Subject SMML16/11/99VOL731 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 00:09:27 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: 1/450 Akagi (kind of) and Japanese writing 2: Wood ship resources 3: Re: Judging accuracy 4: Fellow SMMLIES: Spare Parts 5: IPMS Judging 6: Re: Judging accuracy 7: 1/700 Cadet 8: USN WW II ARMAMENT DATA SOURCE 9: Re: HMS Cossack 10: 1/700 cadet 11: Rivet counters 12: Re: judging 13: HMS Cossack Photo 14: Trivia 15: Internet site for U.S.S. San Francisco photos?? 16: USS New Jeresey 17: JAG USS Long Beach 18: Re: Butler class DE 19: Bangkok 20: Books on building wooden ship models 21: IJN modelling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New release from Loose Cannon Productions -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: 1/450 Akagi (kind of) and Japanese writing >> and a big 'ma' (I think that's the character...my Japanese is very bad) for the deck too. << Actually, the character is the katakana for 'a'- as in 'Akagi'. Kaga had a 'ka', Hiryu had a 'hi' and guess what? Soryu had a 'so'. Actually, I noticed that during the early part of the war, the Japanese carriers had katakana characters on their decks for recognition, but in late-war photos such as that famous close-up one of the Zuiho at Cape Engano, they used hiragana characters instead. Anyone know if there was some rhyme or reason to this? (for those who aren't familiar with the Japanese language, katakana and hiragana are two 'alphabets' used by the language which are based on syllables. There are about 70 or so characters in each alphabet with a direct one-to-one corrospondence between them- kind of like having to ways of each letter. The katakana characters are more angular and blocky in appearance- check out the names on the sides of IJN destroyers' hulls- while hiragana is more cursive in appearance- look at the ships names on the stern. Katakana is usually used when writing words of foreign origin as well as for billboards and signs. Hiragana is used for native words in conjunction with kanji (chinese characters). All in all, not the easiest form of writing, but really cool once you start to understand how it's put together! ) Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: DurlingK@aol.com Subject: Wood ship resources >> Does anybody has some advice on good books about wooden ship modelling, the kind of "How to .." ? << For basics, I recommend "Ship Modeling Simplified" by Frank Mastini Specifics on planking: "Planking the Built-Up Ship Model" by Jim Roberts Overall - "Ship Modeling from Stem to Stern" - I forget the author, but a book search should find it. You should also know about the Ship Modeler's Forum (SMF), which is a list like this one, except for wood ship models. They have a very interestin website, and you can join the list from there: http://pionet.net/~cody/shipmodelpage.html HTH Ken Durling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Re: Judging accuracy There's another point to consider regarding "accuracy to the prototype." Is the accuracy of the kit in the box -- something beyond the control of the modeler -- considered in judging the finished result? What if the modeler does an excellent job assembling and painting the kit but does nothing to correct the kit's flaws? Also, do modelers lose points, gain them or whatever if their attempt at scratch building add-on details are reasonably accurate representations but are cruder than the pristine-precise ones available from a purchased PE set? Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Melvin Burmaster" Subject: Fellow SMMLIES: Spare Parts Over the weekend a catastrophe occurred to me by way of fire in my storage trailer. You guessed it - models gone up in vaprous emissions. Luckily only half, but in all some distressing losses, such as "one of a kind" ships such as a projection of the Yamato design series with 4X2 gun turrets; several large cruisers, etc. All were in 1/700 scale and either were scratchbuilt or go back to the dawn of 1/700th scale sales in the United States. My question is of the fraternity: who out there in SMMLIE land has dabbled with stockpiles of materials. I say this seriously, for as opined on these pages by others, most companies deal with AC or armour. As a bye, I've looked at the few "spare parts" people on Internet and the same holds true - ship parts are hard to come by. I'm looking to this information for future use, since I have lost - hold your seats - 66 completed models and 50 boxed model, plus a big inventory of parts beyond description. As you can determine, tis too big a project to consider rebuilding any large fraction at one time, and as I am an attorney, you can expect the insurer to give me no quarter. Pray post a legend or two as to inventory and costs. Respectfully, MJBurmaster Hi Melvin, Our commiserations on this catastrophe. Shane & Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: IPMS Judging >> Until I have a judging corps of Nautical engineers we'll have to rely on what we know and let some things slide. That's why I invite as many ship modelers as possible to help judge. Two heads (or twenty) are better than one. << What is the IPMS policy towards including a binder of research materials with the model to be judged? BTW If models "behind glass" in display cases are not permitted, according to IPMS logic, judges who wear eyeglasses or contacts should be excluded as well. They are looking at all the entries through glass. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Judging accuracy To add a bit to Rusty's post, it's not a case of the judges not being nautical engineers, but one of not having every necessary reference at hand for each entry. Still, once past those all-important basics, if I identify an historical inaccuracy (i.e., the wrong weapons suite for the period depicted, etc.), I will downgrade a model's score. I would have downgraded that 1/350 HORNET, but I was confined to judging sailing ships at the Orlando Nationals. The problem did not have to do with the pattern--that was well and accurately rendered. It had to do with the fact that HORNET historically was in MS 12 (mod), with Navy Blue (or Sea Blue) and Ocean Gray on the hull, and Ocean Gray and Haze Gray on the superstructure. The model used Navy Blue (or Sea Blue) and Ocean Gray from the waterline to the top of the superstructure. Thus the darkest portion of the pattern on the superstructure, which should have been Ocean Gray, was Navy Blue (or Sea Blue), and the lightest portion, which should have been Haze Gray, was Ocean Gray. Haze Gray was entirely absent. HORNET's camouflage historically used 3 colors, not 2. I would have marked the model down for that (but not for whether or not the colors matched our paint chips). Similarly, I would have marked down John Sheridan's ATLANTA for its 40mm mounts, which should have been 1.1's. It's an inaccuracy. Since we're telling stories on ourselves, my 1/700 ENTERPRISE, painted up in the MS 33/4ab dazzle pattern, had taken a continual string of first place awards at local IPMS shows. In its last show at a Regional before going on the the Nationals, it was thrown out for a basic flaw. The problem? It had been so long since I'd done any aircraft modeling that I'd managed to put the wing insignias (upper left, bottom right) on backwards (top right, bottom left) on the eintire air wing. No one had caught it up to that point, but an aircraft judge happened to walk by, glanced down, and said, "That's wrong." I had to re-decal the entire air wing before the Nationals--not too tough for those planes with folded wings, but let me tell you about doing the others without removing them from the deck, and working around all the crew figures glued to the flight deck. You don't want to go there! But that was an inaccuracy for which the model was rightfully eliminated from further consideration (corrected, it did take a 3rd at the Nationals). John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: 1/700 Cadet Ralph wrote >> Can anybody show/tell me about some painting methods which bring out the details, and make the structures, guns, etc... discernable from eachother. My destroyer looks like a blob unless its right in front of my face. << Welcome to the nut house! IMO, when you get down to 700th scale, its all about scapes and colors. For the most of us, we just can't detail things that small and have them look "in scale". Even if you add the necessary details they often disappear into the background. If you remember back to your experiences in weathering your aircraft models, the same thing applies here. Its a matter of lights and darks. I apply a coat of Polly-S clear gloss over the acrylic colors, and when dry, I apply a _very thin_ wash of color & turpentine over that. I'll use some burnt sienna or burnt umber oils for the color. I've even used purple on WWII haze grey (freshly painted - no rust). Pay attention to the molded on railings, hatches, grates, gun barrel springs, etc. When the wash is dry - go back over the details with a _dry_ brush of the predominant camo color to pop them out of the shadows. You can do the same with enamel colors. Seal with an enamel gloss and wash with a thin acrylic color wash. Then dry brush with enamels Another trick - used in 1:1 scale - is to paint the undersides of the deck overhangs white. The white reflects light down on the bulkhead and softens the shadows. Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Dave Baker Subject: USN WW II ARMAMENT DATA SOURCE Having been following with interest the various discussions of whether ARIZONA et al did or did not have 1.1-in. AA mounts and other weaponry during WW II, I thought it might be useful to point out that there was a monthly USN publication (post-war, it gradually was published at gradually greater and greater intervals, and today's navy hardly rates such a publication, so little is the armament that is carried on that minority of the USN's ships that have any weaponry at all) that listed all armament aboard any armed vessel of the USN. Called ARMAMENT SUMMARY, it was one of the very first Navy machine-assembled publications, and copies are available at the Main Navy Library at the Naval Historical Center, Washington Navy Yard (and copies are also held by the Ships' Histories Branch at the Naval Historical Center). Also issued during the war were periodic bulletins from BUORD listing changes made and changes to BE made to warship armaments. Now, these documents SHOULD be an accurate record of what was proposed and what was actually accomplished. BUT, it was wartime, and orders from Washington inevitably had a way of attenuating the further from the center of power one went. Also, ship captains had a way of extemporizing additional light armament if the opportunity presented (that even went on during the Vietnam War: a friend of mine commanded one of our far-too-lightly-armed KNOX-class frigates and got into minor trouble for lifting and installing several unauthorized .50-cal. machinegun mounts and for acquiring some REDEYE shoulder-launched SAMs). Thus, a dated photograph, or set of photos, is often the only authoritative source for equipment fitting--but that fit could have changed within days. Today, alas, it's much harder to use photos nowadays, for the offical dates on the back are, more often than not, not the date the photo was snapped but the date it was acquired--or, in the case of the Royal Navy and RAN, the date the photo was PRINTED (thus, different prints from the same negative may bear different dates). Bottom line: You can only do the best you can do--and then wait for the sniping from somebody who knows more than you do--or thinks he/she does. Ship modelling is 3-dimensional historical research, and history is never finished being written. Cheer/Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: HMS Cossack >> "I have recently come across a private photo of the Cossack, taken in November 1940. The ship is in overall medium grey. A twin 4" mounting in place of the 4.7"twin mount in X position. No other changes, and no radar Have also obtained a picture of the Dido in 1940 in a disruptive camouflage scheme, quite interesting..." << O.K. Stop taunting us ... we NEED that Dido photo... please?? Pretty please????? O.K. I guess we'll have to wait for "Royal Navy Camouflage Part One", before we see it.. and after all I did to promote WR Press at the Nationals... All The Best Caroline WEM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: 1/700 cadet Hi Ralph Welcome aboard Don't quite understand the first question - none of my models need any special painting to show the structures clearly. I do paint ships in different shades of grey to represent different weather conditions and I do add white for scale effect. For blast bags I use milliput mixed with a fair amount of water and then sculpted round the gun port. For Japanese warships you can try Synder and Short's paint chips which are a good start and then if you're like me ignore them totally and paint the ship according to whichever weather conditions you feel like representing. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Rivet counters Hi Jeff I like to make the distinction between rivet counters who are just anal retentives and experts who will happily give their time and knowledge to help others. I'm pleased to say that the swarm falls into the latter category. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "graham" Subject: Re: judging Heyyyyy not fair;) ok I wear glasses makes it easier to spot your mistakes;)(GRIN) only joking Peter. Of course I am talking of the Kirov, I can just see it Center piece on the sig stand. best wishes, graham -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Edward Brown" Subject: HMS Cossack Photo The Tribals original main armament consisted 8 Mk X11 4.7" QF guns in four Mk XIX mountings. This mounting had a maximum elevation of only 40 degrees. War experience, particularly Narvik and Dunkirk, proved that the Tribal Class 's A/A capability was not particularly effective and steps were taken to counteract this deficiency. X Mounting was replaced by a twin 4inch Mk XIX. The main-mast cut down to short pole and the height of after funnel reduced by 4ft. This modification was carried out on ALL surviving Tribals in late 1940. The exception were Afridi and Gurkha which had already been lost -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Trivia >> One of my present projects is a 1:48 model of the Yangtze River gunboat USS PANAY PR 5. She was attacked and sunk by Japanese aircraft on 12 Dec. 1937 ... the first naval ship "ever" to be sunk by enemy aircraft (as far as I can determine). << OK Guys; Here is the Minadmiral trivia contest. No prizes, just braging rights. 1-What was the first navy to operate combined task forces of battleships, cruisers, destroyers and aircraft carrying ships IN COMBAT? 2-What was the first ship attacked from the air by this navy? Chuck Duggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Procladius@aol.com Subject: Internet site for U.S.S. San Francisco photos?? This message was forwarded to me recently - Can anyone help? Charles Watson >>From: Mrs Greg Klein Subject: USS San Francisco Mr. Aiken: I was told that you may be able to help me in my quest to find a good picture on the internet of the USS San Francisco that was at the battle of Guadalcanal, forgive me if I did not name that battle correctly. My grandfather was on the USS San Francisco (a cook) and I am trying to find a picture of the ship so that I may make something out of it. Do you by chance know how I may find the website that has the best picture? Also, were you on the USS San Francisco? Just curious. Thanks in advance, Mrs. Klein << -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Timothy J. Barron" Subject: USS New Jeresey There is a photo of the Jersey being towed here: http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/images/in-news.html \\\|/// \\ ~ ~ // ( @ @ ) ------- oOOo-(_)-oOOo--------------------------- Timothy J. Barron mailto:tjbarro@worldnet.att.net http://www.geocities.com/tjbarro -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Frank and Carol Berger" Subject: JAG USS Long Beach Just received my 1/700 JAG Collective USS Long beach in the mail. Kudos to Bill Gruner and Pacific Front Hobbies for the usual fast service. The kit itself is a beauty. Upon opening the tube, I found a superbly cast hull, square bridge structure, miscellaneous resin casting for launchers, directors, guns and ships boat, two small photo etch frets and a single page instruction sheet. The frets contain helicopter pad safety nets, various antennaes, boat davits and structural details. There are no railings included. All the resin is straight, crisp and well detailed. My only complaints with the kit are the sparse instructions and the heavily engraved heli-pad markings. The first will be taken of with research and the second with filler putty! This is the first modern warship I've tackled. If JAG's releases continue with the quality of this one, it certainly won't be the last. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Jowfx@cs.com Subject: Re: Butler class DE Skywave makes a 1/700 scale Butler class. It comes with two in the box. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Arjun Sarup" Subject: Bangkok Hi, Anybody know of any ship model shops in Bangkok??? (Assuming, that is,that this sort of distraction can also be found.) Is there anything of nautical interest around the city? I believe there are some Royal Barges afloat. BTW, I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who's been to Thailand about their experiences out there, things worth visiting, etc. Please contact me off-list. Best wishes, Arjun Sarup Mauritius http://pages.intnet.mu/warbirds Hi Arjun, We were in Bangkok in 92 & the only thing we saw of nautical interest was the Royal Barge "hanger", on a river cruise. Unfortunately this was BM (Before Modelling) for both of us, so can't comment on any model shops Also, the Royal Barges are for a short time, on the river daily now for a festival IIRC. Shane. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Michael D'Silva" Subject: Books on building wooden ship models >> Does anybody has some advice on good books about wooden ship modelling, the kind of "How to .." ? << Hi Stefan, There are quite a few excellent titles on the market and I have included the names of some of the better known ones. You were not specific about whether you are a scratch or kit builder, but I have included the names of some which should cover both areas adequately. Or, at least enough to get you started. Naturally, some of them may be out of print but a quick visit to a large bookstore like www.amazon.com should give you an idea of price and availability. Kit Construction: These books are ideal for anyone new to wooden ship modelling. The first one, Ship Modelling Simplified, is the best! It guides you through, step by step, and actually warns you (in advance) of problems which can crop up and how to avoid them. In fact, if you only ever buy one ship modelling book, make it this one! * Ship Modelling Simplified by Frank Mastini - US$17.95 approx. (The best book for a beginner!) Published by International Marine Publishing. ISBN 0-87742-272-9 * Ship Models from Kits by Colin Riches (Also very good but possibly out of print!) Published by Conway Maritime Press Ltd. ISBN 0-85177-461 X * Period Model Boat Manual by F.D. Conte (Aimed mainly at construction of the AEROPICCOLA range of model kits!) Other details unavailable! Scratch Building: These books are inexpensive reprints and well worth having if you plan to do any scratch building. However, if you're just starting out and you're about to build a kit then you probably won't need any of these. * Ship Models - How to Build Them by Charles G. Davis Dover Publications, Inc. ISBN 0-486-25170-5 * The Ship Model Builder's Assistant by Charles G. Davis Dover Publications, Inc. ISBN 0-486-25584-0 * The Built-up Ship Model by Charles G. Davis Dover Publications, Inc. ISBN 0-486-26174-3 Books that cover both kit construction and scratch building: * Historic Ship Models by Wolfram Zu Mondfeld (US$19.95 approx.) Sterling Publishing Co., Inc. ISBN 0-8069-5733-6 * Ship Modelling from Stem to Stern by Milton Roth (US$17.95 approx.) Published by TAB Books (McGraw Hill) ISBN 0-8306-2844-4 These titles are ideal reference and deal with specific areas of wooden ship modelling: * Planking techniques for Model Ship Builders by Donald Dressel (US$9.95 approx) TAB Books Inc. ISBN 0-8306-2868-1 * The Art of Rigging by George Biddlecombe (US$5.95 approx) Dover Publications, Inc. ISBN 0-486-26343-6 * The Rigging of Ships In the Days of the Spritsail Topmast 1600-1720 by R. C. Anderson re-issued as Seventeenth Century Rigging by Dover Publications. Best wishes, Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: IJN modelling For those interested in IJN material, consider stopping by http://www.tir.com/~lowj/Index.htm The owner of this site is creating 3-D models of a number of componets used aboard IJN ships. I haven't had a chance to look though everything there, but it looks like he's doing a lot of research to create his model/renderings. Who knows...he might have some worthwhile research materials available. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "lcp9" Subject: New release from Loose Cannon Productions Loose Cannon Productions is pleased to announce the release of it's latest 1/700 resin kit, Victory ship circa 1944 This kit can be purchased from Pacific Front Hobbies, Floating Dry Dock, or direct from Loose Cannon. Cost is $35.00 plus shipping. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk/ for the back issue archive. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume