Subject: SMML13/12/99VOL758 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 00:53:32 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Navy Gray 2: Re: 3 questions 3: Re: Decal sheets 4: Re: Hornet's Compliment, June 1942 5: Hornet's aircraft complement 6: Re: Hornet at Midway 7: Re: Decals (and Lindberg Yorktown) 8: "Weathering" Hull Bottoms 9: Re: HORNET's Air Group/3 questions 10: Cutting Steel Rod 11: HAG 12: Re: PANAY 13: What do they do at sea? 14: Re: Making Decals 15: Re: Hornet, USN carriers 16: Re: Lake Champlain 17: Re: 3 questions 18: Re: HORNET'S COMPLIMENT 19: Re: cutting steel rod -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 1/500 Carrier Decals 2: Books for sale: attention Canadian SMMLies -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Navy Gray While serving on a Navy base, I once ridiculed the navy gray rocks lining the path I was walking on. A nearby bo'sun's mate cast a balefull eye in my direction and growled, "If it ain't movin', paint it!" That appeared to be a dictum passed on for generations. I made sure I didn't stand too still when the paint buckets were out. Unfortunately, I never learned the FS number, but the Gunze paint "Dark Gray (1)" H-82, captioned "U.S. Naval Vessels," is very close -- close enough for my post-WW II ships. I'm sure there are other opinions. Marc Flake Tarrant County Texas (Where we finally got enough rain that outdoor burning is no longer a hazard.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: 3 questions Answer to number 1: After I cut brass rod, I use a Dremel tool to grind the end flat. Use eye protection. Marc Flake -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Decal sheets >> I need a source of decal sheets and any advice on a suitable PC program for creation. << Micro mark advertises 8.5"x 11" decal paper and Walthers company makes the same size in a five sheet pack. You can find Walthers products in any railroad hobby shop. For computer program advice, contact Duane Fowler (dlfowler@uscg.net) He produces marvelous decals with his Alps printer for Toms Modelworks. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Charles Jarvis Subject: Re: Hornet's Compliment, June 1942 Hi: Hornet's compliment of aircraft at the time of Midway was Air Group 8, consisting of Fighting 8 (15 F4F Wildcats), Bombing 8 (15 SBD Dauntlesses), Scouting 8 (15 SBD Dauntlesses) and Torpedo 8 (15 TBD Devastators). There may well have been several spares of all types. Torpedo 8 was about to receive the new TBF's, but arrived too late to leave Pearl Harbor with Hornet. Several of them flew out to Midway and attacked the Japanese fleet from there. Probably the best source of Midway info would be "Incredible Victory" by Walter Lord. Good luck and happy building. By the way, is there a good source of the 1.1" AA guns used through 1942? Thanks. Charlie Jarvis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: Hornet's aircraft complement According to Terz., at Midway Hornet had Air Group 8, which consisted of VF-8 "Fighting 8" (27 F4F-4s), VB-8 "Bombing 8" (19 SBD-2/3), VT-8 "Torpedo 8" (15 TBD-1), VS-8 "Scouting 8" (18 SBD-1/2/3). So 79 aircraft total consisting of Wildcats, Dauntlesses and Devastators. Incidentally, this is 5 more Dauntlesses and 9 more Wildcats than she carried during the Doolittle Raid - I suspect this represents spare aircraft that were not carried to save space for the B-25s, but I do not know for sure. Enterprise's air group at Midway and on the Doolittle raid were almost identical to Hornet at Midway. Hope this helps, Michael Smith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: Hornet at Midway VF-8 F4F-4 Wildcats VB-8 SBD Dauntless VS-8 SBD Dauntless VT-8 TBD Devastator Eugene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Edd Pflum Subject: Re: Decals (and Lindberg Yorktown) For a source of clear decal paper try Tango Papa at http://www.tangopapadecals.com/ For creating the art, a drawing (vector graphics), not painting (bitmap graphics) program is best. I use an old version of Corel Draw. You can usually pickup earlier versions for cheap at used software stores. For decals, not a lot of the latest features are needed. Re the Lindberg Yorktown: This definitely an Essex class carrier. The kit dates back to the fifties, so asking exactly which ship it portrays meaningless. In those days close was good enough, and scales were chosen to fit the box! (Though, to be fair, Lindberg was better than most at sticking to standard scales.) Happy Modeling, Edd Pflum -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Alan Simon Subject: "Weathering" Hull Bottoms How does one "weather" boot topping and hull bottom coated with anti-fouling red paint? Oily smears? Barnacles? Subject is late WWII square bridge Fletcher Class DD in faded & weathered Ms. 21 topside. Thanks for your help. Alan Simon Atlanta, Ga. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: HORNET's Air Group/3 questions Besides the aforementioned Wildcats and Devastators, HORNET also carried Dauntlesses at Midway. Cutting steel rod: use an abrasive cutting wheel in a Dremel or similar motor tool to get a smooth, square, unpinched cut. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: John Clements Subject: Cutting Steel Rod >> Cutting steel rod (for more in-scale gunbarrels) results in pinched ends. How do you cut rod to get smooth, perpendicular ends? << I'm sure everyone has their own favourite method; mine is to use side cutters, which does leave a pinched end, and then file it smooth. Sometimes I use a file to cut the rod but that still needs the end cleaning off. Hope that helps. John Clements -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "kdurling:First kdurling:Last" Subject: HAG >> A friend is after information on what aircraft were on/in the Hornet at Midway. So far he is led to believe there were Devastators and Wildcats..(?) << As many will I'm sure point out, there were also two squadrons of Dauntlesses (SBD-3s) - Bombing Six (VB-8) and Scouting Six (VS-8). Ken Durling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: PANAY >> A while back there was a short string on the subject kit. I have just finished one, and while I did do a bit of extra work and detailing, the kit produces a FANTASTIC model. I have yet to make a model "river" for it to live in and will start that today. << >> How about posting some photos!! << Bradford, Will do as soon as I get it done. Work will slow down a bit now getting ready for the Holidays but I hope to complete it soon. Cheers, Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: What do they do at sea? I don't know if there are any prizes for silliest questions, but if there were, this would be a candidate. I'm thinking of, no I'm going to, include some photetched figures to my 1:350 Yamato (thanks to Jim Baumann and Peter Hall for letting their models show the way, be the light at the end of the tunnel, the North Star of ship models, etc..), and a ship that size will need at least 100 figures to make it look inhabitated, but not crowded. There's no way I'll include the entire crew, just enough to create a bit of "life" and convey a sense of scale to the viewers. I want these figures to do something, rather than just being human shapes put there for no apparent reason, and my question to you all is: What did Japanese sailors do while the ship was at sea? Sushi break? Shark fishing? Martial arts practice? Preparing or repairing aircraft? Cleaning weapons? BTW, I am building Yamato after her 1944 refit. All suggestions welcome. Jens PS: One club night, someone mentioned that video with Cher dancing on the deck of one of the US battleships....now, isn't that an interesting idea for a diorama? Does anybody know what battleship that was? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: mprager@juno.com Subject: Re: Making Decals >> I need a source of decal sheets and any advice on a suitable PC program for creation. Can anyone help this guy out? >> Check out the November 1999 Fine Scale Modeler. It has an excellent article that covers some software, hardware, and how-to's. The January 1998 issue also had an article. Matt Prager -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Hornet, USN carriers Hi guys For Simon Wolf the USS Hornet CV-8 carried the F4F Wildcat fighter, The SBD Dauntless dive bomber for it's bombing and scout squadrons and the TDB Devastator torpedo bomber. For Roger Clemens the kit of the Yorktown was sold with CV-5 decals in the 70's because Revell had issued the Yorktown class carriers (Yorktown,Enterprise,and Hornet) so they issued the Boxer CV-21 as the Enterprise as well with CV-6 decals. CV-22 was the USS Independence CV-22 actually it was given the designation CVL "L" meant light fleet carrier as CV meant fleet carrier. I had one of the Enterprise from Revell and Lindberg in 1973-5 I think. The Boxer was from Lindberg also started out as Wasp CV-18 and TICONDEROGA CV-14 in the 50's. Ah hey Franz Aigner try contacting the Floating dry-dock they carry camo sheets. Gotta go it's dinner time. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Lake Champlain Michael Smith's suggestions on how to make a 50's era Lake Champlain sound like good ideas. Granted, I'm not an Essex fan, but here are a few things I thought of while reading his post. If my memory serves me right, the Champ was a long hulled Essex cl ship, so if you go the 1:700 WWII era conversion routine, make sure you get the apporipriate ship to start with. Specifically, the Essex, Yorktown, Intrepid, Hornet, Franklin, Lexington, Bennington, Wasp, Bunker Hill, and Bon Homme Richard were all short hull Essexes. That said, the Ticonderoga (as Michael mentioned) would be a good kit to start with. However, the Lindberg Yorktown (with Revell island parts) wouldn't produce an accurate representation of the Champ. If you're only looking for an approximation, that's as legit of an idea as any. It depends on what you're looking for, and how nit-picky you want to be in these regards. I'll be the first admit though, that's a unique way of tackling the problem (and innovative to boot). I have to take my hat off to Michael for coming up with that idea. . The thought that occurred to me in reading this though is that you might see if you can make friends with someone who has an unbuilt JSP 1:700 Orkisany kit and see if you can offer them some sorta swap in exchange for them casting you a resin/epoxy copy of the essential island parts. The 1:700 conversion seems to offer the most potential here since I believe 1:700 50's & 60's era planes like those used on the Champ are more plentiful that 1:500 scale planes from that time. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: 3 questions Franz... This may seem too simplistic of an answer, but this is the first things that came to mind in regards to how to avoid pinched ends when cutting steel rod for gun barrels... 1) Try cutting them with a saw instead of clippers. If this isn't practical, then try... 2) Cut them a longer than needed and sand/file off the pinched end resulting from the cut. These are two bits of advise that were given to me for cutting brass tubing for masts and gun barrels. I don't see why they wouldn't work for steel or brass rod as well. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: James Corley Subject: Re: HORNET'S COMPLIMENT >> A friend is after information on what aircraft were on/in the Hornet at Midway. So far he is led to believe there were Devastators and Wildcats..(?) << Why be puzzled? On the morning of June 4, 1942 HORNET had the following compliment of aircraft: These figures come from "A Glorious Pager inOur History" by C ressman & Ewing: VF-8 27 F4F-4 Wildcats VB-8 15 SBD-3 Dauntless VS-8 18 SBD-3 Dauntless VT-8 15 TBD-1 Devastator. CHAG 1 SBD-3 Dauntless These figures come from Osprey's "Classic Battles - Midway 1942" : VF-8 27 F4F-4 Wildcats VB-8 19 SBD-2/3 Dauntless VS-8 19 SBD-1/2/3 Dauntless VT-8 15 TBD-1 Devastator [I doubt the claim of an SBD-1 being assigned to Scouting 8. Also no CHAG plane] Either way, you could safely include up to 27 Wildcats, 34 Dauntlesses and 15 Devastators for a pre-battle pose. For post battle, include no TBDs (I've heard stories of many Yorktown planes recovering aboard, including TBDs, but have never seen the numbers in print) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: cutting steel rod >> Here are three questions that are worrying my modellers brain: 1) Cutting steel rod (for more in-scale gunbarrels) results in pinched ends. How do you cut rod to get smooth, perpendicular ends? << What you want is a flush cutter - but that said, you will also probably ruin it in short order, particularly if you are using music wire. A better alternative, and the one I use is to use a diamond disk in a dremel. Diamond cutoff disks are frequently found on Ebay. You could also use a reinforced resin cutoff or with care a regular cutoff wheel. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: 1/500 Carrier Decals We now have Names, Deck & Island numbers for all the 1/500 scale US Carriers. Double names when you build the Essex angled deck carriers. Good for WWII & Modern Essex, Forrestall and Nimitz Carriers. Look for picture on "Decal" page at our site two sheets $6.00 Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Books for sale: attention Canadian SMMLies Hello, fellow Maple Leafs, Canucks, Flames, Senators etc. :-p I have two new copies, each, of the Warship Perspectives Atlanta Class Cruisers and Fletcher, Sumner, Gearing DD books. $40 each, that includes shipping. I will take a personal cheque. Contact me off list if interested. Happy modeling. Keith Butterley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume