Subject: SMML17/11/99VOL732 Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 01:49:22 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Lost Aurora 2: Snyder & Short Paint Chips 3: Mast assembly 4: Re: Judging accuracy 5: Re: Judging accuracy Part 2 6: Hiragana, katakana, kanji 7: Re: IPMS(USA) policy and documentation 8: Re: To John Snyder 9: Panay not first, etc. 10: Re: IPMS Judging 11: Re: Judging accuracy 12: Dido and Cossack -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New Stuff form Pacific Front -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Tom Eisenhour Subject: Lost Aurora Hi SMMLies, Craig Bennett wrote: >> I discovered this on the Starship Modeler website dated Nov1,1999 in an article about the announcement of the company's return. That page is updated twice a week. Try emailing the editor of Starship Modeler website for a copy. That's all I know. << If you can't wait for an official announcement from Mark Dean and Aurora-owner family heir, grandson Gennaro "Jerry" Giammarino, console yourself with these web sites in the meantime: Starship Modeler's News page, fourth news story down: http://www.starshipmodeler.com/news.htm CultTVman's "What's New?" article: http://www.CultTVman.com/newslost_aurora.html Regards, Tom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com Subject: Snyder & Short Paint Chips Hi Folks, Where can I order a set of the Snyder & Short Paint chips? John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Alan Salas" Subject: Mast assembly Hello Everyone, I've recently received a couple of resin kits (early Christmas) and taped to the lid of the box I find brass rod to assemble mainmasts. Having never assembled masts this way, I need to know the best way to approach this assembly. Do I "notch" the mainmast to allow a seat for the yard or is there some other technique that can be used. Also which adhesive would give me the best bond. I want to do some rigging and need the strength to accomodate. Thanks, Allan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Terry Sumner" Subject: Re: Judging accuracy John Snyder wrote: >> To add a bit to Rusty's post, it's not a case of the judges not being nautical engineers, but one of not having every necessary reference at hand for each entry. Still, once past those all-important basics, if I identify an historical inaccuracy (I.e., the wrong weapons suite for the period depicted, etc.), I will downgrade a model's score. I would have downgraded that 1/350 HORNET, but I was confined to judging sailing ships at the Orlando Nationals. The problem did not have to do with the pattern--that was well and accurately rendered. It had to do with the fact that HORNET historically was in MS 12 (mod), with Navy Blue (or Sea Blue) and Ocean Gray on the hull, and Ocean Gray and Haze Gray on the superstructure. The model used Navy Blue (or Sea Blue) and Ocean Gray from the waterline to the top of the superstructure. Thus the darkest portion of the pattern on the superstructure, which should have been Ocean Gray, was Navy Blue (or Sea Blue), and the lightest portion, which should have been Haze Gray, was Ocean Gray. Haze Gray was entirely absent. HORNET's camouflage historically used 3 colors, not 2. I would have marked the model down for that (but not for whether or not the colors matched our paint chips). Similarly, I would have marked down John Sheridan's ATLANTA for its 40mm mounts, which should have been 1.1's. It's an inaccuracy. << With all due respect John, If you had attempted to do that and I was on your panel, I would have argued against any marking down, FOR THOSE REASONS ONLY. In such a case you cannot mark down for this accuracy glitch. You can only judge on how WELL DONE those colors were applied and/or how WELL DONE the 40mm mounts were done. If I'm not mistaken, IPMS(USA) rules are pretty specific on this. So if you are a trained IPMS nationals judge, how can you disregard the rules and do what you said? While I tend to agree that judging SHOULD include accuracy on obvious points, the rules do not call for allowing markdowns on accuracy items. Terry Sumner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Judging accuracy Part 2 >> There's another point to consider regarding "accuracy to the prototype." Is the accuracy of the kit in the box -- something beyond the control of the modeler -- considered in judging the finished result? What if the modeler does an excellent job assembling and painting the kit but does nothing to correct the kit's flaws? << I tell all my judges before we start "to judge a model by what the modeler does, not what he didn't do." In IPMS(USA) judging we primarily judge the "basics." That is finish, seams, rigging, lining up the masts and yardarms as well as photo etch application, decals and how well all those are executed. We also take into account the difficulty of the overall project. I also tell the judges that a large complex model means there's more to go wrong. For the most part we allow the more complex models a little slack when comparing them to simpler ones. That's why we have the classes we have. It keeps the modeling styles and construction techniques pretty much on the same level. It's not our place to decide what should have been added or subtracted. A model that has corrections or modifications made (assuming they are well done) will definitely have the upper hand against those who have no modifications. >> Also, do modelers lose points, gain them or whatever if their attempt a scratch building add-on details are reasonably accurate representations but are cruder than the pristine-precise ones available from a purchased PE set? << That's a tough call. It's one of those things you just have to see for yourself. I can tell you this, if the modeler scratchbuilds an SPS-49 radar (Phillip Toy is a master at this) from stretched sprue and makes it look pretty good, that should be taken into consideration with the overall complexity of the project. However, if the same SPS-49 looks like crap, I would count off points. The basics and how well they are executed is the primary factor when judging in IPMS(USA) competition. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Arjun Sarup" Subject: Hiragana, katakana, kanji Hi, I was reading Yohan's description about hiragana and katakana being used to name IJN ships. Unless I'm mistaken, kanji could also be used with katakana, since kanji are 'stand-alone' characters. Perhaps this is not a common combination, but I think I saw this on a tourist map. Which leads me to my question; were IJN ships also named using kanji? Best wishes, Arjun Sarup Mauritius http://pages.intnet.mu/warbirds -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: IPMS(USA) policy and documentation >> What is the IPMS policy towards including a binder of research materials with the model to be judged? << If you mean placing documentation beside the model, I definitely encourage it. However, BE BRIEF AND TO THE POINT. We don't have time for the judges to go through a twenty page book. If you do so much work it requires 20 pages then by all means include them but keep it brief. This is the only way the judge can see what extra work you have done. Also, if you enter a model depicting a Florissant orange Fletcher DD you had better have a photo. >> BTW If models "behind glass" in display cases are not permitted, according to IPMS logic, judges who wear eyeglasses or contacts should be excluded as well. They are looking at all the entries through glass. << I wear contacts which are plastic so they meet the IPMS definition of plastic. You'll also note the glass is less than an inch away from the eye. Rusty White IPMS(USA) Head ship judge http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: To John Snyder >> I would have downgraded that 1/350 HORNET, but I was confined to judging sailing ships at the Orlando Nationals. << John, Find me at the USA Nats in Dallas and I be sure to put you in the more modern categories. Your expertise is needed there. If there are any disagreements about paint schemes I'll get you in on the discussion with the judges in that category as long as you're not entered there. Rusty White IPMS(USA) Head ship judge http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "FRED E. KENNAMER" Subject: Panay not first, etc. Folks, Pardon the pedantry, but I am a hobbyist and a certain amount of it goes with the territory. There was a German U-boat sunk by an allied aircraft in World War 1 (I loaned my copy of Tarrant's "The U-boat Offensive, 1914-45" to a sociopath who disappeared, so I can't quote details here) and I think an Austrian plane sank a French submarine too, but I'm a bit fuzzy on that. With the impressive and boggling level of knowledge shown in the trivia thread it's surprising no one caught this. If memory serves, U-boats also sank two Japanese Destroyers on convoy duty in the Mediterranean. Shame on you--who shall remain nameless--for calling the World War 1 naval conflict "boring". Harumph. One German skipper, fishing on his day off, found a submerged British Sub fouled in a anti-submarine net. He rowed ashore, got a landmine from a Turkish Army unit, went back and used his fishing pole to sink her. Along these lines, the UB-49 was interned in Cadiz (I think) Spain in 1917 for about a month before violating neutrality and escaping. Photos were taken at the time alongside a Spanish Torpedo Boat. Does anybody know where to find good quality prints? It's the subject of an ongoing scratchbuilding project. On a similar note: I remember a kit of a World War 1 British Q-Ship from the mid-sixties. Who made this kit? Since I'm sort of touching on the area of a currently amusing thread, how about a "Quibble" of SMMLies or a "Squabble"? Thanks again for the fun forum. Fred Kennamer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: James Corley Subject: Re: IPMS Judging >> BTW If models "behind glass" in display cases are not permitted, according to IPMS logic, judges who wear eyeglasses or contacts should be excluded as well. They are looking at all the entries through glass. << Hmmmmmmm, guess that eliminates danged near everybody but me! [...I am King Lord of the Judges now! All will bow before the great one...] Anyway, he does raise an interesting point. Would this go so far as to also exclude Opti-Visors and other magnification devices? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Judging accuracy >> Since we're telling stories on ourselves, my 1/700 ENTERPRISE, [snip] I'd managed to put the wing insignias (upper left, bottom right) on backwards (top right, bottom left) on the eintire air wing. [snip] But that was an inaccuracy for which the model was rightfully eliminated from further consideration (corrected, it did take a 3rd at the Nationals). << I disagree. This would come under accuracy, which has generally been used as a tie-breaker between two otherwise equal models. This would, IMO, be akin to using the wrong shade of olive drab on armament loaded on an airplane that otherwise was well done. If the decals were placed in the appropriate reverse location, not silvered, etc., there would have been no problem, IMO. I have seen modelers who build kits with intentional flaws (or for good luck I suppose). A local airliner buddy took first at an IPMS Nationals with a PSA 727 which had the flap track fairings installed backwards!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Dido and Cossack After looking at the photo taken from the Hood in late 1940 labelled as the Dido. It became obvious that the ship in question was in fact the Naiad. On the matter of the Dido having camouflage ,I believe that she was wearing a disruptive pattern from very late 1941 for an unknown but brief period, before changing to what may have been a dark hull and light upperworks type in 1942. By August 1943 there is evidence that she adopted an Admiralty Disruptive type. By early 1944 this pattern had undergone a substantial modification, and while at Malta Yard in March 1944 the disruptive design was painted out. There was mention that by late 1940 ALL Tribal class destroyers had the twin 4.7" mounting in X position replaced by a twin 4", the aft funnel cut down, and the mainmast replaced by a short pole. I have a very clear photo of the Nubian taken at Alexandria in 1941 where she still retains the 4,7" in X position, the aft funnel has NOT been cut in height. The rig has been changed with a type 286 radar aerial at the foremast head. The mainmast has been removed and replaced with a very small aerial spreader. As the ship did not leave the Med until after being damaged off Crete in May of 1941, she would not have had any refit up to the time of said damage. Her first major refit and repair took place at Bombay in 1941/42. I hope that this note is of value to modellers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Bill Gruner Subject: New Stuff form Pacific Front Things are pretty much back to normal here at Pacific Front Hobbies, we're still getting caught up on backorders, which might take a little longer, but hang in there, we will get your kits, etc. to you. Here's some new stuff coming or available now: 1/700 USN/Maritime Victory ship by Loose Cannon Productions...$35.00 1/700 Bismarck (resin) by Samek...introductory price, w/photoetch..Wow!...$69.00 1/700 German WW 2 monitor/river gunboat Bechelaren by Samek....$12.50 1/700 WW 2 Italian carrier AQUILA..resin, by Delphis...coming soon 1/700 WW 2 Italian Torpedo Boat Animoso, by Delphis...." " 1/700 WW 2 Italian Destroyer Poeti(Possibly Oriani) Class...Coming soon 1/700 WW 2 Italian Seaplane/Floatplane set (5 types)....Coming soon 1/700 WW 2 Italian Seaplane Base w/buildings...Coming soon 1/700 French Battleship Bretagne...Back in stock...$75.00 1/450 Hasegawa British Battleship Vanguard...CALL, in stock 1/450 Hasegawa Japanese Battleship Yamato 1/450 Japanese Carrier Akagi 1/350 Commander LCIs, LCS(L), Yard Oiler, Apache Tugboats...CALL 1/700 WSW German WW 1 Battlecruiser Derfflinger, resin....$85.00 1/700 WSW USN Heavy Cruiser Quincy (re-stock), resin....$65.00 1/350 Dragon USS Dallas vs Russian Alfa, back in stock...$12.00 (5)Seawolf /Torpedo Models (Now known as COMBAT SUB) 1/350 resin Soviet/Russian GOLF II....back in stock....$52.00 Books: (1)US Navy Submarines of WW 2 by Delta/Groundpower, excellent pictorials, parts I and II back in stock...$32.00 each (2)Imperial Japanese Navy Flying Boats...excellent photo/detail coverage on Emily/Mavis, etc...by Model-Art of Japan....NEW.....$35.00 (3)Imperial Japanese Navy Drawings Part III - Aircraft Carriers, Seaplane Tenders, Auxiliary Seaplane Tenders, Submarines, other misc. types...with 1/700 drawings & plans, + photos...a must for the 1/700 IJN modeler....NEW, by Model-Art....$26.00 (4) US Navy PC and Patrol Craft, by W. Veigle...HB, with PLANS...Nice, re-stock....$35.00 And much more, too much to list...next UPDATE due early December.If you have trouble e-mailing us, try: mailto:shipguy@internetcds.com Thanks, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies 541-464-8579 http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk/ for the back issue archive. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume