Subject: SMML09/12/99VOL754 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 23:57:08 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Forrestal 2: Re: Clipping room 3: Re: "Inbox review" of "Navires & Histoire" Vol 01 4: Cats and Plastic Models 5: French Magazine 6: Re: Essex class carriers, post war 7: Re: hex punch set 8: Pearl Harbour Subs 9: 40mm Clipping Room 10: Lusitania 11: T2s 12: Hex Punch and Die Set 13: S & S Paint Chips 14: Re: Subject: Clipping Room 15: Re: Lake Champalin 16: Post War Essex's 17: Clipping Room 18: Re: White Metal/Resin Fittings & Nitpick Question about Forrestals 19: Re: Another What-if 20: Re: Iowa class fittings 21: Re: Clipping Room 22: USS Wahoo 23: "Navires & Histoire" Vol 01 24: BWN USS Massachusetts Model -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Essex Class Carriers 2: BIG NICHIMO RE-STOCK 3: New Navis/Neptun 1/1250 Models in Stock -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Forrestal The Revell Forestal is much more a better model. You will need to add a few things and change a few just to make it a little better. 1: You need to make bilgekeels. 2: the bulb at the stem needs to be flaired out, not out past the stem but out as to the sides. 3: The shaft struts need to be made into a (V) shape. The kit comes with a single pole strut which is in correct. 4: The props will need to be remade. These are some basic things to do that most ships have and Revell failed to do. One can on and on with corrections but these will get you on the right trek. On the other hand this is the better kit. Anyone else have any ideas? I'm sure we can plate this hull if we'd want to. Happy coversions, Keith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: LBart73@aol.com Subject: Re: Clipping room This is the room where the cases of 40MM ammo were broken out and loaded into the clips for the weapon. I believe there were 6 rounds per clip. If you look at a picture of a 40 MM gun tub, you can see the racks of clips lining the inside Larry B -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: "Inbox review" of "Navires & Histoire" Vol 01 Jacques sent me a copy as well and I agree with Shane. It's a fine magazine printed on top notch paper. Lots of great photos. One suggestion, how about English translation sheets inside the copies sent overseas. Koku Fan did this several times and I enjoyed the magazine so much more when I could read the captions at least. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Cats and Plastic Models >> I found a small cat curled up around the main mast, model perfectly balanced. << Reminds me of a thread a while back. Seems cats are attracted to plastic models. I think someone may have hypothesised the mold release agent may contain fish oil or something that smells real good to cats. I always liked the plasticy smell of a freshly opened model kit myself. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Malcolm N. Waite" Subject: French Magazine Shane You could be courting trouble here, any nation that would try to ban by law the use of La Weekend, will not take kindly to suggesting they translate all their publications to English!!!! To be serious I agree I tend not to buy foreign language publications because of all the information I may be missing. But then I could be just another "little islander" Regards Malcolm N. Waite Liverpool UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: JOHN A BURCH Subject: Re: Essex class carriers, post war >> Can anyone give advice on the length of time that U.S.capital ships, especially the Essex class carriers, would hve remained painted in camouflage colours after the end of the war? How long would it have been before they were painted in plain grey and would this have been likely to coincide with refits? << About two months ago I had the chance to video tape a documentary on the Turner Classic Movie channel, titled "The Secret Land", about the USN's Antarctic expedition of 1948. I just got around to screening it in response to the query. The movie is in glorious Technicolor and has extensive coverage of contemporary USN vessels that participated in the operation, including a CV, a seaplane tender, a submarine, an icebreaker, and numerous amphibious cargo ships. In addition, there are some in-port segments showing lots of other USN ships as the expedition vessels prepared for their departure to Antarctica. [Off topic, the film also has SEC NAV Forrestal, CNO Nimitz and expedition leader, ADM. Byrd, speaking at the beginning of the film. I found it very interesting that Nimitz had absolutely no trace of a Texas accent, which he is usually portrayed as having in movies like "Midway" or "In Harm's Way".] PHILIPPINE SEA (CV 47), an ESSEX Class Carrier, was used to fly off ADM. Byrd with a detachment of six, ski and JATO equipped R4D (C-47) aircraft to Little America during the expedition. There are several segments showing PHILIPPINE SEA in Norfolk; transiting the Panama Canal; and at the R4D launch point in Antarctic water. Without question she is in an overall "smoky" blue gray, which I take to be Ocean Gray. The segment in Norfolk, where she loaded her R4Ds, has her right next to an IOWA class BB, clearly in Haze Gray, as is FDR (CV 42), which is just beyond, and readily identifiable by her funnel and hull number. Most of the ships in Norfolk are in Haze Gray, but there is one nearby AKA or APA which is also in the same dark gray as PHILIPPINE SEA. PHILIPPINE SEA's flight deck shows up mostly in low angle shots in the film as a dirty dark gray, virtually the same color as the vertical surfaces. Flight deck numbers are the contemporary yellow-orange. I wasn't able to make out any dashed lines on the flight deck. Another CV in the same dark gray shows up in a segment filmed in San Diego that shows expedition participant CURRITUCK (AV 7), exercising her new rescue helo and forward helo flight deck, and taking aboard three PBMs. The CV is moored forward of CURRITUCK, so that you only see a stern view of an ESSEX Class CV with a flight deck full of dark blue, folded wing, prop aircraft. Her name is clearly visible in white letters on the large stern sponson with two, quad 40 mm mounts and director, but her name is just beyond being legible, although I can at times convince myself that it is YORKTOWN (CV 10). So in the film, of the two ESSEX Class CV that appear, both are in a color clearly other than Haze Gray, and in 1948. The launching of the R4Ds from PHILIPPINE SEA has some interesting modeling and diorama possibilities. Anyone with access to the Turner Classic Movie channel might want to be on the lookout for this film in the future. I caught about half of it when I first saw it about a year ago, and made sure I got a copy when it subsequently screened this past October. John Burch Gaithersburg, MD, USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Chris.Evenden@agso.gov.au Subject: Re: hex punch set Rusty, The Hex punch set is available from Historex agents in the UK. Chris Evenden -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Douglas_J_Martin" Subject: Pearl Harbour Subs Folks: As per the previous posting, I retired to my pit around say 0200 (08/12) (or was it the morning before!!), and as usual stuck the radio on.....Radio 5. Well the 'Professor' was interviewed about the theory of West Virginia and Oklahoma being torpedoed by an IJN mini sub, based on aerial photos showing a water geyser column against one of the BBs, and apparently 2 torpedo tracks. Due to the advances in technology, this info has been turned up after re-examination of the photos taken during the attack, I presume they were Japanese. Fascinating stuff, I wonder how much more will be made of it? Interviewee briefly described the positions where the 5 IJN subs had been found. Let the debate begin........ Douglas (Scotland) PS. DR Ballard's book on the Midway search for the Yorktown has surfaced in the UK, got a copy from Waterstones last week - saving it for an Xmas present (from me to me......) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: 40mm Clipping Room Hi Darek, I would imagine it's for putting individual 40mm shells into the ready use clips that fed the guns. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Lusitania Hi all Channel 4 are going to be showing a programme about the mystery of the Lusitania at 20.00 on Thursday. Chris Langtree The folk song, 'The Sinking of the Lusitania' is about 130 verses. This makes it one of the longest folk songs ever (another is The Lady and the Seven Wild Eyed Gypsies). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: T2s Hi Derek There's a photo of USS Cahaba (AO82) refuelling Shangri-La and Iowa in the Squadron/Signal 'Essex Class Carriers In Action'. The posts are very visible Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Tim Perry" Subject: Hex Punch and Die Set Rusty, Reheat Models make such a set, the man to contact is Mike Hollaway, Reheat Models, 1A Oak Drive, North Bradley, Nr Trowbridge, Wiltshire, United Kingdom. BA14 0SW . His phone/fax no is (United Kingdom) 01225 768964. BTW, No commercial link, but he is an old mate of mine! His range is available from some of the US specialist aircraft model, figure and AFV distributors as well, so you might try them first. I just tried ringing him for advice on this but he is out. I will try again tomorrow! Tim Perry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "John Rule" Subject: S & S Paint Chips >> Pardon my ignorance, but isn't Regia Marina Italian? If it is, are there enough available models on the market (I'm familiar with B Resnia) to justify the time and expense producing the chips? To me anyway it seem to be a no brainer. WEM alone produces enough model kits to (in my view) justify going all the way with the RN colors. << Although I have given my vote to produce the RN 3 chips first, I disagree with Rusty White w.r.t. the Regia Marina. There a fairly large number of kits now available of Italian ships of WWII and I believe it is a very worthwhile task to produce the chips for the Regia Marina. John Rule -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Edd Pflum Subject: Re: Subject: Clipping Room I wish I could think of a clever answer like "That's where the 40 mm. Gun crews got their haircuts," but I can't :) The clipping room is where the bulk 40 mm. Rounfds were loaded into clips for ready service use. Edd Pflum -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: drwells@hogpb.mt.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: Lake Champalin Charles wrote: >> I am looking for a replica of the Lake Champalin (CV-39). My Father-in-law served on the carrier during the Korean war. << I have an interest in this, since I have a long-stalled project to make CV-39 myself. There's no Essex SCB-27A kit out there that I know of. You can convert the old Revell Essex SCB-125 kit, but it's a fair amount of work, as I learned the hard way. Of course, if anyone out there has any clever ideas, I'm listening.... David R. Wells -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "sctrtrash" Subject: Post War Essex's During my early days in the Marine Corps, during our runs during boot camp, I used to see the Bunker Hill tied up over at NAS North Island. (Building the old Lindberg Wasp, etc., several times clued me into its historic significance). It was years until I knew it was the Bunker Hill, and was scrapped in 72 I believe. I know it was used by the Navy to test various ECM and Communications gear. During Viet Nam, I was on the Valley Forge, although it had been reclassed as an LPH, and given the Hull number 8. It had the single pole main mast like the later Essex's, and the bridge had been enclosed, and the twin 5" mounts had gone in favor of the three inch, (IIRC). The deck markings were all different as they were marked for Helicopter embarkation points with the ingress/egress lines painted on the decks. One think I was struck by was the narrowness of the bridge. It seemed a lot narrower than what I would have thought building the models and seeing countless WWII Naval Movies, i.e., "A Wing and a Prayer". I also saw it up close and personal when I was on the USS Sanctuary, as it passed us in the Da Nang Harbor. It was quite a sight. Mark Krumrey New Richmond WI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Ed Grune Subject: Clipping Room Darek wrote ... >> Can somebody please explain to me what's the role of the clipping room. I've been studding plans of the Indianapolis (CA 35) when I found this structure just below the bridge, named "40mm clipping room". << 40mm ammo was top fed into the guns in a clip of 4 rounds. When fired the expended casing was ejected out and down a chute to the front of the mount. I've never looked, but I imagine that the spent clip passed through the loading breech area as the next clip was slammed home. If you look at the old Victory at Sea programs you'll see one man per gun whose job was to keep the mount fed (4 men per quad mount). A quad 40mm gun crew was a choreographed team. Besides the loaders, you have your trainer, pointer, talker, assistant loaders, and ammo passers. There were 12 to 16 men per mount. If you look closely on photos of some 40mm mounts the inner face of the splinter shield is covered with ready clips. On other mounts there were no handy ready clips, they had to be passed through scuttles from -- the clipping room. The clipping room is a space between the magazine and the mount where the individual rounds are loaded into clips ready for firing. Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: drwells@hogpb.mt.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: White Metal/Resin Fittings & Nitpick Question about Forrestals John wrote: >> Does anyone know of white metal or resin fittings in the "box" scales to replace those 1/542, 1/482, 1/278 etc...guns and other small parts? Do any of the ones on the market presently work? << No, but if you find them, let me know! >> Nitpick Dept: Does anyone know off hand which hull is more accurate for the Forrestal Class; Revell's or the old Aurora kit. I recently acquired an Aurora Independence kit in the 60's configuration and it has L-shaped "fairings" to mount the props on where the Revell hull has the usual shafts and props. Some of us tend to overlook these very obvious items and I can't believe with all of the reference material I have, I can't come up with the answer to this one!!!! << The Revell is correct, the Aurora is not. In its day, the old Revell kit was arguably the best naval ship kit on the market. The only work required below the waterline is the bulb bow. Above the waterline, well, that's another story. The '50s version is pretty close, (depending on what ship you want to build) but the '80s version needs some work. David R. Wells -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Re: Another What-if I forgot to mention another what-if I did: USS Hayler, DD997, as the original air-capable Spru-boat design. For a hurry up job, she turned out pretty good. Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "David Mullins" Subject: Re: Iowa class fittings Hi! I'm getting geared up for my first ship project in too many years (finally tired of airplanes & trains!). I'm trying to locate a running gear supplier in the UK. Based on an article in SSM (Aug-Sept 93), a company named E. Radestock carries a running gear set for the Sterling Missouri, but no address was listed. Can anyone in tne UK help? Also, I'm hunting the H&R main turrets for this class in 1/192 scale (listed as discontinued). Any leads? Thanks in advance, David Mullins Amarillo, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: Clipping Room A small enclosure where the gunnery department spent long hours fitting 40-mm rounds onto 4-round clips. When you look at a 40-mm gun tub and see the usual two rings holding clips, you get a good idea of the time involved in filling the clips. I recall seeing BUNKER HILL and others at Bremerton in the late 1940s and early 1950s. (BUNKER HILL was closest to the ferry terminal). They were all in Haze Gray. And, in the 1940s and 1950s, the maintenance budget for the mothball fleet had enough money to buy paint regularly, because every time I saw them (on semi-annual vacations from Montana) they were freshly painted. Same goes for the many CVEs moored at Tacoma, (CVE-105 was most prominent). Eugene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Robert & Rose Brown Subject: USS Wahoo All those posts a few weeks back regarding Wahoo's configuration and colours made me go back and re-read Dick O'Kane's book. In the book, O'Kane states that Wahoo was a victim of a circular run on her last patrol, but wasn't sunk. Morton then decided to bring the sub back to Pearl so the remaining torpedoes could be analyzed, which would have saved Tang and Tullibee, among others. She managed to struggle back to La Perouse strait and was then destroyed. Sounds pretty far-fetched to me. Does anybody know where this theory came from? Is it corroborated anywheres? None of the other literature I have on US Submarines (and it's extensive) mention anything about this possibility. I hold both Morton and O'Kane in very high esteem, and I figure O'Kane would certainly know what he's talking about, but nothing in the book indicates where this theory originates. George Grider's book puts Wahoo's loss down to the change of wardroom personnel who wouldn't know how to talk Morton out of any crazy ideas. I also recall reading somewheres that Morton was a sick man by the time of Wahoo's last patrol. Anyways, any enlightenment would be appreciated. Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Jeffrey Roberts" Subject: "Navires & Histoire" Vol 01 Where can we order copies of this new journal? Is it possible to obtain a subscription overseas? The list of articles is quite interesting...I'd especially be interested in the article on the 1939 Dutch Navy... Best wishes, Jeffrey Roberts North Hollywood, California, USA Hi Jeffery, Try the following email & snail mail addresses: Naviries & Histoire 29 rue Paul Bert 62230, Outreau mailto:lela.presse@wanadoo.fr My apologies for omitting this info last night. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: BWN USS Massachusetts Model FYI, For those who are building, or plan to build Blue Water Navy's USS Massachusetts model, my shots of the completed kit are now online at the WARSHIP website. The location is: http://warship.simplenet.com/gallery.htm John R. Sheridan What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 Last last place on earth I would look for the Lumber Cartel(tm) is http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Essex Class Carriers We carry a 21" WWII & Mod. Essex Carriers with Decal Sheets. To build all of them. Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Bill Gruner Subject: BIG NICHIMO RE-STOCK We will be receiving a very large re-stock on Nichimo plastic ship & sub kits this week: 1/200 Kagero & Shiranui IJN DDs....$75.00 1/200 Akizuki & Hatsuzuki IJN DDs...$89.00 1/200 I-19 IJN Sub....$37.00 1/500 Ise, Hyuga, Nagato and Mutsu...$28.00 1/500 Atago, Maya, Chokai and Takao....$22.00 1/500 Nachi, Haguro, Ashigara & Myoko....$24.00 1/500 Enterprise CVN-65....$110.00 Also will have 1/500 IJN carriers... Thanks, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Michael Morse Subject: New Navis/Neptun 1/1250 Models in Stock I have the following new Navis/Neptun 1/1250 models in stock: Navis 1/1250 W.W. I Models: 2N...KONIG 1914...$49.00 24AN...DERFFLINGER 1914...$55.00 27N...VON DER TANN 1910...$49.00 100N...REVENGE 1916...$49.00 122N...RENOWN 1916...$69.00 307...UTAH 1911...$30.00 402...PARIS 1912...$30.00 701...VIRIBUS UNITIS 1912...$35.00 Neptun 1/1250 W.W. II models: 1217...AKAGI...$99.00 1315...RANGER...$99.00 1433...COLBERT...$49.00 1502...CAIO DULIO...$55.00 1503...CONTE DI CAVOUR...$55.00 1544...B. COLLEONI...$40.00 1550...A. REGOLO...$35.00 T1001...TIRPITZ W/ CAMO...$82.50 T1501...LITTORIO W/ CAMO...$82.50 Mastercard, Visa, Discover accepted. You can either email your order or phone 561-642-0026. Many others in stock as well. Many thanks and happy holidays, Mike Morse East Coast Miniatures -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume