Subject: SMML14/11/99VOL729 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 00:26:52 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: San Francisco decks 2: Re: 1-700th Yamato 3: Re: Tennessee Artwork 4: Re: Soap Box 5: Re: Wooden Hull SC of WWII 6: Re: Mk 49 directors 7: Question for ship judges 8: Re: Resin Overpour 9: Re: H&R Products 10: Warship 1999/2000 11: Amatomy of a ship: IJN Y*m*to 12: Re: Contest/museum fees 13: Polish Bofors 14: Re: 1.1" mounts on USS Arizona 15: Dutch Nats 16: 1/450 Akagi in box review 17: Re: U.S.S. ARIZONA and Floating Drydock Plans 18: Y2K SMMLCON 19: Butler class kit? 20: More on Wahoo 21: Re: Wahoo's final patrol 22: Re: Philosophy 23: Re: 1.1" mounts on USS Arizona 24: Re: resin overpour -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: UPDATED WEM PAGES -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: San Francisco decks Hi Don I would suggest Humbrol pale stone mixed with white at a ratio of 1:3. This will give a slightly greyish/yellow cast to the deck which I think is what you're after. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: 1-700th Yamato The artwork in the book that you mention was drawn from a twentysix sheet set of plans that I obtained from Japan in 1973, and which I still have. I believe that the plans are reasonably accurate in that there were drawn up from the remaining official drawings. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Tennessee Artwork I know the story of this art. You really don't want to know. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Soap Box Never ever, climb off your soap box Mr Herrick! We all need your views. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: WVeigele@aol.com Subject: Re: Wooden Hull SC of WWII For information on SCs of WWII contact Ted Treadwell who is writing a book about them. His email is diodor@aol.com Good luck in your search. Bill Veigele -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Mk 49 directors I have heard that a resin kit company intends to produce a 1"=16' feet scale (1/192) of a Fletcher class destroyer. Could that company please confirm. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Question for ship judges What part does accuracy to the prototype play in judging? This is a serious question. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Resin Overpour >> I have heard some folks here complain about removing the resin overpour common to most resin kits. Some time ago I bought a hand held belt sander from Micro Mark with 60 belts. This little bugger makes resin dust out of overpour in the blink of an eye! I use this tool on every single model I build so I really depend on it. It's not cheap, (about $75.00 to $80.00 including the speed control) but I would buy another one in a minute. << I wasn't saying I didn't know how to remove overpour spouts efficiently, I was objecting to the need to. Who needs to sit and grind resin into dust in that quantity, when it could be avoided in the first place. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Vincent McCullough" Subject: Re: H&R Products Shaya, From the Nautical Research Guild's "sources" page: http://www.naut-res-guild.org/sources H-R Products P.O. Box 67 McHenry, IL 60050 Web Site link: http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~hracct/ Vince Mccullough NRG Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Douglas_J_Martin" Subject: Warship 1999/2000 Folks: Just received a 'renewal form' from Chrysalis Books, for my sub to 'Warship 1999/2000'. The book will be published in Dec 99, edited by Antony Preston. So 'Warship' lives....... Douglas (Scotland) PS: Has the Trivia Number 3 'answer' been posted yet, I'm waiting with anticipation...... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: John Sheridan Subject: Amatomy of a ship: IJN Y*m*to Pssst! If you are looking for this book, I saw one for sale about two weeks ago and in mint condition. But don't tell anyone I told you so! . John Sheridan What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 Last last place on earth I would look for the Lumber Cartel(tm) is http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Contest/museum fees $10? I've got the check ready right now! Ken, I personally don't think that a $10 fee that includes both the contest and access to the museum would keep folks away. Since I'm not an officer at the moment, I can't speak for IPMS Silver Wings (Sacramento), but you might want to contact Scott Bell as well for their participation. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys P.S. You could also think about arranging a reprise of Tom Harrison's/Bert McDowell's presentation, maybe have Scott do a demo on his SNJ products, perhaps some other workshops too? Give 'em more for their money. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Darek Lipinski Subject: Polish Bofors Hi All. The Polish navy of 1939 had several ships equipped with the 40mm Bofors AA guns. First of all, there were two destroyers of the GROM class each carrying two twin 40mm mounts. Than there was the large mine layer GRYF also equipped with two twin mounts. Two submarines of the ORZEL class each carrying one redesigned twin mount. I am not sure about two destroyers of the WICHER class though. I know that they were equipped with two single 40mm guns each, but since both ships had been build in France based on SIMOUN design those guns might had been of the french origin. It's unlikely though. Darek -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Jean-Paul Binot" Subject: Re: 1.1" mounts on USS Arizona >> I just received the Floating Drydock 1/192 scale plans for the Arizona as she appeared on 7 December. The plans show her fitted with four 1.1" AA mounts in tubs aft of the 'B' turret and fwd of the 'X'? turret. I thought I read somewhere that the gunshields had been fitted, but the guns themselves had not been installed prior to the attack. Is this true? Also, the plans show her fitted with radar. Not very clear, but did she mount an SC-1 or possibly SC-2 on that Sunday? I've never had reason to doubt any Floating Drydock product, but since I can't find many detailed pictures of her on the day of the attack (that is in one piece) I have to explore all 'rumors' and 'possibilities'. << As far as I know (and since I have accumulated some reference on the early WWII Pacific Fleet BBs recently...), the 1.1" guns had not yet reached Pearl Harbor in late 1941. Most BBs had started preparating for their installation, but none had been fitted by Dec. 7. Splinted shields were added to Arizona (and most BBs), including gun tubs in the locations you indicate (as in Pennsylvania and other BBs) for the 1.1". As for radars, most battleships had been preparing to receive at least an air search set. To that effect, a small circular platform was built atop the frontmast at the rear of the highest level. This was the case for Arizona and Maryland, as can be seen in pictures taken after the attack (Tennessee and California might have had such a platform as well, but it is hard to say.) AFAIK, only West Virginia and Pennsylvania had a CXAM-1 fitted before the war started. I have read somewhere that the reason why Vestal was moored alongside Arizona that Sunday was precisely to expedite some of that preparatory work... Jean-Paul Binot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Dutch Nats Hi Swarm, I just returned from the Dutch nationals. As my own project was not ready yet (and I entered a 'reserve' which was mercyfully not mentioned by the jury) I can try to be a little objective. Yes, they finally found ships' judges, so the infamous collective judging is a thing of the past. There were 4 ships classes (sailing ships, civilian motor ships, warships <1/400 and warships >1/400) with about 8 entries in each class. This is less then in 1998, and in the smaller warship scale this was very noticable. The winner of the 1/400 and bigger last year had not finished his project either but it was a close call anyway. I think more than half of that class could have won. The warships' classes finally went both to Rob van Basten with a nice Iron Duke (Airfix) and a very nice King George V (Tamiya). SMMLie Evert-Jan Foeth got 2nd place in the bigger scale with a Fletcher (Tamiya again). To my surprise there were some nice resin models (Regia Marina, Modelkrak and Samek) in the trade corner for some very reasonable prices. Now I only need 10 years to build them. Pieter Cornelissen Delft, The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Mike Connelley Subject: 1/450 Akagi in box review Howdy: I recently acquired a Hasegawa 1/450 Akagi from HLJ as it appears Hasegawa has re-released a number of thier 1/450 kits. Initial demand was high so it took a little while getting here. Anyway, to my point... As of this time I have no references on the Akagi. The kit scales out to be 259.5m overall and 249.23m waterline. The kit used to be motorized, and the box even says "static display model" to discourage you just incase you had an urge to dunk it in your bathtub. As such, the keel entension found on many IJN ships is way too thick as it was meant to take a little propeller shaft. The underwater hull bulges look over done to me as they appear to bulge out too much and are very round. The kit features overall nice and crisp recessed and raised detail...better than most ships I've seen. The second main part is the hull side frame which separates the hull from the deck. In places this part is up to 1/5" too wide for the deck and I can't even get it to stay in place even with some serious pushing and pulling. I'll either need to cut the keel and widen the hull or cut the side frame part in half and narrow it. Check your references as to which one to do. The deck itself fits well atop the side frame, but doesn't bend down towards the bow as much as the side frame does...it's not too bad and only a little glue will be needed to tack it down. The deck has a mix of raised and recessed detail. It has all raised planking detail but Hasegawa left this detail off where you're supposed to put the decals (more on them later). Do pull this off you'll have to trim the decals really close. The windscreens on the deck are molded right in, and overdone in my opinion. The deck also has holes in it for removable searchlight positions. I'm thinking of filling in these holes and the windscreen detail, sanding off all the raised planking detail and using Tom's Modelworks photoetch for the windscreens. In some areas the kit has nice little suprises, and in others it's not so good. The kit comes with canvas (I think) rolls that were places around the bridge area, and the ship's propellers look quite nice. On the other hand the AA guns (all of them) are too thick and overscale. The 25mm twin mounts are more like 1/350 scale and still the barrels are twice as far apart as their supposed to be....not to mention too thick. The deck support stuts look about right but some of the auxiliary bracing is too thick. The kit's airwing consists of 6 Zeros, 6 Vals and 10 Kates. The Kates come with separate landing gear (with little wheels too) and torpedoes. The Vals come with separate landing gear parts complete with spats. The Zeros have little drop tanks but for whateverreason Hasegawa decided to foresake them and leave them with the old stick landing gear. The decals are very nice and similar in quality to Hasegawa aircraft kits. They include the lines and dashes on the deck, the arrow like indicator for wind direction (two of them actually), lots of little hinomarus, the red and white strips for the aft edge of the deck, and a big 'ma' (I think that's the character...my Japanese is very bad) for the deck too. It doesn't have a big hinomaru for the deck like she had at Midway though. As far as I know this is the largest Akagi out there. It looks like it'll build to a nice representation of the ship out of the box and the nice detail will keep people for guessing there are some things that need fixing. The fixes range from the relatively simple (more accurate AA) to rather complex (possibly widening the hull and fixing the bulges). As I said in the beginning I have no references on her and I only have my memory of a 1/96 model of the Agaki at the USS Arizona Memorial museum (which is an awsome model if you're ever at Pearl). I say that if you like flat tops, especially Japanese ones as I am beginning to, then this is a good kit to have. Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Judy Graham" Subject: Re: U.S.S. ARIZONA and Floating Drydock Plans Hopefully, I've got this right, but to answer Dave Lueck's question on the Floating Drydock's plans of the ARIZONA, they show her as she was supposed to appear in early 1942, assuming she had survived the attack on Pearl Harbor. The PENNSYLVANIA was basically the same after her battle-damage repair from the attack, but with 20mm Oerlikons, and FC Radar, as well. I have 2 sets of plans from the Floating Drydock for the ARIZONA, one in 1/96th for my "big" project - an RC model, and one in 1/192nd and both sets show her fitted with SC Radar, and 4 x Gun Tubs with 1.1" MG's mounted. My references - Paul Stillwell's "BATTLESHIP ARIZONA - An Illustrated History", ISBN 0-87021-023-8, and "U.S.S. ARIZONA Ship's Data". Both state the the ship received the following in her last refit at The Puget Sound Naval Shipyard, Bremerton Wash. (just across the border from where I live), either in Jan. 1941, or June, 1941, depending on which one you feel is more reliable: 1. Maintop "birdbath" M.G. position for 4 x 1 .50 Cal Machine Guns 2. Gun Positions, including foundations,ballistic shields, ammunition hoists, ready-use lockers, and power supply, etc, for 4 x4 1.1" Quadruple Machine Guns, two forward on the "01" Deck, by B Turret, and two on the Quarter-deck, on either side of the Main-mast 3. Splinter-shields outboard of the 5" 25 Cal. A.A. Guns, on the "01" Deck Paul Stillwell's book, on P.221, shows both the ARIZONA, and NEVADA, tied up alongside each other, in the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard, in JAN, 1941, both still in Peace-time Standard Navy Grey (Light Grey - 1937?), and both with the above modifications, but no radar fitted. Photographs of ARIZONA's Fore-top after the attack clearly show that by DEC, 1941, she had also been "fitted for, but not equiped with" SC(?) Radar, as the mounting for the radar was there, but not the Antennea itself. The "Ship's Data" publication differs with Paul Stillwell's work in the dates that the above alterations and additions were carried out - it gives a date of JUNE, 1941. I can only assume that the Radar Platform fitted to the Fore-top was done after this work, and possibly at Pearl Harbour, by the Dockyard work force. The plans are accurate to the point that all the modifications were in place to receive the equipment. All that remained was to supply the 1.1" guns, and radar equipment, and mount them. But at the time of her loss, the ARIZONA did not have either Radar or 1.1" Quadruple M.G.'s (as near as I can tell!). Hope this helps. Chris Preston, Victoria, B.C. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: Y2K SMMLCON Fellow Listmembers, Today was a beautiful, sunny and warm fall day to welcome some fellow SMML listmembers aboard the USS Salem in Quincy, Massachusetts. As you are aware the purpose was the planning of the Y2K SMMLCON. Attending the first meeting, (and there will be others), were Fritz Koopman of Salem, Ma.; John Sheridan, East Bridgewater, Ma.; Larry Oullette, Quincy, Ma.; Harold Lincoln, Hingham, Ma.; and yours truly. Several who said they would attend couldn't make it but are very much encouraged to participate. The more that do the better the meet will be. We have high hopes for this to be a memorable event and discussed at length many of the suggestions proposed earlier on postings from all of you. We have come to a consensis of what we feel is a balance of the best of those suggestions. We are aware that we cannot please everyone completely. But we can try to satisfy a majority. So here is what we propose. It is felt the best time frame would be Friday, Saturday,and Sunday, May 5,6,7, 2000. This puts us far enough (we hope) from other major hobby events and family holidays and keeps us in the off season around here to hope and keep costs down. Any later in the year not only runs afoul of the summer hobby conventions but also this area is gonna be nuts during July for Op-Sail 2000 when the tall ships come in. I believe that New York has the same outlook, and hotel rooms are already scarce and very pricey. We hope that a number of well known list members from our suppliers or authors, will attend and prehaps share some of their knowledge by presenting a paper or two on a related topic or specific subject on modeling, research or history, etc. Please, some of you have already said they would attend, we hope you do. We would like to fill at least a half day with some talks from you with maybe a Q&A session. There will not be a judged competition. We encourage you to bring with you, or ship to us, a ship model. The museum will sponser a public showing of your models and ask the public to vote for their favorite. Due to the non-competitive and non-commecial nature of this event (it is meant to be more of a social occasion than a convention), the museum cannot allow commercial transactions to take place at the museum. Suppliers are encouraged to bring what they want to show, and maybe take orders, thats ok as long as no money changes hands. There are legal ramifications here that we are not willing to deal with. We are proposing the following schedule. Friday-AM registration and welcome, setup of shipmodel exhibit, probably in the model exhibition space on the Salem and general getting to meet the listmembers. Friday-PM, for those that express intrest in seeing some sights we can set up a couple of tours for you. One would be to Fall River and the Battleship Massachusetts, Destroyer Joseph P. Kennedy Jr., Submarine Lionfish, Russian Missle Corvette Hiddensee, two PT boats and the Fall River Maritime Museum with its terrific model collection (you gotta see their Titanic). This is about one hour away by car. Another tour would be by catamarn ferry from the Salem to Boston and the USS Constitution, Destroyer Cassin Young and the USS Constitution Museum, all in the former Boston Naval Shipyard. Saturday-all day a series of talks and discussions regarding our favorite subjects, some informal discussion groups on any subjects that may come to mind. Also a chance to informally socialize with each other and rub elbows with those that know about some things than I do. (Opps, did I say I?). Midday a caterted light lunch and an evening banquet with a surprise speaker. It sure will be a surprise if we can find one. All this surrounded by the ambiance of 17,000 tons of steel. Sunday- formal tours of the Salem, announcing the public's picks of the model exhibit and maybe a discussion of wether such an event is possible again in another venue. At our next meeting we will start to nail down some of the costs involved (bet you thought that this was free didn't you?) and start to put togther some information packets that we will send to people so they can make their arrangements (attractions, hotels etc.). Listmembers are invited to send us your name, address, telephone number, e-mail address and how many will attend. For those from outside the US, send me an e-mail (ca139johnf@aol.com) as I will be the contact for now on this meet. We will work out at the next meeting (early January) how we are going to handle the mailing costs etc., but we gotta know how many are willing to come. The name of the game is that this a social occasion, not a stuctured event with every second filled with something going on. It is ment to be a relaxed time to get to know some people that share the same intrests that you do. Thats what we accomplished today. We look forward to hearing from a lot of you and and that you have the same enthusiasm the we do. If I have forgotten anything, please jump in and let me know, I'm an engineer of the mechanical variety and not a master of language or memory. John Frohock US Naval & Shipbuilding Museum 739 Washington St. Quincy, Massachusetts 02169 USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Gene Larson Subject: Butler class kit? I have received the following query. Can anyone help? I am looking for a kit of the Destroyer Escort USS George E. Davis DE357. I believe it is a Butler class. Gene Larson, Alexandria, Virginia mailto:genenrg@Naut-Res-Guild.org Nautical Research Guild, Inc. http://www.Naut-Res-Guild.org "A non-profit, tax exempt, charitable, educational organization with international membership, dedicated to maritime research and accurate -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: More on Wahoo Tom, we may be leading poor Dave astray. One of the most obvious differences between the E-boats and Government boats was that the Government boats had their anchor on the PORT side. E-Boats but them on the STARBOARD side. Revell's boat is an E-Boat. I've got the HR fittings, they're going to look good on the boat. I think that a smaller anchor than HR's 1/192 anchor is better, I've got a 1/350 version that fits the notch in Revell's hull nicely. Mark Doremus Land locked Eden Prairie, MN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: LUCASNER@aol.com Subject: Re: Wahoo's final patrol According to WAHOO by Richard O'Kane, SILENT VICTORY by Clay Blair, and UNITED STATES SUBMARINE LOSSES, the Wahoo was lost on her SEVENTH patrol. She departed Pearl harbor on September 10th, 1943 for the La Perouse Strait. She was never heard from again. Japanese news agency later reported a steamer sunk in near the Tsushima strait on Oct 5. The JANAC later credited this sinking, along with 3 other ships to the Wahoo, in the Sea of Japan at that time. On Oct. 11, the date that Wahoo was scheduled to exit the La Perouse strait, Japanese records reported a Jap aircraft discovering, depth-bombing and allegedly sinking a US sub it found on the surface. This must have been Wahoo. Wahoo's 6th patrol was from 2 Aug to 29 Aug '43 into the Sea of Japan and resulted in 0 ships sunk by Morton. Regards, Dave Lueck -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Philosophy Frankly, I don't know where anyone got the idea that ship modellers on this list look down on any other modellers. I must have scrolled past that posting. I've always thought of us as an open-minded group. If you go back to the archives, you'll see a thread where we all listed what our current projects were. Almost all of us were working on more than one project. At least one of those projects was a steel navy ship/boat, while the other projects were cars, aircraft, AFVs and even a few Sci-Fi subjects. I just put two projects in the case and I'm working on three more, none of which are ships (yes, they fly, but they also float). Let's lighten up a little out there. Marc Flake Tarrant County, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Steve Singlar Subject: Re: 1.1" mounts on USS Arizona >> I just received the Floating Drydock 1/192 scale plans for the Arizona as she appeared on 7 December. The plans show her fitted with four 1.1" AA mounts in tubs aft of the 'B' turret and fwd of the 'X'? turret. I thought I read somewhere that the gunshields had been fitted, but the guns themselves had not been installed prior to the attack. Is this true? Also, the plans show her fitted with radar. Not very clear, but did she mount an SC-1 or possibly SC-2 on that Sunday? I've never had reason to doubt any Floating Drydock product, but since I can't find many detailed pictures of her on the day of the attack (that is in one piece) I have to explore all 'rumors' and 'possibilities'. << Dave, From what I have read, at the time of the attack, the Arizona was undergoung some modifications prior to returning to the states for more work. The work includded installation of the 1.1" gun tubs, installation of an antenna bas for the radar and construction of a radar shack for the radar electronics.The Vestal's crew was constructing the radar shack, hence the reason she wastied up along side on Dec. 7. Again as I understand it, the actual radar and 1/1" guns were to be installed on the west coast. If you visit the Arizona Memorial, you can see the starboard quaterdeck gun tub beneath the memorial. (Go in the morning, there is less glare on the water.) Steve Singlar Pelham, MH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: resin overpour >> I have heard some folks here complain about removing the resin overpour common to most resin kits. Some time ago I bought a hand held belt sander from Micro Mark with 60 belts. This little bugger makes resin dust out of overpour in the blink of an eye! I use this tool on every single model I build so I really depend on it. It's not cheap, (about $75.00 to $80.00 including the speed control) but I would buy another one in a minute. << I have one of them too, Rusty, and your right, they do work great. The real problem is that the resin "overpour" should not be there is the first place, there are many ways to avoid it when casting the parts, they just require a bit more work on the part of the caster. I avoid them in my home casting and that professional caster I was telling you about NEVER has them on his parts. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: UPDATED WEM PAGES Hi Guys I have just updated my "What's New" pages.. the latest arrivals of kits, books etc. http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/whatsnew.htm followed by an update to the WEM photoetched brass pages as follows: Includes new 1/700, 1/600, 1/400 and 1/350 brass detail sets (get cracking Peter!). http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/wembrass/wembrass.htm I have actually updated every single photo of the etched brass sets, as one's technology has moved on over the past few years! I have also updated my main pages for plastic and resin kits, etched brass, videos, and books (Felix Bustelo might like to check this one out!). Also, talking about Airfix Iron Dukes, a superb build by Dr George Pek has also been added from this location. http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/plist1.htm Also, linking from the Airfix 1/600 King George V, a couple of lines below the afore-mentioned location, Dr Pek's 1/600 KGV build. Completed a few years ago, he built it with absolutely no etched brass detail or aftermarket parts, adding a huge amount of detail not present on the plastic model. Even the rails were scratchbuilt! Finally, Plastic Ship Modeller magazine, Issue 21, is expected to be sent to us maybe Monday or Tuesday (thanks Dan), so we should get the delivery before the end of the week.I know that large numbers of SMMLlie folk subscribe to PSM If anyone wishes to subscribe to this excellent publication through White Ensign Models, subscriptions are as follows: U.K. Domestic subs 18.00 Pounds for four issues Europe, Subs 20.00 pounds to include airmail shipping Rest of the World, 22.00 pounds to include air shipping. You will also recive the lastest and most up-to-date WEM product listings for free! Of course, we can take any form of payment (messages and orders can be placed direct to me if it makes life easy), except a U.S. dollar cheque (you'll have to go direct to Dan Jones himself with those!) Dan will post on SMML exactly what we can expect from Issue 21 if I ask nicely, won't you Dan? Thanks for your consideration. Caroline Carter White Ensign Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume