Subject SMML VOL 783 Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 00:50:29 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: 5" guns in 1:700 2: Post War Carrier Flight Decks 3: Quality of Navies 4: Re: HMS HOOD 5: Re: Destroyer identification 6: Re: USN Adages (was PERRY Class non-skid) 7: KIROV and other cruisers 8: Hood, Sirs a'plenty 9: Kirov 10: HMS Hood 11: Re: WWII Surcouf Submarine 12: Re: Beware of Viking models 13: Re: Revell Ticonderoga model answers 14: 5" guns in 1:700 15: Re: Sea Tec Models 16: Re: Aircraft questions 17: Superior Navies-- my 2cents 18: Re: Ships in action in Operation Weserübung 19: Re: Ships in action in Operation Weserübung 20: Best Navy Thread 21: Things With Wings (Re: Made in USA) 22: Aircraft Questions 23: Its not all about industry 24: Re: USS Missouri gun tubs 25: Re: USS TEXAS 26: Next Project 27: Re: Surcouf 28: USS INDEPENDENCE CVL-23/A-BOMB TESTS 29: Defective Heavy Cruiser 30: USS Enterprise 31: Re: Paint bottle markings anyone? 32: Waterline mounting 33: Do you live in Groton or Seattle? 34: Midget Sub in Pearl Harbor? 35: Re: Soviet WWII naval colors and pre-war chocolate 36: Re: S & E-boats -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Looking for reference books 2: New Books from Classic Warships 3: UPCOMING RELEASES 4: Warship Update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: 5" guns in 1:700 >> Shame on Skywave for copying Hasegawa and incorporating the same incorrect and really ugly proportions. << Actually, I think that there are two sets of twin 5" enclosed mounts made by Skywave. I'm not sure in what kits/accessory sprues you get each type, but there is one type which is alot like the Hasegawa ones and not too accurate. But there is another type (a later mold?) that has slimmer barrels and correctly proportioned housing. Unfortunately, I came across this 'discovery' going throught my spares box that was filled with various Skywave accessory sprues and Leviathan upgrades and had no recollection of the origin of any of them. Yohan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com Subject: Post War Carrier Flight Decks Hi All, Can anyone help out (Derek?) with the question as to which post-WWII USN CV & CVA's had wooden or metal flight decks? I thought all of the Essex-class ships had douglas fir? Also, did the Midway's? Were the decks converted to metal when they were upgraded to angle decks? And lastly, were they reverted back to Natural Wood/Yellow or White Striping post-war? Thanks. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: sinkanka@usit.net (Ann G. Sinkankas) Subject: Quality of Navies Regarding Mike Dunn's comment on USN use of foreign technology: First, it should be noted that irony, while certainly a favorite technique of critics in the humanities, usually proves nothing in a serious argument (except that its author is smart enough to do it). In fact, your comment adds to the case for the USN. A component of excellence (it seems to me) is the ability to recognize outstanding hardware, software and techniques regardless of origin, and adapt them to one's own use. Hence USN use of such British-developed devices as the weather bow, angled deck and mirror landing system. Going back much earlier, the British were pioneers in developing directed fire for the new steel guns at the end of the 19th century. All of these developments were studied and adopted by other navies, including the USN. Parenthetically, I might point out that the RN uses entire Phalanx systems on several vessels, which of course simply shows that they too use foreign technology as appropriate. Regarding the main question of which is the "best" navy: Of course all countries are affected by their domestic political and economic situations. A case in point: When my father was acting head of the Aviation Safety Equipment Division of the USN Bureau of Aeronatics (BuAir) in the late 1950's, he quickly discovered that the Martin-Baker ejection seat was at the time the only seat that would successfully get a pilot out of an aircraft at 0 altitude and 0 knots. He wanted that seat for naval aviation. A lot of pressure was brought to bear to "buy American." His reply was something like "OK, we'll install your seat in an A4, taxi it out on a runway, and you put your test pilot in the cockpit and pull the handle. If it works, we'll be happy to buy it." Nobody took him up on the offer, and MB got the contract. The point is, that is one factor that makes for excellence. Success in war is the ultimate measure of excellence in navies, and virtually every factor in a country's reality (political, economic, geographical, cultural) contributes or detracts from that success. Sometimes the excellence of a country's navy can compensate for detracting factors. An example would be the RN in the Falklands, where good training and just plain guts made up for the lack of a true CVA capability, a constraint imposed by the UK's overall economic situation. Sometimes the best navy can't make up for its country's deficits. Japan at the start of WWII was certainly better than the USN in several areas of technology and training. One recalls the "long lance" torpedo, night surface gunnery, and excellence in horizontal precision bombing. Nevertheless with a population smaller than that of the US and an economy only a fraction of that of the US, the Japanese were doomed if the USN (and the RN) chose to fight resolutely, which they did. Now, it may be sheer luck that some countries have aspects of their realities that at any given time make for success (or failure (Vietnam)) in war, and one may wish for those factors for one's own country. As they say, if wishes were horses, beggars would ride. Perhaps the measure of excellence we should be discussing is the extent to which a navy is able to maximize the national realities that contribute to success in war and minimize those that work against it. By that measure, the USN and the RN have both done pretty well, if not always outstandingly well. Regards, George M. Sinkankas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Alan Roots" Subject: Re: HMS HOOD Hi Mike asked how >> Who or what was the HMS Hood named after? << It seems, though no one is quite sure, that The First Sea Lord, Sir Arthur Hood named the ship after one of his obscure ancesters . HMS Hood was a modified (she had lower freeboard and turrets not barbettes )Royal Soveriegn class iron battleship launched in 1891 designed by Henry White. Her low freboard meant she was not a success, she was sunk in the entrance of Portland harbour as a block ship and as far as I know is still there, (when I was stationed at portland I used to fish the wreck for conger eels!!!) the last hood was named as a successor to this vessel. Unlike many other British naval ships the name dosn't seem to have historical connections.\ The ships crest shows a hooded crow after the family coat of arms. Regards Alan Roots (I have started putting together a site containing my experiences aboard HMS Hermes with 890 squadron during her first commision at http://www.witchcraft99.fsnet.co.uk Comments and advise would be welcome) Hi Alan, Great Start, I look forward to sseing how it developes. BTW, the plane guard F65 is HMS Tenby, a Whitby/Rothesay Type 12 DE. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Destroyer identification On May 13th, 1940 Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands was taken to Britain on the destroyer HMS Hereward. Later the same day the Dutch Government was similarly evacuated by HMS Windsor. I can find no reference to another destroyer being damaged and withdrawn from the operation. HMS Hereward was an 'H' Class destroyer built by Vickers-Armstrong on the Tyne in 1936 and, at least for a time, mounted a twin 4.7 inch mount, presumably similar to those fitted to the Tribal Class, in addition to singles. She was lost on May 29th, 1941 by an aerial torpedo during the evacuation of Crete. HMS Windsor was a 'W' Class destroyer built by Scott in 1918. She survived the war and was sold for scrap in 1947. Mike London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: USN Adages (was PERRY Class non-skid) >> If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, paint it. << But Doc, you missed the most important one of all: "And don't volunteer for ANYTHING!" John Snyder USS BAINBRIDGE (DLGN-25) Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club, 1966-7, 1969 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Les Pickstock Subject: KIROV and other cruisers If Rich would care to contact me off list I'd be happy to send copies of the 1/600th scale drawings of KIROV and others that were published in Scale Model during the 70's. Reduced to 25% these would be perfect although some are in post-war config. Les Pickstock. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Ken Durling Subject: Hood, Sirs a'plenty According to "Jane's" HMS Hood, the third ship of that name, was named to honor a family that had produced many of the RN's senior officers, but probably most immediately the Admiral of that name who died with practically all hands on board the Invincible at Jutland. HTH Ken Durling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Kirov Hi Rich Further information on the Kirov Armour Main belt 75mm Main deck 50mm Turrets 100mm Conning Tower 75mm Bunkers and radius 1,280 tons oil fuel 850 miles at 34 knots, 3,000 miles at 18 knots Complement 734 Kirov was the first ship of the first group of this class of cruisers (the other was Voroshilov), built at the Ordzhonikidze Yard (Leningrad). Distribution of these ships was as follows: Kirov and Maksim Gorky (second group) Baltic; Voroshilov and Molotov (second group) Black Sea; Kalinin (second group) and Kaganovich (second group) Pacific. Kirov's History Laid Down: 22.10.35 Launched: 1.12.36 Completed: 26.9.38 Baltic Fleet Bombarded Finnish shore positions 1939, Damaged by German bombers late 194. One direct hit and 10 near misses on 4.4.42. Further bomb damage (2 bombs) 24.4.42. Repaired and returned to service early 1943. The catapult and aircraft were deleted around 1943. I also have side elevations of the Kirov in 1940 and 1945 if these would be of help to you. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: HMS Hood Hi Mike >> Who or what was the HMS Hood named after? << There are several candidates, the most likely being Admiral Horace, Viscount Hood (1724-11816) and Sir Samuel Hood (1762-1814). Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Bruce Burden Subject: Re: WWII Surcouf Submarine From: "FCR" >> I am almost to get my hands on the Heller 1/400 Surcouf Submarine but unfortunately I don't have a single photo or information about it. Can anyone tell me references, websites, articles or send photos to me. << "Monsters and Midgets" (I think that is the title, I don't have the books here) has some photos and text on the Surcouf. The photos aren't the greatest, but are more or less usable. There is another book on the Surcouf that has either 1/96 or 1/192 (I think it is the latter) drawings in the back, and some very good, usable, photos through out the book. I don't remember the name of the book, but I found it by searching on the string "surcouf" at www.abe.com. Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Beware of Viking models Russ, I sympathize with you about your dealings so far with Viking Models. Join the club. I posted a warning about these guys a few months back and detailed my problems with them. Check out my web site for the whole, true story. Just click on "Beware of Viking Models." The sooner these guys are out of business, the better off all modelers will be. Buy at your own risk. Enough of that. I designed the original photo etch sheet for the 1/350 scale Texas/New York model (they haven't paid me for it yet). They later came back and asked me to produce the same set with line widths to accommodate the 1/700 Texas/New York kit (They never paid me for that either). The gun tubs are found on the PE set but apparently they changed the model enough to cause the original set to come up short on the armored splinter shields. I specifically warned them not to change the dimensions of the model in any way or the photo etch would not fit properly. Apparently, they went the cheaper route. CHECK OUT MY WEB SITE BEFORE ANYONE BUYS ANYTHING FROM THESE GUYS!!!!! Sorry to be so negative, but I feel obligated to forewarn modelers before they send their money so they can make an informed decision. Don't take my word for it. Ask Caroline Carter at WEM about dealing with them. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Revell Ticonderoga model answers >> Hi all I have received the above kit (Revel 1/700) does anyone know if it is accurate, as I do not have much info on this class, also what is the best photo etch to use, and Humbrol colours to use :) << The Revell Ticonderoga class model is the ex Skywave molds. It's quite accurate and it builds into a very nice model. Flagship Models has a very nice detail set designed to fit this model. You can SEE it on my web site. The color you need for the vertical surfaces in Haze Gray. Unfortunately no one make this color. I use only Model master paints so I can recommend 2 parts MM Medium Gray to 1 part MM Camouflage Gray. It makes an almost perfect match. The non skid decks are a dark gray and the helopad is a little darker. Hope this helps. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Björn Bäcklundx1bmQ= Subject: 5" guns in 1:700 >> Shame on Skywave for copying Hasegawa and incorporating the same incorrect and really ugly proportions. << Hi. This remark made me remember something that I read about 15 years ago. Someone stated that there was only one firm in Japan that made the 1/700 ships and they were then sold by different companys like Hasegawa, Fujimi, Tamiya, ......... Could that explain it? Bjorn Backlund -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Kenneth Perry Subject: Re: Sea Tec Models I don't have their e-mail address, but their web site is supposed to be: http://www.seatecmodels.com. I haven't been able to access their site in a couple of weeks now. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: Aircraft questions >> Does anyone know of a list similar to this one, but for aircraft questions? I'm about to start on a 1/48 scale DC-3, and need some help. << You can try the discussion group on the Hyperscale web page which is at: http://www.hyperscale.com/ Or you can try the rec.models.scale newsgroup at: news:rec.models.scale Mike Settle I am not agent #1908 of the non-existent Lumber Cartel (tinlc)tm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Superior Navies-- my 2cents The WWII Kriegsmarine wrought havoc beyond its comparable tonnage and manpower proportions. I say that man for man and ton for ton, the KM was the superior navy of WWII. They did the mostest with the leastest. Or if not, they still had the coolest looking stuff and the hardest color samples to find. So nyah nyah! :-) <-- its a smiley not an anchor Dave Hi Dave, Naw, the RAN did the most with the least, afterall we are the best navy don't you know ;-þ Shane - who me biased - never!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Erhardtsen" Subject: Re: Ships in action in Operation Weserübung >> Our local modelling club have decided to put up a branch display with the theme "The invasion of Norway", but we are planning to expand on the theme as time allows. Also relevant will be aircraft, armour, ships, figures that saw action at this time or immediately preceding the invasion. I learned of a Ju88 that had seen combat with British aircraft over the North Sea at the 3rd of April 1940, which made an emergency landing at Forus. With this in mind, the HMS Cossack and Altmark would be of interest too << "Operation Weserübung" - oh, you mean "The invasion of Denmark" (OK. så siger vi Danmark og Norge) Anyway - as I was building the Altmark class, I made the hull in resine plast (scala 1/700), and it is possible to make a hull or two more, if you need. I also made the Northrop N-3PB in 1/700 (Norwegian torpedobomber) but it was used on Iceland later in the war. White Ensign models makes a good Heinkel 115 in 1/700. - It can be yoused as german or norwegian aircraft in Norway (and some of the german became norwegian and i think one of the norwegian became german) Erik Erhardtsen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Tim Stoneman Subject: Re: Ships in action in Operation Weserübung In terms of ships, you're spoilt for choice - but there are 2 difficulties: 1 - There are very few photos taken at the time of Weserübung by either side (especially the British), and so accurate detailing, colour schemes etc are very difficult. 2 - Depending on which scale you choose, there are few kits on the market! The comments below refer largely to 1/700 scale kits. That said, here goes: Kreigsmarine - ALL serviceable units took part: Scharnhorst/Gneisenau (Tamiya - but both kits are in a later configuration) Lützow (Fujimi - but kits is in an earlier configuration - or Italeri 1/720) (Damage to Lützow in Oslofjord included a hit on Anton turret which knocked out the centre gun and another on the port side in Compartment XIII which caused a fire on the upper deck; the torpedo hit on her return to Germany was at the break of the foc's'le) (Admiral Scheer was deep in refit) Admiral Hipper/Blücher - as in your posting, but note that their bow shapes differed slightly, even after Hipper was fitted with the "Atlantic" bow. The Revell/Matchbox kit is somewhat "tired" and inaccurate! K-class cruisers - all 3 started the operation (but only Köln was afloat by the end of Weserübung) - note that Könisgberg had undergone major modification by late 1939. Emden followed Blücher and Lützow into Oslofjord (but survived undamaged). Leipzig and Nürnberg were under repair after torpedo hits in 1939. All the earlier destroyers (Z1-Z22; see various references or web pages for names) took part except Z1, Z3 (both sunk Feb 1940), Z4, Z7, Z14 and Z20 (all four in refit) and Z10 (kept as a reserve) - ten of these are still on fjord-beds in Ofotfjord and surrounding fjords. There were also various auxiliaries, torpedo boats, U-boats and merchant ships. Marine Nationale - few if any kits available Cruisers - Emile Bertin, Montcalm Contre-torpilleurs - Tartu, Chevalier Paul, Maillé Brézé, Milan, Bison, Épervier Destroyers - Brestois, Boulonnais, Foudroyant Polish Navy Grom (lost to Stukas in Rombaksfjord), Blyskavica, Burza (no kits known in 1/700, but larger-scale ones available) Royal Navy Too many to list, but try some of the following: 1st Battle of Narvik - Hardy (modify old B-Resina H-class kit) Hotspur, Hunter, Hostile and Havock (modify old B-Resina kit) 2nd Battle of Narvik - Warspite (modify White Ensign Models kit), Hero, Icarus, Forester, Foxhound (modify old B-Resina kit for all four), Kimberley (modify White Ensign Models KASHMIR), Cossack, Punjabi, Bedouin, Eskimo (Old White Ensign Models 1/700 or Revell 1/720 kits if you can get hold of them for these four - be prepared for a lot of work if you use the Revell one) Bombardment of Sola airfield, Stavanger - Suffolk (old B-Resina kit or (heavily) modified White Ensign Models Sussex kit) Most of the Home Fleet was involved one way or another in escorting convoys, shore bombardment, air defence of ports, anchorages and coastal towns, provision of carrier-based air support, patrol, minelaying .... the list goes on and on. Don't forget the significant contribution of the Submarine Flotilla! As for your own Navy, Norge, Eidsvold, Sleipner, Gyller, Aeger, Odin and several small torpedo boats took part - of these, only Sleipner and Draug escaped to Britain. Jens - please get in touch off-list if you want more detail or references. Tim Stoneman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Norman C. Samish" Subject: Best Navy Thread I am grateful to Messrs. Gollin, Orloff, Bennett, Dougherty, Clements and other learned gentlemen who have commented on "who has the best ships and navy". You have given me a lot of new insight on this fascinating topic and I am wiser as a result. I am sure many others feel as I do. Thank you, Norm Samish -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Things With Wings (Re: Made in USA) Derek Wakefield mentioned: >> The Phalanx camera isn't the first non-US item aquired by the USN, and I doubt if it will be the last. << Uncharacteristically, the Department of the Navy (in the form of the US Marine Corps) chose to buy the British Harrier when it decided it needed a capable V/STOL aircraft, rather than spend countless billions and many years of R&D to develop something from scratch. The USMC AV-8 Harriers are deployed on LHA and LHD type ships. Somebody once reported this as the first foreign aircraft adopted by the US military since 1917, but wasn't the Canberra bomber used by the USAF in Vietnam an Australian design? I believe there were also some Canadian aircraft types used by the Army and Air Force in the 60s/70s. Mike L Alexandria, VA USA Hi Mike, The Canberra (B-57 in US Service) was made by BAC, an English firm, not an Australian one. The DHC Caribou, I believe was used by the US. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Aircraft Questions Dan asked: Subject: Aircraft questions >> Does anyone know of a list similar to this one, but for aircraft questions? << If all else fails, the newsgroup rec.models.scale can sometimes be a good source. MWL Hi Dan, I second the choices sent in by both Mikes. Hyperscale is a very good resource in that respect. Also, Internet Modller has just set up a message board at: http://www.internetmodeler.com/ RMS, can be a bit hectic at times, but there a lot of people there willing to help you out, some of whom are also SMMLies ;-). Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Edward Brown" Subject: Its not all about industry Lars Thank you for providing a practioner's view to my comments. I do appreciate your trouble. As you knew my remarks were not meant in any way to belittle the courage, dedication and expertise of the men who man our warships. Simply they were meant to illustrate that war is prosaic. When writing the piece I had deliberately avoided mentioning the problem of American public opinion and consequent possiblity of isolationism. Which you realistically addressed. Given the willingness to continue the probability is that the USA can expect to be the only super power for perhaps the next twenty years. The only other significant cloud on the horizon is the enemy who has totally different values in regard to the value of human life and, possibly welcomes death as a religious fulfilment. Having had my say I willing admit that there is a "romance" to the traditions, achievements and ships of our respective navies. Why else would we spend our time researching and modelling warships. Regards Edward Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Frank and Carol Berger" Subject: Re: USS Missouri gun tubs I can't put my finger on the exact reference now, but I do recall reading that the inside of the gun tubs were painted deck blue. Anybody out there help me with my failing memory? Frank -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: USS TEXAS Russ: Since you can't get the Skywave E-6 kit anymore, do the next best thing and buy one of the Skywave DE kits--preferably the kind with the enclosed 5-inch mounts like the Rudderow. The kit has a lot of extras, including 3 inch and 5 inch singles. And the two DEs you get in the kit are a fun build, too. Marc Flake Tarrant County Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Marc Flake Subject: Next Project Aaarrgh! After doing a major *build* of the Texas lst month, I was looking forward to *assembling* an on-topic 1/700 Miami-class light crusier and an off-topic 1/48 Tamiya Corsair. You know, the "shake the box" type kits. Well I got halfway through the Skywave kit when I discovered a missing part (the one where the forward range finders are mounted) Now I'm going to have to scratchbuild something, which means if I *build* anything on a ship kit, I have to put PE railings on it. Well, at least the Corsair is coming along well without any problems. Oh yes, I'm also painting up some Atlantic Scheme II aircraft for a Measure 16 Bogue-class carrier I've already built. Marc Flake -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Jay Schantzen Subject: Re: Surcouf The French Maritime museum in Paris publishes a nice set of modeling plans for the Surcouf. They also have a model in the museum. I don't have an Internet address, but hopefully someone on the list can help. I think the plans might also be available from Taubman plans here in the US. Jay Schantzen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: PulligS@aol.com Subject: USS INDEPENDENCE CVL-23/A-BOMB TESTS Most of the major ships at the A-Bomb tests were either bad old, bad hurt, or foreign. I've never known what was wrong with the INDEPENDENCE that got her sent there. Any info? Thanks Sam Pullig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: PulligS@aol.com Subject: Defective Heavy Cruiser I remember reading but now cannot find the reference that one of our cruisers [heavy?] completed at the end of the war was defective and either never was commissioned or for only a short while. Which ship? What was wrong? Thanks Sam Pullig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: USS Enterprise What was the color of the USS Enterprise in the early 50's. What paint color should be used? Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: mechboy@juno.com Subject: Re: Paint bottle markings anyone? On the subject of stopping the annoying process of paint drying up. I've been able to keep that from happening by simply wiping clean the lip and cap everytime i open a bottle. I keep a roll of toilet paper around for this, one sheet will do. I have bottles of paint still good from over 5 years ago. Hoi mechboy@juno.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: Waterline mounting Derek, There may be a way to kill two birds with one stone. As we've discussed, the Revell 27C Essex kit is too narrow - basically you'd need to mount the hangar walls on TOP on the hull, not inside as the kit shows, then build another hull six scale feet (each side) outside the existing hull to account for the blistered hull. At least this would be necessary for the starboard side. But with the strength this double hull would give you (not to mention the interior bracing, and I'd suggest a sheet plastic hangar deck at that scale) you'd hardly need a full hull for strength purposes. I'd cut the hull at the waterline, add braces and a hangar deck, mount the hangar walls in their correct (after testing the fit at the flight deck level) positions on top of the kit hull (bracing them on the hangar deck) and build the blistered hull, and you'd have a rock-solid hull. I'm looking forward to hearing how it comes out. Michael Smith Marshall, Texas This is assuming that the kit's hull is approximately right for an unmodernized Essex hull in terms of width, but to me, the real test is lining the escalator and other hangar structures with the kit's flight deck - the blistered hull can be built to the correct dimensions. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: "Ron Hillsden" Subject: Do you live in Groton or Seattle? I am trying to get a hull sections drawing for Electric Boat Company designs 19B or 19E, and/or a photo of the stern under the waterline. These boats were built for Chile in 1913 as their numbers C1 and C2, or "Iquique" and "Antofagasta". Either they did not meet specs or Chile couldn't afford to complete the deal. They were similar to the USN "H" class except they has a stern tube added. I am interested in the alterations to the hull to incorporate the stern tube. The boats were purchased by Canada as CC1 and CC2 during WW1. I understand Electric Boat donated it's old drawings to the Sub Museum and Library in Groton. Can someone there tell me how I can find out if they got drawings for either of there 2 boats? The boats were built by Seattle Construction and Drydock Company (James Venn Paterson). Can someone tell me where any drawings may have wound up? Seattle seems blessed with several Maritime Museums! Thanks Ron Hillsden, Victoria BC Canada My boat club: http://members.home.net/vmss/ Flags: http://members.home.net/ron-hillsden/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Midget Sub in Pearl Harbor? I just read my latest copy of Naval History magazine. It had a leading article that claimed that a Japanese midget sub entered into the Pearl Harbor anchorage. Also, the article claimed evidence that the sub fired two topedoes into a couple of BBs. The feeling I got was that the authors thought that this was all new. But, in my copy of "USS Ward Fires First Shot WWII", first printed in about 1977 or 1983, it is stated that a midget sub made it into the harbor and sailed around Ford Island. It was finally sunk by the Curtiss and Monoghan, and others, with gunfire and depth charges. The wreck was raised after the war and buried elsewhere. Were the authors of the Naval History article aware of this? To me it seems that the debate over whether the sub contributed to the sinking of a couple of US BBs could be decided by whether the sub wreck had its 2 torpedoes still in it. Does anybody know anything more on this? Roger Clemens (Still looking for Pre-Dreadnought Freaks) Hinsdale, Illinois -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: Soviet WWII naval colors and pre-war chocolate Hi all; Does anyone have an idea what color the WWII Soviet cruiser TASHKENT was painted? I have seen references to "sky-blue". Can anyone give me a better idea, such as which color from which manufacturer? Otherwise I will just use a generic sky blue. Regarding pre-war Nestles chocolate. Around this house you would have a very difficult time finding YESTERDAY`S chocolate, much less any pre-WWII bars. I have a serious addiction to the stuff. Chuck Duggie Who gets up and prays toward Hershey, Pennsylvania every morning! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 36) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: S & E-boats >> With the knowledgeable resources this list is, can anyone help with respect to suggestions for suitable subjects (E-boats?) and representations of these in model form? << Hi; There are 3 manufacturers of 1:600 MTB / MGB / PT / E&S-boats and such. 2 lines are white metal from UK (Skytrex and SDD ), and 1 is resin from US ( PT Dockyard). Contact me offlist for addresses. All 3 are rather rough wargame quality models. I have well over 300 of them. The metal ones need some cleaning and smoothing, and the resin ones have bubbles and pockets. Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Looking for reference books In volume 781 there was a note that that copies of Warship Perspectives were being sold for $11.75 per copy plus tax. I have had several retailers asking about this price with some concern. It appears that Model Expo may have inadvertently sold a handful of REVIEW copies, and may not have been aware of the correct price levels. If any retailer selling Warship Perspectives still has any concern, I ask that they contact W R PRESS off line and I will confirm the above. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: New Books from Classic Warships Classic Warships has released two new books as of Dec. 1999. Warship Pictorial#5 USS San Francisco CA-38 Warship Pictorial#6 Omaha Class Cruisers - Photo Album Both sell for $9.95 and are available at Pacific Front Hobbies and other mail order and retail hobby shops. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Bill Gruner Subject: UPCOMING RELEASES Sealsmodels of Japan has made some interesting announcements of new releases of Japanese ships in 1/700 scale. These will be available and announced in our February 2000 UPDATE (due about Feb. 15): 1. JMSDF ASE-6102 ASUKA...resin & metal kit 2. IJN Destroyer Sinonome (Shinonome) 1900....2 in box...metal kit w/decal 3. IJN Destroyer Ikazuchi 1900.....as above 4. IJN Destroyer Shirakumo about 1900...as above 5. IJN Battleship Fuji/Yashima 1897, metal and resin kit 6. IJN Battleship Mikasa, plastic kit Look for announcements of some important new releases in 1/700 scale on the Feb. UPDATE... Thanks, Bill Gruner http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Rob Mackie Subject: Warship Update I've updated the Warship (http://warship.simplenet.com) site with the following new items: Additions to Model Gallery: 1:350 USS Yorktown by Kelly Quirk 1:350 Fletcher Class DD by Kelly Quirk 1:250 USS King DDG-41 by Mike Leonard 1:192 USS Panay River Gunboat by Bob Santos 1:700 USS Phoenix CL by Tim Dike A look at the JAG Collective 1:700 USS Long Beach CGN-9 In box review: Samek Models 1:700 German Battleship Bismarck Pacific Front December Update: The entire update on-line! Rob Mackie Warship Editor http://warship.simplenet.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume