Subject: SMML VOL 790 Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:23:30 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Bustler Class H.M.Rescue and Salvage Tugs 2: Re: Resin Hulls and Bollards 3: Re: Modern Royal Navy Ship Colour 4: Essex's and armoured decks 5: HMS Rodney and Nelson 6: Re: Copper plating ? 7: resin hulls and bollards 8: JFK kits 9: Smart arses 10: Re: Resin Hulls and Bollards 11: USS New Jersey model 12: FSM's Great Scale Modeling 2000 13: Re: Resin hulls and bollards 14: Re: Part for Exeter Kit 15: Re: Bofors on California 16: USS Kennedy Models 17: Re: DD 540 18: Re: DD 540 19: DD 540 20: Re: DD 540 21: Re: DD-540 Name -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: NEW P/ETCHED BRASS DETAILS FROM WHITE ENSIGN MODELS 2: SMML site update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Tom Cole Subject: Bustler Class H.M.Rescue and Salvage Tugs Gentlemen, Does anyone know of specific reference books that deal with the Bustler Class Tugs? There were eight vessels of this class built between 1941 and 1945 by Henry Robb Ltd. in Leith, Scotland. I am in the process of building a 1/72 scale replica of the Foundation Josephine (ex-Samsonia) which was leased to Foundation Maritime Ltd. N.S. from 1948 to 1952. She was the basis for Farley Mowat's book "The Serpent's Coil". I have a set of plans drawn by Bill Dickinson from the builders plans but views of the winches, salvage heads, etc. are lacking. Any information on references that show the deck details would be greatly appreciated. Best Regards, Tom Cole. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: Resin Hulls and Bollards Hi Gene, Although the hull you are talking about is not one of ours, this problem is not uncommon. From a manufacturers point of view, packaging on such small items such as bollards etc. is always a problem. If the packaging is too loose, movement of the component can result in damage, if too tight, the packaging itself can cause damage. The reality is that although we at WEM certainly try our best to minimise such damage, it will invariably occur to a greater or lesser extent, depending on how the kit is treated whilst in transit. Another problem with bits, bollards etc. is that these are the small cavities in the mould which air bubbles just love to live in, often resulting in malformation on such details. Whilst I fully appreciate the fact that it is annoying and time-consuming to have to repair such faults, what are not cheap kits, their very expense is one of the root causes of the problem.. If the manufacturer offers to replace every hull casting or whatever, that has suffered such damage, the wastage rate of these expensive components would be extremely high. This expense would, of course, at the end of the day, have to be reflected in the cost of the kit, which would rise greatly, and, in my opinion, would be unacceptable (or more to the point, unaffordable) to most modellers. Whilst it would be nice to be in a position to offer every kit perfect in every detail, the economics of the situation prevent it, given the current technology. A partial solution we have adopted with some of our kits is to include extra cast bollards etc. which can be used to replace any broken on the hull. However, even this is relatively expensive as the cost of producing even such small items is relatively high, due to the labour intensity of the resin casting process. I hope this helps give some insight into the thinking of manufacturers.. we don't want to be seen as rip-off merchants but in order to make our businesses economically viable, the unfortunate reality is that the modeller may have to accept some degree of minor repair work. The big question of course, is what various manufacturers consider to be minor! All The Best Caroline Carter WEM http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "James owen" Subject: Re: Modern Royal Navy Ship Colour For modern RN ship colours I use a Holts or Halfords aerosol spray paint in Ford Ceramic Blue.(For touching up cars) Make sure it is one of the new acrylic type sprays rather than the old ones which are too thick. Apply in a few light coats rather than one heavy one. It gives a superb finish over a white primer coat. Wear a mask! Jim Owen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Essex's and armoured decks Hi Steven It was precisely because of the armoured flight decks that the Illustrious class were the better ships (an Essex could not have survived the pounding the Illustrious took). Four of the class were hit by kamikaze but all were able to operate aircraft after a few hours. Contrast this with the Essex class where a kamikaze hit meant a trip to a repair yard. Whereas a big airgroup was very useful it was not sufficient to guarantee the safety of the carriers, even when interceptor compliment was greatly increased. That being said it was the USN who developed and defined the strategic use of carriers - even if it was with lesser ships. It is not necessarily whether the ship is better but how it is used and how its strengths are exploited that is important. For carrier warfare the USN recognised where its strengths lay and based its tactics and strategy around these. This made it the most effective carrier fleet during the war. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: HMS Rodney and Nelson Hi Mark >> They ended up with two relatively mediocre ships on the whole. Because of weight saving measures, their machinery did not stand up well to the heavy wartime service. Because little time was spent testing the guns, they turned out to have a short bore life and so a greater change between firings. Because triple turrets were new, the sequencing was difficult and never was to be as fast as for twin turrets. << Not quite mediocre, both ships were very effective units. The problem with short barrel life was one which affected all high velocity heavy warship guns whatever the navy. However, the main armament functioned very well during the WWII, the early problems having been long cured. Basically they were extremely heavily armoured ships with a good (though not spectacular) main armament. Machinery was as you mentioned a problem but the Nelson seems to have born the stresses of wartime much better than her sister. Rodney and Nelson were not the best battleships built but were among the best, they did what was required of them despite their problems. As a design they outclassed everything the Germans, Italians and Japanese had and a lot of the American desgins as well. Chris Langtree Shane Many thanks for allowing this interesting discussion. Its subjects like this which add interest to modelling ships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Re: Copper plating ? >> So.....based on this information, it is possible that the Potemkin had a copper sheathed hull beneath the water line at some point. But hell, just paint it red!!!! << I find it hard to believe that the Potemkin was copper plated. Copper plates on a ship are very good ant-fouling measure for ships in tropical and subtropical waters (which is why you hardly found it on shipw who siled northern waters. There is one big but though, it can't be used on iron or steel hulls, because of the electrolytical effects involved. The hull and the plating just erode away. That's one reason that ocean going vessels had a wooden hull far into the 19th century, because of the lack of good anti-fouling paints made iron-hulled ships very un-economical in use. So I can't really see a late 19th century iron warship have copper plating, I guess that the crew wouldn't had any time to start a mutiny if it had... Erwin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: resin hulls and bollards Gene Larson wrote: >> I received a 1/350 hull a week ago, an update to a kit. When it arrived I noted that eight of the bollards were broken off. The manufacturer has offered to send another hull. Is it really worth that effort? The manufacturer states: "The broken bollards has been a problem but they can be easily replaced with a short length of .030 plastic rod." Is the suggested "fix" acceptable? << Gene: I have had the same problem and have replaced missing bollards with brass rod rather than styrene but I am sure either is acceptable as no strength is involved. I have also removed some molded in bollards and replaced them with the brass rod just to get rid of the draft taper (to ease removal from the mold )on the molded bollard. I considered the molded in bollards as good "locators" for the brass replacements. It's good that the mfg is willing to replace the hull, but I think the fix is quite acceptable and the mfg did good by suggesting the easy fix. Take care, Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL NRG member -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Denis & Marilyn Campbell Subject: JFK kits For Alan Simon - the Monogram Kitty Hawk is wrong in two respects- 1) it is actually the JFK, complete with the slanted smokestack 2) although the box says 1/600 scale, it is actually 1/800 I haven't seen their JFK but would assume they have decided to box the same kit under its correct name. For the purist, (that is, most of us on this list) you should sand off the molded in deck detail and replace with decals and do some work on the island structure but, for a beginner, it would make up into a fairly nice first model. The difficulty will be finding more modern aircraft for it in 1/800 scale. You could use 1/700 if you can ignore that they are slightly oversize. The same scale problem exists in trying to find photoetched details. I don't know of any other kits of JFK. Denis Campbell Avon MA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: Smart arses Hi Keith, I know it must come as a great shock to a Cultured Canadian like you as it does to Kultured Kiwi like me, but you must understand that Aussies only have two working parts: the mouth hole and the a**e hole and they are interchangeable! I refer of course to: >> I'm shocked!!! that you'd think I'd make a smart arse comment. I wouldn't comment on that - it's just way too easy ;-þ. I'll let others do it, like ex-pat kiwis ;-)). Shane << {:-þ) Lorna....... Keep him in order! Regards, Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo, tena he tao kupa kaore e taea te karo......(Te Reo Maori) For Heaven's sake Chris why would I bother taking him to task for a little comment like that one. Anyone who really knows Shane knows that he is capable of doing things that are more deserving of the Mistress's time and attention. Of course he may just have dumbed it down for you ;-) Mistress Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Vincent McCullough" Subject: Re: Resin Hulls and Bollards Gene, Fixing broken bollards with plastic rod works fine. Use an x-acto knife (preferably the chisel blade) to remove what's left of the broken bollard (i.e., the part sticking up above the base plate). Then cut a small piece of styrene rod and CA glue it in place. When you paint it, you won't be able to tell the difference. Vince McCullough -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "John Hopwood" Subject: USS New Jersey model I would appreciate any help that you could provide regarding the following: I have been searching for a finished model of the USS New Jersey, WW II version, with the intention of purchasing. Or I have also been searching for someone to build me a model of the ship by the middle of this March. It is for my grandfather's 80th birthday, he was an origional plank owner. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: TechnoInfidel@webtv.net (John Collins) Subject: FSM's Great Scale Modeling 2000 SMMLmates: Fine Scale Modeler recently released the magazine cited above. In addition to photos from the '99 US Nationals and several other contests, it has photos of models by at least two known SMML members. Mark Krumrey's excellent 1/350 USS Reuben James and my 1/700 HMS Repulse. The magazine is certainly worth checking out, especially for Julian Nordarse's award winning Russian cruiser Amur and Santa Maria. Both excellent models. I don't know if Julian is a list fellow. I was sorry to read in Mike Cvibovic's posting yesterday, that Dave Baker (or I, at least, assume that it's Dave Baker) resigned from the list, particularly over something as lame as chauvanism. One of the things that I find most offensive about the Internet is the power of anonymity. Some people write things that are so outrageously rude, insensitive and insulting. Things that they would never say to another person's face, for fear of provoking a fight. I think it's cowardly. It shows a lack of responsibility for one's actions, a lack of good manners and civility and that one's parents did not do a very good job or raising their children. We need to remember that the only way that we represent ourselves over the Net is by our words. Some are not presenting themselves as intelligent, civilized beings. Enough. How about Man United. Tied by Necaxa and mushed by Vasco de Gama. Oh dear, oh dear. John Collins Atlanta, GA Hi John, Congrats on your's & Mark's entires in FSM. I'll look forward to seeing them & the other articles when it finally gets to Aus. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Resin hulls and bollards To the suggested fix I would add the following suggestion, left over from my early years of modeling: Once the new bollards are set in place, you can use a heated screwdriver tip, or the end of a match lighted and then blown out, to flare the end of the bollard. Just hold the hot object closely over the end of the bollard and watch it flare. You might want to practice first on some of your plastic rod until you get the feel of things. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Allan and Crystal Plumb Subject: Re: Part for Exeter Kit From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com >> This is probably a tough one, but here goes! I recently purchased a UPC HMS Exeter in 1/500 scale. [...] The kit is missing the bow half of the main deck, part #5 on the instructions. Does anyone out there have one they would part with? << You'll never believe this one. Back before the reissue was available in the west, I arranged via I-don't-remember-who (Dave Wells?) to trade some Dragon aircraft models for a 1/500 Exeter from a guy in Ukraine. (Vlad??) I'd built the kit many years before, and tend to remember those fondly, and have always liked Exeter (York, however, is ugly. :-) So what arrives, but _two_ kits. As best I can tell, two complete ones, in different colors of plastic. Bagged, no instructions, but what the heck. Exeter is still on my unbuilt pile, and I definitely have two front decks. Tell you what: I'll trade you a front deck for a copy of the instructions. (And no, you really don't want to scratchbuild this part.) Allan Plumb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Bofors on California James... I covered some of this (and a number of other issues regarding this kit) in a post in SMML vol 743, msg #27 (boy, do I have my archives databased or what - NOT). While the plans in Profile Morskie #6 USS California show the 40mm mounts to be shielded, in actuality they were not. Per Jon Warneke (who researched and pattered the kit) in a message he sent me about this. >> None were shielded. Even though these ships got the huge blisters, they were still weight critical, and the shields on the 40mm's would have put the ships back close to their pre-blistering waterline (according to Friedman's book). << Hope this helps. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Paul O'Reilly Subject: USS Kennedy Models The 1/600 version marketed by Monogram is still the 1/800 (1/785) model. It is rather crude, in my opinion, but it may be adequate for a beginner. Most of the detail is molded on including the BPDM launchers. In fact Monogram sells this kit as other carriers. They seemed to have just changed the name and put it out on the market. They even sell it as a Nimitz! The photo on the side clearly shows the canted funnel which only the JFK has. Academy also made a 1/800 version very similar to the Monogram kit but it does have a few differences according to the Detail and Scale book on the JFK. The Academy kit is out of production I believe but you might find it in some hobby shops. I also made the kit for a friend who served aboard JFK but in the meantime he got out of the military, joined an airline, met a hairdresser in Bangkok and left his wife! Now I'm stuck with the model. I use it as a practice hull now. Paul O'Reilly Winnipeg, MB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: louellet@uism.bu.edu Subject: Re: DD 540 Rusty asked about DD 540: from http://www.uss-salem.org/danfs/destroy/dd540txt.htm >> DD-540 Twining (DD-640: dp. 2,060; l. 376'6" b. 39'7", dr. 17'9"; s. 36.2 k.; cpl. 329, a. 6 6'1, 7 20mm., 10 40mm.,10 21" tt., 6 dcp., 2 dct.; cl. Fletcher) Twining (DD-640) was laid down on 20 November 1942 at San Francisco, Calif., by the Bethlehem Steel Co.; launched on 11 July 1943, sponsored by Mrs. S. B. C. Wood; and commissioned on 1 December 1943, Comdr. Ellis Kerr Wakefield in command. << snip a lot of history >> She was decommissioned and stricken from the Navy list on 1 July 1971 and was sold on 16 August 1971 to Taiwan for use by the Chinese Nationalist Navy under the name of Kwei Yang (DD-8) Twining received eight battle stars for World War II service and five for Korean service. << Obviously there are some typos in the above text, DD 640 was the USS Beatty. But the information is correct for the USS Twinning. Larry Ouellette louellet@uism.bu.edu Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) U.S. Naval & Shipbuilding Museum Quincy, Massachusetts, USA http://www.uss-salem.org/ Hi Rusty, The following also supplied you with the same answer. But seeing as there were so many, I'd thought it best to just acknowledge some of them here. Apologies to all concerned. "lcp9" David Mike Settle "chenyangzhang" Chris Langtree "Ken Durling" Denis & Marilyn Campbell - who also direted you to the Salam site. "Frank and Carol Berger" "Malcolm Batchelor" who also directed you to the Salam site CapnAgee@aol.com Jowfx@cs.com John Fox Paul O'Reilly Cheers from a cold Winnipeg (-23 and falling) Regards, Shane - where it's 25 degrees -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Norman C. Samish" Subject: Re: DD 540 Hi Rusty, There are several photos of DD540 (USS Twining) at: http://www.plateau.net/usndd/dd540/index.html. The site says "The Twining reunion is held every two years. The next scheduled annual reunion will be in 2000. Plans are being worked out at this time. Plans for a mini reunion are in the works to be held in San Diego starting July 6, 1999. If you or someone you know who served on the USS Twining at anytime, there are a lot of old shipmates who would like to hear from you. For further information about the reunions or contacting your old shipmates please contact me, Glenn Robbins at: grobbins@cari.net" Norm Samish -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Charlie Jarvis Subject: DD 540 DD-540 was U.S.S. Twining. Additional photos and information can be seen at Destroyers On Line at: http:///www.plateau.net/usndd/dd540/ and Dictionary of American Fighting Ships Online at: http://www.uss-salem.org/danfs/destroy/dd540txt.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Alan Simon Subject: Re: The Name of DD 540 According to Destroyers of World War Two by M.J. Whitley, USS Twining is DD540. She was laid down at Bethlehem, San Francisco, 20 Nov 42; launched 11 Jul 43; commissioned 30 Dec 43; transferred to Taiwan, 10 Jun 68. TIP: go to http://www.navsource.org for quick and dirty way to find U.S. warship names. Select photographic files and search for hull no. Even if no photo available for given ship, her name is shown. Alan Simon Atlanta, Ga. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: DD-540 Name DD-540 was USS TWINING, not ALFRED WOLF. Never did understand how Floating Drydock let that one slip by. Eugene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: NEW P/ETCHED BRASS DETAILS FROM WHITE ENSIGN MODELS Hi Guys Have just had WEM PE 620 1/600 HMS REPULSE photoetched brass detail in. Please check it out.. Peter Hall's done a superb job on this one! Price? 16.13 pounds post free anywhere (around $25.00). Also, have uploaded 1/400 Rails and Ladders right here.. super set, and very good value.. 11.08 pounds only, post free. http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/wembrass/wempe620.jpg and http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/wembrass/wempe4001.jpg Thanks! Caroline Carter http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models White Ensign Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Shane Subject: SMML site update Hi gang, Another 120+ back issues of SMML have been posted onto the website. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume