Subject: SMML VOL 781 Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 00:14:27 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Waterline Marking Gauge 2: Re: Foriegn vendors 3: Re: Perry Class answers 4: Re: Model Shipways Paints 5: Low Melt Metal 6: Small World 7: Japanese and R/N Paint Colors 8: US Navy, best ships? 9: FIGHTING FLEETS IN MINIATURE 10: Re: Two Old Ladies 11: Sea Stories 12: Modern Warship References 13: Who's ships are best? 14: USS Ward Colors 15: USN Superiority 16: USS Juneau 17: Re: Superiority of USN 18: Soviet Foxtrot & Juliett Class Submarines. 19: Re: Museum Notice 20: The bad news......... 21: Humorous Look at Simulating Life onboard a Submarine at Home 22: SMMLcon Planning Meeting and ? 23: Re: Pre-Dreadnought Enthusiasts 24: Sprung PE 25: Re: Emerald Class Cruiser 26: Looking for source for specific reference books 27: HMS Sheffield camox2 28: Re: Exercise Ocean Safari 29: Re: Made in the US...?? 30: Re: submarine kits 31: Re: Happy New Year 32: BSW 33: Info on T 23 please... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: APMA meeting 2: USS Hornet meeting this week 3: Ship Models "For Sale" list 4: Model Expo Specials 5: Western Ship Model Conference and Exhibit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Tom Eisenhour Subject: Waterline Marking Gauge Greetings gang, I just wanted to share a couple of excellent suggestions that were sent to me privately by list members. (Since I haven't asked their permission, I won't mention their names out of respect for their privacy): "I believe MicroMark sells what you want, but why not make one? Drill a hole through a block of wood at the right height and run a pencil through the hole. Then, just slide it around the mounted model on a table. I have one I made that is adjustable, but half the time I end up holding a pencil against the top of a paint jar or even a stack of wood scraps to get the height I want. It works just as well." "I used a set of straight calipers. Set the height and ran the one end along the base and the other along the hull." Thanks guys and also to Tom Dougherty, who is surely one of the most helpful people on the list. (My solution was to order one from The Modeler's Boatyard web site for US$18.49.) Regards, Tom Eisenhour -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Foriegn vendors >> Hey! Does this mean the almighty US Navy has to rely on another country for an essential part of a weapons system? Shock horror! Especially bearing in mind recent comments about the US Navy! << I thought with the sudden burst of "who is best" I would throw that in. Glad to see someone picked it up. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: JOHN A BURCH Subject: Re: Perry Class answers >> Is the entire FFG-7 deck non skid? << >> The Perry class decks I believe are all nonskid material (or a coating of non skid paint) except for the helopad and mast decks. << I believe, but don't know for an absolute certainty, that the platforms on the various masts of PERRY Class FFGs are provided with non-skid. I am certain, however, that the Flight Deck and Hangar Deck are coated with extra heavy non-skid; as installed, this non-skid stands up in waves up to nearly an inch high. The heavier texture of this non-skid accounts for the darker color compared to other non-skid decks, as seen in overhead photos of PERRY Class ships. John Burch Gaithersburg, MD USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Model Shipways Paints >> Has anyone from Snyder and Short seen the colors yet? << Nope! John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Tom Werner Hansen" Subject: Low Melt Metal Has anybody tried using this metal instead of resin in silicone (RPV) moulds? I have a bit of experience doing this, but keep having trouble with the resin shrinking when cured. Is ordinary white metal too hot for RPV moulds? Tom W -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Small World I put together a book during the last 1000 years, on the Essex Class Carriers. Published by the Institute Press, and across pages 154 and 155 there is set of plans for the Oriskany. They should be halfway accurate. The vol is out of print and therefore you may have to search long and then pay a fortune to get a copy. This is because the publisher ---------WON'T REPRINT, DO YOU HEAR ME!!!!!!! I hope that this helps a little. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Japanese and R/N Paint Colors Young grass color; BAMBOO is a grass, did you know that? In our garden we have a hybrid grass, due to the constant action of one cocker spaniel. Corticene; does it match Nestles brand (English type from a 1939 time frame)? As for having a sample of pre-war Japanese lino, this would not be as accurate as having a sample of the actual pre-war nestles bar. So the latter is what you should strive to locate. There must be somebody on this list with such a sample, WELL? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Bill Code" Subject: US Navy, best ships? gee's, I must be really out of it to into this discussion but,,being an old salt who worked the deck of USS Nimitz many years back...well stupid is as stupid does ..As a large fleet the US has the firepower to bring to a conflict at sea assets no other navy can bring to bear. Having said that it doesn't mean they build the best ships class by class..I can tell you of looking astern and seeing a Virginia class cruiser riding the swells very well with very little pitching back and forth..then looking at a Ticodoroga class cruiser rolling her guts out in the same seas..Sure she has a greater punch to her weapons suite but she wouldn't be any fun to serve aboard with all that top hamper. My point is there are many things that make a warship class a good ship. A Seawolf class attack sub has a great offensive punch with her mark 48 torpedoes and her greater magazine capacity..but take her into the shallows of the continental shelf and I'd rather have a nice small and Quite German diesel boat as a mount . the list goes on...We thought the Japanese were all a bunch of nearsighted ,bucktoothed heathens flying biplanes before Pearl Harbor. Turned out we were the nearsighted ones. I think the most important thing is the Captain and his crew when it comes down to fighting a ship. regards, Bill Code -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Leslie Brown" Subject: FIGHTING FLEETS IN MINIATURE The Christmas holidays gave me the opportunity to sort out some of the many magazine collections that I have. One set that I did manage to list all the warship articles from was Model Boats and this includes a series Fighting Fleets In Miniature by Michael Ainsworth. The first article appeared in April 1966 and the last one I have is No 257, published in March 1994. These articles covered a wide range of warships from many different countries and always included a 1:1200 scale drawing. As well as historical details, the articles usually included paint schemes and, occasionally, modelling suggestions for 1:1200 scale. The articles originally appeared on a monthly basis but towards the end became much less frequent. Anyhow, to my request. There are a few articles missing from my collection and I would really appreciate it if I could either obtain copies or borrow the magazines so that I could scan the missing ones. The list below gives the numbers of those which are missing from my collection together with the issue of Model Boats which I believe contained them. No 2 May 1966 No 4 July 1966 No 6 September 1966 No 7 October 1966 No 13 April 1967 No 14 May 1977 No 157 No obvious date as 156 and 158 appeared in consecutive months No 162 October 1979 No 185 September 1981 No 186 October 1981 If anybody can help I would be most grateful, and of course if anybody knows of any later ones than 257? Thanks in advance. Les Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: QuanMT@gvl.esys.com Subject: Re: Two Old Ladies Hello Everyone! After being initially misled by the title into thinking that this might be about SMML's version of the infamous British cooking show, (Two Fat Ladies), I found an article to truly admire. May I offer Chris Drage my heartfelt congratulations on a stunning D-Day diorama and excellent article! Thanks to Caroline for posting it also. Oh to be able to see this work firsthand! I do have a question for the ever-patient, and skillful Mr. Drage, however: What happened to the blast bags on the main armament on the HMS Rodney? cheers, Mike Quan cold & windy in North Central Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Sea Stories Caroline Carter forwarded: >> The date is September 1985 and the event is Exercise Ocean Safari. << Ah, memories! We experienced Ocean Safari '85 living in tents while manning a radar post on Deer Island in Boston Harbor. (Deer Island consisting roughly of one-third landfill,one-third city prison compound, and one-third raw sewage treatment plant.) That was really pleasant. : ) >> American ships leave an awful lot to be desired in their seakeeping qualities. << More memories! As the old DDG rolled and pitched beneath our feet in the North Arabian Sea, the conning officer (a salty LDO) staggered towards me and said "You know, she rides like a gutshot pig!". I believe the bridge watch that night went on to log a few 30 degree rolls, sufficient enough for my little portable alarm clock to become airborne and smash against the opposite bulkhead. >> In a war you cannot gaurantee flat calm all the time. << But the USAF must be expecting a nice long dry spell, otherwise why would they have designed a billion-dollar bomber (the B-2) that can't fly in the rain? : ) Mike L Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Modern Warship References I won't attempt to vouch for their consistency or quality, as sometimes they are terrible, but a few other magazines that have useful information concerning modern ships include: Proceedings (available from the US Naval Institute) Surface Warfare (available from the US Government Printing Office) All Hands (same as above) Scale Ship Modeler (Challenge Publications) Sea Classics (Challenge Publications) Does APMA have a web site? I did a search on "APMA" and got such useful leads as the American Podiatric Medicine Association and the Australian Pump Manufacturers Alliance. Mike L Alexandria, VA USA Hi Mike, Yup, that's one of the hassles with the acronym. Try the following: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Edward Brown" Subject: Who's ships are best? This really is a pointless arguement as, quite clearly, the USN is the best. The question of are their ships are qualatively better than, say RN ships, really is of no consequence at all. So why why waste one's breath. Modern warfare is all about industrial capacity. The USA's industrial might has enabled it to construction of a Navy which is significantly larger and, overall, more capable (carriers) than any other navy or probably any combination of navies. That same industrial capability will enable the USA to wage war for a significantly longer period than any potential opponent. Other navies may well win battles but, enevitably the USA will, for the moment, win the war. It was of no matter whether USN ships were "better" than IJN ships in WW2. This was a modern industrial war where the USA's victory was due to attrition of assets, which Japan did not have the ability to replace. This is illustrated by the delivery of contemporay Aircraft Carrier Classes. Japan only managed to complete 3 Unryu Class carriers none of which saw active service due to lack of fuel, aircraft and trained pilots. Meanwhile the USA were building 24 Essex Class carriers of which 16 (?) completed and were fully equiped in time to see active service. It does not matter whether the Essex's were technically "better" than the Unryu's or vice versa. The weight of numbers which actually played a part in the conflict is the keyfactor. Industrial might delivered victory. The Battle of the Atlantic was largely fought and won by the Commonwealth Navies. However, the USA can claim to have won this battle as victory was heavily underwritten by their industrial capacity. eg production of Liberty ships to replace merchant ship losses and Escort Carriers to enable complete air coverage. However, the War in the Pacific was of similar weapon system (until the introduction of the bomb). The Atlantic War was of quite different weapon systems - surface ship verus submarine. It is significant that at the Wars end, the type XX1 Uboats, together with target seeking torpedoes, were more than a match for Allied surface combatants. But it did not matter. Industrial might had already delivered victoty. Incidently, the quality of USN tactics, in the Atlantic, was initially largely inferior to the Commonwealth navies on entry into the War eg reluctance to adopt the convoy system and consequent heavy losses. But it did not affect the outcome of the War. Conflict also highlights that comparisons of the merits of individual ships is a total nonsense. It could be argued that Bismark was superior to both the RN's "most powerful" and modern battleship on the basis of results against Hood and Prince of Wales. But it did not matter. She was unequal to the attentions of a bi-plane of uncertain vintage!!!!! America's own, very brief, history perfectly underlines this arguement. The Confederate Army had the best generals, Lee, Jackson etc and, argueably the best troops, (qualative) on the grounds of all of their major victories were against superior forces yet, enevitably, lost the war. Why? Because they could not match the man power (numbers) and industrial might (regenerative capacity) of the Union. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: USS Ward Colors Steve Wiper noted about his USS WARD: >> In the painting instructions, it also states to paint the ship Navy Blue (5-N), where all ships present at Pearl Harbor from about October 1941, on were painted in this fashion, evidence through the color photos recently found. << There was much interest in this subject here just about a month ago. I recently happened to be looking over "Pearl Harbor Recalled: New Images of the Day of Infamy" by James P. Delgado (Naval Institute Press 1991). The book contains many fine paintings by maritime artist Tom Freeman, showing AYLWIN, MONAGHAN, and ST LOUIS to be painted overall Navy Blue, while ARIZONA, OKLAHOMA and the other battleships seem to wear Measure 1 but with the Dark Gray replaced by Navy Blue, as was suggested by several SMML contributors. WARD is depicted in this same scheme, with the masts and upper stacks in Haze Gray and everything below in Navy Blue. The profile in "USS Ward: The First Shot" (Leeward Publications 1977) shows solid Navy Blue and describes it as Measure 21, but then I noticed that Measure 21 didn't come out until the June 1942 revision to SHIPS-2! Could it be that we should interpret that to mean Measure 11 was altered to replace Sea Blue with Navy Blue but the name remained the same? Mike L Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "John Rule" Subject: USN Superiority Let me say that this thread is taxing my pathetic typing skills. However I cannot drop it as people keep adding insult to injury. 1. Yes! I agree that the USN is by far the most powerful navy in the world. 2. That does not mean that all of its individual ships or classes are better than everyones ships or classes of ship. 3. The USN provided the main naval contribution to defeating the Japanese in WWII but not to defeating Italy or Germany. The US industrial production was probably the single biggest contributor to defeating the axis. 4. IMHO the USN is and always has been vastly superior to the Soviet (or now Russian Navy). Unfortunately the US citizens were duped into believing that the Russian threat was greater than it was in order to promote funding for the USN and other arms of the military. 5. I hope this thread doesn't go on much longer, I'm getting callouses on my fingers. 6. Peace comes from diplomacy not military threat. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Paul O'Reilly Subject: USS Juneau Greetings All, I'm contemplating building the Atlanta class cruiser USS Juneau in 1/700 so I checked into the local hobby shop to see what was available. They had four variants; the Matchbox kit, a DML kit, a Dragon kit and one by a company called Destroy. The DML and Dragon kits (which I believe are from the same molds) seem to have an odd shape to the main armament, the 5" 38 cal guns. I couldn't open the Matchbox kit or the Destroy versions so I don't know what they were like, although I've read that the Matchbox was old technology and needed lots of work. I've never heard of Destroy before so I expect it's a clone from an existing mold. Does anyone have any suggestions as to which kit would build into the Juneau which is one of the early Atlanta's. Paul O'Reilly Winnipeg, MB Hi Paul, Dragon & DML are the same company. They had to change from Dragon to DML to oerate in the states. They now also have a subsideray called Shangai Dragon as well, just to confuse matters. Their Atlanta is ex Skywave. Haven't heard of Destroy, sorry. IIRC, the Skyway kit is better than the Matchbox kit. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: DaveRiley1@aol.com Subject: Re: Superiority of USN John_Impenna writes: >> Facts are facts and if they tick people off, so be it. << I know I'm going to regret saying this, but: Geeezzz!!!! As some of us used to say when we were on active duty - YGTBSM!!! Reveille!!!!! I am disappointed his remarks were allowed to appear. Dave Riley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Dengar Subject: Soviet Foxtrot & Juliett Class Submarines. Hi SMML, Has anyone taken detail exterior photographs of these Museum boats? I'm looking for deck and conning tower detail on both vessels,any assistance would be very appreciated. Thanks Gary McGee -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Museum Notice >> "Design work is nearly 60% complete on a 3500 sq. ft. exhibit focused on Cold War submarines and submarine operations. The exhibit, titled Fast Attacks and Boomers: Submarines in the Cold War, will open April 12, 2000 in the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History in Washington D.C." << The DESIGN work is 60% complete??? They better hustle to make an April 12 deadline. Some members of the SubCommittee were approached by, I believe, this same group about building static models for this exhibit. We ended up passing on it because they wanted 1:192 scale (which would have entailed custom scratch building) and had killer deadlines (like they approached us in May and wanted the completed models by September). We tried to talk them into 1:350 scale so we could use pre-existing resin kits, but no........ Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: The bad news......... First, the bad news: I host the warship camouflage website on my personal webspace at earthlink.net. I was informed that I have exceeded my disk space limit and must remove data imediately for face many $$$$ in webspace charges. What's worse is that I had not even finished loading the current data that I have; never mind the data I am still working on and plan to add within the next few weeks. So, for now, I will be forced to close the Warship Camouflage Website until I can find a new home for it to live on. John Sheridan Visit my USN Ship Camo site at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jrsheridan/ I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Ed Grune Subject: Humorous Look at Simulating Life onboard a Submarine at Home From the official US Navy Submarine Centennial website: http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/submarines/sub100.html Life Aboard A Submarine� If you have never served aboard a submarine or do not know anyone who is or was a submariner, then this list may help you understand what life aboard a submarine is all about (Well..sort of anyway.) If you are a submarine veteran, you will probably find much to laugh about in the unique world of submarine life. These are but a few of the ways to experience (on the lighter side) life aboard a submarine. These are but examples, used for reference only, not for actual demonstration purposes. Read at your own risk. 1. Spend as much time as you can indoors during the daytime, stay out of direct sunlight. Go to work only before sunrise and come home after sunset. 2. Paint everything around you Sea Foam Green (Navy NSN Green, no substitutions) or Off-White to be sure you are living in a clean, happy environment. Every Friday, set an alarm on loud for a short, but hated, drill sound. Then get up and manned only with a bucket, sponge and a greeny. Clean one area over and over, even if it is already spotless. 3. Eat food that you can only get out of a can and requires water in order to eat it. Empty out your refrigerator and turn the temperature control down, turning the refrigerator into a freezer. Get rid of all fresh fruits and vegetables. 4. Repeat back everything spoken to you. Repeat back everything spoken to you. 5. Sit in your car for six hours at a time with the motor running. Keep hands on the wheel. But don�t leave your driveway. Log readings of your oil pressure, water temperature, speedometer and odometer every 15 minutes. 6. Put Lube Oil in your humidifier instead of water. Set it on high. 7. Buy a trash compactor; use it only once a week. Store the rest of the garbage in your bathroom. 8. Don�t watch movies except in the middle of the night. Have your family vote on which movie to watch, then show a different one. 9. Have the paperboy give you a standard Navy haircut. 10. Take hourly readings on your water and your electric meters. But only for a six hour period. 11. Sleep with your dirty laundry. 12. For you old mechanics, set your lawn mower in the middle of the living room while it is running. Only for six hours a day. 13. Invite guests but don�t prepare enough food for everyone. Serve food cold. Limit the time they sit at the table to 10 minutes. 14. Wake up at midnight every night and make a peanut butter sandwich, use stale bread. Better yet, make your own bread but cut 3 inch thick slices and use these. Optional: warm up some canned Ravioli or soup. 15. Make your family a menu for the week without knowing what food is in the cabinets. 16. Set your alarm clock for various times at night; adjust the volume to the maximum. When it goes off, jump out of bed, get your clothes on as fast as you can, run outside and grab the garden hose. Then go back to bed and do it all again when the alarm goes off. 17. Once a month take apart every appliance completely and then put them back together. 18. Use 18 scoops of coffee per pot and allow it to sit for 5 to six hours before drinking it. 19. Invite at least 85 people you really don�t like and have them stay for a couple of months. 20. Store your eggs in the garbage for two months and then cook a dozen each morning. 21. Have a fluorescent lamp installed under your coffee table and lie underneath it to read books. 22. Put a complicated lock on your basement door and wear the key around your neck on a special chain. 23. When making cakes, prop up one side of the pan when cooking. Use extra icing to level it off. 24. Every so often, yell "EMERGENCY DEEP!" run into the kitchen and sweep all pots, pans and dishes off of the counters onto the floor, and then yell at your wife for not having the kitchen area "Stowed for Sea!" 25. Put on the stereo headphones (don�t plug them in), go to the stove and stand in front of it. Say (to no one in particular) "Stove manned and ready" stay there for 3 to 4 hours. Say (once again and to no one in particular) "Stove secured", then role up your headphone cord and put them away. 26. Pull out your refrigerator and clean behind it for 4 hours and then put it back when you are done. Have your wife come and check every 10 minutes with a flashlight to see how you are doing. 27. When doing your laundry fill it only 1/3 full, sit in front of your washing machine in your underwear and read a book or magazine you�ve read at least 5 times before in the last week. When the wash is done, only run the dryer for half the normal time. 28. Fix-up a shelf in your closet that will serve as your bunk for the next six months. Take the door off of the hinges and replace them with curtains. While asleep, have family members shine a flashlight in your eyes at random intervals and say either "Sign this!" or "Sorry, wrong rack!" 29. If you can do these. You can do just about anything! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: SMMLcon Planning Meeting and ? Hi listmembers, Now that the y2k dust has settled and I worked up enough courage to turn on my pc (after I saw my digital watch suffered no ill effects) its time to return to fun work. Any local smmlies in the Boston area are invited to attend the next planning meeting for smmlcon y2k this Saturday. Just let me know and Ill forward the meeting info. SMMLcon is gonna be fun. Now, a for real on topic question. This ought to be easy for for you paint experts. What paint colors were used and what are the best matches for HMS Glorious in mid 1930's. See, this should be easy. Easier than finding plans for a Terrebone County class LST (which the search for has gone to the ((shiver)) National Archives.) And so my fellow F*****R Class affectionados won't feel left out, early war (1939-40) Canadian F*****rs appeared to be painted a dark grey, ???? (any ideas?). John Frohock USNSM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Re: Pre-Dreadnought Enthusiasts In response to my request for all of you that like pre-dreadnoughts, etc. from 1880 to about 1905 or so, I have received replies from 6 different countries. I will send out our list of names and emails in a week or so. If you want to be included on the list of P-D Freaks, contact me off List. By the way, we are doing this in addition to our interest in the SMML. None of us want to mess with Shane's fine efforts! Roger Clemens Hinsdale, Illinois -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Sprung PE I got a brass set in the mail today, but my postal carrier apparently can't read. The package clearly stated "do not bend" and guess where I found it...stuff in the mailbox with a definate [*** Censored ***] bend to the package. The sheet is in overall good shape...no major damage (whew!). None of the parts were severed from the sheet. What I have are a few parts that were bent slightly out of shape and the two sheets now have a definite upward curve as though they've been sprung. After doing some minimal damage control (carefully smoothing out the dented end and smoothing out the dings of the parts), I placed the sheet in the middle of a large book and placed a heavy weight atop of it. I suspect this is going to be a non solution though because the metal will remember the sprung shape. I've read a lot about how to bend PE, but nothing on how to make it lie flat again (there's a seaplane catapult located in the entire span of the sprung area that reallly does need to be flat again). Any suggestions on how to deal with this, or am I going to have to wait and work the problem when I build the kit? Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Emerald Class Cruiser Hi, Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any models of HMS Emerald or HMS Enterprise in 1/700 scale, much less 1/350. There have been 1/1250 models of at least the Emerald, most recently by Neptun, and, more to the point, Argonaut once made models in 1/1250 scale of the Spanish cruisers Galicia, Almirante Cervera, and Miguel de Cervantes. I hope that some day there will be models of the Spanish cruisers in 1/700 if not 1/350, since, in my opinion, they were beautiful ships. Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "ERIC OLSON" Subject: Looking for source for specific reference books Recently I found two very good reference books that were very reasonably priced for the quality. However, some friends of mine want some and I can't seem to find a retail outlet. The books were published by W.R.Press, Inc., of New York in 1998 (there are no ISBN numbers in the publisher pages). They are from a series entitled, "Warship Perspectives." The two books which I found are: "Fletcher, Gearing & Sumner Class Destroyers in World War Two," by Jeffery J. Herne "Atlanta Class Cruisers in World War Two, " by Glenn R. Arnold They are soft cover in landscape format with 80 pages, lots of B&W detail photos, color camouflage drawings, color paint blocks (printed, not chips) in the destroyer book, and line drawings. All for only US$11.99 plus tax, each. Does anybody know where I can find a retail source for these books? I tried looking up the publisher in New York, but no luck. Without any ISBN numbers it's hard to ask booksellers if they have the books or can acquire them. Also, are there any other titles in the "Warship Perspectives" series? I purchased the two books at ModelExpo in Hollywood, Florida, but they told me they stocked them by mistake and don't normally carry them. I purchased the last copies they had. Kinda dumb not to regularly stock them when they sold like wildfire just lying on the sales counter. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Eric O.... Hi Eric, You're in luck. Both of those authors are on the SMML list, along with WRPress. If the following sites don't help, I'm sure they'll chime in & tell you where you can pick up their books ;-)). Check out the following sites, they may be able to help(didn't have time to check myself): Pacific Front: http://www.pacificfront.com/ White Ensign: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models Floating Drydock: http://floatingdrydock.com/ Naval Base: http://www.navalbasehobbies.com/ Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Keith Butterley Subject: HMS Sheffield camox2 Hi group, Can any one provide me with info on HMS Sheffield's camo at the time of the Barents Sea dust up(Dec42)? I am given to understand that it changed around this time, but I don't know if before or after the scuffle. I would also like to know if any one can shed some light on the possiblity of her wearing some undocumented camo scheme when she helped re-arrange Genoa's docks(Feb 41). If not undocumented, then what scheme was she in. Thanks in advance Keith Butterley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Jowfx@cs.com Subject: Re: Exercise Ocean Safari Just a few comments in response to Caroline's anonymous post. First off, the writer states that "Had those Harriers been bombed up and hostile, they could have gone to the Eisenhower and the America unoppossed and sunk them there and then. BANG GONE." I have to wonder if the Harriers would have been able to launch, had they been "bombed up". Would they really be able to carry enough ordinance to inflict any serious damage to the US carriers? Illustrious probably had what about 10 at the most Sea Harriers aboard. Wouldn't at least some of those be kept back for self defense? Also just because the US carriers didn't carry out flight ops, it doesn't mean that they would be incapable of doing so. I have been involved in exercises where ops were cancelled due to the weather. It doesn't mean we were incapable of doing so. The commanders decided that a peace time exercise wasn't worth the risk. If there were a real attack on the carriers, you can bet that they would get planes up. Also the Sea Harriers would have to get by the Aegis ships. There is more than one layer of defense for a carrier group. As for the Bear intercept by the RN SeaKing,(American design BTW), the US carriers both carry them. I would think that is just so happened that the RN SeaKing was in a better position for the intercept. (Pretty cool thing BTW, I'd liked to have seen their faces too!) And in regards to seaworthy ships, I agree that the beamier ships of the RN (as well as others) probably are smoother riding ships. (I actually spent a few days on a Brazillian Niteroi class frigate built by Vosper Thornycraft. To be honest, I really don't remember much about the ride, but I don't recall anything adverse.) You have to remember though, both USS Stark and HMS Sheffield were hit by Exocets. Stark survived, Sheffield didn't. Being able to retain that seaworthiness when battle damaged is an important note. During my enlistment, I had the opportunity to spend time on the ships of some of our allies. They were all extremely professional and competent. They were all proud of their ships as they should be, as we all should be. And on a modelling note, I am still working on my Skywave Spruance cl. Thorn DD-988. John Fox Hi John, Yup, me again with some comments ;-) In regards to the Stark & Sheffield, may I suggest that being in the South Atlantic & a declared war-zone, as opposed to the Persian Gulf (IIRC, the stark was hit whilst escorting tankers in the mid 80s??), with friendly bases close by, may also have been a factor in respect to the survivalbility of both ships. The Sheffield was far from home, with no base close by for assistance ie: tugs, in some of the worst seas that there is. Whilst, the gulf is calm by comparsion, seawise. That's not to take away from the job that both ship's Damage Control crews did. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Made in the US...?? The Phalanx camera isn't the first non-US item aquired by the USN, and I doubt if it will be the last. Letmesee, prior to WWII we couldn't develop a decent rapid-fire AA gun to save our souls, so we adopted the Swiss Orkelon 20mm and Swedish 40mm Bofors. An irony to be sure given both of those nations were neutral in WWII. In recent years the USN has adopted the Oto Melara 76mm gun (which I'd really like to see fire 85 rounds per minute as advertised...man, that would be impressive). Radar and Sonar both came from the British if I remember correctly. The Perry cl FFs, Pegasus cl PHMs, and a few of the Ashville cl PGs use(d) a fire control radar derived from a Dutch type. Without three great British inovations - steam catapults, angled deck, and mirror landing system our supercarriers would probably look more like huge WWII types (and naval jet aviation wouldn't be what it is today). Okay, most of these items are/were stamped made in America, but they sure as heck didn't orginate over here (and that's a point in itself). _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: cwlam Subject: Re: submarine kits >> After stumbling around the site I came across their "Combat Sub" line of 1/350th scale submarines. Pit Road is also planning the release of thefollowing CS-6 USN SSN-571 NAUTILUS CS-7 USN SSGN-587 HALIBUT CS-8 USN SSBN-598 GEORGE WASHINGTON . They have photos of the test shots. Is there anyone here in the States going to be carrying them? << Pitroad had available at least 17 different 1/350 submarines kits that I am aware of, although many are currently out of production. I have the USS Grayback, USS Halibut, USS George Washington, and USSR Juliette class. The Pitroad George Washington kit comes as a single piece casted hull. It does not appear to need much clean up, e.g. no hugh plug that is characteristic of the BWN subs that I have. The sail is separate resin piece, as are the hatch covers. The hatches can be positioned open or close. The casting on these pieces contain more flash than usual for Pitroad, but these should be easily cleaned. The periscopes and the propeller are white metal. The kit also includes a couple of brass rods for antenna. There is also one polaris missile. I can't speak to the accuracies of the hull as I have no information on "real" dimensions. It looks like a submarine... I brought my kit about 4 months ago. They should be available in the US by now. Chung -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: Happy New Year >> Happy New Year from sunny--if chilly--Sacramento, California (where it should be raining and we're going to have a serious drought next summer if it doesn't start soon). << Happy New Year from sunnier, not quite as chilly, Los Angeles. Where if it don`t rain soon we will be going to Sacramento to borrow a cup of water next summer. Chuck Duggie (busy trying to pack 1200+ books and a garage full of models by Jan.30) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: BSW I downloaded a number of earlier volumes from the SMML archive site looking for any earlier discussions on the Mission Capistano kit (which BTW I did). In vol 313, there's a mention of a company in San Diego that offered a kit of a WWII era T3 Cimarron cl Oiler called "Bureau of Small Warships" (that in an earlier volume someone said all they produce are models of 1/700 scale ships - mostly USN destroyers). Out of curiosity, is this company still around? I don't remember it having been mentioned on the list since I joined. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org Hi Derek, Unfortunatelt, BSW closed up shop lin May last year. Mainly IIRC, because the owner just didn't get the same enjoyment out of it as he once did. I think you may still be able to pick some up, if you dig around a bit. They were on the whole, from what I've read rather nice kits. BTW, if anyone has any comment on the SMML site, good or bad, please let Mike & myself know. Apart from the big gap in the back issues that is :-(. Shane PS: Just found the issue & fwded it to you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: "Ingebrethsen, Kyrre" Subject: Info on T 23 please... I bought the Heller 1:400 T23 the other day thinking references would be easypeasy to find on the web. Bummer. Not a thing. Was this such an insignificant little boat that there really is nothing to say about it? Looking at the box cover and the painting scheme I should think it was operated in northern waters - nevertheless I have found nothing about it searching through my few books on the Kriegsmarine. Could anyone fill me in on the history of the ship (short recap will do) and the accuracy of the painting instructions? Is it possible to convert this into T24, a more famous craft with a connection to the Coastal Command Strike Wings (Read: Sunk by...)? Thanx in advance, Kyrre Harstad, Norway, -9C, CAVOK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Shane Subject: APMA meeting Hi gang, This Saturday see the first APMA meeting of the year. If you're in Sydney, you're welcome to attend. Check the website for details or email me. Regards, Shane APMA VP http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Ken Durling Subject: USS Hornet meeting this week HI folks - Got the card announcing our meeting out yesterday - hopefully you Bay Area SMMLies will all get it on time, but I just wanted to back it up with this note. This should be a very interesting meeting: Duane Fowler, one of our very own VP's, will give us a presentation on making decals using the ALPS. I am personally really looking forward to this! Let's offer our prayers to the traffic gods, so that Mr. Fowler can make his 2-hour commute with no delays. Thank you so much, Duane, we really appreciate your effort. My apologies to anyone who came last month and couldn't find the meeting. We got pre-empted from the Chief's Mess to the Wardroom (I had signs up, but not sufficient, sorry!) because of their XMas party, but we are back in CPO this month. Turn left on the hangar deck and go all the way back. The meeting is Friday night at 7:30 on the ship. Please feel free to e-mail me for details. Ken Durling IPMS/USS Hornet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Ship Models "For Sale" list I am putting together a list of ship models I am selling to make some space in my office. Contact me off list if you're interested. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Conan35@aol.com Subject: Model Expo Specials Model Expo has just added an additional 20 US Navy warship pre-mixed paint colors to our web site. These colors are fully tested for accuracy and quality, and are based on the great Snyder & Short Color Chip Sheets (which we sell also). Also, new sale items: Sultana Plain Box Special, No. MS2016PB (a wooden kit being discontinued). Moskva by Airfix - Soviet 1/2 Cruiser, 1/2 Carrier No. AX5202, list $19.99, Sale $6.99 LeSuroit, Titanic Search Vessel by Heller No. HEL80615, list $19.99, Sale $12.99 All at http://www.modelexpoinc.com Best Regards Rob Finley Web Site Mgr. Model Expo, Inc. - Serving hobby enthusiasts everywhere since 1974 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Western Ship Model Conference and Exhibit Hi All, There is the Western Ship Model Conference and Exhibit to be held aboard the Queen Mary, Long Beach, California over the dates March 31, April 1 & 2, 2000. The details are at website: http://www.ship-modelers-assn.org/index.htm This show was brought to my attention by a father and son team of naval architects and historians from mainland China, Mr. CHEN Shou-cheng and Mr. CHEN Yong-zhu. They intend to attend that exhibition as contestants and will bring their models of Chinese junks of historical interest. One of the model junks will be a four masted ocean going junk which was the lead ship of a fleet that brought a princess of the (Mongol) Yuan imperial household in China to wed the Mongol prince of the western khanate (1293). The imperial envoy(s) was none other than Marco Polo and the elder Polos on their final journey back to Venice and into history. I will try to provide further details of their exhibits as I receive them from the Chens. This will be the Chen's first trip to the States. If I may ask are there any SMMLies in or near Long Beach who would be willing to perhaps provide any assistance that they may require as regards to preparations or even to meet them? I haven't met the Chens myself and they found me through the INTERNET last June. The younger Chen knows English. We had corresponded since then and I shall be seeking avenues to get the older Chen's life work on Chinese junks published. Thanks in advance. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume