Subject SMML22/12/99VOL767 Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 00:02:38 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: New Jersey with hangar deck 2: Re: Otaki, Revell vs. Tamiya 3: USS Iowa 4: PA Class Armored Cruisers 5: Y2K SMML Meeting 6: Revell/Lifelike Iowa 7: West Virginia ACR 5 8: Re: Which kit? 9: Re: Angle Deck Essex 10: Re: 1/350 Revell (Life-like) Iowa 11: Re: SMML gathering 12: Re: Revell 1/72 Flower Class Corvette 13: Modified N.J. 14: Blast bags & muzzle covers 15: State ships 16: ARII Musashi 17: Re: Skywave Z-37 Reference Material 18: Iowa class models, "Harrier carrier" conversions of Iowas 19: NANUCHKA Class Corvette 20: Re: fun recycling 21: Maritime museum displays 22: Buckley DE book 23: Enterprise at Midway 24: Bofors shields 25: Re: UK TV 26: Save USS Oriskany 27: JSP Oriskany Photos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: PACIFIC FRONT - NEW DECEMBER UPDATE 2: HELLER DAPHNE' SS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Rod Dauteuil Subject: Re: New Jersey with hangar deck >> I saw a model some time back that was designed to depict a theoretical hangar deck with "ski slopes" for Harriers. I know the model was the New Jersey and I believe the scale was 1/900. For that reason alone I didn't buy the kit. I am seriously considering converting the 1/350 Tamiya New Jersey to this hypothetical variant. It's super cool looking with the hangar deck covering the aft capital gun mount and the ski slopes pointing forward. Does anyone out there have that model? I don't care if it's built or not, as long as it's all there so I can scale it. Drawings would be even better, but I'm not holding my breath. << The ship you're looking for was from Nichimo, and I believe it was called "New Jersey Faces II". It was 1/900 scale. Perhaps you can find it on Ebay or another auction????? Rod. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: Otaki, Revell vs. Tamiya I have built the Otaki Mo, The Revell New Jersey and the Tamiya MO & NJ. Personaly I would build the Tamiya kit any day over the Revell or Otaki kits. Tamiya is much more detailed and they are overall the better model. However, you must finish it with the Gold Medal photoetching kit. This is a must if you want a superb outcome. I've built six of these kits and have sold all but one, The Revell sits on my shelf and collects dust and the Otaki MO is somewhere at the bottom of a lake over 20 years ago. And this is only my personal opinion and we all know what opinions are like! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: David_L._Miller@ccmail.wiu.edu Subject: USS Iowa This is my first posting to the list. I have ordered a 1/800 ARII model of the USS Iowa. What color would you recommend painting the deck? At that scale, I think it would be an off-white, rather than a "wood-tan color". I have also heard that the deck appeared darker, or more of a teak color when wet. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Dave Miller Macomb Illinois -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Suvoroff@aol.com Subject: PA Class Armored Cruisers I don't know of any sources for large-scale plans, but there are some drawings and photographs in _US Armored Cruisers_ by Ivan Musicant. Yours, James D. Gray -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: Y2K SMML Meeting Hello Listmembers, Yes, the Y2K Meeting is still on, Time has been at a premium for us here. First the Salem had to be made ready for drydocking with just two weeks notice, that accomplished my significant other announced we were moving. Now that is completed and we are looking at the Christmas season. The local listmembers are going to be meeting to firm up our plans on January 8. A posting will be made by the next day. John Snyder wrote: >> Would someone please remind me of the dates in May, so that I can block them out on my calendar and start making some plans? << The planned dates are May 5/6/7, 2000. John Frohock USNSM USS Salem Model Dept. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "sctrtrash" Subject: Revell/Lifelike Iowa The Revell/Lifelike Iowa class is a little larger than 1/350. I have a Revell one that I bought back in the early 80's. I started building it, and realized what a horrid kit it was, that I put it away. When doing my tamiya 1/350 New Jersey Viet Nam era conversion, I started rummaging through the Revell kit for "spares", and much to my delight, they included the rear mast that the New Jersey wore during the Viet Nam deployment. Apparently the Lifelike kit represented the Missouri during its Korean war fit. Anyway, having that mast spared me some scratch building. There were some other useful items too. Together with those spares, a Tamiya Missouri and New Jersey in 1/350 and Loren Perry's GMM PE Brass set for Modern New Jersey, got me an award winning model. The only thing is, reference photo's of BB-62 in that configuration are indeed rare. Anyone pondering such a project should secure a copy of Sumralls book, Iowa Class Battleships, as there are a few good photo's of BB-62 in that fit. Happy Holidays to all Mark Krumrey New RIchmond WI Where Winter has arrived with a vengence! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "lcp9" Subject: West Virginia ACR 5 U.S. ARMORED CRUISERSby Ivan Musicant ISBN 0-87021-714-3 USNI Press. has some profile drawings & cross sections of these ships, also a lot of photos U.S CRUISERS By Norman Friedman ISBN 0-87021-718-6 also has plan & profile views, but only a couple photos.. Another source would be the National Archives Record Group 19; 8601 Adelphi Road ; College Park ; MD 20740-6001. Hope this Helps David Angelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: ironship@usit.net (Jon Warneke) Subject: Re: Which kit? Hi Everyone, >> Neophyte shipmodeler considering purchase of a 1/350 BB-48 (WV). I find that Iron Shipwrights and Bluewater Navy both make one to this scale. Which kit is best? The ISW kit appears much more affordable, but sometimes ya gets what ya pays for! << Just a correction concerning this. Iron Shipwrights doesn't make a West Virginia. The kit that is referenced here is the Tom's Modelworks West Virginia. Both of these kits (Tom's and BWN) reflect the WV's fit on 7 Dec 41 rather than late war. ISW makes a late war Tennessee, which can be converted to a late war West Virginia, but when comparing this to the BWN or Tom's kit, you have two different ships. Jon Warneke Commander Series Models, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Alan Salas" Subject: Re: Angle Deck Essex I had occaision to e-mail JAG and they let me know that they are planning both an angle deck Essex and a straight deck Midway. I would imagine that both may be pricey but this hobby is keeping me poor anyway, so what the heck. Allan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Re: 1/350 Revell (Life-like) Iowa I have built the Revell modernized Iowa. It's not the most accurate kit in the world, but, for reasons I won't go into here, I prefer it over the Tamiya. I actually like the fact that the parts are thicker and heavier; the result is a somewhat more durable model. The Revell version was out in the '80s. I had assumed that it, along with the modernized version, was a new mold brought out to capitalize on the popularity of the BBs during that decade. It may be that the WWII version is older and that the modernized version is the product of some of the original molds and some new ones (there are, for example, many WWII era parts in the modernized kit which are to be discarded--as if modelers ever discard parts!). I caught a clearance on all models at a KB Toy about ten years ago and bought one modernized version for $20; I should have bought everything they had. I found the Life-like WWII kit on eBay and am considering it as a "companion" to the modernized one. Steve Allen, Who wishes every SMML and family the Merriest of Christmases or whatever holiday you enjoy and the happiest (and safest) of New Years! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: louellet@uism.bu.edu Subject: Re: SMML gathering John Snyder John_Snyder@macnexus.org wrote: >> Would someone please remind me of the dates in May, so that I can block them out on my calendar and start making some plans? << From John Frohock's message in November: >> It is felt the best time frame would be Friday, Saturday,and Sunday, May 5,6,7, 2000. This puts us far enough (we hope) from other major hobby events and family holidays and keeps us in the off season around here to hope and keep costs down. Any later in the year not only runs afoul of the summer hobby conventions but also this area is gonna be nuts during July for Op-Sail 2000 when the tall ships come in. I believe that New York has the same outlook, and hotel rooms are already scarce and very pricey. << Larry Ouellette louellet@uism.bu.edu Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) US Naval & Shipbuilding Museum Quincy, Massachusetts USA http://www.uss-salem.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "cpalfreeman" Subject: Re: Revell 1/72 Flower Class Corvette I was interested in this question a few issues ago. I've been told by two UK retailers that this kit is to be re-issued shortly after Christmas. The gentleman at Plastic Past-Times in Poole informed me that a decision had yet to be made over a general re-issue or just a limited edition - the latter because the last issue a few years ago achieved only limited sales. He also mentioned that old moulds for another 1/72 vessel were in Revell's possession in a partly finished state, but he wasn't sure what they represented; he reckoned a similarly sized small escort vessel, which narrows it down a bit.He had suggetsed to Revell that a market for this new kit may exist too. I've tried contacting Revell, but haven't managed to get any further, and I'm disappointed that the earlier post appears to have had no replies. Does anyone out there know if these rumours are true ? Merry Christmas all of you, and a New Year Charles Palfreeman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Modified N.J. Hello Rusty, The kit you are talking about is a Nichimo kit. It depicts a "theoretical" hybrid USS New Jersey with the #3 turret removed and a flight deck with ski jumps port and starboard. Interestingly, the first impression is that it is a bit wide and has a big nose. That is because the lower hull is actually the Yamato. It isn't a very good kit but is worth something as a curiosity. It pops up from time to time on eBay but be careful because it often sells for extremely inflated prices. Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Blast bags & muzzle covers Hi Mike Other photos I've seen of non-white muzzle covers and blast bags include Nagato and Oyodo. When this change took place is difficult to say but I do have a photo of Yamato with non-white muzzle covers. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Satin, Michael N. (LNG-SHEP)" Subject: State ships Well, I have rather an odd one here. I work for a company which produces products for every state in the Union. I am in charge of pretty much the western half of the country which we have divided up into teams. I'm thinking that if somehow I get too much money and don't know what to do with it, it might be nice to do a ship in 1/350 for each team. I have Iowa which takes care of one team, and Arizona which takes care of another (though that might not be the best choice). Any suggestions about the others? There's the Rocky Mountain team which includes Colorado, Kansas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Utah and Wyoming. The one with Arizona in it also has Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington. California has its own team. Now I'm looking for ships that actually existed here, so no funny stuff with Montana (that's just way beyond my capacity at this point). Can anyone tell me what's out there (assuming I've made any sense)? Thanks! Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Duane Fowler Subject: ARII Musashi Hello Arjun I bought the Arii 1/250 Musashi and Yamato kits on my last trip to Taiwan. (They were US$57 there compared to US$140 to US$200 in the US). On inspection (they are still in the boxes in my living room) they seem to be good kits. The fit of the deck to the hull is pretty good. The deck is in three pieces which is always a problem for joining. The parts detail seems to be good to. It is definitely MUCH better than the Nichimo 1/200 Yamato kit. Among other things, the lookout stations on the top of the pagoda are particularly well done with the wooden deck lattice molded in and binoculars on the stands. The two kits are actually identical with all the parts to build either ship (and two different versions of the Yamato). The secondary turrets could be better, but are infinitely better than the Nichimo kit. The crane is all wrong like all the other kits that I have seen. The biggest problem that I have is that no one makes PE for this odd scale. That means that you must make your own railings and other detail parts. The scale is big enough so that it is possible, but just VERY time consuming. But why else are we in modeling? Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Skywave Z-37 Reference Material Rick Heinbaugh writes: >> Does anyone know of any articles written on working with (correcting, converting) the Skywave/ Tamiya German DD kit? << The Naval Historical Center in Washington has many pictures of the Z-39 (and T-35) both which were allocated to the US as war booty. These include drydock views. If anyone is interested, I can post or send you the negative numbers. Kurt Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Joseph Poutre Subject: Iowa class models, "Harrier carrier" conversions of Iowas >> Steve Allen mentioned this kit (in reference to the Life-Like kit) Can someone tell me about this kit? I've read/heard about it several times, but have never seen it in shops or listed anywhere. When was it put out << I have two of the Missouri (WWII) and one of the New Jersey(modern). They are OK models, not of the same quality as the Tamiya, but with patience and some experience they can have good result. BTW: If Santa brings me what I want for Christmas, I'll be selling the two Missouris, plus a Revell 1/720 modern USS New Jersey - I promised her, plus I'll need the space. :-) >> I saw a model some time back that was designed to depict a theoretical hangar deck with "ski slopes" for Harriers. I know the model was the New Jersey and I believe the scale was 1/900. For that reason alone I didn't buy the kit. I am seriously considering converting the 1/350 Tamiya New Jersey to this hypothetical variant. It's super cool looking with the hangar deck covering the aft capital gun mount and the ski slopes pointing forward. Does anyone out there have that model? I don't care if it's built or not, as long as it's all there so I can scale it. Drawings would be even better, but I'm not holding my breath. << I have this model, built and donated to the Battleship New Jersey Historical Museum Society. I wouldn't bother with it - it's basically the Nichimo 30cm USS New Jersey with a crude flight deck and a couple Harriers. The best resource for this model would be "The Hybrid Warship" by Stephen McLaughlin and R. D. Layman. It has a chapter on the various conversions proposed for the Iowa class over the decades. There was also an article in "Aviation Week and Space Technology" magazine back in the early 1980s, which had an outline. I'm thinking of using my Revell 1/350 for a similar conversion detailed in "Hybrid Warship" - it's an X-shaped flight deck with catapult and arresting wires. The funnels were trunked into one, and the 5"/38s were replaced by modern 5"/54s, plus a couple 8" MCLWG. While impractical in reality, it'll make a cool display model! Joseph Poutre Co-webmaster, Battleship New Jersey Historical Museum Society http://www.bb62museum.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Mirco Zerbini" Subject: NANUCHKA Class Corvette Hi everybody, Today I went to a Hobby shop in Bologna, Italy where I live, and I saw a Nanuchka Class in 1/150 (if I remember well). Since it seems me that somebody was looking for such a ship in previous volumes of SMML, if the need still exists, please contact me. Wish everybody a great Holiday Season 8-).. Mirko Zerbini -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Mike_C Subject: Re: fun recycling I did something like that once. I had a whole bunch of South Dakota parts from kits that I had raided for scratchbuilding, along with a damaged Yamashiro. By throwing them together in a somewhat convincing manner, I came up with what I called the "Yamakoda" and put it on display in a local hobby shop just for laughs. Some other guys built bogus nuclear submarines out of 1/32 scale Skyhawk drop tanks. The funny thing was that a few people actually asked where the kits were. I guess not everyone is very concerned with accurate research. Mike Czibovic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Maritime museum displays Hi Guys I have two questions for those involved with maritime museums. Very shortly the Navy will decide the fate of the USS New Jersey as to what city the ship will be moored. Has there been a situation like these before? Two cities with associations and money behind it that causes such a debate that a third party has to be brought in such as the navy to make the final determination. A for maritime museums that have displays from IPMS chapters, my chapter is considering that we may asked to provide them with one, if the New Jersey is moored in CAMDEN, NJ. What are your policies with IPMS chapters for displays? What type of displays are usually asked for? An information be it positive or negative would be appreciation. Sincerely, Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Buckley DE book Hi guys I recently came across a new book on Buckley class DE's. Produced by the naval institute and written by Bruce Franklin and costs $44.95 it has excellent photos covers the use of the these ships as Destroyer Escorts, Transports, Power Supply ships, Radar Picket Escorts, and Amphibious Control Ships. The British Captain class escorts of this design are covered as well with attention to their operations, design and armanment,historical background, and service history. It's good book. Maybe this will interest you. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Charles Jarvis Subject: Enterprise at Midway The last time I did a Midway answerl I suffered from what I'll kindly describe as a cranial flatulance. This time, the cranium has been pre-evacuated. Enterprise's airgroup comprised of: VF-6 27 F4F-4 VB-6 19 SBD-2 and SBD-3 VS-6 19 SBD-2 and SBD-3 VT-6 14 TBD-1 (Torpedo 6 was short one TBD because of accident) (The above information is from "Miracle At Midway" by Gordon L. Prange, Donald M. Goldstein and Katherine V. Dillon) Enterprise launched 33 dive bombers, 14 torpedo planes and 10 fighters. The dive bombers left first at 0706, then the torpedo planes, then the fighters. The planes were brought up from the hanger decks as other planes were launched and space became available. (This information is from "Incredible Victory" by Walter Lord. Great book. Every Midway-interested modeler should have this one.) Anyhow, you have a lot of configurations for the Enterprise launch. Good luck and have fun. Hope this helps Charlie Jarvis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Lou or Arthur Costanzo Subject: Bofors shields I have some Blue Water Navy 40mm quad Bofors AA guns, which are excellent except for one component. The etched brass shields, when formed don't have any iclination to their face plates, as in many photographs I've seen. Has anyone else used this set? Is the brass salvagable or will I need to seek another option? Thanks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: UK TV As a postscript to your TV show, it was announced earlier this week that the captain of the submarine USS Sealion II that carried out the attack, Eli T. Reich, passed away recently. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Save USS Oriskany While surfing last night, in an attempt to locate resource material on the Oriskany (to see just how much work would be needed to covert the Revell kit into her - something I'm still seriously considering), I stumbled across an interesting tidbit on the USS-Salem.org page about the USS Oriskany being in Beaumont, TX since 4/99. My curiosity piqued (as to why she hadn't been scrapped by now - because I thought she was), I found a web board where members of the Oriskany Veteran's Association had more information. Apparently the ship has been sold to two scrapping firms, both of which defaulted on their agreement with NAVSEA. As such, the ship was towed to Beaumont early this year and placed under MARAD custody pending her ultimate disposal. This has generated interest among members of the Association in seeing if they might be able to persuade a historic organization into purchasing the ship as a museum. From what I learned, the ship is not complete since some parts from her were removed for restoring the Hornet and other Essex cl museum ships. Thus NAVSEA isn't painting an optimistic picture about the chances of relasing the ship to a historical group (because none stepped forward when the ship was first offered). For more information about this, the web board can be found at... http://www3.bravenet.com/forum/show.asp?userid=qo38670 Given the Oriskany's history, it'd be a shame to see her go to the scrapyards after being spared not once but twice from such a fate. At the moment, the Association is trying to get in contact with other former crew members of the ship to alert them of this situation. I'm not connected with any veterans groups (given I'm not one), but if you have any contacts, you might want to pass this along to these groups. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: JSP Oriskany Photos First off, it's good to hear JAG is planning a SCB-125 Essex as a future kit. Maybe by the time it comes about, I'll have the funds to buy one. I know a number of you have the JSP Oriskany kit, but have any of you photographed the finished kit and put them up on the web anywhere. The only plans I have of the ship are from JFS, and those are quite limited. As such, I'd like to see what a correct model of the ship looks like to see what sorta mods would need to be made to the Revell kit to make a believable Oriskany. I know I'll have to redo the aft flight deck to get the right angle, and do some work on the hull and island. The only photo I've found thus far of the JSP kit was on the FSM site, and it's quite small and blurred. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Bill Gruner Subject: PACIFIC FRONT - NEW DECEMBER UPDATE Our new December is now online...lots of new kits, books and accessories....check out our website at: http://www.pacificfront.com Thanks, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies Roseburg OR -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Mirco Zerbini" Subject: HELLER DAPHNE' SS Hi everybody again, It seems that SMML is working well as a mean of finding something, so I'm here with a new request: If anybody has and wants to sell an HELLER 1/400 SS DAPHNE' please contact me. Happy modelling to everybody. MIRKO ZERBINI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume