Subject: SMML28/12/99VOL773 Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 00:24:17 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: USS Tarawa v. USS Wasp class ships 2: Re: USS CHICAGO 3: Re: USS Chicago 4: Re: Modern Iowa 5: Inland museums across the US 6: Re: JAG Gearing FRAM 7: USS St. Louis Radar 8: FRAM Paint scheme 9: Paint bottle markings anyone? 10: Re: USS Chicago 11: Re: Paint Colors in WWII 12: USS Juneau LPD-10 13: Great Book! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Brass for FRAM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "ERIC OLSON" Subject: USS Tarawa v. USS Wasp class ships There was a recent post concerning models of the USS Wasp and a clarification of the modern USS Wasp (LHD-1) class amphibious combat assault ships. The commenter made a statement that the Tarawa class ships are larger than the Wasp class ships. I have a friend who is currently part of the ship's crew in USS Bataan (LHD-5), a Wasp class ship. He would take umbrage at the statement that the Tarawa class is larger than the Wasp class. I looked up the ships in the 1994 version of Jane's Fighting Ships Recognition Handbook and found the following: USS Tarawa class: Displacement--39967 tons Length--834 feet Beam--131.9 feet USS Wasp class: Displacement--40532 tons Length--844 feet Beam--140.1 feet Hope this answers the question (with due respect to OS2 Ervin in USS Bataan). Best wishes for the holidays and a happy New Year to all. Eric O.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: USS CHICAGO >> Does anyone know how the Chicago was painted during 1943? << CHICAGO was wearing Measure 21, overall Navy Blue 5-N with Deck Blue 20-B horizontal surfaces. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: USS Chicago >> My lovely wife suprised me this year with the Corsair Armada USS Chicago for Christmas. The kit is very nice, however, there are no finishing references. There are a couple of photos in the instructions, which show an overall dark finish. Does anyone know how the Chicago was painted during 1943? << USS Chicago CA-29 was painted MS 21 in 1943. MS 21 calls for Navy Blue 5-N on all vertical surfaces and Deck Blue 20-B on all horizontal surfaces. John Sheridan I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 Last last place on earth I would look for the Lumber Cartel(tm) is http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Joseph Poutre Subject: Re: Modern Iowa >> Here's a probably hypothetical question. Does anyone know how much work would be involved to convert the 1/350 Tamiya New Jersey to a modernized Iowa? I'm doing the work to change the Mo kit to the Iowa in WWII and thought it might be cool to show a "before and after" kind of thing. << References, especially photos, would be essential. While all the upgrades were _basically_ the same, there were minor differences, and one major difference. The New Jersey, and only the New Jersey, had a large portion of the after deck covered over. The other ships had only the helo pad covered over, and the rest left wood. I don't know why this was done, but it is a noticable difference. Joe Poutre Co-webmaster, Battleship New Jersey Historical Museum Society http://www.bb62museum.org/ Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Joseph Poutre Subject: Inland museums across the US >> Why should the coast dwellers be favored? I think it's high time one of these museum ships was located INLAND! How about Spokane? Norm Samish (Spokane) << What do you want inland? How far inland? While a battleship would be hard-pressed to reach, say, Iowa, there are ship museums in such states as Ohio, Nebraska, Kansas, and Minnesota. If you want more information, come visit my List of Naval and Maritime museums at: http://www.bb62museum.org/usnavmus.html Note that while it is currently stored on the BB62 Museum Society site, it is run by myself, and is not affiliated with or supported by the Society. Joe Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: JOHN A BURCH Subject: Re: JAG Gearing FRAM >> I just recieved the JAG 1/700 Gearing FRAM and am very impressed..... I wish the ship had more brass than it does. I have some brass railing, and am planning to get ladders as well, does anyone else that has this kit reccomend any other sets? I'm looking to model this ship as she appeared in the mid-sixties, which is where the kit seems to date her. The ship I am planning is the USS Joseph P Kennedy Jr. primarily because of the abundant reference materiall (namely, the ship itself). The kit includes radar of some sort, but it looks nothing like what Kennedy carried, at least in 1965 Is there any brass set that has this radar? It does not look like a pleasant scratchbuild! Any other advice on modelling this unfamiliar ship would be welcome. << The GMM PE set 700-10, Modern USN / JMSDF Warship includes the bedspring style antenna for the SPS-29 Air Search RADAR. This GMM set also provides the antenna for SPS-40, which is what is provided in the JAG kit. SPS-29 and SPS-40 RADARs were apparently provided interchangeably in GEARING and SUMNER FRAMs and FORREST SHERMAN class DDs, probably to avoid mutual RF interference and to provide frequency diversity. You have to determine from photos which RADAR antenna was used in which specific ship. The GMM set also provides the antenna for SPS-10 Surface Search RADAR which was used almost universally in the USN until superseded by the SPS-55. The GMM SPS-10 antenna looks a little bit better than the one provided in the JAG kit, IMHO. The GMM PE set also includes railing, ladders and flight deck netting that are applicable to FRAMs, as well as other items (e.g., SPS-49 antenna, and SH-60 rotor blades) that are applicable to USN and JMSDF ships from the late '70s and beyond. John Burch Gaithersburg, MD USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Lou or Arthur Costanzo Subject: USS St. Louis Radar What air search radar did USS St. Louis (CL 49) carry during the Aleutians campagn of 1942? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Lou or Arthur Costanzo Subject: FRAM Paint scheme More questions on the Jag Gearing. When I paint a ship, I tend to use colors that look 'right' rather than the precise color. That said, I'm trying to find a color that would be good for the horizontal surfaces of the ship. I have about 20 grays in my posession and all seem too light or too dark. Any suggestions? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "David C. Maschino" Subject: Paint bottle markings anyone? I've come across the best thing to label all your paint bottles for easy identification. Avery makes permanent 1" round Mailing Seals (stock # 05247) in a 600 pack for about $6 US (got mine at OfficeMax) and they perfectly fit the tops of ModelMaster bottles. After a few openings the factory applied paint labels rub off leaving you guessing. This way not only can I write the color on the bottle top, but also the date of purchase, which helps down the road too. Try it, you'll save tons of time searching for the color you need. David C. Maschino -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Mike_C Subject: Re: USS Chicago I didn't realize I had forgotten the painting instructions until after I finished printing out the instructions. I had hoped people would be able to deduce the colors by the date of the modification. Looks like I'll have to add an insert. My apologies for my screw up. The kit depicts Chicago after her final refit. She was in Ms 21, with 5-N vertical and 20-B horizontal surfaces. See the Snyder & Short chips for the correct colors. I hope you have fun with the kit. My address is on the box (or you can email me at mailto:mike21@mediaone.net ) if you need any further assistance. Mike Czibovic Corsair Armada Productions -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Paint Colors in WWII For the camouflage scheme of Chicago in 1943, I'll refer you to USN Warship Camouflage 1941-1945: http://home.earthlink.net/~jrsheridan/ Now, about the aircraft colors on Ranger in the Fall of 1943. Chris, you've caused me to search even further in my research data and I found a photo of a deckload of SBDs on Ranger's deck in February 1944. This is from SBDs in Action by Squadron/Signal publications. They are in the two-tone, blue-gray over light gray scheme. The caption notes that the two-tone scheme was kept for Ranger because the sea blue, intermediate blue, white tricolor would have been inappropriate for the North Atlantic. And the airgroup commander obviously felt that the antisubmarine scheme II would have been inappropriate with all those 109 and 190 things flitting about. The photos also show the star in the blue circle, no bars at all. So, Chris has a photo identified at late 1943 with the two-tone, I've got one in February 1944 with the same scheme. Considering the photographic evidence, then, I'd have to say that aircraft on Ranger used the two-tone scheme during the Operation Leader. There would be no bars nor red or blue outline. Chris is also correct in assuming that all aircraft in the same air group would be painted the same. I've known enough bosuns to vouch for this. Kyrre, I would suggest you contact the Air Group 4 Association (see http://www.airgroup4.com). You could e-mail them and get a definitive answer from someone who was there -- maybe. Just a note, Ranger's primary responsibility outside of Opertions Torch and Leader was antisub patrol and convoy escort. Let us know what they say. And Chris, don't duck for cover when you do some good research, you might miss a compliment hurled your way. Marc Flake Tarrant County Texas (Who is going to spend the next hour looking around the Air Group 4 website.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: USS Juneau LPD-10 Greetings, I hope everyone's Christmas included an abundance of plastic, resin and photo etch. Two questions: 1. Is there a kit around for the USS Juneau LPD-10? I believe it is a Cleveland class LPD. I'd like to build it as a gift for a friend. 2. Does anyone else have a FRAM Sumner kit other than the Jim Shirley kit? Thanks, Steve Singlar Pelham, NH (Still no snow, and no complaints) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Great Book! I just received a packet from White Ensign Models (UK), a book which Caroline assured me would be worth every penny, pence, pound, etc., that I pay for it. The title is "The Royal Navy at Malta - Vol. II 1907-1939". If you are a Royal Naval buff (not just any naval buff), for the WWI and WWII era's, then this book has some of the best photo reproduction out today, and, best of all, it is in English! Many a fabulous portrait of most of the Royal Navy's finest, all the way down to the auxiliaries and this is in a real large format. Very highly recommended, and a good deal at 27 pounds + postage. Steve Wiper Classic Warships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Brass for FRAM >> I have some brass railing, and am planning to get ladders as well, does anyone else that has this kit reccomend any other sets? << I have built a Jim Shirley FRAM DD and our Knox Class Frigate set work just great. Even the bow rails are the right angle. It contains everything you should need to detail your Gearing. You can SEE it on my web site at the URL below. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume