Subject SMML31/12/99VOL776 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 23:09:01 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Waterline Striking Device 2: Paint bottle markings anyone? 3: Re: Computer Problems 4: Superiority of USN ships 5: USN Measure 16 Thayer System 6: Pipettes (don't spend a fortune) 7: Measuring / Mixing Paint 8: Your best technique and favorite tool 9: Re: Best Ships (was USN Ship Names) 10: USS Tarawa/Saipan 11: Re: SAR boat "Arkona" 12: 1:350 figures 13: USS Ward 14: WARSHIP COMPARISONS 15: Re: Nautical Nomenclature 16: Re: IJN Coral Sea Colors 17: Happy New Year to SMMLies 18: Re: Air Group 4 Colors 19: Re: USS Olympia 20: Re: Battleship 2nd Class" HN Averof 21: Millenium 22: More S&S Paint Matches 23: Mission Capistrano 24: SMML is an International List 25: USN Measure 16 Thayer System 26: New Announcements from Skywave/PitRoad -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: SMML site update & Happy New Year! 2: FYI: Ship Model Workshop -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS To all The SMMLies. HAPPY NEW YEAR. All the best for 2000 Shane & Lorna Now I can get back to some serious drinking ;-þ hic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Tom Eisenhour Subject: Waterline Striking Device I need to strike the waterline on my Amati Type VII U-boat. Where can I get a waterline striking gauge ("attrezzo di quotatura" in Italian)? Thanks and Happy New Year to all SMMLies! Tom Eisenhour Austin, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Tom Eisenhour Subject: Paint bottle markings anyone? George Stein wrote: >> Now, what has this crew of experts discovered for replacing the inner-lid seals to try and preserve "bottled" paint??? << Wipe the neck of the bottle, place a square of aluminum foil over it, and screw the lid down. >> By the way, has anyone noticed the new formula Humbrol enamels seem to lack the shelf-life of previous versions?? I've still got useful tins of the really early "military" paints which, while looking useless in the tin, "restore" to life quite well with sufficiently patient stirring. << I've found that Humbrol (and Xtracolour) has the longest shelf life of any paints. I've got some from 20 years ago that's still good! Must be the tins. After I open a tin for the first time I drop in 3 or 4 BBs. Next time, you can shake the tin to stir the paint. Tom Eisenhour Austin, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Gene Larson Subject: Re: Computer Problems >> my "Favorites" folder which contained all the cool sites I had found was not saved. << The nrg web site has over 1000 ship model building sources (web site links and no links). If you ever have a need for info go there first. There is a lot of good info. Gene Larson, Alexandria, Virginia Nautical Research Guild, Inc. http://www.Naut-Res-Guild.org "A non-profit, tax exempt, charitable, educational organization with international membership, dedicated to maritime research and accurate ship model building." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "John Rule" Subject: Superiority of USN ships Mr. Dave Baker sent the following when joining discussion on USN ship naming >> When we were building large numbers of ships, it made good sense to have well-defined categories, but today we build very few ships (which is really okay, as ours are infinitely better than anyone else's and nobody else is building very many) << Such arrogance does not become you or your country, which you sometimes purport to represent. It reminds me of the arrogance (or was it ignorance) of the USN submariner with whom I spoke many years ago. He believed that he belonged to the most secretive force in the world that moved without anyone's knowledge throughout the oceans of the world. He believed it was a coincidence that wherever they surfaced there happened to be a Russian trawler fishing. He was too naive to disillusion. The US has a large Navy of which it should be rightly proud. Don't belittle it by believing it to be bigger, better, stronger than everyone else. There a lot of smaller more efficient Navies out there who can also be proud. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "David O'Neal" Subject: USN Measure 16 Thayer System John: Naval Institute Proceedings Feb 1973 has a article on U.S. W.W.II ship camouflage. On pg. 78 there are 3 good photos of ms.16 if you need I can scan and e-mail them to you. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Pipettes (don't spend a fortune) I noticed a package of (I think 10) pipettes sold by Testor in the hobby shop yesterday for about $1.50. They come in super handy for transferring paint from one jar to another and are perfect for filling airbrush cups. Man, these guys are making a killing on these little beggars! You can purchase a box of 500 pipettes for about $15.00 or so at a medical supply house. One box lasts me for years. Thought everyone would like to know. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "JOHN CURRIE" Subject: Measuring / Mixing Paint The best way i find of measuring paint is by using a surgical syringe, negative needle, Glass ones are the easiest to clean. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Your best technique and favorite tool I would like to start a new thread. What is your favorite technique and what is your favorite (most indespencible) tool on your model bench? I have found over the years that I pick up the most valuable techniques from other ship modelers. I'll start. The best technique I have found over the years is how to paint ships using an air brush. I've said this before, but I wanted to start with this technique. I completely paint the deck (s) first. I then aim the airbrush up at a 45% angle below the waterline and spray the entire hull (below the waterline) and superstructure. The edge of the deck acts as natural mask. Once dry, the only parts of the ship left to brush paint is where the bulkheads meet the deck. My favorite and most indespencible tool is what I call a "nub." "Nubs" are nothing more than the leftover ends when stretching sprue. I use them to apply superglue to photoetch parts. The thicker the end, the larger drop of glue it will apply. This neat little tool will allow you apply as much or as little as you need. When buildup occurs, just snip the end away and keep going. Give it a try. You'll use nothing else from now on. Lets hear your techniques and tools. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Best Ships (was USN Ship Names) >> Mr. Dave Baker sent the following when joining discussion on USN ship naming >> When we were building large numbers of ships, it made good sense to have well-defined categories, but today we build very few ships (which is really okay, as ours are infinitely better than anyone else's and nobody else is building very many) << >> I wonder if he could qualify this statement. Does he mean all classes of ships or just some? Does he mean that no other maritime nation can build a better warship class than the USA now does? Does this mean that the top of the line frigates in service in Britain, France and Canada for example just don't stand up well to their American counterparts. Just wondering << Oh, let's not go down THIS path, folks. Tom, if Dave's tongue wasn't planted firmly in his cheek when he wrote that, it should have been! SMML has to be the most civilized, flame-free list I've ever been on and we can all do without a bunch of nationalistic hoo-hah. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys (Where it appears the number of colours in RN Set 3 may be growing.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Timothy Dike" Subject: USS Tarawa/Saipan Jeff Hughes wrote: >> Also Santa brought me a DML Saipan, and I swear I remember an article on building the USS Tarawa/Saipan somewhere on the web but have not been able to find it. Was I dreaming? Anyone else remember this? << You might be thinking of a review of the kit itself from Navismagazine http://NAVISMAGAZINE.COM/members/1098/on-the-market/tarawa.htm Also there is a review of Gold Medal Models Photo-etch set for that ship http://NAVISMAGAZINE.COM/members/599/on-the-market/tarawaset.htm Also check out the 1/700 Tarawa Class carrier USS Nassau and DDG Arleigh Burke by Michael Taylor on the Warship website: http://warship.simplenet.com/images/Taylor/Nassau-Arleigh%20Burke.jpg mailto:Cadman@kc.net http://www.kc.net/~cadman/ "A still sea never wrought a skillful sailor" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Ernst-Bernhard Kayser Subject: Re: SAR boat "Arkona" >> Just purchased a 1/72nd scale kit of the Arkona, by Revell of Germany. Does anyone have a source of information regarding this ship or others in her class? In English, preferably. I accessed the DGzRS pages on the web and found lots of information. Unfortunately, I don't read German. << Hi Don, Nice modelling subject! The green, white, and orange of the "Seenotrettungskreuzer" is a neat contrast to the various shades of warship grey. To find out more about these little ships try this web page: http://www.sea-rescue.de/deutsch/seenotrettung.html it is bilingual. Although there is not much useful as reference to build a better model you might find it interesting anyways. You can watch 3 videos of SAR boats in rough seas, one of them depicting the "Vormann Steffen" a sister of the "Arkona". Impressive but blurry. Also, there is a newsblurp on "Arkona's" involvement in resueing 2 survivors from the capsized polish ferry "Jan Heweliusz" Unfortunately, the other pages are in German only: http://www.f-u-n.net/dgzrs/!docs/dgzrs0.html it has a nice photograph of the "Bremen", another sister of the Arcona. Click "Schiffe" (=ships), and up pops a column of ship-silouettes representing the boat classes presently in use by the DGzRS (Deutsche Gesellschaft zur Rettung Schiffbrüchiger = "German Society to Salvage the Shipwrecked"). A click on a silouette produces a tables with ship names, where they are based, and technical specifications. This is probably what you found already. "Arcona" is one of the 27m boats (2nd silouette from the top). The green column lists the names of all the ships in this class. The specifications in the yellow column translates into: Dimensions: length 27.50m width (beam) 6.53m draft 2.10m displacement 103t Propulsion: 3 propellers (3 engines delivering) 781hp, 1632hp, 781hp (respectively, adding up to) 3194hp (total) speed 23knots Equippment: FM and ? (GW=Grenzwelle) radio echo sounding gear and radar radio direction finder and DGPS (=differential global positioning system) Navtex (a telex system for nautical bulletins) and videoplotter DSC (=digital selective call, a radio telephone system) and homing autopilot pump system (to pump fire extinguisher cannons hospital Daughter Boat (this is a smaller selfrighting rescue boat carried piggyback style which is launched over stern to do the "dirty" rescue work): length 7.50m, beam 2.50m, draft 0.75m, 180hp, 17knots, radar, echo sounding gear, compass, and DGPS Clicking on "Arkona" tells you her base is in "Drasser Ort" (that's a town on the island of Rügen in the Baltic Sea), she was built in '93, the name of the Arkona's daughter boat is "Caspar", and her standing complement is 8 men. The last link http://tichy.uni-muenster.de/IGDGzRS/index.html connects you to the home page of a club solely devoted to building models of SAR boats. They only give a snail mail address but they maybe the ones who can supply you with photographs, plans, and info on your subject. Give it a try - most Germans can communicate in English and, especially the young ones, might even get a thrill out of making use of their dormant high school knowledge. Good luck with your project and happy Y2K Bernhard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: 1:350 figures Does anyone know if there is figures made in 1:350 scale other then photoetched? U.S.N. sailors. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Puckhead93@aol.com Subject: USS Ward Does anybody know what happened to the USS Ward after Pearl Harbor? Josh Mayne -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Dave Baker Subject: WARSHIP COMPARISONS For Tom Dean: My comment about the relative superiority of current USN warship designs stems, I'm afraid, from about a 40-year career (most of it professional) of studying the capabilities and characteristics of the ships and systems of our own navy and those of foreign navies, and without justifying my subjective comment with a few hundred pages of concrete examples (relax, Shane), I would just say that at the moment, the USA seems to be the ONLY country capable of the complex weapons system integration design and installation that is necessary to produce warships capable to deal with the current weapons threat. When we finally got a look at Russian warships in detail, it quickly became apparant that they had built a floating Potemkin village, with excellent weapons in some instances but with primitive weapons control systems handicapped by a backward computer industry. There are really very few surface warships being built today, and when reads of fiascos like BAe-Yarrow's recent disaster with integrating the systems in the two small frigates built for Malaysia (finally delivered in the past couple of months, about three years late, and not entirely functional, one hears) or of the continued problems with the combat system on the RN's "Duke" class (Type 23) frigates and then looks at who is invited to bid on some of the major surface programs still outstanding (essentially, you need a U.S. partner if the system is to be viable), the conclusion must be that the U.S. is several orders of magnitude ahead of any potential competition. Sorry if I've stepped on any toes--and always ready to be proven fallible. Cheers/Dave Hi Dave, With your last statement about US involvement, wouldn't finance be more the case, instead of actual skill in respect to US involvement (no offence meant to the yanks) for a project to be viable. Esp when one takes into account the costs involved. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: URUDOFSKY@aol.com Subject: Re: Nautical Nomenclature This is reply to the Dane regarding "starboard". I agree: in German it is "steuerbord" which also means steering board. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: IJN Coral Sea Colors Without doing a lot of in-depth research, it would appear likely that MYOKO and HAGURO were in Sasebo Navy Yard Gray, while SHOKAKU (and probably ZUIKAKU) were in Yokosuka Navy Yard Gray. You'll have to try to associate the DDs with one of the 4 major yards in the 1940-41 period to nail down which gray they wore. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Robert OConnor Subject: Happy New Year to SMMLies To all SMMLies- Just a note to wish you all a very happy new year, and may all of your ship models be Y2K compliant!!! Bob O'Connor, in Central Florida, where it's starting to warm up (we had our short, one week winter,now the pollen is back out and we're miserable!!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: Air Group 4 Colors By the time RANGER and Air Group 4 were operating off Norway, Air Group 9 was operating in the Pacific from ESSEX. So its safe to say only Air Group 4 participated in these raids. Air Group 9 had operated from RANGER during Operation Torch, but had returned to the states by December of 42. Air Group 9 then embarked in ESSEX during her shakedown cruise and remained on board until ESSEX went to San Francisco in early 1944 for overhaul. Eugene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Olympia >> 1. I believe there was a recent re-release of an Olympia pre-dreadnought BB. Does anyone know where one can be purchased (on or off-line). << Hi; Just as a point of interest. USS OLYMPIA is an armored cruiser, not a battleship. Chuck Duggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: Battleship 2nd Class" HN Averof >> "Battleship 2nd Class" HN Averof << Hi; Also an armored cruiser. Chuck Duggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Arthur" Subject: Millenium At 01:01:2000, 0001 LMT. I would like to take this opportunity to wish all SMMLies all the best for the new century. May all your outcomes be all that you could wish for, and that you have a safe, peaceful and meaningful existence. The new century is great ! Come on in !! Arthur NZBG Hi Arthur, Bloody Kiwis, always trying to upstage the rest of the world ;-þ Shane - still one hour away from the new year & one year from the Millenium -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Michael Eisenstadt Subject: More S&S Paint Matches Folks: Here are a few more proposed matches for Royal Navy colors, based on the Short and Snyder color chips. To my eyes, these are seem to work pretty well: B6: Aeromaster 1101, French Light Gray, lightened with a bit with Polly Scale 505011, RLM 21 White. Very nice! Western Approaches Blue: Either Polly Scale 505248, RAAF Sky Blue (perhaps with a tiny bit of Polly Scale 414260 C&O Enchantment Blue to add a bit more character), or Polly Scale RLM 21 White with a bit of Aeromaster 1101, French Light Gray. MS2: Aeromaster 1022, RLM 66 Schwarzgrau, lightened with Polly Scale RLM 21 White. MS4A: Polly Scale 505326, Pale Blue-Gray 5-P (straight from the bottle!). Anybody have any suggestions for mixing Western Approaches Green from acrylics? Again, I'd be interested to hear other people's impressions of these proposed mixes. I've not given precise proportions since each mix uses only two colors, which makes the process pretty straightforward. Simply add the second color to the first until it looks like the color on the chip (while adjusting for the fact that paint tends to darken as it dries and cures). Happy modeling, Mike Eisenstadt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Mission Capistrano I finally got my Revell Mission Capistrano kit yesterday. After waiting nearly a month. Hobbyweb FINALLY informed me they had cancelled my order because the kit was out of stock/production (like, why did they even have it listed then?). Recalling Shaya's message a few weeks ago, I dashed over to The Naval Base website and put in my order for there. In less than a week (I ordered it Christmas Day), it's here. Two thumbs up and kudos to Shaya and Co for such a quick response and some really great customer service (letting me know they received the order, et.al). Granted, I lack resources still, but from the once over I gave the kit, I have to admit it's not nearly as bad as I feared it might be. Definately a flat bottom boat (that my saw and sandpaper will solve the problem of quite nicely), but it's not quite as daunting as the Lexington-2-Oriskany project I have to follow this one up with is shaping up to be. As expected, the details seem overly simplistic, but I was surprised at how well the deck and some of the other parts fit together in a very limited dry-fit test I did a few hours ago. Overall, I believe this kit has quite a bit of potential (so long as you don't want something to build straight out of the box). Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: SMML is an International List >> we build very few ships (which is really okay, as ours are infinitely better than anyone else's and nobody else is building very many << I trust that he is speaking from a sense of pride. Maybe he said this to spin up the rest of the world. But we should remember that this is an international list, full of rightfully proud members that are willing to reach around the world to help other modellers. I look forward to reading it every day. Happy New Year Roger Clemens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Duane Fowler Subject: USN Measure 16 Thayer System Hello John, >> Does anyone have a photo of a USN ship painted in MS 16 Thayer System? << The Coast Guard used this pattern on its Greenland Patrol. There are several photos of the USCGCs Northland, Storis, Eastwind, Soutwind, etc. in measure 16. Scheina's US Coast Guard Cutters and Craft of World War II is a good reference. Interestingly, I have some photos of the Eastwind and Southwind that show the measure 16 scheme carried over to the horizontal surfaces in addition to the vertical surfaces. Best regards, Duane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Besken, Uwe" Subject: New Announcements from Skywave/PitRoad Hi, I've just found new announcement at the Skywave/PitRoad-Site in 1/700 which can be of interrest: W-52 IJN Seaplane Tender KAMIKAWA-MARU(Plan) W-xx IJN ESCORT UKURU Type B(Plan) W-xx IJN Heavy Cluiser TAKAO class TAKAO(Plan) W-xx IJN Heavy Cluiser TAKAO class ATAGO(Plan) W-xx USN Escort Aircraft Carriers CASABLANCA(Plan) W-xx IJN Destroyer MUTSUKI class MUTSUKI(Plan) W-xx IJN Submarine KAIDAI-3 class I-56(Plan) to see it choose http://member.nifty.ne.jp/pitroad/pit20e.html. I wish everybody a happy new year and no computercrash. Uwe (Germany) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Mike" Subject: SMML site update & Happy New Year! Hello again! Just to let you all know that the latest upload onto the Web site includes the Archives of 331-340, issue 775, and reviews of the GMM Soviet Warship PE and the WEM Type 42 PE. And lastly, have a Happy New Year from Lynn & I. Mike SMML Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: FYI: Ship Model Workshop This one's for anybody living in the vicinity of Washington, DC: Granddad's Hobby in Springfield, Virginia, is hosting a workshop on building resin ship models on January 9th. That's all I know about it. Was thinking about checking it out since I live so close, but I was just advised that I have the duty that weekend and will be out of town as a result. Regards, Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume