Subject: SMML VOL 778 Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:43:13 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: submarine kits 2: Re: Polly S paints 3: New Year's woes 4: Re: Phalanx improvements and new model 5: Two questions and a comment 6: Fireworks Barges 7: SUGAR JAG 8: USS Ward 9: HMS RODNEY RADARS 10: Superiority of US Navy Ships 11: Ventilators 12: Re: Polly S paints 13: More FRAM Stuff 14: Pre-Dreadnought Enthusiasts 15: Additional WWII RN Color Mixes 16: Japanese Aircraft colors 17: Ventilators 18: Waterline Mounting 19: Re: Measuring / Mixing Paint -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Happy New Year from the Naval Base -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: submarine kits >> After stumbling around the site I came across their "Combat Sub" line of 1/350th scale submarines. Pit Road is also planning the release of the following CS-6 USN SSN-571 NAUTILUS CS-7 USN SSGN-587 HALIBUT CS-8 USN SSBN-598 GEORGE WASHINGTON . They have photos of the test shots. Is there anyone here in the States going to be carrying them? << Bill Gruner of Pacific Front Hobbies has them in stock. The prices are somewhat above the Blue Water Navy prices, but I'm not complaining. Both the Nautilus (SSN-571) and Halibut are not available elsewhere in resin. I would be curious as to how the SSBN-598 compares to the Blue Water kit of the same topic. I seem to recall a review a while ago in the SubCommittee Report of the BWN kit in which the reviewer thought the hull shape was off. The early SSBN class (GW) were converted SSN Skipjack attack sub hulls, and the reviewer felt this lineage was not reflected in the kit. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Polly S paints >> Greetings from the North country. Love you magazine. Can you send me a website or address where I can contact Polly S paints? << There are no longer any Polly S paints, they are now PollyScale. May seem like I am splitting hairs, but the formulas and compositions are very different. Polly Scale is a "2nd" generation water-based paint, with a very different basis than the original PollyS. I believe the company that produced both Floquil and PollyScale paints was bought recently by Testors. Here are two sources; the first has very good prices on these paints. http://www.phoenix-model.com/polly-scale.htm http://www.internethobbies.com/ Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: New Year's woes Everybody else may have gotten through to the new year alright, but I can tell everyone that things have definately turned very bad where I live. I went out this morning and found that the corner shop WAS CLOSED! That means there was NO CIGARS. I was upset, and I had also run out of scotch; even MORE upset, and when I go to the printers early next week about the Flower CLass Corvette book,there had better be NO problems, otherwise I will have the world famous author John Lambert on my back; not a pretty sight. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Phalanx improvements and new model I read with interest about the problems the Phalanx Close In Weapon System had detecting certain targets. I have a friend who designs parts of this system for the company that build them. He sent me an interesting email addressing the problem. There is a new Block 1-B Phalanx CIWS to cure these problems incorporating a "surface mode upgrade" on the system. Below is an edited copy of an email he sent me. As most of you know, I (Flagship Models) produces a model of the earlier mark (Block 1 Baseline) configuration of this weapon. The Block 1-B (SPUM) is quite a bit different from the earlier version. I have the master patterns complete and Flagship will soon offer a kit of the new Block 1-B version as well. It's really cool looking. The edited message is below. >> The barrel clamp for the Surface Mode variant is a necessity because the Optimized Gun Barrels (OGB) are longer and heavier than the standard barrels. The "camera on top" is the PHALANX Thermal Imager or Electro-Optic (EO) device made by Pilkington Optronics in Glasgow Scotland. It is a mid-wave infrared device and is the primary detection and tracking sensor for engaging fast surface craft and low-slow aircraft. The "camera on the bottom" in some of the pictures is just a TV camera but will not be included in the production units. Instead there is a just a counter weight to offset the weight of the Thermal Imager. I guess the basic parts of the Surface Mode upgrade would be: - Optimized Gun Barrels and barrel clamp assembly - Thermal Imager and counterweight - Electro-Optic Stabilization System Those are the basic "visible" components of Surface Mode. Here's a small blurb we use a lot for Block IB. "The Block IB upgrade centers around the introduction of PHALANX Surface Mode (PSUM). PSUM allows engagement of small surface craft and low slow aircraft. PSUM will include a Thermal Imager, Automatic Video Tracker (AVT), stabilization system, manual acquisition controls, video monitors, and operating program modifications. Phalanx's primary mission of Anti-ship Missile Defense (ASMD) will be maintained even while in Surface Mode. Target kill capability is improved in Block IB through the introduction of the Optimized Gun Barrel (OGB). The OGB is a heavier construction barrel, incorporating a new twist design, is 79" long, adds interior plating to reduce barrel wear, and will increase system effectiveness by improving the ballistics of the current MK 149 ammunition and providing the capability to fire the MK 244 Enhanced Lethality Cartridge (ELC). Block IB will also incorporate an Electro-Optical Angle track capability enhancing ASMD track accuracy." << Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: TechnoInfidel@webtv.net (John Collins) Subject: Two questions and a comment SMMLmates: I inadvertantly deleted the USN Subchaser/Splinterfleet web site from my system. My search results were nil. Does anyone have this web address? You can contact me off-line if you like. Second question. My interpretation of color prints from magazines is that modern USN lifeboat have white hulls and cabins and deck grey decks. Would one of the experts please enlighten me? While I disagree with Dave Baker's opinion, he is entitled to it no matter how arrrogant it appears. However, most have taken umbrage over a perceived insult to other Navies or Sailors. Dave only said that US ships were better. Quite frankly, I don't give a damn, after all it's just his opinion. John Collins Atlanta, GA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Fireworks Barges Hi all In London we had our fireworks launched from barges moored on the Thames. These barges were towed into place by small tugs or launches. The result was a line of barges firing off an incredible display all along the Thames. What I'm interested in is how do you replicate this in a smaller scale? I presume that the barge would have to be made of some fire resistant material, but are there any small fireworks that could be used to make a reasonable working representation of one of these barges. Chris Langtree PS Best displays London and Beijing -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Dave Baker Subject: SUGAR JAG Folks; Apologies for the perceived chauvinism. Please put it down to an excess of sugar in the system, generated by overconsumption of Christmas cookies. To those who reacted violently to my somewhat ill-considered remarks , might I point out that one man's "arrogance" might just be another man's "patriotic fervor"--or even a fairly well-considered and well-grounded opinion. All things considered, however, a navy with one or two really nifty--if limited capability--frigates, even when run by some really fine sailors, is still not match for the guys with 95% if the world's aircraft carrier capacity, 99% of the world's military-controlled sealift capacity, all but four the ships in the world with the current best combat system (AEGIS), the world's largest active submarines (all nuclear-powered, too), and a worldwide command system with a bandwidth broader than the Grand Canyon. Sorry for any frayed nerves, and I'm going back into my shell and finish correcting proofs for COMBAT FLEETS. By the way, the USN does NOT have the world's best small combatants, and its capabilities in mine warfare are not exactly cutting edge, either (Gentlemen do not lay mines, and we do not care to deal with those that do), and some of our ships are not as pretty as some of yours. Happy New Year to all, and let's go build some models. Best/Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: USS Ward >> Does anybody know what happened to the USS Ward after Pearl Harbor? << Josh, I believe the Ward was converted to an APD. She was sunk in the later stages of the war off Okinawa or Iwo Jima. Pacific Front Hobbies has a book for sale about the Ward. Happy New Year, Steve Singlar Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: JOHN CURRIE Subject: HMS RODNEY RADARS Hi, Could anyone out there help me please, I am building the RODNEY at the time of the sinking of the Bismark, could anybody tell me what her Radar fit was if any at that time,(including fire control radars). I am using the beautiful etched brass set that WEM produce along with items from their superb 1/700 PRO series. Many Thanks and a Happy Y2K. John Hi gang, If anyone has imagery that can help John out here, please send to the Help Wanted page on the Web site. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Loren Perry Subject: Superiority of US Navy Ships As a former U.S. Navy serviceman myself, I have to speak in defense of David Baker's statements. Dave's confidence in his own conclusions is not misplaced. Anyone doubting this need only remember: No U.S. Navy warship has been lost in combat since World War Two. Several combatants have been hit by cruise missiles, some have struck mines, carriers have had aircraft and munitions erupt on deck, but none - repeat - none have been lost in combat. For example, the frigate U.S.S. Stark survised a devastating Exocet cruise missile explosion (the warhead actually detonated in this case) that would have sunk other ships of similar of greater size. All were repaired and returned to service. None were scrapped. A few smaller vessels were lost in collisions or other accidents thirty or forty years ago, but once again, none in combat. Errors in judgement will always be with us (friendly fire, etc.) and these are not limited to any one navy. Similar minor anomalaies will always be found. However, the Missouri's Phalanx CIWS did not malfunction as implied - it did its job, protected its ship (its first priority), and conserved its limited ammunition for a time when it really needed it. The winners in a war are usually the ones who make the fewest errors. Like most of you, I have great respect for the naval professionals of our allies (and our adversaries) around the globe. The Royal Navy, Royal Australian Navy, Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force, Bundesmarine, and others comes to mind. Their ships and weapons are excellent and all have cause to be proud of their achievements. Nevertheless, there is always going to be a "best of the best". I believe the U.S. Navy still holds this distinction, if for no other reason, than sheer size and its wide diversity of assets. I am not "politically correct", which means I am not afraid to state the obvious. (We're not nearly the navy we once were. Just the biggest and most powerful - today. But that could change one day. Things always change.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Ron Hillsden" Subject: Ventilators This is a neat trick I saw at the NAG conference in San Diego.The modeller was making hollow cowl vents. The method was to use low melting temp metal to make the part .020" undersize (cut, file or make a plaster mold and pour). He copper plated the low temp metal .020", then put the whole works in boiling water.The metal melted out leaving a copper cowl vent with an .020" wall! I know a lot of people think this is too complex to perform on the kitchen table, but it's not. And the stuff you need is neither expensive nor exotic. (I guess it can be, but I have a lot of Scottish blood and like a thrifty deal). It's a lot less grief than photoetching! The only equipment you need is already in your kitchen (you can be finished before your wife gets back from the mall) and an automotive battery charger for the electroplating. You need to buy some low temp metal (Micro Mart), copper sulphate and sulphuric acid (real hardware store), and maybe some plaster of Paris or spackle. Ron Hillsden, Victoria BC Canada My boat club: http://members.home.net/vmss/ Flags: http://members.home.net/ron-hillsden/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: Polly S paints >> Greetings from the North country. Love you magazine. Can you send me a website or address where I can contact Polly S paints? << Floquil and Polly Scale are owned by Testors. Their web page is: http://www.testors.com/ Mike Settle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Joe Costanzo Subject: More FRAM Stuff Does anyone know which hull numbers constituted type B of Gearing class FRAM I conversions? Also, I read that the standard peacetime practice for the USN in the 60's and 70's was to use deck blue for horizontal surfaces. Is this true? Thanks in advance. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Pre-Dreadnought Enthusiasts I enjoy reading about, researching and building models of early steel navy ships from the time period 1880 to about 1910. I also like to collect original photos and paintings of ships of this era. My impression is that there is a growing number of like-minded modelers out there. Also, it seems that the number and variety of models offered in resin and plastic and in varying scales is growing. And there are more PE detailing kits available, too. There are web sites that specialize on certain ships or certain wars of that period. But, I'd like to collect a list of names and email/snail mail addresses of those of you that share this nitch. This way we can focus our special or specific questions on this genre. If you want, please send your name, etc., to me OFF-LIST. After about a week, I will send a reply back to all of you so that we can have a handy list of fellow "Pre-Dreadnought Freaks." If you want, please tell me your specialties, the models you have made, and anything else you'd like to see on this subject. This tiny list is not meant to replace or supplant the SMML List. My interests are so wide that I will always enjoy ingesting my Daily Recommended Dose of SMML. I have no interest in setting up a bulletin board. Once I send this list out to ya'll, you can maintain it and add to it as you desire. Its just a jump-start. Have fun! Roger Clemens Hinsdale, Illinois -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Michael Eisenstadt Subject: Additional WWII RN Color Mixes Folks: Here is a revised and expanded list of WWII Royal Navy colors and matches based on the Short & Snyder Color Ships. Please note, I have added an alternative match for AP507C and what I believe is a fairly good match for Western Approaches Green. I think that nearly all the major colors are covered, but we still need matches for some of those MS series gray-greens (in particular, MS1, MS3, and MS4) as well as Mountbatten Pink (light and dark)! I have added my own subjective evaluation of the potential accuracy of these mixes, based on a comparison with the S&S charts. Again, proportions are not given, because in each case we are using no more than two colors, so it involves lightening or darkening a base color "by eye." I find that this works well enough for me without prescribing proportions (plus, I didn't have the time to take measurements). Please note that while you can mix Polly Scale and Aeromaster colors together, you cannot mix the Modelmaster Acryl series with any other acrylics (or so I've been told). Let me know what you think of these matches! AP507A: Polly Scale Night Black (RLM 22) lightened with Polly Scale White (RLM 21), with just a touch of Polly Scale C&O Enchantment Blue (one of their railroad colors) added to give a bluish tinge. Excellent. AP507C: Polly Scale White (RLM 21) darkened with Polly Scale Night Black (RLM 22) or, Polly Scale IJN Sky Gray straight from the bottle (the latter has a very slight bluish tinge to it, which I believe is probably more correct than the pure gray you get from mixing black and white). Exellent. B5: Polly Scale US Intermediate Blue A/N608 lightened with Polly Scale White (RLM 21). Excellent. B6: Aeromaster 1101, French Light Gray, lightened with a bit with Polly Scale White (RLM 21). Excellent. Western Approaches Blue: Either Polly Scale 505248, RAAF Sky Blue straight from the bottle (or perhaps with a tiny bit of Polly Scale 414260 C&O Enchantment Blue to add a bit more "character"), or Polly Scale White (RLM 21) with a bit of Aeromaster 1101, French Light Gray. Not bad. Western Approaches Green: Modelmaster Acryl Hellgrun (RLM 25),lightened with Modelmaster Acryl Flat White. Very Good. MS2: Aeromaster 1022, RLM 66 Schwarzgrau, lightened with Polly Scale White (RLM 21). Very good. MS4A: Polly Scale 505326, Pale Blue-Gray 5-P (straight from the bottle!). Very good. Enjoy! Yours truly, Michael Eisenstadt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Ralph Koziarski" Subject: Japanese Aircraft colors in response to the gentlman asking for IJN aircraft colors: Durring midway most of the A6ms where an overall Light gray with a black Cowl. Gunze Sayanago (or whatever they're called) makes an IJN grey which is just about right. I wouldn't use Tamiya's IJN gray for this, as it has a little bit too much green in it. Durring the Solomons campaigns some planes retained the overall grey, but it became more common-place to paint the topsides a dark green (Tamiya IJN green works well). As for bombers, the main types used at least. B5n Kates...theres film footage from very early in the war showing them already dressed in the green top gray bottom, with a yellow leading edge of the wing.D3A Vals, the dive bombers... At midway, many squadrons were still in overall light grey, with a black cowl and forward of the canopy. this tapered in as it went down to the bottom of the plane. Mind you this is very general information and not squadron specific. But i hope it gives you a good start Ralph. BTW Shane, I wish I could've been in Sydney for the new year. Wow! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Nicolas Protonotarios Subject: Ventilators To all super detailers out there, An easy, cheap and mostly safe way of hollowing out small diameters is with various sizes of injection needles. Their special tip shape and quality of metal makes them perfect for boring and penetrating even the flimsiest of tubes. It is better not to apply too much pressures and work patiently as you go deeper. Avoid using used needles for the reasons you know. Happy New whatever to all and thanks for responses on the pre-dreadnought era (Olympia cruiser etc.) Nicolas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Waterline Mounting A friend and I were looking over my Mission Capistrano kit tonight and he didn't seem too fond of my plan to cut off the bottom of the hull to turn it into a waterline kit. He felt I would lose too much hull integrity by doing this (even with the braces I discussed in an earlier message). Instead, his suggestion was to router out a hole in the base to sit the hull down into to compensating for incomplete lower hull. Even though the hull of the MO is pretty sturdy, I can see where he might have a point. Comparatively, this would be even more of a problem with my Revell Lexington-2-Oriskany conversion project because the hull included in that kit isn't as thick as the one in the MO kit. Has anyone here had any experience with this technique? My concern is how to router out a hole for the hull in the base while having it level so the ship doesn't look like it's listing to one side. With the flat-bottomed MO, this isn't as much of a problem, but with the round bottom Lex hull, I see a potential problem arrising with all of this. (Sigh)...I just wish these two kits were closer to scale with one another. It would be nice to work them up in a UNREP diorama. Unfortunately, placing the two side by side, I can see there's just too much discrepancy between the 1:535 carrier and 1:400 oiler. Like I didn't realize that before hand, but I thought it was worth a looksee. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Measuring / Mixing Paint John Currie... Where do you find glass syringes? I can comment on the use of syringes in modeling. I used to have to take allergy shots as a child and when they were discontinued, we had half a box full of unused plastic ones left over. In HS, I used these to paint fine details on ships. The needle was small enough to serve as a makeshift paint pen that was great for painting portholes, chains, etc. However, I could rarely get more than one use out of them because in the process of cleaning them, the thinner would both degrade the rubber tip on the plunger and remove the lubricant (or whatever it is that permitted the plunger to move up and down the tube easily). Had it not been for these being left overs (that would've been thrown away eventually anyhow) it's unlikely I would've learned about this trick. The use of a glass syringe though would seem to make a lot more sense. My grandmother used to have one in our medicine cabnet when I was growing up (that she had to use for injections years before) with a variety of different sized needles. After my experience with the plastic ones, I saw the potential, but was bluntly told "don't even think about it". I tried to find one back in the '80s, but was unable to find any place that would sell me one without a perscription from my doctor. The pharmacies and medical supply shops I located all told me that due to their popularity with drug addicts, they couldn't sell them without a perscription. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Happy New Year from the Naval Base I have noticed that the 400 Naval Ship set from GMM has parts on there for many Revell 1/400 ships. Such as the M. Capistrano and Pine Island to mention just a few that you can Find this NEW YEAR 2000 at Naval Base Hobbies. Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume