Subject: SMML VOL 803 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:34:24 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Pre-Dreadnoughts 2: Re: Urethane Foam 3: Re: HMS Rodney paint 1941 4: Flags and Pennants 5: Re: Video Clip of a capsized ship exploding 6: Vision slits 7: Ultra Pro Shape 8: Loren Perry and HUGE debt 9: coming unglued 10: Re: What ship was it 11: Re: Syringes and Monogram ships 12: Re: Syringe purchases 13: Re: Oops! 14: Re: Chicago and Halsey Kit Questions 15: Looking for info 16: Video clip 17: HMS Rodney 18: Re: Anti Missile Defense 19: Polish destroyers in early WW2 20: Re: RenShape et al 21: Re: Anti-Missile Defenses 22: Syringes in the US 23: Re: Swedish Vospers 24: Re: USS Chicago and Halsey 25: Aurora CV-6 kit 26: HMS Jupiter 27: USS Alaska 28: Capsizing Ship 29: Svent Istvan or Barham? 30: Anti Missile Defences 31: The belgian Shiplover 32: Australia Day 33: On Making Water 34: Re: BPF & Formosa & Harms Way 35: California 36: Re: Chicago and Halsey kit question 37: Pre-Dreadnoughts 38: Vosper torpedoboats in Sweden 39: Vosper torpedoboats in Sweden? 40: RN Cruiser Colors...HMS Berwick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Exploding Battleships 2: Trade -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: Re: Pre-Dreadnoughts David, I did a review of the Hi-Mold 1/700 Mikasa in the November issue of Internet Modeler. http://internetmodeler.com/nov99/first-looks/hi-mold_mikasa.htm Since then I have started construction, and the kit goes together very nicely. On the downside there aren't quite enough rails for the main deck and the rig is somewhat simplified. Other than that I really like it. AFAIK it is still availabe from HLJ. Regards, Bob Pearson Managing Editor / Internet Modeler http://www.internetmodeler.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Rod Dauteuil Subject: Re: Urethane Foam Hi Gang, To add my 2 cents on carving foam, I use extruded pink styrofoam that's used in insulating houses. It comes in varying thicknesses from 3/4" to 2" and is also available in blue. When I built my 1/144 USS Hornet CV-8 (currently housed on board the USS Salem), I used this for the basic hull by laminating 2 pieces together with Liquid Nails. It can be carved and sanded easily, and will hold a glazing of wood putty or spackling. I'm a thrifty modeler (read: cheap) so I'm always looking for inexpensive modeling materials. A 2' x 8' x 2" sheet cost about $10.00 at Home Depot. I'm using the same methods now for the hull of my 1/144 USS Enterprise CVN65, only this time I'm going to try laminating thin sheet plastic to the hull. Rod. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Mark Shannon Subject: Re: HMS Rodney paint 1941 The best I have been able to find is that this period is not well documented, photographically. It is believed that she retained her medium grey, AP507B overall scheme until her refit post-Bismarck. It appears to have been originally done in late 1939, early 1940 time period, and would have been fairly scuffed and weathered, with the areas easy to get to touched up for corrosion control. The hull would have shown the normal rust levels, and probably would have looked about the same condition as the pictures of Prince of Wales in Scapa Flow in July 1941 or the Duke of York entering Sydney Harbor in 1945 -- that is, chipped around the bow and waterline, rust stains at the hawse pipes and beneath scuppers, etc. Metal decks would have been either the same gray or a darker version (AP507A), wood decks were unpainted. From what I can see of the pictures taken aboard in the early years of WWII, it appears that the floats and rafts may not have been painted to match hull colors. In 1940, it also appears that boat hulls were still in pre-war paint, in general. Both of these types of detail items show a contrast to the surrounding hull and superstructure colors that is hard to simply say is differential reflection on the same color paint used on different surfaces. I may be wrong on the detail items, comments are appreciated. (references say that the raft color was a chrome yellow -- similar to RAF Trainer Yellow. Older floats and rafts would have the ring part quartered in yellow and red.) Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Summers,David" Subject: Flags and Pennants It's very difficult to put believable waves into scale flags and pennants. What techniques are used by the listmembers? Thanks! David Summers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Mark Shannon Subject: Re: Video Clip of a capsized ship exploding I have seen both clips. The one that gets used most often is definitely not HMS Barham, as it shows triple main turrets. If the only other ship filmed in this condition was the Svent Istvan, then I guess it defaults. I thought it looked like one of the Cavours, but could not place any such action (unless it was the accidental loss of the Leonardo da Vinci.) I'm less familiar with these classes, but I guess a Terghetoff (?) class would fit the bill. Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Vision slits >> Any suggestions on how to make the viewing slits on the conning tower of a battleship or cruiser? << Forget brush painting oh, no way thats gonna come out right. Try using black dry transfer letters. You can slice them as thin as you want while they are still on the sheet. Either apply them one by one, or you can pre-arrange the little pieces on the sticky part of a sliver of post-it note, then put it where you want it on the model and burnish it down. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: GKingzett@aol.com Subject: Ultra Pro Shape SMML'ers I have been in touch with a company called Goldenwest re machinable foam. They sent me small samples. They have a product called Butterboard which appeares to have all the necessary characteristics. It can be sawn, sanded, routed, carved, primed and painted with no need for filling of the pores. It seems about as hard as basswood, harder than balsa, has no grain, and holds a nice sharp edge. Prices seem to be in line with what Joe of JAG reported for the Ciba product. Goldenwest has a web page: goldenwestmfg.com and seem very cooperative with info. Gary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Loren Perry and HUGE debt Dear Loren, now is the time to pay up. The wager, made at the 1998 IPMS at Santa Clara was that there would be NO end of the world because of Y2K. I WIN, and so I come to collect my winnings which I believe was ONE set of your superb photo etchings. I will pass this set on to someone in a foreign country who may be a little short of the readies. If you yourself have a name please let me know. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Mark McKellar Subject: coming unglued I've seen this topic a hundred times and never read it....I bought a kit that had been partially assembled and would like to take it apart and rebuild it. It's injection plastic...1960's variety....and is glued up with something that has a beige tint to it now. Any suggestions? Mark In Boston - where home heating oil is more valuable than most marketable securites -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: What ship was it There are actually two great videos of Capital ships capsizing. One is from WW 1 and I believe it is an Austrian (or is that Austrian/Hungarian) ship. The one you mention that explodes is HMS BARHAM in WW II. Michael Donegan Navydaze, Naval & Aviaiton Art http://members.aol.com/navydaze/INDEX.HTML -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Re: Syringes and Monogram ships Rusty wrote: >> Unfortunately, syringes can't be purchased in the US without a doctors prescription. << Find the nearest Farm store that sells vet supplies. You can buy all the syringes you want in just about whatever size there is. I use them all the time for oiling my trains. . . . >> I'm collecting all of the Monogram box scale modern ship models and I need some help. I just purchased the USS Chicago and Halsey Monogram kits. Obviously, I only want 1 of each. I know Monogram reissued both kits as different vessels. Can someone out there tell me the names and manufacturers of the reissues of both these kits? << I know the Halsey was issued as Leahy; I've had both. I *believe* Chicago was also issued as Albany, but my memory may be faulty there. They all show up on eBay now and again. To the best of my knowledge, no one but Monogram/Revell-Monogram has issued them. BTW, Brooke (DEG/FFG 1) was also issued as Ramsey. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Mike Dunn" Subject: Re: Syringe purchases Hi, Rusty replied to my comment :- >> Unfortunately, syringes can't be purchased in the US without a doctors prescription. << You're kidding me!!! Ordinary plastic or glass syringes??? And they say we have the Nanny State in the UK....... If you come across to London, let me know & I'll show you the shops. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Mike Dunn" Subject: Re: Oops! Ken wrote :- >> squeezing a tiny PE part too tightly with tweezers, then hearing that gut-wrenching "snap" as the parts shoots across the room. You look up in time to visually track the part, so you know about where to crawl around and search. Half an hour later, you realize that the little bugger fell through a dimensional warp and never hit the ground" << Nearly, Ken! What you actually saw was a "floater" in your eye - hence the amazing speed. The part itself rolled around the tweezers and dropped quietly & un-noticed between your feet, and under the bench, only to be found when you're building something totally different & can't remember what the kit was, let alone this tiny piece! Mike Hoping his back keeps getting better so he can visit the Victory this week-end, & get Shane jealous for 2 weeks in a row!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Alan Simon Subject: Re: Chicago and Halsey Kit Questions See Rajendra's List, v. 3.00 at: http://www.quuxuum.org/rajens_list/rajen.html Chicago was re-issued as USS Columbus CG-12 and Halsey was re-issued at USS Leahy DLG/CG-16. Alan Simon Atlanta, Ga. Where ship modeling was on hold without power, 1/23-1/25. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Ross Bruce-QBR000 Subject: Looking for info In the Jan/Feb issue of Ships in Scale there is an advertisement for a company in England called Quaycraft that sells small boats in different scales; has anyone out there worked with this company before? What I'm looking for is USN 26' motor whaleboats and 40' launches in 1/144. Any thoughts or ideas?? Thanks, Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Video clip Hi Rodger The clip is unlikely to be the Barham because whilst she blew up she did not get the opportunity to turn turtle. Also it was not shot from an aircraft. This leaves the Svent Istvan (one which I haven't seen so can't comment on). Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: HMS Rodney Hi A J Rodney's colour scheme was all over AP507B medium grey with natural wood decks. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: mornsbar@prl47.ping.de (Michael Kuehnert) Subject: Re: Anti Missile Defense Kelvin Mok wrote: >> Now about those who launch missiles. If the idea is to make an impression (aka sink a ship) why launch missiles one at a time. << Apparently, a well executed "smallish" surprise attack can do considerable damage as well, if one recalls certain incidents in the Gulf or the Falklands. >> Wouldn't it have been more effective to launch decoys to precede the actual missiles and launch enough decoys and missiles to swamp the enemy's defences. << In a future conflict, this may indeed be happening, but after the Alliance had gained air superiority in Desert Storm, it was not an option for Iraq any more. Though I guess such a saturation attack is exactly the threat AEGIS in combination with VLS is designed to counter, so any opponent will have to (and certainly will) think of something different. Maybe one of the veterans on this list can shed some more light on this matter? >> I also recall a Scientific American article (years ago) on the Phalanx that the depleted uranium rounds would strip the barrels after only two minutes or so of continous firing. << As far as I understand it, Phalanx has more or less always been a stopgap until better anti-missile defenses could be fielded. With RAM and ESSM arriving, more and more new ships that are expected to enter high-threat areas have one or both of those instead (e.g. German F12x classes, US Arleigh Burke class from DDG 83 onwards). A single Phalanx mount probably would not have enough ammunition for two minutes of continuous fire (3000 rounds/min) anyway, apart from that not being the application it was designed for: ASMs would enter the firing range at high speeds and hit the ship only few seconds afterwards, so Phalanx is optimized for short bursts with a very high rate of fire and only a few engagements overall (less than a Mk31 RAM laucher). Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: Polish destroyers in early WW2 Can anyone tell me the names of the three (?) Polish destroyers that made their way to the UK in 1939 after the German invasion? I think one of them was the Grom and another may have been Blyskawica. Was there a Bzura as well? Thanks Robert Lockie Cambridge UK Hi Robert, I think you've covered all three. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Tim Perry" Subject: Re: RenShape et al Hi all, Anyone in the United Kingdom needing a few scraps of this material, get in touch with me off-list. We use it all the time and I'm sure I can find some small off-cuts for you to try. If you need bigger bits, No doubt we can come to some other arrangement! Our material comes from Amber Composites based in Nottinghamshire, so anyone wanting a whole piece, get in touch with them directly. There are several grades, known generically ase 'tooling board'. Some you can carve with a scalpel, others are much harder and need power tools to cut, but they can all be worked into accurate, stable shapes for moulding, vac-forming etc. Warning though, don't breathe the dust generated by sanding the stuff, it can be a bad irritant to some sensitive to such things. Tim Perry Bristol, UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Lars Orloff" Subject: Re: Anti-Missile Defenses Kelvin, Launching en masse is a good tactic in certain situations, but whenever you launch a weapon you have to know where your target is. The Iraqi Silkworm shot down during the Gulf War was launched based only on vague bearing-to-target information (the Missouri group was over-the-horizon from the launch site). You see, the farther a missile has to fly, the more accurate the target information has to be at the time of launch. Even with perfect knowledge of an enemy's position, some anti-ship missile fire control systems will not allow a user to engage a target if the fix (position information) on the target is more than a few minutes old; the area of uncertainty of the target's position simply grows too fast. As such, a target could be out of a missile's seeker pattern by the time the missile reaches the target search area. Bearing-only launches (such as the Iraqi's) are possible but their success is extremely dependent on the range to the target, the accuracy of the bearing information, and the capabilities of the weapon. These launches are normally conducted either as an emergency response when a ship comes under missile attack from a known direction or if one's missile fire control system breaks down and a bearing-only launch is the only option. Third-party targeting is required for over-the-horizon engagements and is usually provided by aircraft; Iraqi aircraft could not participate in the attack in question (or in the entire war), so it really doesn't matter how many missiles were shot. Their targeting information was not adequate (in addition to the limitations of such an outdated weapon as the Silkworm). Also, I'm not sure the Iraqis had a significant number of anti-ship weapons or decoys available for a massive strike. I'm not entirely familiar with the Argentine Exocet engagements, but I do know that some of them were conducted at relatively close range based on electronic direction finding tactics. A technologically superior missile and accurate bearing-to-target information at close range resulted in successful engagements for the Argentines. Another issue is the probability of scoring a hit. If the first missile in a wave does not acquire the target (for whatever reason), every missile behind it will probably not acquire the target as well. That's why targeting information is so valuable; if you can't get the first missile to hit, you've probably just wasted every missile you've launched en masse with it. Lars R. H. Orloff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Lisa and Bill Wiseman Subject: Syringes in the US Rusty wrote: >> Unfortunately, syringes can't be purchased in the US without a doctors prescription. << Rusty is right unless you need injectable meds (ie insulin) or are a junkie in a big city, you can't buy syringes OTC. There is one exception: from a veterinarian. My bride's hobby is raising and showing dogs, we give all the shots (except rabies) to our herd. We just asked the Vet's nicely for a 'script for syringes and bought a box of 100 for about 15 dollars. Try talking nicely to your neighborhood animal hospital and see if they can part with a couple. They're not very expensive. Second place is to try livestock catalogs there are all types of plastic non hypodermic syringes used on large live stock. No steel needles but you can use them to measure and thin paints etc. Third place try the local Board of Health, explain who you are and why you need them and if you get a benevolent Public Health Nurse. you might be lucky. If you don't need the needle part, many stores who cater to infants carry the syringe bodies for measuring ans administering medications. Just a couple of ideas. Happy modeling Doc Wiseman New Windsor, NY Finally getting out from under 10 inches of the dreaded white stuff. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: Swedish Vospers >> Apparently Sweden did order two torpedoboats from Vosper in 1938. They were used as T3 an T4 here and were of the smallest type that Vosper made then. Has someone a clue of what I'm talkin about. I don't! All I know is what I told you now. I would like to have one in model. << Detailed drawings by John Lambert for T3 are on pages 36-38 of Allied Coastal Forces of WWII, Volume 2. >> Can anything be used from tne Revell or Airfix 1/72 kits or are there something made in a smaller scale? << No. Neither kit bears any resemblance to these two boats and the dimensions are totally different. It's scratch-building time... :-) Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Re: USS Chicago and Halsey >> I just purchased the USS Chicago and Halsey Monogram kits. Obviously, I only want 1 of each. I know Monogram reissued both kits as different vessels. Can someone out there tell me the names and manufacturers of the reissues of both these kits? << Hi Rusty, I believe the kit's you are referring to are the USS COLUMBUS and USS LEAHY, both released by Monogram IIRC. If you're going to build them (I've just started a HALSEY for a client) I have some good photos of LEAHY and HALSEY circa mid 80's I could send. I also just finished reading a great article about the tall ladies (ALBANY, COLUMBUS, and CHICAGO) in WI 1977 with some good pics. Regards, Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: John Impenna Subject: Aurora CV-6 kit Hi All, Anyone know how accurate the old Aurora CV-6 Enterprise kit is? How does it compare to the Revell kit? Any help appreciated...All of the posts regarding the "BIG E" have given me a bug to build her(I am tired of looking at the old built-up Revell kit on my shelf...ughh!!! not even a scale-foot of photoetching!!!!!) Happy Modeling!!! John Impenna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Robert & Rose Brown Subject: HMS Jupiter Hi there: Does anybody out there know what camouflage scheme and torpedo outfit was carried by HMS Jupiter at the Battle of the Java Sea? I have a photo of Jupiter passing beside HMS Kashmir (so it must be before May 1941 when Kashmir was sunk) and Jupiter sports a 3 colour scheme and only the fore set of torpedo tubes. I also have another photo where she is wearing a single colour (a light grey) but still with the single set of tubes. Thanks...Rob PS: Regarding Essex and Illustrious, both fine ships with great war records, but any discussion regarding 'best' or 'greatest' must take into account that they were both built by the lowest bidder on a government contract...... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Robert & Rose Brown Subject: USS Alaska Hi there: Has anyone built the Classic Warships 1/700 Alaska? Is it the best resin kit available of the Alaska in this scale? Same questions for the Classic Warships 1/700 USS Ward, is this a good kit? Thanks....Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "msyoung" Subject: Capsizing Ship I seem to remember the clip of a battleship capsizing and exploding. I am pretty sure it was HMS Barham. Barham was sunk by three torpedoes from German U-boat U331 off the Egyptian coast November 25, 1941 with a loss of 862 of her crew. Mike Young Springfield, MO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Bob Zobal Subject: Svent Istvan or Barham? >> Well, there's two choices - the Svent Istvan or HMS Barham.. . << >> Therefore, I'd go with HMS Barham, which was filmed capsizing & exploding in the Med on 25/11/1942. This clip is very widely used. << Conveniently, the turrets were different--triple for the Austrian, twin for the British ship, though in other respects the two ships were somewhat similar in vintage and appearance--and vulnerability to underwater damage. The Barham footage is startling--it appears to be simply capsizing, then the magazine goes up. It's amazing that either film even exists--once seen, both are hard to forget. Regards, Bob Zobal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: SJantscher@aol.com Subject: Anti Missile Defences Hi All, What Kevin said earlier about the CIWS (aka Phalanx) only shooting at targets it deems as a threat is correct. In fact, on the Saratoga, it was sometimes difficult to fool the guns into shooting at a towed target because quite often the geometry would be wrong, and the CIWS would actually figure out that the target wasn't a threat, and ignore it. The skipper never liked the CIWS/target shoots as there was always the very real possibility that we would shoot off the banner (target) and it would fall onto the ship, invariably damaging something valuable. There's also the story when during a run, the CIWS locked onto the tow cable and tracked it up and almost shot down the towing Lear jet. After that incident, we never went "hot" on a CIWS shoot until the tractor aircraft was over the ship heading outbound. On the other hand, I find it somewhat hard to believe that chaff clouds would "set off" the CIWS, as they would not meet the minimum speed gates. I believe the CIWS used a Pulse Doppler radar system, that requires a closing speed to enable track. Chaff clouds wouldn't be seen by CIWS. Kelvin states that >>... I also recall a Scientific American article (years ago) on the Phalanx that the depleted uranium rounds would strip the barrels after only two minutes or so of continuous firing. << My answer to that, is that given the rate of fire, and the standard magazine size, two minutes of continuous fire would be impossible. In addition, the DU rounds, as well as the training rounds have the same effect on the barrel walls because they are both using sabots, and the DU or training round never comes in contact with the barrel. In fact, if during a test fire we (on the Sara) fired into the wind, there was a good chance that we could fod the deck with the spent sabots coming back onto the deck. It didn't happen often given the mounts positions relative to the flight deck, but we always had a fod walkdown after a test fire. During the Gulf war deployment, we would test fire each CIWS mount once a month, most often just to check the system, and not firing at a target (just blue sea). Hope that fills in some blanks, Steve Jantscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "Arthur" Subject: The belgian Shiplover Hi there, Re the request for back issues of The Belgian Shiplover :- Try the University of Baltimore, Langsdale Library. They show the papers ending on 12/31/75. Periodical 1955-1964, 1970-1975. Under listing 99 Periodicals. 209.222.221.3/search/fperiodical/-5,-1,O,B/frameset&fperiodical&99,,1224 For Library Use Only, so you will have to contact someone there to extract the relevant issues for you I am afraid. Arthur -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: Marc Flake Subject: Australia Day Just wanted to pass on my belated wishes for a Happy Australia Day to all our SMMLies in the land of Oz. God Save the Koalaroo! Marc Where it's Australia Day here, but not there. Hi Marc, Thanks mate - much appreciated. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: Hargreaves Subject: On Making Water Lately there have been these incredible references to ships in water dioramas. Ships do look best afloat. So I decided to give it a try. Many thanks to the many SMMLies who share their modeling techniques. I went to Internet Modeler and downloaded Rusty's instructions on making water. From SMML I have weathering techniques with pastels and watercolours, use of Future, use of Windex to clean up acrylics. So to practice I took an old AKIZUKI and weathered her then over coated in matte. Followed Rusty's directions for water and cleaned off the hull with Windex. One question, do you thin the blue and green acrylics with water or use direct from the tube? Yup, AKIZUKI is now floating - what a difference! Now for a cruiser. Don't be afraid of adding the water. It's much easier than I thought to get a reasonable result. Thanks for the inspiration. George Hargreaves Calgary Alberta - where the weather remains confused. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: BPF & Formosa & Harms Way Chris - Just how many days did TF-57 attack Formosa? My sources show only 2 days in April. After TF-57 replenished at Leyte, it returned to striking the islands south of Okinawa, not Formosa. Formosa remained an area of responsibility for the 5th Air Force. Those four CVEs carried about 20 aircraft each fewer than TF-57's CVs did - when TF-57 had its full complement. TF-57 seldom had its full aircraft complement because the RN could not, on its own, support the BPF - even though the British Government had promised a 'modern, self supporting fleet'. I know the BPF attacked a Japanese CVE in July - its the only time the RN ever attacked another carrier. Nice they were able to do so, even if the ship was in a harbor and didn't operate aircraft. By the way, you said the Eastern Fleet was ready to 'clobber' Admiral Nagumo's Force in a night attack off Ceylon. Why did it retreat to Africa? I have the greatest respect for and admiration of Admiral J. F. Somerville - I know he would not have retired to the African coast unless he felt he had no other choice. Eugene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: Chris.Evenden@agso.gov.au Subject: California Fellow SMMLies Does anyone know if there is a 1/700 California CGN available in resin or plastic? Thanks, Chris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 36) From: "Hughes Family" Subject: Re: Chicago and Halsey kit question Rusty asks >> I'm collecting all of the Monogram box scale modern ship models and I need some help. I just purchased the USS Chicago and Halsey Monogram kits. Obviously, I only want 1 of each. I know Monogram reissued both kits as different vessels. Can someone out there tell me the names and manufacturers of the reissues of both these kits? << In the past I have build the following modern ship models from Monogram: USS Leahy, USS Columbus, USS Brooke and the USS Ramsey and I have not seen any other releases of the classes represented. After checking Rajendra's Ship Kit list this appears the only kits Monogram released. If you don't know already the Leahy Class kits are short 2 SPG-55 missile directors. Jeff Hughes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 37) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Pre-Dreadnoughts If you have a look on the lists of Pacific Front Hobbies or White Ensign Models, you will find a lot of kits of pre-Dreadnoughts. There are several resin kits of ships of the Russo-Japanese war from KomBrig and Modelkrak, which are of - at least - disputable quality. But if you are asking for high quality models, I'd like to recomend the following: WSW 1/700: Askold, SMS Radetzky, SMS Ferdinand Max WEM 1/700: Askold NNT (presumably Samek-built) 1/700: SMS Radetzky Hi Mold 1/700: Mikasa Classic Warships 1/700: SMS Emden/Dresden, SMS Nurnberg Iron Shipwright 1/350: USS Miami Blue Water Models 1/350: USS Bainbridge Revell 1/350: SMS Emden, SMS Dresden Heller (or whoever sells it now) 1/400: Potemkin Glencoe 1/225. USS Oregon (not really high quality, but it can stand against the Revell model of USS Olympia) I hope this will do as a start. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 38) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Vosper torpedoboats in Sweden Here's what I found in Conway's All the World's Fighting Ships 1922-1946: T 3 Class MTBs (built 1940) Displacement: 20t standard Dimensions: 60ft x 15ft 5in x 4ft 11in Machinery: 2 shafts. 2 Isotta-Fraschini 183 petrol engines, 2300bhp = 40kts Armament: 2 - 450mm TT, 2 MG Complement: 8 Class: T 3, T 4 Vosper-built wooden-hulled craft. T 1 and T 2, ordered from the Britsh Power Boat Co, were commandeered and never delivered to Sweden. Both were stricken on 1.4.49 but T 3 was used for gas turbine experiments between 1952 and 1959 and both were eventually sunk as targets in 1963. John Lambert/Al Ross, Allied Coastal Forces of World War II, Vol II has detailed plans and states: Two 60ft MTBs were ordered by Sweden in 1938, Jobs 1983-84 as T 3 and T 4, which were handed over on 28 December 1939. They displaced 25 tons with a hull length of 60ft and a beam of 15ft 3in. They were armed with two 18in Swedish tubes, twin 8mm guns in a type KSP M/36 mounting, and two single 6.5mm guns type KGM/21. They were powered by two Isotta-Fraschini petrol engines giving a maximum speed of 42.5 knots and 41 knots maximum continuous sea speed. The complement was between six and eight. The 'as fitted' general arrangement has been redrawn from Vosper Drawing 8839. The gun armament lacks detail and was, it is assumed, fitted on arrival in Sweden. Hope this helps a little. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 39) From: Johan Myhrman Subject: Vosper torpedoboats in Sweden? Bjorn Backlund wrote: >> Apparently Sweden did order two torpedoboats from Vosper in 1938. They were used as T3 an T4 here and were of the smallest type that Vosper made then. Has someone a clue of what I'm talkin about. I don't! All I know is what I told you now. I would like to have one in model. Can anything be used from tne Revell or Airfix 1/72 kits or are ther something made in a smaller scale? << Ahhh! This is an idea that I also have toyed with. That is to use the Airfix or Revell kit as a base for schratchbuilding. The T3 and T4 were 18.3 meter long boats with a deplacement of 20 tons. The Airfix model is to big for 1/72 scale but the hull might work in a larger scale. I belive the Revell model depicts a smaller boat then the Airfix. It looks more like the T3/T4 with a similar type of deck housing. However, the Revell type has cutouts at the bow for the torpedos a feature the T3/T4 did not have. There is also the Airfix RAF rescue boat but the deck has a very distinct curve in profile while the T3/T4 where straight. Anyway one chose, it will be a lot of surgery and schratchbuilding I think. A good source (if you don't have it already) is the book "motortorpedbat" by Curt Borgenstam and Bo Nyman. It has pictures, anecdotes and technical data on both boats and a lot of information on all other Swedish boats. The book is in Swedish. I think it is still relative easy to find in Sweden (to my great suprise I found this book at one of the foreign language bookshops here in Tokyo). It can probably be ordered from Hobbybokhandeln in Stockholm. http://www.hobbybooks.se/ Maybe someone wonders what happend with this two odd boats in the Swedish Navy? Both served through the war until 1947. T3 was used in 1949 as a testbed when the Navy evaluated the use of gasturbines for future torpedoboats. She was finaly sunk as a taget in 1963. T4 met the same fate. She was however salvaged by a private person, renovated and used as a yatch. All the best Johan Myhrman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 40) From: Christopher Crofoot Subject: RN Cruiser Colors...HMS Berwick I'm interested in the correct colors for the HMS Berwick circa 1943. I have one photo of her in a camoflage scheme described as...."a mid blue, very pale blue and light grey at bow and stern. All decks were dark grey." I looked on the Warship site at the D-I-Y color chip sheets but my real question is: Are their any experts out there that might be able to tell me which colors these were? Berwick blue seems possible...I just don't know that it is the mid blue described. Chris Crofooot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: Exploding Battleships Yes, re the footage, Shane was right... that WAS the loss of the Barham, surely one of the most horrifying pieces of naval footage ever.. it still hits me in the guts like the first time, when I watch it.. so.. I think that folks should know where they can obtain that film for themselves It is in fact part of NVTC Part 3 CLOSE UP FOR ACTION STATIONS This starts off by looking back at GANGES, COLLINGWOOD, EXCELLENT. Climbing the infamous mast .. The huge expansion of Minesweeping forays and the perils of East Coast Convoys, seen under air-attack as filmed from a destroyer escort. A unique profile of HUNT CLASS Destrovers at sea, including rare below-deck scenes. On board HMS BARHAM during the Dakar affair, being heavily engaged and towing the torpedoed HMS RESOLUTION, with further views filmed from HMS ARK ROYAL, plus the HMS FORESIGHT, HMS FAULKNER, HMS ESCAPADE,HMS DEVONSHIRE etc. On board HMS BARHAM, HMS KENT during her last China commission, with the HMS EAGLE, HMS MEDWAY, HMS CORNWALL,HMS DORSETSHIRE, HMS BIRMINGHAM, HMS LIVERPOOL, HMS DAINTY, HMS TENEDOS etc HMS WARSPITE, HMS RAMILLES, HMS VALIANT, HMS ILLUSTRIOUS, HMS COVENTRY and l4th Flotilla HMS JERVIS, HMS KINGSTON, HMS NUBIAN: Also HMS HEREWARD, HMS DIAMOND and Australian "Scrap Iron" Flotilla with HMAS PERTH. The bombardment of Bardia and under Italian air-attack, concluding with the final tragic voyage of the battleshlp HMS BARHAM and her catastrophic demise.... so, this volume is available from us right now, and in both PAL and NTSC (north American) formats. Please enquire with me, Caroline, re. prices. Thanks! Caroline Carter http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Tom & Carolyn Harrison" Subject: Trade Latest kit offerings from one of my Distributors list as new the Hasegawa 1/700 US Aircraft Carrier Hancock. and the Dragon release of the 1/700 USS Oakland. The following brass details sets and be used on the Hancock, set #700 $13.00 Essex Carrier, #723 $4.50 Figures and #742 $10.00 Perforated Carrier Catwalks. If your building the Oakland, set 704 $6.25 rails, set #711 $3.00 20MM guns with shields, set #723 $4.50 figures and should you want to convert the Cruiser to one of the early versions with depth charge racks set #701 $7.50 US Destroyers would do the trick. These may be reissues but they were listed as new by the distributor. Tom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume