Subject: SMML VOL 802 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:59:43 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Iowa Turrets 2: Anti Missile Defences 3: Ultra Pro Shape 4: Re: Conning tower viewing slits 5: FORRSTAL FIRE 6: Re: Ultra Pro-Shape 7: Re: Viewing slits 8: Re: Syringe purchases 9: Chicago and Halsey kit question 10: Re: Iowa Turrets 11: Viewing Slits 12: Medical Equipment Needs 13: BPF and Formosa 14: Conning tower slits 15: Richilieu 16: John Percy - Oops! 17: Pre-Dreadnoughts 18: Vosper torpedoboats in Sweden? 19: How to make view slits in small scales 20: Classic Warship's reply 21: Looking for back issues of "The Belgian Shiplover" Re: IJN Shipbuilding 22: Re: Derivation from the Royal Navy 23: HMS Rodney paint 1941 24: SS United States 25: Enterprise Hanger Deck Colors 26: Re: For sale :-) 27: Re: Best Ship, etc. 28: Video Clip of a capsized ship exploding 29: Re: In Harms Way -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: SMML Convention info on-line 2: FS: Books 3: Book for trade 4: New Stuff from WEM 5: Shiplist updated -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Dave Judy Subject: Re: Iowa Turrets Jim, If you can get it, check out Robert Sumrall's book " Iowa Class Battleships" from Naval Institute Press..........Great photos and drawings of these turrets, inside and out!! Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Anti Missile Defences >> HMS GLOUCESTER during the gulf war, we was the ship that Norman C Samish spoke of that shot down the Silkworm Missile at 0500C on the morning of the 25th Feb 1991., .......................as for the Phalanx it just did what it is designed to do i.e. defend itself, crossing targets do not pose a threat therefore will not be engaged, as for the JARRETT her Phalanx system worked perfectly, the only thing that was overlooked at the time was the fact that the group firing chaff would trigger that response. << From a guy who had always wondered how real soldiers actually fight. John's account is informative and sensible, especially about the part where you ignore crossing targets. Now about those who launch missiles. If the idea is to make an impression (aka sink a ship) why launch missiles one at a time. Wouldn't it have been more effective to launch decoys to precede the actual missiles and launch enough decoys and missiles to swamp the enemy's defences. Won't win the war but certainly a good morale booster and a warning to the Allies to keep their distance. Iranians, Iraqis. Anytime they launch a strike the Allied forces are going to hit back with overwhelming force anyway. It would make more sense to launch them all rather than hold them back as targets for the return strike. The Argentines launched enough Excocets to sink ships and would have made the Royal Navy very uncomfortable if not for the arms embargo. I also recall a Scientific American article (years ago) on the Phalanx that the depleted uranium rounds would strip the barrels after only two minutes or so of continous firing. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Joe Damato" Subject: Ultra Pro Shape The material you are referring to, Ultra Pro Shape is actually RenShape, a high density urethane foam. The company that is selling it, cuts up block of the material and charges you several times it's worth...beware. The material is manufactured by Ciba Specialty Chemicals and is available world wide. It is a standard pattern making material that I have used on everything from 1/700 hulls to full size jet engine nacelles. Any local model making shop should have scraps you can probably get for free..chunks you would need tend to be tossed out because they are too small to work with. If not, contact you local plastic supplier..anyone who sells resins, Plexiglas or mold making materials...they usually carry it or can order it. It comes in several hardness's. Some of the material we use is as hard as cast resin. Great for machining. A board measuring 2" thick by 24" wide by 5' long runs about $250.00. This is not that much when you consider how much pattern making you can do with that piece of material. Anyway, before you toss good money after bad, contact a local plastics supplier or look up Ciba and give them a call. Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: Conning tower viewing slits >> Any suggestions on how to make the viewing slits on the conning tower of a battleship or cruiser? << Alan, If you have a small enough brush, something like an eight-0 (00000000 written on the brush handle), and a steady hand, you can paint these onto the conning tower with black paint. I do it all the time and I think the results are great. Plus, if you mess up (which always happens), you just paint over with the base coat and have another try. Can't do that with your x-acto knife. The paint won't run like the marker either. Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "lcp9" Subject: FORRSTAL FIRE RE "The Chief didn't come out" I've seen this film & I've just got to reply to this! The CHIEF in question was trying to rescue his pilots, who were trapped in burning aircraft, not put out the fire all by his self. That was his job, and he died doing it. David Angelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Ultra Pro-Shape >> The February 2000 Fine Scale Modeler includes an article on scratchbuilding an aircraft using Ultra Pro-Shape. This material appears ideal for carving ship hulls, indeed the author of the article suggests this could be a use for it. The material is available from ADM Model Supplies in Florida, but does anybody know of a source in the UK? << I am the author of that article. The problem is that it was written back in 1996. It seems that ADM is no longer in business. I'm sure that Ultra-Pro-Shape is still available but I have been unable to come up with a new source. I have found a currently manufactured and widely available substitute. It is called Precision Board and it is manufactured by Coastal Enterprises, P.O.Box 4875, Orange, CA 92863-4875 USA. It is used to created 3-D signs and comes in many different densities. The hardest (#30) is very much like Pro-Shape except it is a tan wood color. I'm sure the same material should be available in the UK but I do not know it's name or manufacturer. The material is a High Density Urethane. And YES, it is fantastic for carving ship's hulls, as well as superstructures. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Viewing slits >> Any suggestions on how to make the viewing slits on the conning tower of a battleship or cruiser? << A little AMS (advanced modelers syndrome) at work here. Oh well, the best way to create these super small slits is to use decals. Just cut some dark gray decals film to the size you need. Decals this small look fine on ship models. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Syringe purchases >> One good medi shop I know of is based near to Oxford Street, London; also, the London Art Centres are good places. << Unfortunately, syringes can't be purchased in the US without a doctors prescription. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Chicago and Halsey kit question I'm collecting all of the Monogram box scale modern ship models and I need some help. I just purchased the USS Chicago and Halsey Monogram kits. Obviously, I only want 1 of each. I know Monogram reissued both kits as different vessels. Can someone out there tell me the names and manufacturers of the reissues of both these kits? Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Iowa Turrets ERIC OLSON writes: >> The main turrets on the USS Alabama are open to the public. Lighting may be a problem for photography, but you can go inside one of them. << This is also true for the Massachusetts and North Carolina. If you can't make it to any of the BB's, contact me off list and I can supply you with photo sets for these areas. Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Viewing Slits Alan Lindstrom wrote - >> Any suggestions on how to make the viewing slits on the conning tower of a battleship or cruiser? << Cut some solid black decals to the correct size. Works fine in 1/350 to 1/700 scale. Microscale aircraft or RR decals should provide plenty of material and they even make stripes in many widths and colors. Mike Snowbound in Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Ralph Batykefer" Subject: Medical Equipment Needs Mike Dunn posted: >> Afraid this doesn't help those across The Pond, but I'm sure there are similar stores over there. << I'm not sure what we can purchase or not, but I have contacted physician friends and recieved a lot of stuff. One time a doctor gave me an emergency medical kit that had forceps, scalpels, needles and a handy dandy rubber tourniquet (used to hold hulls together). A problem occured when a carpet cleaner (former drug addict) went into my modeling room/study and saw all the paraphenalia laid out. He bolted out the door and it took a lot of explaining to get him back in the house. This was especially difficult since he knew I am a pastor (former engineer). Fun stories... But I now have a bunch of equipment from dentist and other doctors that suit my work fine. All of it donated by the way! Ralph Batykefer (Northeastern Maryland - where my doors are now buried in white stuff) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: BPF and Formosa Hi Eugene Hobbs is more reliable than Winton in this case. The reason the BPF were preferred to the CVE's were because they carried more aircraft and so were more able to maintain the requesite pressure (ironic that). Formosa was significant enough to harbour several kamikaze units of good quality which needed supressing. The Illustrious's were preferred to US fleet carriers because of their better ability to absorb damage. After replenishment they went back to Sakishima Gunto for more operations between 1st and 25th May. As for the US Air Force their philosophy was different and they weren't that good at ground support. Did they ever take any part in kamikaze supression operations? The fact that there was a CVE group at Sakishima Gunto shows that the navy couldn't leave operations to the USAF and likewise in the case of Formosa. The BPF joined the USN for the attack on the Japanese home islands in July as TF37. On 24th July they were able to find an aircraft carrier the USN hadn't spotted and sink it. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Conning tower slits Hi Alan Try using a tool called a scriber (used for marking lines on metal) and then enlarging with very fine files. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Melvin Burmaster" Subject: Richilieu I'm building a Heller Richilieu and does anyone out there know what colors were favored for superstructure interiors? The old b/w phots don't help. I conjecture a middling gray to cut down on internal glare, but of course there is the old "zinc chromate" green as a possibility; or, perhaps white to lessen the need for artificial illuminayion? Given the attention the French Navy had to certain details, one can postulate that the French may have done studies as to a preferred "intrerior paint scheme." Send your salvos in response. MJBurmaster Slowly rebuilding the great fleet lost in the way of the Grand Armada ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: John Percy - Oops! Regarding John Percy's list of possible FSM articles: I think it's a GREAT idea that we can all relate to. He did, however, leave out squeezing a tiny PE part too tightly with tweezers, then hearing that gut-wrenching "snap" as the parts shoots across the room. You look up in time to visually track the part, so you know about where to crawl around and search. Half an hour later, you realize that the little bugger fell through a dimensional warp and never hit the ground. So, John, send your proposals to Terry or Paul at FSM, and let's find out if they have a sense of humor. Actually, approaching the craft from that perspective does have its serious, instructive side. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Summers,David" Subject: Pre-Dreadnoughts I'd appreciate "communal input" regarding high quality pre-Dreadnought iron ship models in any scale. The only kit commonly seen is the Revell Olympic; are any others available? I was encouraged by release notices from Japan concerning the Mikasa and Fuji classes, but import is turning out to be difficult. Do models of the HMS Majestic exist? The info specifically requested is 1) kit availablity and 2) kit accuracy/detail/completeness Thank you. David Summers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Björn Bäcklundx1bmQ= Subject: Vosper torpedoboats in Sweden? Apparently Sweden did order two torpedoboats from Vosper in 1938. They were used as T3 an T4 here and were of the smallest type that Vosper made then. Has someone a clue of what I'm talkin about. I don't! All I know is what I told you now. I would like to have one in model. Can anything be used from tne Revell or Airfix 1/72 kits or are ther something made in a smaller scale? Bjorn Backlund, Stockholm Sweden -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Loren Perry Subject: How to make view slits in small scales I ran into the view slit problem when I built my two Revell Arizonas in 1/429 scale. The way I solved them should work in 1/700 scale, too: I simply cut a long, thin strip of black decal stripe material and then chopped it into short, uniform lengths. When I applied these tiny decals to the armored conning tower, a very neat and clean representation of view slits was the result. This is far easier and more satisfying a system than trying to laboriously carve uniform slits into a plastic part. It's also easier and more controllable than trying to ink them in place with a pen. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Loren Perry Subject: Classic Warship's reply I strongly commend Steve Wiper of Classic Warships for his statement of regret about his earlier message concerning Mr. Jon Warneke's kits. It takes a lot of courage and character to step forward and publicly apologize for a slip in judgement, and Mr. Wiper is one of those very rare men who has actually done so. Bravo, Steve. As he so eloquently stated, the best way to promote one's products and/or services is to do so in a positive way, while not denigrating a competitor by name. Stiff competition among manufacturers benefits us all, but it shouldn't be the basis for a publicly aired feud. Some of us may feel we've been wronged by others, and this may result in strong emotions surfacing. In such cases, especially concerning manufacturers, the best way to prevail is in not by engaging in flamefests, but rather by "engaging the enemy" in the marketplace. This is my chosen field of battle against my rivals. And Classic Warships kits are evidently prevailing in their own theater of battle due to their outstanding quality and value. For the most parts, my competitors in the photoetch field are honest and hard-working people who keep their reputations and senses of humor intact. I have the utmost respect for these particular manufacturers and enjoy our mutual and ongoing contests of "one-upsmanship." We can't help but improve our products and services this way. As for the others, there are more dignified ways of getting one's point across. In my case, I simply re-design and upgrade my competing products until they far surpass my rivals' offerings and let the sales records do my talking for me. Incidentally, back to Classic Warship's products: their new line of books and photo albums on USN warships has set a new standard of excellence for works of this type. They are without a doubt the very finest publications of their kind ever produced considering the extremely low price being asked. The quality of the photography and artwork beggars description - it must be seen to be appreciated. These are truly a godsend to modelmakers. And each one is better then the last with no sign of where or how this series will peak. The books' sales at various maritime museums around the U.S. have apparently been very heavy and continue to be so, especially among modelers and veterans. Once again, bravo and well done, Steve. Loren Perry/Gold Medal Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Jonathan Parshall Subject: Looking for back issues of "The Belgian Shiplover" Re: IJN Shipbuilding I am looking for back issues of "The Belgian Shiplover" containing information on Imperial Japanese naval shipbuilding programmes, written by Dr. Eric Lacroix. Specifically, I need volumes 85, 108, and 137-154. These were put out in typewritten form in the late 1960's to mid-70's. Does anyone on the list have access to these back-issues, or know where to find them? If so, please post to the list or contact me directly at mailto:jonp@is.com. Thanks, jon parshall Imperial Japanese Navy Homepage http://www.skypoint.com/members/jbp/kaigun.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Suvoroff@aol.com Subject: Re: Derivation from the Royal Navy >> The U.S. Navy, as is every other major or minor navy currently in existence, is modeled after and/or derived from the Royal Navy. << Not true! While the US Navy was originally modelled after the RN, and there is strong RN influence in the early history of such nations as Japan and Italy, there are several European countries with their own independant naval history and traditions, outstanding examples being the Dutch, French and Spanish navies. Yours, James D. Gray -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: AJOWENS@aol.com Subject: HMS Rodney paint 1941 A quick question to the group, does anyone know what HMS Rodney's paint scheme was at the time of the Bismarck action? My (small) collection of books doesn't give me a definite answer on this one. Thanks! A.J. Owens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: SS United States Hi guys I have some news to share concerning the SS United States, passenger liner. The liner was purchased a few years back for $6 million dollars and the guy who bought it wanted to reuse as a love boat but he couldn't get the backing anyway the ship sat tied to a pier in Phillie. He didn't pay his rental fees for parking the ship so now it will be seizes by the US Marshals and put under gov't ownership also she has been made into a national land mark by the federal gov't. So her saga continues. Stay tuned for her next exciting adventure same time, same station. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: Enterprise Hanger Deck Colors Here is a response from a former crew member: "55 years since I was aboard but I spent a lot of time on CV-6 Hangar Deck repairing electronics on aircraft and I do recall the bulkheads were gray, the deck was gray, and the overhead was gray. No bright colors at all except for Emergency stations Fire apparatus and yellow stripes on deck to mark certain areas." I received a reply form another crew member who recalled the deck was "battleship" gray and the bulkheads and overhead were a lighter color gray. His comment was that no matter what color they painted the deck, it turned dark with all the traffic, grease and oil. The Naval Air Museum has a magnificent model of CV-6. There are several pictures on the web page. Perhaps there are some details there. Steve Singlar Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Mark McKellar Subject: Re: For sale :-) Keith Butterley wrote: >> Now wasn't that more fun than the "my carrier is better than your carrier" thread? << Hey Keith, My generator is better than yourr generator. Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Allan and Crystal Plumb Subject: Re: Best Ship, etc. From: "Franz Aigner GmbH" >> I recall (unfortunately only vaguely - somewhere in the "Battles in Close up" series?) that the Royal Navy did some research into the causes for success and failure in seabattles. The reasons were, in order of importance: 1) Tactical situation at beginning of battle 2) Standard of crewtraining 3) Quality of equipment (i.e. your "best ship"!) In short, comparing guns, armorbelts and speed only, leaves out other factors that are much more important to the final outcome than the academic question of which ship was "best". << (Hmm, I have (all?) three of those, will have to hunt for that.) My opinion exactly, based mostly on my knowledge of battleships via many, many sources. There just wasn't sufficient experimental data to say categorically which ship is "best". You'd have to run XXX against YYY a score or more times using different situations before you could say that one was better than the other in all cases, and the crews might understandably get tired before that. As I've said on the Essex vs Illustrious debate, each was better at some things than the other, but picking one aspect and saying it was the only or most important one based on the limited number of scenarios each faced is based on inadequate data. (Not that it's not fun to argue it. Find out a lot of things, too.) Also: From: "Summers,David" >> Racism caused a severe underestimation of Japanese assets and capabilities. << Yes. The converse was also very true. Allan Plumb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Video Clip of a capsized ship exploding Recently, on cable, I saw a familiar video clip. It seems to have been taken from an airplane and showed a large capital ship slowly capsizing. You can see the crew crawling around the hull as she turned over. Then, the ship exploded in a tremendous blast of smoke and debris. A magazine must have exploded.I have seen this clip used for several different documentaries, with the generic intent to show a ship in its death throes. The filming quality makes me think that it is from WW2, rather than WW1. I bet many of you have seen this video. On tape, in slow motion, it is even more amazing. What ship was this? And who were those poor souls? What were the circumstances? There was no mention of it in the credits. The ship obviously was not American. And I can't think of a German warship that blew up in this manner. That leaves the British, Japanese or Italian. From the brief glimpse I saw of the superstructure, my guess would be Italian. But I'd be happy to be shown wrong, as long as I finally know. Roger Clemens (Last call to add your name to our list of Pre-Dreadnought Enthusiasts. We are up to 35 SMMLies from 8 countries.) Hi Roger, Well, there's two choices - the Svent Istvan or HMS Barham. According to Warship International 2/1991, there was a widely shown film clip of the Svent Istvan slowly capsizing after an encounter with Italian MAS boats on the 10th June 1918. But there doesn't look like there's any explosions. Therefore, I'd go with HMS Barham, which was filmed capsizing & exploding in the Med on 25/11/1942. This clip is very widely used. These two, according to W.I are the only two live recordings of Battleships sinking. Regards, Shane - who's thinking very seriously about buying the Svent Istvan, since the Mistress is half Hungagrian ;-). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: James Corley Subject: Re: In Harms Way >> Just as a point of interest, this idea of carriers acting like mobile air bases to plans other than their own, was an idea the IJN toyed with twice. << The USN had actual experience with this system at Gaudalcanal, where the USN/USMC planes ashore would occasionally make patrols and divert to the carriers to refuel. During the Batlle of the Santa Cruz, some of the USMC SBDs (VMSB-242??) scouting for the IJN fleet landed aboard HORNET, refueled and sortied to return to the 'Canal. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Mike" Subject: SMML Convention info on-line Hi all, Just to let you all know that the SMML Convention info can be found on-line at: http://www.smml.org.uk/help/smml_con.html - or just use the link on the title page! More info will be posted as & when it's determined. Mike SMML Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: CokerRE@aol.com Subject: FS: Books The following items are for sale: Baker, Combat Fleets 1988 $45.00 Haws, the Maritime History of the World Vol. I to 1815 well illustrated $75. Vol. II 815 to present $80 Friedman, the Postwar Naval Revolution $35 Warner, Great Battle Fleets (color) $45 Galuppini, Warships of the World, large, well illustrated volume on the major warships of the world from1890 to 1983 $60. reply off list to PC Coker at cokerre@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Book for trade Hi; While packing I found that I have 2 copies of the Dulin and Garzke book on WWII US battleships. Who wants it and what you got to trade? Respond off list, please. Chuck Duggie PS-Priority to anyone willing to part with Guilmartin`s _Gunpowder and Gallies_. 2nd. priority to PT, etc. books. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: New Stuff from WEM Hi Guys, First off, apologies to anyone who has not had a reply to their E-Mail for the past few days.. I've had a nasty virus hit my nervous system that's made work nigh impossible (double vision, weakness and vertigo amongst other things!) and am starting to get back into answering the mountain of E-Mail that awaits. Well, arriving any day, we have the new Snyder and Short Royal Navy Set Two. These are priced at 14.42 Pounds and complement the first set of RN chips quite nicely... if you haven't placed your orders yet.. please do so now! We have JUST had a restock on the 1/700 HMS JERVIS 1945, with that nice camouflage.. some of you will have back orders with us.. we will despatch later today. Pacific Front Hobbies, Colpar Hobbies, and KITLINK will have their Jervis shipments sent later today so you can order from them as well. Price from us? 23.79 Pounds ($38.06) SENT AIRMAIL POST FREE. For a feature on the kit, go to http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/jervis/jervis.htm Also, have just received a new release, NNT 1/700 KuK RADETZKY 1916 (Austro-Hungarian battleship). Photo of the built up model can be found at the following page: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/radetz.jpg The kit is resin, and comes with a finely etched stainless steel photoetched brass set (2.75" x 1.5"), providing davits, anchors, accommodation ladders, anchor cable, crane booms, inclined ladders (no rails...) and material for the rolled torpedo nets. There are 3 pages of assembly/painting instructions, It is priced at 36.55 Pounds (around $59.00) UK and EC add 17.5% VAT. Shipping at cost overseas (around $4.00). NEW videos as follows: Another addition to this excellent series: BROADSIDE VIDEOS "DREADNOUGHTS and IRONCLADS", 96 minutes, at 11.06 Pounds ($18.00) PAL ONLY! and CENTURY OF NAVY, narrated by Robert Powell, a 2-video set detailing the 20th Century Royal Navy, from the turn of the century through the Dreadnought era, through Jutland, inter-war, wartime, and post-war, right up to the present day. Combines rare and unseen archive film with newly-shot footage at 17.01 pounds ($27.25) PAL ONLY! The webpages have had a mini-update, so please go to: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/news.htm I've posted a "new" photo of Peter Hall, and Steve Wiper of Classic Warships amongst others (sorry Steve.. it HAD to be done!). Thanks for your attention Caroline Carter White Ensign Models Hi gang, Well, I agree with Caroline, Steve's shot is a "Classic" ;-þ. Sorry Steve ;-). Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Shane Subject: Shiplist updated Hi gang, I have just finished another update to the Shiplist - both html & text versions. This covers PSM 19 & 20, plus other assorted magazines I've picked up. Pop over to the APMA site & have a l@@k - sorry couldn't resist ;->> Regards, Shane VP APMA http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume