Subject: SMML24/12/99VOL769 Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 00:51:02 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Merry Christmas 2: Re: Paint colors in WWII (esp Pearl Harbor) 3: Season's Greetings 4: Re: Chinese battleship 5: Y2K Compliance 6: Re: CV 6 at Midway 7: Re: LST Plans 8: Re: Revell 1/72 Flower Class Corvette, 1/350 New Jersey 9: merry xmas 10: New Jersey with flight deck 11: Re: Paint colors in WWII (esp Pearl Harbor) 12: USS Yorktown.... 13: USN nomenclature query 14: Nautical Nomenclature 15: Merry Christmas! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Railings, Stuff etc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Mistress Lorna & Shane Subject: Merry Christmas Hiya SMMLies Here's wishing you all the very best for the festive season. May all your presents be full of plastic & reference material. Since we celebrate Christmas on Christmas Eve in the Hungarian fashion, I can say that the Mistress gave me Ballard's book on Midway & 4 Warship International back issues. Speaking of the Mistress, here she is ;-). Shane Merry Christmas everyone and remember the New Year is when we can legitimately make all sorts of proud resolutions about how many kits we're going to build this year and be taken seriously. Wellll, semi-seriously ;-)) Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Ingebrethsen, Kyrre" Subject: Re: Paint colors in WWII (esp Pearl Harbor) Hi all. Note of warning: The following post containts words like "aircraft", "army" and "airforce". If offended please read no further. :-) On the subject of USN Aircraft Paint Colours I thought I'd chip in with some questions and at the end of the post some opinions. I can't seem to find the answer anywhere else so since it's Christmas maybe you "boatbuffs" could help me out? I've been trying to find out about the appliance of colours to the aircraft of AG-4 aboard the Ranger in October '43 without reaching a conclusion. Here's why: - The of VT- and VB-4 appears to have been painted according to standards introduced during the summer of '43, consisting of a three tone Sea Blue/Intermidiate Blue/White scheme with maybe just white numbers on the tail and perhaps cowling lip. Although we're talking October the aircraft retained the red outline to the stars'n'bars, supposed to have been painted dark blue in September. Conjecturally one could then say that the VF-4 Wildcats were painted that same three tone blueish camo and same insignia. However, I still haven't found ANY pictures showing Wildcats from Ranger in the Autumn of '43. What confuses me, and keeps me from automaticly paint my Tamiya Wildcat in those colours is the evidence that aircraft from USS Santee, like F4F-4's from VF-29, were painted in a similar three tone camo only in a grey version! Could it be that the Wildcats from Ranger were painted similarly? (I realise that Santee was operating further South, but where's the division between a "Southern" and a "Northern" camo?) Does anyone sit on information from Operation Leader that could help me on the way? Here's a link for those who'd like to be filled in on this particular operation: http://www.airgroup4.com/norway.html. Now to contribute to the "confusion" about USN Camo's I have also noticed that also the abovementioned three-tone camo has been applied in many ways, with especially the white parts varying. Like someone else pointed out, what was found important was the serviceability of the equipment, not the ANA specification of the colours applied to the wings and fuselage. And the numbers were for ranging, who cared what fonts they were in! :-) For a modelbuilder that leaves lots of room for improvisations most of the time, and that is good. Except if you want to model a particular aircraft. Just like with Army and Airforce aircraft you not only have to find out about noseart (less common on Navy A/C), you also have to work out the applied camo at that particular time! Puh, give me factory-applied Spitfire camouflage any day! Seriously, taking into account scale effect, weathering/fading, viewing light and individual interpretation of colours my opinion is that no matter what you choose you'll be right! It's all right having discussions, those will give you a good foundation for your choice of colours, in the end the accuracy of the whole kit will allways be relative. I know, I know, that's all self explanatory, my point is that we are after all dealing with models - they just can't be right... Now if we were dealing with 1:1 replicas, that would be a different story. That's my opinion, and I'm definitely being humble, although it may not always seem like it...:-) Oh, and Merry Christmas to all! Kyrre, Harstad, Norway, Dark, Cold and Snowy. But Pleasant... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Season's Greetings To the List: Snyder & Short Enterprises would like to send a wish for a Merry Christmas, Happy Channukah, and a safe, healthy, and happy New Year to all. My personal thanks also to the list members and to Shane and Mistress Lorna for another year of THE best shipmodeling information to be found anywhere. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Mitsuaki Kubota Subject: Re: Chinese battleship Hi Nicolas, The Chinese battleships you ask are probably Tei-Yuen and Chen-Yuen manufactured by Zhengdefu Toys Co., ltd. To best of my knowledge, mould color of Tei-Yuen are gray, Chen-Yuen are blue. Zhengdefu also released cruiser Chi-Yuen. These three ships belonged to Chinese North Sea fleet, and participated in Sino-Japanese war. They were damaged at Battle of the Yalu, Chi-yuen bravely attempted ramming, but sunk by Japanese fleet. Afterwards Tei-Yuen was torpeded and scuttled. Chen-Yuen was captured by IJN, and served as IJN second class battleship. She had same name when she was under flag of Chinese fleet. Best regards and merry Christmas, Mitsuaki Kubota -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: ironship@usit.net (Jon Warneke) Subject: Y2K Compliance Hi Everyone, Commanders Series Models/Iron Shipwrights and Tom's Modelworks have been working dilligently for the past few months on a very extensive project that we feel can be disseminated to the public. Through our extensive and rigorous testing, which included setting our computer clocks forward, rebooting with modified dates, and watching dates change, we are now able to conclude that all of our pattern making, photoetch design, casting, packaging, and kits are Y2K compliant. This means that at the stroke of midnight on Jan. 1, 2000, no matter where in the world, you will still be able to build a Commander Series, Iron Shipwrights, or Tom's Modelworks kit, or use a Tom's Modelworks photoetch fret, without suffering from any Y2K related failures. This includes not only a temporary shortage of parts, but also any resin or brass thinking that the year is now 1900, that the technology for it's presence doesn't exist, and the product evaporating into thin air. We at Commander Series and Tom's Modelworks are proud of the work that we have done on this project, and assure you that any unforseen problems that may arise due to Y2K compliance issues concerning our kits will be dealt with forthrightly and compunctionally. In closing, any thoughts concerning the sanity of this project are welcome, and will be immediately forwarded to our project leader who now resides at the palatial padded room of Northshore Community Treatment Center. From all of us at Commander Series Models, Inc. and Tom's Modelsworks, have a very Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Ward. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: Re: CV 6 at Midway >> I'd like some information on the magazine article for accurizing the Enterprise for Midway. Also, I'd like to have as full a deck as possible, with representations of each aircraft flown of the Big E during the battle. Would it have been possible (or are there any records that indicate) a deck with F4Fs, SBDs and TBDs just prior to launch? << Marc, The Enterprise had F4F's SBD-3's (I believe) and TBD Devastators. You can check in with: http://www.cv6.org. They have a section on their web page dedicated for modelers. Good Luck. Steve Singlar Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: MRTIBABS@aol.com Subject: Re: LST Plans John, For your LST plans try The Floating Drydock, Plan G-LST-1183 USS Tioga County, 1/96 scale, circa 1/65. Nick Tiberio -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Ken Gray Subject: Re: Revell 1/72 Flower Class Corvette, 1/350 New Jersey Hi, Charles wrote :- >> I was interested in this question a few issues ago. I've been told by two UK retailers that this kit is to be re-issued shortly after Christmas Does anyone out there know if these rumours are true? << Looking on Revell Germany's website, ( which is in German, which I don't read unfortunately) there is a listing for H.M.C.S. Snowberry with what looks like a release date of March 2000. they also had a listing for a 1:350 U.S.S. New Jersey for Jan 2000, and a 1:700 U.S.S. Wasp Class for October 2000. Check out the link below. http://www.revell.de/katalog/index.html Happy Holidays! Ken Gray -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "graham" Subject: merry xmas Merry Xmas to al smmlies and here's hoping that you all have a great new year. best wishes graham@the cruiser sig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Darren Scannell Subject: New Jersey with flight deck I have the November 1980 issue of Sea Classics and it has an article about the proposed reactivation of the NEW JERSEY. The article describes the use of 4-6 helicopters or Harriers. Their is a small set of plans shown on one page drawn by Harold Pulver. The plans show an angled deck to port. The end of the angled deck is blocked slightly by the superstructure on the profile view so it is hard to tell, but no ski jump can be seen. Are there more than one set of proposals or did it go through a concept change? Darren Scannell Merry Christmas from Ontario, Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Shane Weier Subject: Re: Paint colors in WWII (esp Pearl Harbor) From: "Steven P. Allen" >> The vet said that they had "mixed" that particular shade in 55 gallon drums using navy blue and light gray (the only colors availble in quantity on the ship) - and hadn't been too particular about the percentages (it was wartime afterall). This modeler did the same exact thing ... and the result was excellent. << I'm curious to know what he did with the other 54.99 gallons of paint? Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "bob mcfarlane" Subject: USS Yorktown.... I am interested in building a carrier from the Midway-Coral Sea era. Could anyone please suggest the best model manufacturer and a scale that would give me the most detailed ship? I'm familiar with the 1/570 and 1/350 scale Titanic models and have completed both, but it is now time to move to my true interest, warships of the Battle of the Pacific. I've been looking at web sites of the Lexington, Hornet, Yorktown and Enterprise and I would appreciate anyone's experience and advice in this subject. I look forward to your responses! Lastly, I would like to wish a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all members of the list. Best Regards to All, Bob McFarlane. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: USN nomenclature query Can anyone here explain to me what ever happened to the USN's nomenclature (naming conventions) over the past ten years? Specifically, why the change, and why don't they stick with a naming system once it's in place. Since this is off topic, feel free to e-mail me privately. I understand part of it started in the late 60s when they decided to start naming "frigates" after states because there were no more battleships. Then in '75, the large frigates were redesignated cruisers (so we had cruisers named after states, cities, and naval heros), and DEs were finally - at long last - redesignated as Frigates (like in the rest of the world's navies). Then they decided to start naming SSBNs after states and SSNs after cities. Okay...the SSBN was the big punch of the fleet (as the Battleship had once been) and nuclear missile platforms named after "statesmen" probably seemed oxymoronic to some. The change from sea creatures to cities for SSNs though seemed to make less sense though. The function of an SSN really isn't that much different than it was in WWII (excluding their endurance and anti-sub capability). Then Carriers started being named after statesmen. Okay...yeah, they're used in diplomacy, but naming ships after folks who are still with us seemed pretty odd to me (re: Ronald Reagan). Then Cruisers went from "states, cities, naval heroes" to "Battles." Hmm, okay, could be acceptable, but they also name LHA/LHDs after battles (typically amphibious ones, but still, confusing to be sure). Then they named a SSN after a statesman (Jimmy Carter) which adds confusion to the mix, then they went back to sea creatures/famous ships (Seawolf), and lately wound up with states (Virginia cl). Now hold on a minute - yeah, the boomers have gone the way of the dinos, but still...that don't make no sense. Who's naming these ships, and what are they using...a dart board? Or, have they just given up on a fixed nomemclature system. No offense, but it makes me fear the next USS Enterprise will be a Cruiser/Sub/??? Confused, _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Mike Connelley Subject: Nautical Nomenclature Howdy Y'all: On a recent trip to the USS Missouri (where they have now opened up the mess and the Truman line) I learned why the restrooms aboard ships are known as the "head". This caused me to wonder where such seemingly odd terms as port, starboard, bow, stern, bridge, galley, keel, etc came from. The collective knowledge of SMML must contain the origins of these and other terms. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wonders about things like this (I'm not the only one....right?) so if you know where one or more of these terms originated, please inform the rest of us. Cheers Mike Connelley -In Hawaii where it's 80 degrees in December, and we'll go surfing on X-mas morning. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Mike" Subject: Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas to all on the List from myself and my good wife Lynn, who prompted me to get back into ship modelling after a few years away! And a special request to all who get a ship model-related present - why not write a short review & submit it for the SMML Web Site? The submition address is available on-line. And speaking of the site, before the end of Christmas Eve I plan to have the latest batch of SMML Archives uploaded, together with some Yamato pictures, and a follow-up to Ken Goldman's Chinese ships post! Once more, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!! Mike SMML Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: Railings, Stuff etc Hi there, >> I'm new to this ship-building and love horrible, old kits which need tender, loving care. << Well, there's a great choice awaiting you out there!! >> Please recommend comprehensive improvement kit with railings etc. in 1/400 or 1/350 scale for old pre-dreadnought era ships. << Well, if it's a comprehensive and extensive rails/ladders set you require, for the least amount of outlay, then we have just received our WEM PE 3516 1/350 Rails and Ladders set at 11.08 pounds (price held for a limited period) Click on: http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/wembrass/wempe3516.jpg and WEM PE 4001 1/400 Rails and Ladders set at 11.08 Pounds. Click on: http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/wembrass/wempe4001.jpg Each of these is etched on 4 thou brass to an extremely fine degree, and contains almost 5 thousand scale feet of rails, mainly 3-Bar, with some 2-Bar, single, etc.. in several styles. Ladders are also included, as are awning stanchions. >> Also, I plan to start a collection of 1/700 pre-dreadnoughts. Any railings available for this scale as well? << Again, we can help out there... if it's just rails and ladders you are after, then, offering around 2,200 scale feet of rails, mainly 3-Bar, we have WEM PE 714, a snip at 1.49 Pounds. Check http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/wempe714.jpg This is the next finest set to GMM's "Gold Plus" 1/700 Rails set, which we also carry, at 10.47 pounds.. the rails on this set are virtually in-scale, and I believe there are around 4,500 scale feet (can't check, as am still waiting for the curent GMM order to arrive). Also, we also do a kit of the Askold. This carries a good-sized photoetched brass detail set with a lot of useful items for any pre-dreadnought Russian battleship, and is available separately at 11.08 Pounds Click below for the Askold feature. http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/askold/askold.htm >> Anyone have any idea of a series of Chinese kits of same era battleships (1884...). I cannot read Chinese characters and nothing is in non-Chinese. << These are the Zhengedfu kits.. rather "toy-like", with motors. Crude.. however, I have seen one of these built with lots of scratch-building and additional detailing and it looked rather good. Any furher info, or if you'd like a full set of lists, just contact me, Caroline. Thanks! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume