Subject: SMML VOL 784 Date Sun, 09 Jan 2000 02:24:23 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: OT: Airplane places 2: Aircraft Questions 3: Countless billions 4: Re: 5" guns in 1/700 5: Re: HMS Hood 6: Re: Defective Heavy Cruiser 7: Post War Carrier Flight Decks 8: Midget Sub in Pearl Harbor? 9: Re: Post War Carrier Flight Decks 10: Surcouf 11: Re: USS Enterprise 12: Re: Things with wings 13: Re: USS ENTERPRISE 14: Re: Superior Navies - my 2 cents 15: Re: 5 inch guns and extras 16: Re: Enterprise colors 17: Naming of HMS Hood - The Definitive Answer 18: Re: Who's best 19: Gato class submarine question 20: Re: Superior Navies - my 2 cents 21: Re: Twin 5"38 guns in 1:700 22: Aircraft questions and mini sub at Pearl Harbor 23: USN CV PE sets 24: Superior Navies --- my 2 Lire 25: Re: Jutland 26: Re: Naming of HMS HOOD 27: Re: USN Adages (was PERRY Class non-skid) 28: Milk Chocolate 29: Landing Ship Tank References 30: Re: USN Adages 31: Kitty Hawk colors 32: Canberra bombers 33: Re: 3"/5" guns in 1/700 34: defective heavy cruiser 35: Re: Midway flight deck 36: Re: Aircraft carrier decks 37: Re: Hood name 38: Re: USS ENTERPRISE CV-6 colors 39: USS ORISKANY 40: Re: Post War Flight Decks 41: Re: Quality of Navies 42: Re: Post War Flight Decks 43: Re: INDEPENDENCE/Heavy Cruiser/CV-6 44: Re: Defective U. S. cruiser 45: USS Juneau 46: Revell Essex (was Waterline mounting) 47: Revell Germany new kits 48: Revell Essex (Addenda) 49: Draught Markings, Fletcher Class DD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: SMML website update 2: NEW 1:700 RELEASE...DL-2 class -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: OT: Airplane places In addition to Hyperscale and Rec. Models. Scale, I have stumbled across the following groups: All can be accessed via http://www.onelist.com EarlyJets -- First jets to Century Series CenturySeries -- Century Series fighters, contemporaries and adversaries ModernJets -- Post Century series 72usmilair (?) -- 1/72 scale US military aircraft -- (I think I got the title correct) -- list is owned by Paul Boyer of Fine Scale Modeler. HTH Mark Doremus Eden Prairie, MN where weather conditions are preventing sailing or flying -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Ken Durling" Subject: Aircraft Questions >> Does anyone know of a list similar to this one, but for aircraft questions? I'm about to start on a 1/48 scale DC-3, and need some help. << In addition to the ones Mike pointed out, there's also the Airline Modeler's Digest. I recently changed ISP's and lost the e-mail address for the forum, but the URL for the Website, where there's is subscription info for the forum, is: http://members.xoom.com/amdigest/index2.htm Also feel free me to e-mail me off-group, as I have done a lot of airliner modeling. Best regards Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Ken Durling" Subject: Countless billions Someone wrote: >> Uncharacteristically, the Department of the Navy (in the form of the US Marine Corps) chose to buy the British Harrier when it decided it needed a capable V/STOL aircraft, rather than spend countless billions and many years of R&D to develop something from scratch>> Of course they went ahead and did that anyway with the V-22 "Osprey." Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Mark Shannon Subject: Re: 5" guns in 1/700 The three most common moldings of the 5" 38 twin mount are: Hasegawa -- as in SouthDakota and Essex class kits -- too narrow in front view, not enough flat portion at rear top of turret, "off" angle for turret face Skywave -- as found in the first U.S. equipment sets and the Atlanta class cruiser kits -- narrower front view than the Hasegawa, heavy barrels, too tall. Skywave -- as found in the second U.S. equipment sets and in the Cleveland class cruiser kits -- pretty fair representation, barrels still a bit too heavy because of mold restrictions and I think they are a hair too tall (difficult to measure without a micrometer, but it looks just a bit off in the scale). They need the sighting hood boxes on the sides just behind the glacis, other little details, but overall they give the right impression. Another good representation of the gunhousings are in the Matchbox San Diego kit. These are rather thickly molded, and the barrels may be out of round. The biggest fix needed on these is that they need the sides sanded to vertical (remove the "splayed" taper in front view) and add the sighting hoods. Finally, probably the best shaped and cleanest representation in an injection molded kit is in the old Albatross Sumner and Gearing kits (i know, the sentence looks like a catagory at the Oscars). These really capture the shape and look and just need the sighting hoods and blast bags. Unfortunately, there are only three in any kit, and the kit is hard to find, anymore, so it becomes a resin molding and copyright restriction issue, again.. Mark. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Mark Shannon Subject: Re: HMS Hood The H.M.S. Hood was named for a family that had provided several admirals in several generations. The most famous of the ancestors was an admiral commanding during the "Battle of the Saints" at the end of the French/British side conflicts during the American War of Independence. Since this battle ended up giving Britain increased control in the Carribean and forced France to cede several key islands, it was certainly worthy of commemoration. I think he also was involved in the battle off the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay -- the one where the British held control of the seas afterwards, but they hadn't broken the French blockade to relieve Cornwallis at Yorktown. Mark. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Defective Heavy Cruiser Sam... If you're speaking of a US CA, I believe the answer is the USS Oregon City (CA-122). She was the lead ship of her class, that represented a variant of the Baltimore cl with a single stack and more compact superstructure to increase the AA firing arcs. Per Andrew Toppan's "US Cruisers List: Light/Heavy/AntiAircraft Cruisers Part 2" (www.uss-salem.org/navhist/cruisers) she was proposed for conversion into CAG-1 (and replaced with Boston) and then proposed for conversion into CG-10 (and replaced with Albany). To quote Mr Toppan, "This ship was apparently defective in some way, she was the only Baltimore/Oregon City to be decommissioned so soon after completion and was never converted into a missile ship." This is sort of a misnomer though because only five of the Baltimore/Oregon City cl ships were ever converted into missile cruisers. Most of these ships did remain active until the late 50s/early 60s (with a few lingering on into the early 70s). I think this is what Mr Toppan was trying to get at here. This is the only source I can quote about the Oregon City. She is an oddity as far as these ships go though, having served only 22 months on active service. Only Fall River came close to having as short of a active duty career. No guarantee, but if no one else here pipes in about this, perhaps more can be learned in Friedman's US Cruisers. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Post War Carrier Flight Decks John... Carriers aren't my forte (although I'm learning WAY too much about one called Oriskany as of late), but I'll give it a shot. As far as I've been able to tell, the only Essex ever to be equipped with an aluminum flight deck was Oriskany (as part of her SCB-127A refit). Those that underwent the SCB-125 refit (angled deck) retained a wooden flight deck. In correspondance with Doug Marrel (chime in anytime Doug) regarding this, he was able to make out the planks under what appears to be a type of heavy anti-skid coating applied to the decks at some point on the Bennington. Likewise, in a photo taken on the Ticonderoga during the Vietnam era of a F-8 being lined up at the cat, the individual planks of the wood deck are clearly visable. For years, I believed all the -125 ships were equipped with Aluminum flight decks, but from what I've been learning recently, the only mention of aluminum flight decks is in relation to -125A (that only included Oriskany). If anyone here on the list knows better, I'll gladly step aside on this topic. I haven't studied the Midway cl ships in too many years. I believe they were built with armored flight decks, but whether they were covered in wood...??? I don't think any US carrier had unpainted flight decks after the war, but I'll leave that subject to the paint experts here on the list to answer. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Humber, Thom Mr." Subject: Midget Sub in Pearl Harbor? Roger, It just so happens that I work for the company that did some of the "recent" photo-interpretation on some of the old aerial photos of the attack. (Although the fellows that did the work are in our Springfield, VA office and not here in Colorado Springs where I am.) I remember reading about this in some company propaganda a while back. I'll look and see if I can find this information. As I recall it had something to do with the wave patterns or something like that. I'll also have to pick up a copy of Naval History and what this article has to say. Hopefully, I'll have more information after the weekend. Thom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Post War Carrier Flight Decks Dear John: The Navy's wartime built carriers all had wood decks-Essex class CV, Independence class CVL, and various CVE classes. After WW2 the navy never replaced the wood decks on them for example the USS Lexington CV-16 was operated until 1991 and had a wood deck what changed was the way the deck was covered with non skid material and painted over with deck markings. I've had some of the old Revell kits they showed drawings for the deck to deck tan with yellow stripes down the angle deck and the bow and stern of the flight deck marked with either white or zinc chromate yellow numbers. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "larsenal" Subject: Surcouf Good reference books for the French Surcouf are the books from Marines Edition " Les Sous-marins français 1918-1945 " and " Le croiseur sous-Marin Surcouf 1926-1942" The later is very complete and filled with good photographs and plans. It costs FRF 85.00 ( € 43.45 ) and can be ordered directly from Marines Edition at marines@wanadoo.fr Best regards, Jacques Druel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Enterprise Dear Shaya: According to the book USS ENTERPRISE CV-6, The most decorated ship of WW2 A PICTORIAL HISTORY by Steve Ewing,Pictorial Histories, 1982 has the story of the Big E after the war in mothballs has B&W photos of the ship it appears she was repainted in peacetime colors possibly light or haze gray. I don't have color photos unfortunately. Hope this helps. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Things with wings Well, let's see, prior to Vietnam you could find the USAAF flying Spits and Mossies in US squadrons in US markings in WW2. Then there were the S.P.A.D.s and Nieuports the Air Corps flew in WW1, and the Nieuports that the USN flew off of BBs in the post-WW1 period.... John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: USS ENTERPRISE The "Big E" in the 1950s? I presume we're talking CV-6 here. If so, then she spent the whole time in mothballs, and would have been painted in the neutral Haze Gray from our USN Set 2, though to be accurte it should be lightened by heavy oxidization and weathering. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Superior Navies - my 2 cents >> ...and the hardest color samples to find. So nyah nyah! << Awright Dave, rub it in!! But we'll be talking with you and Falk a little later in the year so we can finally get that Kreigsmarine set out and available.... ;^) John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: 5 inch guns and extras >> Since you can't get the Skywave E-6 kit anymore, do the next best thing and buy one of the Skywave DE kits--preferably the kind with the enclosed 5-inch mounts like the Rudderow. << Get an Ace Resin casting kit and make your own molds to cast for future projects and you won't have this problem again. This is a trick I use when building master patterns that require duplicates. Don't worry about copyright infringement (PLEASE, lets not start that again!). As long as you cast them for your own exclusive use your OK. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Enterprise colors >> What was the color of the USS Enterprise in the early 50's. What paint color should be used? << From the photos I have, the post war (WW 2) Enterprise has always carried Haze Gray on the vertical surfaces. I use Model Master paints so I mix 2 parts MM Medium Gray to 1 part Camouflage Gray. Hope this helps. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: AllenFW2@aol.com Subject: Naming of HMS Hood - The Definitive Answer Hello Everyone Frank Allen here. As many of you know, I run the HMS Hood Association's official web site, "Battle Cruiser Hood." The site is at http://www.hmshood.com and http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/2966/ When it comes to Hood, we are the real deal. I've read the various responses to the question concerning "who HMS Hood was named after." A few of the responses were accurate and few were way off. Here are the facts as derived from the Hood family, official records and former crew: Although there have been several great naval Hoods, most records/sources we've consulted indicate that all FOUR ships to bear the name Hood, were actually named primarily after one man- Admiral Lord Samuel Hood. Lord Hood was one of the Royal Navy's most successful and able leaders in the late 1700s-early 1800s. He worked closely with Admirals Rodney and Howe. Not really an obscure chap at all...if you rank the British Admirals of that era, Hood would run close behind Nelson, Howe and Rodney. His brother, Baron Bridport (Alexander Hood) was just as good a leader. Chris was right in bringing Admiral Sir Horace Hood into the picture though. His death aboard HMS Invincible (first British battle cruiser) at Jutland did indeed influence the naming of our Hood (the last great British battle cruiser). Although christened by his widow, the ship was not specifically named after him...most source material indicates that it was named after both Sir Samuel and the entire Hood family...all the great Admirals Hood. For more information on the naval Hoods, I suggest you visit our web site's section on them. The information on the Hood family is in the "History" section (you can't miss it). Ventis Secundis (With the Winds Favourable) Frank -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Mike Dunn" Subject: Re: Who's best George Sinkankas (sinkanka@usit.net) wrote :- >> Parenthetically, I might point out that the RN uses entire Phalanx systems on several vessels, which of course simply shows that they too use foreign technology as appropriate. << I never denied this - my point, and also that of Rusty, was to deny & expose the attitude of "it's American and is therefore the best". This wrong - always has been and always will be (until, of course, the USA covers the globe). No one country is the best. No one armed force is the best. And arguements that "ours is bigger" is equally futile. Goliath was a much bigger weapons system than David - who won? As Peter Hall said (BTW, Peter - I didn't know you wrote TV adverts ), "it's not how large it is, it's what you do with it that counts". The Soviet Union had a larger workforce than the US, but this didn't get them to the Moon. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Gato class submarine question I am building a 1/72 scale Gato class sub for a client an I have a question. I need to know the details concerning the deck. It was designed for water to flow underneath it. However, there was a sort of lattice pattern to the deck. I also have some more questions if someone would contact me off list. I'm not a big sub fanatic but I want to get it right. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Re: Superior Navies - my 2 cents Hi Dave >> The WWII Kriegsmarine wrought havoc beyond its comparable tonnage and manpower proportions. I say that man for man and ton for ton, the KM was the superior navy of WWII. << Actually the real value of the KM was as a 'fleet in being' tying up a huge portion of allied resources without actually having to fight. Operationally they were mostly incompetent and inefficient. Equipment wise - their ships did not really do what they were supposed to and some were absolute disasters. They suffered from the same leadership problems the USN did but were unable to correct them. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: Twin 5"38 guns in 1:700 >> Shame on Skywave for copying Hasegawa and incorporating the same incorrect and really ugly proportions. << >> This remark made me remember something that I read about 15 years ago. Someone stated that there was only one firm in Japan that made the 1/700 ships and they were then sold by different companys like Hasegawa, Fujimi, Tamiya, ......... Could that explain it? << That really DOESN'T explain it. The twin 5" mounts in the Haswgawa ALANBAMA & ESSEX classes, Fujimi's IOWA class and Aoshima's NORTH CAROLINA class are so different that they look as if they were representing different subjects. Roll in the original Skywave US Weapons Set twin 5" mounts and it shows that the country of origin has nothing to do with the contents of the model box. I really liked the Fujimi IOWA 5" guns best of the original kits. I added doors, ladders and sighting hood bits & pieces and they look great to me. Albatross made a fairly good looking piece in their SUMNER & GEARING kits, but at 3 per box, it would have mugged four DD kits to outfit a single BB. The latest Skywave part, found in the SUMNER & GEARING kits, as well as the CLEVELAND kit and the latest US Weapons Set (the one with the triple 6" turrets) is shaped a lot nicer. It looks very good to me. Rick Heinbaugh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Danjessar@aol.com Subject: Aircraft questions and mini sub at Pearl Harbor I'd like to thank all who responded, both on and offline, to my search for an aircraft forum. I've gotten some valuable hints for my project. Regarding the question of the mini-sub at Pearl Harbor, on the www.warships1.com site, there is a "Navy Technical Board" which contains a discussion of the theory of a mini sub that hit the WV and OK with one torpedo each. The discussion points out problems with many of the conclusions drawn in the magazine article. Basically, the authors conclude that it's possible, but not probable, that the sub launched torpedoes. Thanks again, Dan Schweikert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Partlow, Tony" Subject: USN CV PE sets I am building a diorama of the Swapex between the USS Independence (CV-62) and the USS Kitty Hawk (CV-63). I have both of the Italeari kits and need to know what etched brass sets to buy to fit out both ships railing and radars (the kits are just to bad to put on the model). Also does anyone know af a good set of modern US aircraft to place on the flight deck. Also does anyone know of a brass set for the Revell-Germany (Skywave) USS Independence (CVL-22) Thanks for your help in advance. Yours in modeling. Tony Partlow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "John Rule" Subject: Superior Navies --- my 2 Lire >> The WWII Kriegsmarine wrought havoc beyond its comparable tonnage and manpower proportions. I say that man for man and ton for ton, the KM was the superior navy of WWII. They did the mostest with the leastest. Or if not, they still had the coolest looking stuff and the hardest color samples to find. So nyah nyah! << I beg to differ w.r.t. the coolest looking stuff. Although the KM did have some nice ships (Bismark, Scharnhorst, Prinz Eugen and their respective sisters) the Italian Navy (Reggia Marina) by far boasted the largest number of beautiful looking ships. So in my humble opinion if the outcome of WWII had been decided by a fashion show or a Naval Review on the basis of aesthetics, Italy would have won hands down. John Rule (or maybe Giovanni Regolo) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "graham" Subject: Re: Jutland Hi Steve, Maybe not what you want but a couple of years ago there was a program on TV over here, about some RM divers who did a series of dives on HMS Queen Mary and Invincible, it was very interesting. I did have it on video but I lent that tape to a so called friend and it never came back :( best wishes graham -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Donald Steury" Subject: Re: Naming of HMS HOOD Admiral Sir Samuel Hood, Rodney's second in the Battle of the Saints and conqueror of Toulon in the French revolutionary wars was hardly an obscure ancestor. The Hood family was a RN dynasty. Then, of course, there was Rear Admiral Sir Horace Hood, blown up with the battle cruiser Invincible at Jutland. Actually, all this is irrelevant: as everyone knows, HMS Hood was named after Mt. Hood in Oregon. Jolly cleaver of those Brits to name such a splendid ship after such a beautiful mountain. Cheeribye Donald Steury (to be honest, both mountain and ship are named after the same guy) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Lisa and Bill Wiseman Subject: Re: USN Adages (was PERRY Class non-skid) John, You're right I forgot some of the oldies. NAVY Never Again Volunteer Yourself. or USMC Uncle Sam's Midguided Children Semper Fi Doc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "George J. Stein" Subject: Milk Chocolate Given the sometimes wonderfully lunatic discussion threads on this list, let's be real historians about this milk chocolate question. First, C. Duggie - you're praying the wrong direction. Nestle (the light brown chocolate) is a SWISS firm and the Swiss are not known for their Navy. Hershey (the dark brown chocolate) is, indeed, made in Pennsylvania, but the Hershey museum is best known for its model railroad display. Now here's where the international dimension of this list begins to pay off. Hypothesis: the Royal Navy choice of "milk chocolate" was driven by that peculiar British sense of humor. That is, the milk chocolate "in circulation" at that historical period was undoubtedly (??) "Cadbury's" -- which, as any American tourist who has lost money in one of those candy machines in the London Underground knows, is a "light brown tending to gray (grey)." The British humor comes in when it is recalled that the original owners of Cadbury's were Quakers -- and thus pacifists. What better color on which, then, warriors might fight than Cadbury's Quaker "milk chocolate." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: "Gene Wisner" Subject: Landing Ship Tank References I am looking for any information on LCT's. Can anyone point me to a reference on this subject or any other similar ships. Thanks, Gene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "James Johnson" Subject: Re: USN Adages When I was on active duty on a bird farm there were 5000 sailors aboard. Any thing that was desirable required you to stand in line. If you wanted to eat, you stood in the chow line. If you wanted to get paid, you stood in the pay line. If you wanted to go ashore, you stood in the liberty line. If you wanted some snacks, you stood in the gedunk line. I had a theory that if I got a dozen or so of my shipmates to start a line where the object of the line could not be determined, everyone would assume that something worth having was being passed out and eventually 98% of the crew would get in line. (As any USN sailor knows, there's always 2% that doesn't get it). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: David_L._Miller@ccmail.wiu.edu Subject: Kitty Hawk colors I have begun the ARII kit of the Kitty Hawk. It is very hard to decipher the colors recommended in the instructions. For instance, it seems that the instructions are indicating a green color below the waterline. Could this be? Does anyone have the Model Master or Aero Master or Humbrol colors that would be used on the hull, flight deck, island, and superstructure. I've looked at the pictures of the Kitty Hawk on her website, but can not really tell from them. Thanks, Dave Miller -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: PulligS@aol.com Subject: Canberra bombers Someone talked about Canberra Bombers thinking they were from Australia. You want to here my Canberra story? Of course you do. It was 70 or 71 the REGULUS was doing her last unrep with a FRAM before going into Anthoy{sp?} at the end of our line swing. Our airsearch radar worked some of the time but I think both ships turn it off during an unrep to keep from making crispy critters [am I right about that Jack?]. Anyway there we were alongside the DD when this Australian Canberra comes by at mast height from astern. Everyone on the bridge dropped a load with the Captains being the largest by actual weight. We later found it was a recon plane having a little fun. Sam Pullig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: 3"/5" guns in 1/700 Russ: I began to worry about how many 3" and 5" guns are provided in the DE kits. As best I can figure, you'll get eight of each type in each box. You might also want to buy a Bogue or an Independence class kit, which will give you four more 3" guns that you won't use on either ship. That's because the Texas requires 10 3" guns. To tell the truth, full 5" guns are not required. You'll have to drill out the casemates and file them to the correct shape, but I don't think you'll be able to fit a whole 5" gun into the hole. I modified and cut down some 5" guns I had left over from the Indianapolis. You'll need six of them. Marc Flake Tarrant County Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: PulligS@aol.com Subject: defective heavy cruiser Someone had the reference right. It was Friedman US CRUISERS page 284. The ship was the OREGON CITY. That's the ship any idea what the defect was? Sam Pullig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Midway flight deck Well, I've poured over my resources trying to find an answer to this one. I know for sure that the Midway-class carriers had armored flight decks. Battleships had armored decks covered in wood, so the Midways could have had wood-covered armored flight decks. I found three color photos of Midway-class flight decks in "Carrier Air War -- in Original WWII Color." One photo shows one of the carriers at commissioning. The deck is a wood-tan in color. The other two photos show a dark gray deck -- one in 1947 the other in 1955. I see no evidence of planks in these last two photos. As far as I can tell, Friedman doesn't conclusively say whether or not the armored decks wre covered in wood. Best I could do. Marc Flake -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 36) From: PulligS@aol.com Subject: Re: Aircraft carrier decks I am sure there will be a much better answer but on thanksgiving day I was on the LEXINGTON in Corpus Christi. Towards the aft end in the landing area there was a large divot out of the non skid, about 2" thick and there was wood or at least something with woodgrain look to it underneath. As good as she looks inside and on the vertical surfaces, she sure needs work on her deck. Sam Pullig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 37 From: PulligS@aol.com Subject: Re: Hood name I cannot give a quote but someone has already given the correct name. HMS HOOD was named for the Hood family with some impetuous from the death of H.L.A. Hood. His widow christened the HOOD. The hood was laid down, at least one time, on the day he was killed at Jutland. This standard answer begs the question as to whether british ships receive their names before they are laid down. Any thoughts? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 38) From: PulligS@aol.com Subject: Re: USS ENTERPRISE CV-6 colors I would have bet money that she kept the dark wartime blue as I know I have seen pics of here, probably late 40's that way. However in Ewing's book the pictures when she was being scrapped in 58 show the normal postwar gray. There is an overexposed 53 overhead shot where she looks light. Sam Pullig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 39) From: PulligS@aol.com Subject: USS ORISKANY I've posted on the SMML site, a couple of photos of the rear of the ship I took with a digital camera. The rest did not turn out as the sun was on the wrong side. However I do have a good # of 35mm that turned out that I could scan and post if there is an interest. Let me know. I also have a few good shots of the TEXAS. Sam Pullig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 40) From: "Chris Neel" Subject: Re: Post War Flight Decks Check out the following picture postings for the USS Midway. According to the web site, these pictures were taken during a Mediteranean cruise in 1953 - 54. My favorite shot is the "F9F Cougar on deck from Vulture Row" - great color photo of a Cougar showing the metal deck painted in Deck Blue (?) or maybe its the gray color others have refered to - difficult for me to tell - I've yet to obtain my S & S color chip charts to compare.... but definately with "yellow" striping - see also the photo "Flight deck from Vulture's Row". At this time the Midway is still a straight deck carrier... http://www-personal.umich.edu/~buzznau/53-4medcrs.html Also, if you follow the "Back to Menu" link - you can hook up the to "Aircraft Carriers of the World" web ring - something I just found and looks like I'll be spending many hours trying to go through them all (there are 52 web sites listed). later cn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 41) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: Quality of Navies Very well said. Eugene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 42) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: Post War Flight Decks The Midways had steel flight decks from the day they were built. The Essex class modernized ships got a partial covering of metal. See the drawing in the USNIP ESSEX Class Carrier Design History. Flight Deck colors, at least as far as the Essex class are concerned, are a real can of worms. For instance, PRINCETON recommissioned in 1950 with a Deck Blue Stain deck and yellow numbers and markings. PHILIPPINE SEA had a natural wood flight deck with yellow numbers and markings. There seems to be little rhyme or reason to the variations during the late 1940s to late 1960s. Two good sources are 'The Hook' magazine from the Tailhook Association - from time to time it has had color pictures of postwar carriers - and a 1953 or 1954 National Geographic magazine article on the Navy in Korea, which had some great photos of PHILIPPINE SEA and other carriers in color. Perhaps some SMML type living in San Diego could be persuaded to visit the offices of the Tailhook Association and check their archieves for color pictures. Eugene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 43) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: INDEPENDENCE/Heavy Cruiser/CV-6 INDEPENDENCE (CVL-22) was selected for the Bikini tests because her torpedo damage of Nov 43 made her the least desirable CVL and the CVL was already (1946) not able to handle modern aircraft (jets) well enough. Only three INDEPENDENCE CVLs served the USN after WW II, MONTEREY and CABOT as Training Carriers, BATAAN (and CABOT for a while) as ASW and Close Air Support Carriers. The defective US Heavy Cruiser was OREGON CITY. She served less than a year on active service. Evidently her engines were defective as references (J. C. Fahey) say she barely made it thru her shakedown and was decommissioned afterwards. ENTERPRISE (CV-6) would have been painted Haze Gray with Deck Gray decks prior to being decommissioned. Until the early 1960s, the Navy had enough money in its budget, (at least money allocated for the task), to maintain ships in the reserve fleet. So until the early 1960s, mothballed ships looked pretty good. After about 1965 or so, when the money dried up, their appearance started downhill. Weathered paint and lots of rust became the norm. Sad, but a fact of life. Eugene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 44) From: LBart73@aol.com Subject: Re: Defective U. S. cruiser According to Norman Friedman in "U.S. Cruisers, An illustrated Design History" that would be the Oregon City, CA 122. The Oregon City was one of three modified Baltimore class heavy cruisers. He does not say what the problem was, only "The Oregon City was apparantly defective; she was the only one of the three to be decommissioned virtually upon completion, and she was never rebuilt as a missle ship." Lots of tax dollars down the drain on that one. Hope that helps. Larry Bartlett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 45) From: Tim Stoneman Subject: USS Juneau Another minor point not mentioned by the various postings on the 1/700 kits - the Skywave ATLANTA and its derivatives all have the same flaw; when the two parts of the hull are assembled, the result is a normal- shaped hull with a strip along each side, roughly where the armo(u)r belt would be, but markedly thicker than it should be, giving the ship the equivalent of a battleship's protection. I guess this extra weight would have played havoc with the speed (the much-vaunted 40+ knots seems to have been a propaganda-ists' or publicists' fantasy). For realism, cut the bottom of the two pieces in half from end to end, remove a lengthwise piece and assemble with the sides virtually flush with the upper part of the hull. Tim Stoneman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 46) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Revell Essex (was Waterline mounting) Michael... Boy, boy, boy...ya know, $125 for a 1:700 Oriskany is starting to sound pretty good right about now! (Whew!) For those who are really bad at math, what does six scale feet at 1:535 scale come out to be? Now I'm assuming that since the Oriskany was 3.5 ft wider than the other 127 ships, we're talking about adding 7.75 scale feet to each side. Okay, let me get this straight...you sit the completed hangar deck on the top of the existing hull. What about the port side sponsons (and the starboard side crane sponson for that matter). Sounds like they would have to be cut off and remounted outboard to compensate for their relative position in regards to the blisters and recessed exterior hangar walls. Mind you, this isn't that big of a problem as you might think. Given the Oriskany had a wider flight deck (that I'm going to have to scratch out of sheet styrene to achive the proper shape, width, etc) the angled deck sponsons are going to need to be mounted further out anyhow to compensate for this. Using the blisters, hangar deck, and additional interior bracing sounds like a good idea for reinforcing the hull prior to cutting it off below the water line. That's sorta what I had in mind to start with. I'm just trying to get some clarification on this so I can picture it in my mind. TBK, until I see a hull body plan of the ship though so I can see where the blisters start, end, are shaped, etc, this is going to be difficult to picture. Ah-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 47) From: Donald Bridge Subject: Revell Germany new kits Hi Guys. I've just been into the Revell Germany site and whilst the 1/350 USS New Jersey and the 1/72 HMCS Snowberry are still there the Wasp Class and HMS Illustrious seem to have vanished. Does anyone know if these have been canceled, delayed or never really existed. Don Bridge -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 48) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Revell Essex (Addenda) Michael I hate it when I misinterpret a message, only to read it a few minutes later and go "DOH!" I'm not planning on doing a -27C, I'm planning on doing a -125A (Oriskany c.1967-68). However, given the Lex kit has a notoriously narrow hull, that's probably where the confusion set in. Not having slept in 36 hrs though probably didn't help matters any though. Escalator...ooh, I don't wanna even think about that one yet. Hope this clears the fog. Me...I'm heading for the rack! Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 49) From: Alan Simon Subject: Draught Markings, Fletcher Class DD Reference The Floating Drydock's Plan No. Q-19xDD557 Class Outboard Profile. Puzzled by small number, single digit string arranged vertically, starting above waterline and extending below boot topping on late WWII Fletcher Class. At bow string is, top to bottom, 0-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-0-9-8-7-6 (5-4-3 pass through boot topping). At stern string is, top to bottom, 8-7-6-5 (6-5 pass through boot topping). Must be draught markings, but can anyone explain significance and why boot topping is marked differently at bow and stern? Thanks. Alan Simon Atlanta, Ga. Embarassed former Naval Officer (must have been daydreaming during OCS class over 30 years ago) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Shane Subjecy: SMML website update Hi gang, The SMML site has just had another update. Sam Pullig has posted some nice photos of the Ex USS Oriskany. There's also been another 74 back issues go up as well. These are in the midst of being indexed for the search facility. Regards, Shane http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Bill Gruner Subject: NEW 1:700 RELEASE...DL-2 class We have just received the first sample of the the new Loose Cannon Productions release of US Navy Destroyer Leader (Fleet Escort) USS Mitscher Class DL-2. This is an excellent new release patterned by Jim Strauss, cast in light gray resin, and complete with photoetch details. Decals will also be included. The model represents USS John McCain DL-3 during the 1966-68 Pacific tours. These were impressive ships, nearly 500 ft. long, 4700 ton full load displacement, and capable of 35 knots. They were also handsome and well-proportioned ships. We will receive our first shipments next week. Price will be $45.00. Thank you, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobies http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume