, say your USS California w/parts to make her and sister USS Tennessee as they appeared in 1941 and 1944 configurations. Wider beams and all!!! Given the present situation, I can't wait until I can afford the Resin 1/350th California; it is a masterpiece. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "FCR" Subject: ORP Orzel Polish Submarine Hello to all I have recently acquired the polish submarine ORP Orzel of WWII, from INNEX models. The quality of the model is not very good and many parts needed to be scratched. One of them is the twin 40 mm AA gun in the tower. Unfortunately all the data that I have arranged for the submarine guns refers only to be a twin 40 mm gun and nothing else. Well, in the model it seems to be something like one twin Bofors 40 mm gun, but in the polish navy??? Can anyone confirm me that it is really a Bofors. Thanks in advance. Filipe Ramires -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Gleaves-Class Destroyers There is an excellent site located at: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Barracks/1041/links.html Mike L Alexandria, VA USA PS - I fired my message on "Japanese Kits" last night before I got finished. My point was that manufacturers tend to make kits that will appeal to domestic consumption, e.g., the British firm of Airfix produced mostly kits of RN vessels. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: International Naval Review 2000 As if to prove that all ideas that originate in the US Congress are not uniformly bad (!), comes word of the International Naval Review 2000, which will be held in conjunction with a parade of tall ships in New York Harbor between 2 - 9 July 2000. Over 40 naval vessels from around the world are expected to participate in the INR. The LANTFLT contribution tentatively has JFK (CV 67), Mount Whitney (LCC 20), Nassau (LHA 4), plus a CG, two DD/DDG, two FFG, two SSN, and a couple of USCG cutters attending. The total so far stands at 22 naval ships from 19 other countries and some 20 more countries have yet to commit but were among the 61 that were invited. 22 countries will also send 23 military or government-owned tall ships. The Blue Angels are supposed to put on a show as well. Will try to get hold of some PR material if anybody is interested in learning more. There should be a link soon at: http://www.atlanticfleet.navy.mil Mike L ALexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Russian and Soviet Models The Sovietski Collection (http://www.sovietski.com) has a catalog that includes several very expensive finished ship models, including several nuclear subs, the cruiser AURORA, and the Czarist yachts STANDART and POLAR STAR. The catalog has some nice color photos of these models from various angles. The AURORA, by the way, sells for a mere US$ 4950 for a 1:150 version, and they're giving away a 1:300 version for only $ 2750. Mike L Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Robert OConnor Subject: Modern haze grey Fellow SMMLies I'm sure that this question has been asked and answered a hundred times, but is there any commercial hobby paint that replicates modern USN haze grey/gray (U PICK spelling)? I have always used neutral grey, but I know it is too dark with not enough blue. As an alternative, does anyone have a formula for mixing the shade?? Any help appreciated. Also on Roll Models thread-I have dealt with them occasionally over the past few yrs, since they bought out the former owners. No complaints on my part, other than a backorder or two, which I have encountered from almost every mail order op I have ever dealt with. My two cents, Bob O'Connor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Al Superczynski Subject: Re: Resin vs. Plastic - yet again! On Tue, 09 Nov 1999 23:42:20 +1100, Shane wrote: >>.....but they'd all be American ships << Hey, that would suit me just fine! *All* my military/naval stuff is US................. ;-p Al Al, Why limit yourself, afterall, they're only US ships ;->> Shane - who knows full well Al's tastes in modelling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Timothy Dike Subject: Re: Benson/Gleaves cl. destroyers >> To the person interested in the Benson/Gleaves cl. destroyers- I will be publishing a book on this type of USN destroyer this next summer. The Gleaves type was a round funneled version of the flat side funneled Bensons, designed by Gibbs & Cox. << Ok Steve, When will you have a 1/700 kit available, I've looked high and low for Classic Warships 1/700 DD's and there aren't any available. mailto:Cadman@kc.net http://www.kc.net/~cadman/ "A still sea never wrought a skillful sailor" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Timothy Dike Subject: Pine Island, and pics >> Also, I know FD has a set of plans for a sister (though later in date), but I only know of one or two pics in Janes (and therefore not very helpful). Does anybody know of any other sources for AV pics? << Stefan Terzibaschitsch's book Escort Carriers and AV support ships of the US Navy has 3 pics of the Pine Island, as well as 10 or so pics of her sisters. This is a great book if you can find a copy get one. mailto:Cadman@kc.net http://www.kc.net/~cadman/ "A still sea never wrought a skillful sailor" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Timothy Dike Subject: Resin VS Plastic About 10-15 years ago I got bored with ship modeling due to lack of subjects in 1/700 and put away my kits. If resin kits had been around then I'd have never stopped building. Now there are almost more subjects than I can build. I will gladly support the small resin kit manufacturers that produce the ships I want to build. sure they are more expensive but when was the last time you priced a Pit Road Cleveland? I paid only slightly more for my resin cruisers. mailto:Cadman@kc.net http://www.kc.net/~cadman/ "A still sea never wrought a skillful sailor" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Susan Grouell" Subject: thank you for help and support Sirs, Mr.. Steve Wiper and Mr.. Loren Perry have both responded to my requests for help and information. Both treated me fair and kind. one with help on a kit I purchased about 8 years ago! and treated me as though it was only yesterday....the other with information on an on going project......I have never had any bad experience with any one connected with the love of ship building....luck?.....I don't think so. I think its because we all share the love of ships....whether it is opening your first kit or remembering your first kit......and that goes for all the positive help I find on smml. thanks again......and keep smmling Sincerely, Gary Grouell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Mike.Dunn@dresdner-bank.com Subject: Philosophy and toleration Hi all, Sorry for the long mail - I guess Michael's bit on our philosophy struck a chord, and made me think a bit. Michael Satin wrote : >> I'm looking forward to joining the Ship Building fraternity very soon, but some of the things I've read here can be a bit frightening. Could it be that some of the attitudes I've detected could be contributing to the lack of recruits? I know ship building can be a whole new level of modeling, but it seems to me that some of the contributors I've read here really look down on the aircraft and armor modelers. << Attitudes? In SMML? Never ;-) I guess that we builders of models having hundreds of tiny parts do tend to look down on those who just snap-fix, or have under 50 parts for the whole kit (hell, one of my kits has that many just for one part of the superstructure, and I would dare say many other SMMLies have the same!). You are right; we shouldn't. It seems partially to come from having to have so much more patience to assemble something so tiny - and let's face it, even a 1/350 ship is tiny compared to a 1/48 tank or aircraft, as far as the size of the detailing is concerned. I personally build ships because my wife likes them (my preferred area is SF & S-Fact - but if I do some ships, I get more of my kits.....sneaky, eh?). I don't touch armour, or cars or bikes, because they bore me silly. Most aircraft do the same - there are exceptions, but these seem to be naval-related, for some strange reason... :-) Do I have an attitude regarding those kits I don't bother with? I guess I would have to say "Yes" to that. But I try NOT to put this across; maybe I fail in this attempt, but at least I do try. And don't forget - the opposite is true. I know of a number of modellers who wouldn't touch anything BUT armour, or cars, or bikes. Do I think they are anally-retentive for getting 5 Panzer tanks? Well, yes. But they think the same about me, when I have a number of models of the same class - different vessels with changes in their detailing, but they use the same argument back to me about their tanks . >> Certainly some of the ship models I've seen are truly awesome, but everyone starts somewhere and making condescending comments about people who could enhance the shipbuilding community isn't going to get them into it. << Agreed; but if you don't have a yen for a style of modelling, no amount of encouragement will get you into it either. At the end of the day, we should encourage new modellers to build what they like, REGARDLESS of what our personal opinion of their decision is. We all use the same techniques; the same tools; the same materials. We all have a lot to offer each other. But it has to be recognised that there will always be a section in ANY of the modelling communities that will condescend those not in their area of specialisation. It's up to the REST of us to be tolerant of them (because complaining to them will just entrench them further), and to correct (if possible) the bad impressions given to the new modeller. As to Iowa - don't do that! Croatia is the worst place we send people, Iowa is just too bad! Mike - now running from all those Iowa modellers }-))))) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Re: Plastic Vs resin >> To respond to Kelvin's post, a bit of background to the sudden surging of subjects from Dragon (and Revell Germany of course) in the past couple of years << No disrespect intended Caroline. I have deep admiration in what you are doing as detailed in your last post. I am not knowledgeable about ship kits, the few ships I have built are scratch built working models. I build a large number of armor subjects and 1/35 military figures and the output from DML/Dragon has been so prolific that I can't keep up anymore. That output was what I was refering to. In around ten years DML/Dragon came from nowhere to someone that other kit manufacturers measure themselves against. I have to admit to a bit of ethnic pride that China is capable of original designs and in producing high quality kits - armor and aircraft for sure. Ships hopefully in due course. The early offerings from DML/Dragon for their aircraft/armor kits were reboxed kits from companies that had closed shop or discontinued their product line. From your description of their ship kit offerings it looks like the same game plan. A cheap way to test the market with reissues then go in really big if that pans out. That multi-article special feature on the Toy Industry published in The Economist was in an issue within the last ten months. Do look it up. It has the most comprehensive and detailed survey of the industry I have come across. China is only one major component in that food chain. Blockbuster toys are designed in the US then farmed out to these Chinese factories which are as modern and as well equipped with the latest technology as any high tech industry - CAD, CNC, the works and of course those ex-ivory carvers. If I recall from that article, cheap labor costs is not a significant factor although of course overall low production costs count. High quality, manufacturing technology, speed, confidentiality, delivery times, etc. were more decisive. As in everything else nowadays its a whole new game and I can only watch in awe. Kelvin Mok (klmok@home.com) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: Several replies for SMML724 Yohan Fernando writes: >> Looking for a port side photo or design sheet for SARATOGA dazzle.. << Both photos and the design sheets are found in Camouflage 2 - Fleet Carriers, published by the Floating drydock. One of the port side photos was also published in The Lexington Class Carriers by Robert C. Stern. If you cannot access either of these, get in touch with me off line and I can scan the material for you. Victor Baca writes; >> There are many capable modelers out there who have the ability to scratchbuild given good research material and a little ingenuity. Excellent books abound and I highly suggest all ship modelers acquire a copy of the book "Scale Model Warships" published by Mayflower books back in 1978 (ISBN 0 8317 7702 8) and edited by John Bowen. It still ranks up there as one of the best "courses" in scratchbuilding between 2 covers. << In the next Plastic Ship Modeler (which will be out in about a week - now waiting for delivery from the printers) there will be an advertisment for this particular book - for sale at less than $20.00 - and he has several copies. If you don't have it - here is a great opportunity to add this wonderful book to your collection. Get it fast before some dealer snaps them up and jacks up the price!!!! Paint mixes - John Snyder wrote: >> my partner Randy suggests using the Polly-S Navy Blue 5-N for Deck Blue 20-B. Randy published suggested mixes for the USN purple-blues, mostly using Humbrol, in a back issue of PSM, and Rusty White also published Randy's list in a back issue of the IPMS Journal. I suspect if you wanted to subscribe to PSM (and if you haven't, why not?), Dan Jones might just have copies of the requisite issue. (Dan?) << All issues of Plastic Ship Modeler are still available in either original editions (from Vol 4-1 onward), or reprints (Vols 1-3 / first 12 issues). Several of these contain articles and paint mixes (by Randy and others) for camouflage colors for various countries navies, mainly using Humbrol mixes. (Complete back issue list is available with contents - or you can access this information on the Warship website). Unfortunately, some of the recommended colors cited in these articles are no longer being manufactured by Humbrol, always a problem when using commercial paint mix formulas. I second the comments that have appeared recently in this forum - that you simply MUST get these paint ships! This series is the first and only time that such research has been made available for modelers and some of the chips show that widely accepted ideas about some of the camouflage colors were WRONG - thus some of the mixes were also WRONG! There is no substitute for primary research! John Rule writes: >> YES!!!!!! you should buy these chips as you would be supporting a worthy cause and would help encourage S & S to continue with their worthwhile venture. The cost is not very much and is infinitely better value than picking up some poor quality rehash of a 1960's vintage kit. << I totally agree and in my opinion these sets are actually quite CHEAP, considering the amount of hand work involved in preparing them. It also seems unlikely that they will be reproduced again - once gone - they are GONE!! Get them while you can! John Burch wrote: >> Jim Bean recently had a 3 part series on building the Jim Shirley Oriskany in PLastic Ship Modeler.... << Actually the articles are by RAY Bean. This series was in PSM Numbers 18-19-and 20, (available as back issues at $5.00 each postpaid in the USA - $6.00 each overseas) and include photos of his model in various stages, and of some of the ships in the class. Ray also included drawings showing the differences in various ships in the class in the rebuilt 27 Charlie configurations. Ray also did an earlier article on building one of these by converting the straight deck Hasegawa kit - done long before there was a kit from Jim Shirley. It is not easy, but Ray has proven it can be done. And last, for the Umpteenth time... Jim Shirley is NOT out of business as one particular person keeps posting... but he IS out of the resin ship business, which I guess as far as the subscribers to this list are concerned, amounts to the same thing. However, the talented people that were largely responsible for the best of the Jim Shirley kits are the same folks that are now marketing a new line of resin kits under the JAG Collective label. Their new 1/700 FRAM Gearing is not a remold of the old JSP kit. It is a all new pattern and is better in every way. I would expect that JAG will probably be releasing a new angle deck ESSEX in the near future! Reviews of all the new JAG Collective kits will be found in Plastic Ship Modeler number 21 coming out next week. Daniel Jones Plastic Ship Modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From Alan Roots Subject: Saratoga Hi Yohan Have you got the article in the October 98 issue of Finescale Modeller? Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: james.kloek@kodak.com Subject: Saratoga CV-3 Dazzle Camo Floating Drydock's book Camouflage 2 has diagrams of both sides of the Sara's dazzle scheme. Actually the whole book is devoted to Fleet carriers (CVs and CVLs) and all the schemes they carried. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: KGV Book, GMM Yorktown class brass, Philosophy Hi Michael, What a lot of headers! Yes, indeed, the KGV book is here!! Not a cheap prospect though at 21.50 Pounds (around $34.00). Still, considerably cheaper than some of the pre-owned prices out there. Re ICM, well, I have some info fresh out from the Ukraine. It seems that the production schedule has fallen back once again, with the 1/350 Konig now scheduled for release at the Nuremburg Toy Fair. The Grosser Kurfurst will follow a few months later. The 1/350 HMS Hood, it seems, is now likely to be released in 2001. Sensible choice re building a Tamiya battleship with the bolt-ons. Many modellers on SMML have built, or are building, a number of these, and there will always be folks out there to offer you advice. >> If we encourage these folks to try ships, rather than discourage them, they seem like very fertile ground for new buyers. This would contribute to our ability to get new kits released << Ah, join us!! Much of my work here, is of a "missionary" nature (no rude comments on that please!). This involves working pretty darned hard at model shows in particular, persuading, cajoling, and chatting up the fellas who previously have built aircraft, cars, tanks etc. and, after wheedling out their interests and abilities, matching them up to a suitable plastic or resin ship kit with a set of etched brass and some resin add-ons, depending on how far they want to go... Ooo, I love that feeling of "conquest!" Offering these folks sources for further research can, of course, be very important as well. As a result, many of our long-established customers are former tankies and airheads. I reckon that if every aircraft or tank modeller built maybe a ship every couple of years, that this would multiply the interest in ship modelling by maybe 5 or 10 fold... and that would have a knock-on effect for the production side of things. You are right, though, the aircraft builder often seems intimidated by ships, and we do seem to have a lower proportion of Junior members buying ships at model shows ... I think that ship modelling is something that the modeler will often gravitate towards when they've built everything with wings or tracks! >> Hi Michael, Iowa eh, could be worse - it could be New Zealand ;-)) Shane - who's now REALLY ducking for cover from the Kiwis. << Shane! You deserve a brow-beating from every Kiwi out there.. actually, this is the ONE country that I intend to see before I die! Cheers! Caroline Carter WHITE ENSIGN MODELS http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models Hi Caroline, You spoil all our fun, but can we comment on the "chatting up" & "conquests" part ;-))). Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "lcp9" Subject: Saratoga Camo Scheme Oct 1998 Fine Scale Modeler has both sides of Saratoga in it's dazzle scheme. I can scan & send it if you can't come up with a copy . David -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "lcp9" Subject: Pine Island Photos Real War Photos has several useful photos of Pine Island & her sisters, They're in the Auxiliaries catalog ($2.00). Their address is Real War Photos ; Box 728 ; Hammond Indiania 46325 There is no Email or Fax address I also highly reccomend getting their Naval Ships Catalog ($2.00). Nearly every ship in the WWII US Navy is in there. David -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Tom Eisenhour Subject: Geese and Crows Greetings to the "Flotilla", Rusty White wondered: >> First off, what the hell is a "murder" of Geese? How many? I never heard of that one. << It's a gaggle of geese, a murder of crows. Regards, Tom Eisenhour Austin, Texas: where it's too darn hot! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: njahof@erols.com Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#196286694: WHITE (trudgian) Battleship Yamato Lithograph Shane, I saw this print for sale at eBay, and since there are so many Yamato fans on SMML, you may or may not want to post it...Jeff H. Title of item: WHITE (trudgian) Battleship Yamato Lithograph Seller: brawnerfarm@flashcom.net Starts: 11/07/99, 19:34:48 PST Ends: 11/17/99, 19:34:48 PST Price: Starts at $35.00 To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=196286694 Item Description: "THE SINKING OF THE BATTLESHIP YAMATO" by John White. The Yamato was the most massive battleship ever built. The mighty Bismarck was 50,000 tons with a main armament of eight 15 inch guns. The Yamato was 72,000 tons with nine 18.1 inch guns. These were the largest guns on any warship in history. The painting shows the Yamato under attack by U.S. Navy Helldivers. In additions to artist John White, the print is signed by Commander Francis R. Ferry and Lieutenant (jg) Edward A. Sieber who flew the second and third Helldivers to hit the Yamato. It took over two hours and three separate attacks including bombs, torpedoes, and strafing runs to send the super battleship to a watery grave, taking almost 2,500 of the 2,778 man crew with it. The loss of the Yamato was a tremendous spiritual defeat to the Japanese, foreshadowing the coming end of the Imperial Japanese Military. John White’s brilliant recreation of the first strike on the Yamato won second place in the 1995 National Navy Aviation Art Contest held by the National Museum of Naval Aviation in Pennsicola, Florida. Extensive research was conducted for this painting, including interviews of several pilots participating in the battle ensure the accuracy of the depiction. This signed and numbered print sold in galleries for $125.00. This print is in mint, unframed condition with COA and measures 32" x 24". Buyer to pay $10 toward shipping, handling, and insurance. Will ship internationally for actual additional shipping costs. Note: This artwork is not signed or done by (nicolas trudgian). GOOD LUCK & THANKS FOR LOOKING!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: SMML Planning Meeting The planning meeting for the Y2K SMMLCON will be this Saturday, 13 Nov. at 10:00 aboard the USS Salem in the Fore River Shipyard, Quincy Massachusetts. Any list member wanting to participate is welcome. Please let me know by Friday night, 12 Nov. so I can have a list at the Quarterdeck for the admissions people. This will be the only chance for a meeting at the ship until late winter. The USS Salem will be heading for drydock between 29 Nov. and 13 Dec. The time in dock is scheduled to be eight to ten weeks. She is to have hull maintainace, new heads installed and a paint job. The ship will be unaccessable during this period. I hope to hear from a whole bunch of you guys. Don't be shy, this is gonna be fun. John Frohock USNSM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume