Subject: SMML19/11/99VOL734 Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:40:32 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Scratch buuilding masts 2: Peacekeepers 3: Re: Shaky Waters 4: Re: Dido/Dido and Cossack 5: Re: Giorgios Averof 6: Re: IJN HUMBROL COLOURS 7: Humbrol Colors Conversion. 8: Re: Arleigh Burkes 9: Re: IPMS (USA) judges answers 10: Re: JUDGING 11: CC's request 12: Re: FS595a chips 13: Hasagawa 1/450 Akagi 14: Re: German WWII Cruisers 15: Re: Great Book Series 16: Re: Judging colors 17: Re: Museum Ships 18: Re: Arleigh Burkes 19: Re: RN Camouflage 20: Any SMMLie's in Gibraltar? 21: German Ship Names on Hulls 22: Admiral Scheer 1940 23: Re: Museum Ships 24: Re: Japanese spelling, etc. 25: 1/700 DD and APD models 26: Tamaiya 1/350 Enterprise CVN65 27: A. Burke kits 28: Re: Judging 29: Re: Wahoo 30: Re: More on Wahoo 31: Coming to Cincinnati 32: German WW II Cruisers 33: USS Constitution update 34: Gloss or flat? 35: Anatomy Ship Series Yamato -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Model Expo update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Scratch buuilding masts >> My approach is to assemble the mast and legs using a template and then quickly add any supporting strutts to give strength. Allow the structure to set and then add platforms. Paint the mast and superglue it to the ship then add the final little extras like yards and radars. << The only part of this advice I do differently is to apply the yards to the masts while still on the template. Trying to hang the yards on the mast while installed on the model could be quite risky. You have glue the yardarm at dead center or you model will look lop sided. This is very hard to control when holding the yard in place with tweezers as the glue sets. I measure the kit parts and make a simple drawing to use as a guide. What you end up with is a drawing (including the yardarms) of the mast that can be used as a guide while gluing. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Donald Bridge Subject: Peacekeepers Hi Gang I hope that this off topic thread has not gone too far with this post. Over here in the Balkans we have a number of missions SFOR in Bosnia, KFOR in Kosovo, UNTAES in Eastern Slovonia (Part of Croatia) and troops in Macedonia & Albania. Most of the English speaking world is represented on these missions and there are at least 56 nations present in varying numbers. Ed Grune wrote about his friends here in Bosnia. The US troops here probably live and work under the most restrictive terms, most of the others do get out of base occasionally, but are not allowed to be out of uniform or in establishments whose main activity is the sale of alcohol. So it is obvious how appreciative the troops would be of any off duty activities. Keep up the good work Ed. Fortunately Caroline, Shaya and Bill keep me well supplied. This is indeed something that Ed needs supporting in. Don Bridge Sarajevo Bosnia -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "J. London" ubject: Re: Shaky Waters An excellent device for holding parts in place while the glue sets is a gizmo made by X-ACTO. I am not sure what it is called but it consists of a heavy base supporting an adjustable two-ended arm with clips with an almost unlimted range of positions. I use it to hold cross-trees in place when gluing to masts or for any other part that needs support. It can also be used to hold small parts while painting. Check with a hobby shop that stocks X-ACTO knives and other hobby tools. Mike London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Dido/Dido and Cossack Dido. I'm interested, do you have any numbers for these photos? Dido and Cossack. Are you referring to the Cossack or the Nubian photo? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Giorgios Averof The book is called AVEROF and sub-titled "the ship that changed the course of history". Sorry I did not include that in my earlier posting. Mike London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: IJN HUMBROL COLOURS I use Humbrol No. 27 for hull and superstructure, HN 5 Hull Red for waterline, and No. 29 for corticene decks. Mike London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Dave Watts" Subject: Humbrol Colors Conversion. Could anyone tell me the mixtures for mixing Deck Blue and Haze Grey using Humbrol paints?? Dave Watts on Cape Cod -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Re: Arleigh Burkes Naval Base Hobbies has them all. 1) A. Burke 1/700 full hull DML 2) Curtis Wilbur 1/700 waterline Skywave 3) A. Burke 1/350 full hull MB Models 4) Winston Churchill FLT II 1/350 full hull MB Models 5) A. Burke wooden kit 1/96 full hull BaD Models Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: IPMS (USA) judges answers >> 1. You can remove glass cases thereby damaging someones model and if the builder doesn't want to do this you don't judge their entry. << Correct. That's why we encourage the modeler to remove the case. We don't want the responsibility. What most folks here don't understand is that any case rule will affect ALL the modeling categories. So this isn't just a ship model rule. The aircraft judges MUST have access to ALL surfaces of the models. The same goes for armor, scratch builts etc. A case just wouldn't make that possible. So IPMS/USA isn't picking on ship modelers. I have the case rule on the agenda of the Contest Committee (we morons make the rules) to be taken up in Dallas. >> 2. You cannot mark down an entry if it is inaccurate and incorrect in some details. << I thought I was crystal clear on this in yesterdays SMML. I'll try again. We judge models by critiquing the "basics" (filling seams, decals, finish, mast alignment, etc.). If someone builds a model and fails to make changes to "accurize" the model, we don't fault them for that. We judge models by what the modeler did, not what he didn't do. If another model in the same class makes these corrections they would have a leg up on the guy that didn't. All this is taken into consideration before a final judgment is made. I'm sure you will agree that ships have many changes made to them over their operational life span. Maybe one guy had the info and one guy didn't. It's not the modelers fault that he doesn't have access to a research library as others do. That's why we stick to the basics. >> What kind of morons devised these rules? Actually I know the answer - RIVET COUNTERS!. I'm just glad I don't have anything to do with this ridiculous scene. << I'll bet you had no idea who wrote the rules, but you're willing to call names and gripe. I don't mind the griping, but don't toss out insults until you what you're talking about. To answer your question, the IPMS/USA Contest Committee makes and writes the rules for contest competition. You obviously don't know anyone on the committee (or the fact it even exists) or you would know the last thing these guys are is rivet counters (but you have no problem calling names). This moron has been on the Contest Committee for only one year and I have already introduced one major rule change. I know every person on the committee and they are not rivet counters. Those who make such accusations I dare say have never judged at an IPMS/USA National contest and therefore have no idea how things work while judging. The CC wants only what is best for the entrants and keep the rules as uniform and fair as possible. Remember, the rules must apply to ALL models in the room. The CC has made several changes to the rules dealing with conversions that will make a real difference at the Nats. in Dallas. In short, the modeler will have the option to enter minor conversions into the regular categories. This keeps him from being forced into the conversion category and competing with the massive conversion projects. I personally brought this rule change to the floor and it indeed happened. The fact that you're "glad", "not having anything to do with this ridiculous scene" is a major problem in IPMS (USA). Standing on the sidelines and griping doesn't affect any change. Why not join up and make your voice heard. Your voice will be heard as long as you have that IPMS/USA number behind your correspondence. I LISTENED to the membership about the case rule and it's on the agenda in Dallas. RIVET COUNTERS, CRAP! Rusty White IPMS/USA Head ship judge http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" Hi Rusty, Just curious, why must the rule apply across the board. Surely with the differences between modelling topics (not the basics), there would be room for some "genre specific rules"?? In regards to references, could that be changed to "judged according to reference SUPPLIED"?? That possibly could get around the hassle of the modeller not having a big library & at the very least, encourage "taking a razor saw to plastic with malicious intent". As I said, just curious. Shane - non IPMS member of excellent standing ;-)) PS: Could posters please put the IPMS country/region in their posts eg: IPMS(UK) etc, when referring to IPMS. Makes life easier for me (I don't have to add it) & the readers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: HGYL@aol.com Subject: Re: JUDGING Chris Langtree is exactly right in his summary of what we have learnt about IPMS/APMA so called judging - ridiculous. Why bother to build a model if it is not an accurate representation of the prototype ? And what on earth is the point of the judge inspecting to see if the underneath of deck overhangs are painted if the thing is hopelessly inaccurate anyway ? I, too, am glad I am not part of it. If we are going to put in all the time we do into building a model of a ship it is just as easy to make it an accurate model than not; in fact, probably more so. These days getting information on any particular ship has probably never been easier so there is no excuse for building inaccurate models. As for not taking accuracy into account in judging a model in a competition, well, I really have never heard of anything more ludicrous. I thought this list was about building model ships. In his introduction to his book "Shipbuilding in Miniature", Donald McNarry describes a miniature ship as "... having perfectly finished paintwork, correctly plated hulls with portholes cut through the plating ... , decks planked to scale of separate planks ..., rigging obeying its own small scale law of gravity." For those of you who are unfamiliar with Mr. McNarry's work I would urge you to get hold of his books and the articles written by him in Model Shipwright over the years and get some inspiration. That is the kind of standard to strive for, not what it is becoming apparent the IPMS judging standards call for. Mcnarry's thoughts on research are masterful, as is the approach taken by Malcolm Darch. If you can get hold of a copy of his book "Modelling Maritime History", read how Malcolm Darch went about getting information to build an accurate model of the early 20th century tramp steamer "Chelford" and then try saying that you can't find the information you need. As for judges saying that they don't have time to review an information file submitted with a model, perhaps it is fairer to say they don't have the inclination to do so. And if model kits are inaccurate to begin with, if the modeller wants to build a model from that particular kit then it is part of the modeller's task to make the necessary corrections so that the final model is accurate. I have gone on at some length but I feel the subject is important. Harold Lincoln Hi Harold, I must respectfully disagree with your view. The purpose of any hobby is to have fun. If you like to build your kits out of the box, with all the inaccuracies there may be, so be it. If you would prefer to make as an exact replica as you can, that's fine as well. If we say we "must" build accurate models in order to be a ship modeller then we impose standards of elitism, in what afterall is a hobby. I sure as hell would fail this test, but it bothers me not one whit. I build for my own enjoyment & not for anyone else's expectations of what ship modelling is all about. Shane VP APMA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: CC's request Hi All, Re: Caroline's posting last night: >> For the first of these, you have a choice. Bangor Class minesweeper, Algerine Class minesweeper, or Short Foc'sle Flower Class. To save taking up unneccessary space on SMML, please cast your votes direct to us, otherwise I will make the decision, and then you'll be sorry! << Not wishing to sway anyone's opinion (not much!) I recommend the vote go to the two minesweeper classes. We have a waterline, short Foc'sle Flower from Clipper models which is a really good model. There are NO Bangor or Algerines in 1:700 anywhere! All votes to CC please...... or 'you'll be sorry' !!!!!!!! ...and Brian..........Bless Ya! Keep taking the medicine! Regards, Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo, tena he tao kupa kaore e taea te karo......(Te Reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Al Superczynski Subject: Re: FS595a chips >> Someone has asked me how to acquire said document so can anyone give me an address and vague idea of price please? << Check http://www.ipmsusa.org/FS595Purchase.html . Current prices listed for the fan deck are $35.00 U.S. and $43.75 foreign. HTH, Al http://www.up-link.net/~modeleral -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Summers,David" Subject: Hasagawa 1/450 Akagi I'm about 95% complete with my 1/450 Akagi; it's nice to have a larger scale model of the famous ship. I found the monograph "Monografie Morskie: Akagi" (AJ Press) to be an excellent resource, with painting references for both the Pearl Harbor attack and Midway operation, plus lots of line drawings--including full 1/400 lines--both sides, front, and deck. Pacific Front Hobbies had copies within the past year. Text is in polish, but lots of great pix & drawings! To my eyes, the hull bulge on the model is correct. On my model, I replaced the guns, masts, deck supports with brass tubing and scavenged pieces from various etched sets. I cut off the wierd "stick" landing gear on the A6M2s and replaced them with scavenged etched brass landing gear. I thought the aircraft were a real plus in the kit. The most glaring inaccuracy is the foredeck--the model doesn't even remotely resemble the line drawing on p28 of the reference. Fortunately, foredecks are easy--sand the whole thing off and use various bits of chain, etc. in the correct locations. The model has 3 large lifeboats, midship, one port; 2 stbd. The actual ship apparently had two smaller boats on each side, plus one more on the foredeck. The Akagi had flightdeck windscreens made of large metal plates that lifted up and back--another good use for "spare" photoetch parts. I don't know what's under those plates on the actual ship; probably some kind of hydrolic equipment--the model may not be that inaccurate in that area! ...Which brings me to my input on the Injection vs. Resin debate: from the modeler point of view, I don't see a lot of difference between the two media. You use different glues, but I've been using superglue on Polystyrene for a long time--especially small already-painted details. You're going to use photoetch railings etc. on both resin & injection (does anyone actually USE those awful plastic railings in the Heller kits?) I don't see a lot of difference between a finely made resin kit (say, WSW Lutzow) and a finely made injection kit (say, Tamiya's Hood)--both are jewels! On the other hand, there are some real dogs, both in resin and injection. Yes, there are resin overfills to remove, but there are also flashes and bumps and dents that are harder to correct on injection surfaces. What takes the most time in any ship model is correcting major inaccuracies--which are far more common in injection kits. When you consider time spent, which do you want? accurate resin kit which needs little basic correction, or an injection kit which may be cheaper initially, but requires hundreds of hours of major surgery! --Time is money! Unfortunately, many injection kits are built as toys for the mass market--complete with spinning propellers and wheels on the bottom. On the other hand, a resin kit is usually built for accuracy. However, I notice many resin kit reviews mention simplicity as if it were a virtue. "Kit can be built in a day" "Tripod mast comes already complete" -- It's so easy to add masts, vents, and exhausts using tubing, I wish resin molders didn't spend so much time working those items into their molds--I end up cutting them off and replacing them anyway. A separate piece on an injection kit would be accepted--why not on a resin kit? Does it matter that it's brass instead of plastic? An example: anchor chain on the foredeck. Why mold it in? Fine chain is available from numerous sources. Stick some in the kit, with a pattern for placement. Less time for the molder, less time for the modeler with a better outcome. Molders shouldn't spend hours molding hatch covers onto the superstructure--how about some holes (so the hatches can be left open) with photoetch covers? Torpedo net booms are easy to cut out of wire or rod--don't mold them onto the hull! My advice to resin kit manufacturers: you're not making a toy! The primary goal is accuracy, not simplicity. MORE parts is good! Brass tubing makes the best pipe and gun barrels, not any kind of plastic/resin/white metal no matter how hard you try. David Summers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: German WWII Cruisers >> Still on the subject of decks, I was noticing that on about page 90 in Preston's Cruiser book, there is a color photo of the USS Savanah in Algiers in 1943. The camo is MS22, but there is some evidence, to my eyes, that at least the forecastle deck, was natural wood, ie., no deck blue stain. Any other opinions? << They must have been at sea for quite awhile and weathered severely. My guess is that they would only try to paint the entire deck while in port without all those nasty waves crashing on deck and ruining the paint job. John R. Sheridan What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 Last last place on earth I would look for the Lumber Cartel(tm) is http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: Great Book Series >> Charlestown Navy Yard (this is Boston, not Charleston) Brooklyn Navy Yard << I have this book and I highy recommend it to anyone who loves to see the inner workings of a Shipyard. John R. Sheridan What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 Last last place on earth I would look for the Lumber Cartel(tm) is http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: Judging colors >> There has been some discussion about the accuracy of colors in IPMS (USA) competition. I want this to be clear. We do not judge color. As long as it's close, we have to move on. << But what if the model is painted *wrong* ? Example: A BF-109 is painted with a splinter paint scheme comprised of the colors Blue and Gray instead of Green & Gray. Or: A BF-109 is painted with a splinter paint scheme comprised of the colors Green & Gray on the topside and solid Green paint scheme on the underside. John R. Sheridan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: Museum Ships >> Just goes to show what an enormous effort must go into preserving and maintaining a museum ship, and the struggle for funds they must put up with. I suppose, too, that after seeing Kidd in Baton Rouge anything else would be a let-down. Next year we hope to take in HMCS Sackville in Halifax, Nova Scotia. << On your way to the Sackville, I'm sure you will stop at the USS Salem and visit us! By next year she will be in her new spiffy paint job with a clean hull! John R. Sheridan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: ogilvietv@webtv.net (Donna Ogilvie) Subject: Re: Arleigh Burkes Dear Shane: There are two other kits of the Burke in 1/350,both by BWN, one is the Churchhill and the other I believe is the Burke. Note I would not recommend dealing with them direct as I have had some great difficulty with them in the past. That said the kits are nice,just buy them from a reputable shop that will make exchanges or take returns if there are parts missing or damaged.,and inventory very carefully before you begin. Best Wishes Greg Ogilvie Thanks Greg. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: ogilvietv@webtv.net (Donna Ogilvie) Subject: Re: RN Camouflage I just wanted to thank everyone who replied on my request for help on the HMS Decoy and the HMS Ledbury camouflage Schemes. Greg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "LAMKEEL" Subject: Any SMMLie's in Gibraltar? Hi. I'm having a 7 day break in Gib. acting as "minder" for my aunt. I would be pleased to meet any fellow SMMLie persons for a chat and/or dram. (My treat). We fly in pm 19th and will be staying at the Bristol Hotel (Tel 00 350 76800) (I'm informed). Please give me a call. I'm travelling under my real name of Hugh, my middle name John is the one I write under. Yours "aye" John Lambert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com Subject: German Ship Names on Hulls Hello Everyone. I was wondering if anyone had a good source of reference as to whether or not German WW2 Capital ships had their names or any other identifying marks on their hulls. I have been looking at photos of Graf Spee and Admiral Scheer and there seems to be nothing that distinguishes one from the other. Any help would be much appreciated. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Reynaga, Tim@EDD" Subject: Admiral Scheer 1940 I recently obtained the Heller Admiral Scheer, which looks to be a fairly good kit. Unfortunately, I do not have much in the way of references for Kriegsmarine ships. Would anyone out there happen to have good line drawings showing her configuration immediately after her initial 1940 refit? I know the kit is a mix of characteristics from different points in her career. I wanted to correctly depict her as she appeared right after that first refit when she wore the horizontal two-tone gray scheme. Thanks! Tim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Joseph Poutre Subject: Re: Museum Ships >> Last Saturday my wife and I were vacationing in Charleston, South Carolina. Took the boat ride out to Fort Sumter and after that drove to Patriot's Point. (Much deleted) For whatever reason, the displays were a lot less impressive than I remembered them. I had especially wanted to see the Battleship Room and Cruiser Room, but neither was very interesting. Few of the models onboard were particularly impressive and most were really pretty crude and inaccurate. One exception was a phenomenal 1/96 scale light cruiser Atlanta by John Ficklin, who also designed the 1/350 kit for Gulfsteam Models (it's down in the basement closet with so many others). << If you (or any SMMLies) live close enough, offer to rebuild or replace some of the models. It gives you a purpose beyond personal enjoyment or prizes (_not_ that those are bad) and helps the museum better educate and inform. It also give you plenty of new ideas to expand your modelling horizons - that's how I ended up building a resin helo and a seaplane, for display at the USS New Jersey when she's ready. Even better, give some of your time to help maintain the ship herself. Or set up a model ship shop on board, and do your building in public - be an example to get more kids (and adults) interested in our hobby. >> Just goes to show what an enormous effort must go into preserving and maintaining a museum ship, and the struggle for funds they must put up with. << For specific numbers, I offer the current funding for the USS New Jersey: $2 million for the tow to Philly $6 million budgeted for fix up and site preparation, including: Around $1-2 million for an on-shore center $2.9 million for a pier, if she goes to Camden $1.5 million to replace the teak deck (possibly) Handicapped access, fire protection, dredging, shore power, etc. $8 million raised by the Battleship Foundation for operating expenses Around $3 million a year to run Staff, power, insurance, surprises These are just estimates, but they give you an idea how expensive it is to run a big ship museum. And the numbers don't go down that much for a smaller ship. And I'll bet they go up a lot for the carrier museums that have aircraft maintenance as well. Joseph Poutre Co-webmaster, Battleship New Jersey Historical Museum Society http://www.bb62museum.org/ Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: JohnVCP@aol.com Subject: Re: Japanese spelling, etc. A message for: Yohan Fernando Question: Were can one find a source for determining the proper pronunciation of Japanese ships' names? Growing up during the "big one" (WW2) I learned (?) to pronounce Japanese ship names from listening to the the radio and the good old newsreels. I think we (read: Americans) have a tendency to pronounce these names as if they were English; hence it is incorrect. Having collected 1:1200 and 1:1250 warship models since 194, I have quite a few and the number of reference books takes up two bookcases - but no where can I find a pronunciation guide. HELP!!!! John Heasel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Joseph Poutre Subject: 1/700 DD and APD models What models are out there in 1/700 of DD assault transport conversions and DDs that carried seaplanes? Or conversions for existing models? Thanks! Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: BEN8800@aol.com Subject: Tamaiya 1/350 Enterprise CVN65 I put it away for a while but have all the notes on the colors for this model. Now, I am ready to do some painting. Al Ross I believe said that for the Haze Gray I could use Floquil Primer. I have plenty of this on hand. I would like to reconfirm from you guys that Floquil Gray Primer is an adequate color for this model. Also, Al suggested that the bottom color could be Floquils Model Railroat paint Red Oxide. Would like some comments on this also. I would just as soon stick with Floquil or Humbrol paints - no acrylics please - as I have tons of these on hand. So any comments you offer please stick with these brands. Will appreciate your comments. Second item - Are all the sponson decks a darker gray than the basic hull. From notes I have this is true except for the Island which had decks same color as hull sides. Comments? Ben Lankford Vienna, VA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Robert OConnor Subject: A. Burke kits Shane, The only other Burke kit I know of in 1/700 scale is the Jim Shirley kit, now difficult to find. I have two in boxes and have built one which went to Jim Shirley's collection! It's an ok kit-rather simple and straightforward. Resin's good, but replace the pewter parts w/ Skywave modern USN parts.Don't know if JSP ever mass produced the kit-I got mine from the company, as I live close by and am good pals w/ Jim.Too bad he let the ship line die-had some great plans on the horizon. JAG picked up some of the planned projects, and may still end up with the JSP masters. Hope they end up w/ the Oriskany and Midway... Let me know if you're interested in one of these Burkes-I'll probably build only one more unless I get the urge to do a dockyard dio... Cheers from sunny Florida, and keep up the good work,love the forum!!! Bob O'Connor Hi Bob, Thanks for the info. I'm not actually after one, just some info to finish of this article with, but thanks for the offer anyway. Umm, a dockyard dio - go for it ;-)) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: bruce.burden@compaq.com Subject: Re: Judging >> 1. You can remove glass cases thereby damaging someones model and if the << No, the modeller removes the cover, not the judges. >> builder doesn't want to do this you don't judge their entry. << Correct. Its called: If you don't like the rules: 1. Don't play the game, - or - 2. Work to change them. >> 2. You cannot mark down an entry if it is inaccurate and incorrect in some details. << Are you an expert is ALL things nautical? Do you know everything about everything? No? Then why do you want to penalize things you know about, and not penalize things you are clueless about? Does that strike you as _fair_? Example: Worlds greatest expert on all things Iowa class: "Oh man, these Iowa gun tubes are .01mm oversize, the gun tubs are .1mm too thick and the bridge doesn't have the proper 11.0945mm radius to it. What a PEICE OF CRAP!" Judge then goes on to judge a PRC missle frigate: "Duh, what's this..." If you can't be fair, what it is the point of judging the entries? What is the point of entering the contest, if you know the models won't be judged fairly? >> What kind of morons devised these rules? Actually I know the answer - RIVET COUNTERS!. << How could rivet counters have devised the scheme, when the judges are not supposed to take into consideration "accuracy"? That is the opposite of rivet counters, who live to tell you how inaccurate your model is... >> I'm just glad I don't have anything to do with this ridiculous scene. << Given your misconceptions/misunderstandings, I can understand why. Perhaps with an open minded inquiry without any preconceived ideas/attitudes would allow you to see that the system works fairly well, and the fallacies of the "judging for accuracy" philosophy. Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Wahoo >> A sub question! I'm surprised Tom D. hasn't jumped on this one yet! 8^>> << I did early on, but I have been out of town for the last 5 days at a scientific conference in Washington DC and couldn't follow up. Just catchin' up on SMML...... Tom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: More on Wahoo >> Tom, we may be leading poor Dave astray. One of the most obvious differences between the E-boats and Government boats was that the Government boats had their anchor on the PORT side. E-Boats but them on the STARBOARD side. Revell's boat is an E-Boat. I've got the HR fittings, they're going to look good on the boat. I think that a smaller anchor than HR's 1/192 anchor is better, I've got a 1/350 version that fits the notch in Revell's hull nicely. << Hi Gang- Still catching up. I also use the 1:350 scale white metal anchor. As for anchor location, you're correct: Navy built boats built at Portsmouth had portside anchors, as did the Navyboats built at Mare Island (Wahoo, Tang). And then there are all those narrow free flood slots...... Tom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "Don Carner" Subject: Coming to Cincinnati Greetings! I am relocating to Cincinnati and would like to know if you have any groups or clubs/newsletters that I may subscribe to. I am coming back East from Denver and have met some terrific folks out here who do the 1/700th all the way up to 1/8th scale! I'm into my 1st resin model, 1/350th CA-38, USS San Francisco from CW in AZ. Looking foward to getting into the Floating Drydock's 1/8th plans someday! Thanks, Don Carner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: German WW II Cruisers It was a common drawback of Samek-Models that they had no simulated deck planking. Samek changed this for their newer models such as HMS York. The Samek LEIPZIG is one of the "old" style. So youwill have to engrave the deck planking (or simulate it otherwise) on the main and upper deck (American diction), resp. on the upperdeck and fo'c'sel(British designation). As for the Samek KONIGSBERG, I don't know if this kit belongs to the "old" ones, as she was the only major fighting ship of the Kriegsmarine which had no wooden deck planking but steel plating. So the deck structure of this model is (willingly or unwillingly) correct. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: USS Constitution update Chalk it up to an ill wind (assorted hurricanes in Florida) or the going astray of one's best laid plans, but Model Shipways' soon to be released USS Constitution will be delayed a bit longer. The kit's designer told me the instructions went to the printer yesterday (18 NOV). This will be a big puppy. The scale is 5/32" = 1'0" or 1:76.8, which translates to 48" long! Now let's see, where can I build an extra room on my house? Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: Douglas Bauer Subject: Gloss or flat? I'm sure this question has been asked a number of times before, but I don't recall reading the answer...were U.S. Navy ships in World War II painted with a gloss, semi-gloss, or a flat finish? I remember when I was in the Navy (1966-70) varnish was added to the Haze Gray to make it as shiny as possible. Photos of wartime vessels appear both shiny and dull. Thanks Doug Bauer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: "Foeth" Subject: Anatomy Ship Series Yamato I recieved my new Christian Schmidt catalogue, and ther might be a reprint of Skulski's book. Schmidt did comment that the publisher was experiencing financial difficulties, so it might not happen. Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Conan35@aol.com Subject: Model Expo update Model Expo, Inc. has recently added a large percentage of our ship fitting to the web, including hardware, bulk fittings, deadeyes, anchors and more. We are also continuing our low prices on Tamiya warships. Also, a large number of books on building wooden ship models and ship history books. All at: http://www.modelexpoinc.com Best Regards Rob Finley, Web Site Mgr. Model Expo, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk/ for the back issue archive. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume