Subject: SMML VOL 804 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:04:15 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: foam hulls 2: HARD (IMPOSSIBLE?) TO FIND KITS 3: Re: In Harms Way 4: Re: Syringes 5: Re: California 6: Ouestion: Kirishima Aircraft "42" 7: Re: HMS Barham on WWW 8: Polish destroyers. 9: Re: Flags & Pennants 10: Search for Used Books 11: Pre-dreadnoughts 12: BPF and harms way 13: HMS Jupiter 14: Video Clip 15: Re: Film of ship capsizing 16: Free 1:700 Dreadnought 17: Re: Flags & Pennants 18: Polish destroyers in early WW2 19: The Sinking of HMS Barham 20: CIWS vs. A-6 Intruder 21: Re: Conning tower slits. 22: Armored Cruiser plans? kits!? Maine 23: Aurora Enterprise 24: Re: Syringes 25: Flags and Pennants 26: End of the world - not 27: Re: Oops. Flying photo-etch. 28: Making Waves 29: Model Shipways Paints 30: Posing Flags and Pennants 31: OMP Scharnhorst book 32: Re: exploding battleship 33: Re: Syringes 34: New Ship Modeling Book 35: Pre-Dreadnought kits -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: USS Alaska -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: foam hulls I shudder at the tought of making a finished model ship using a foam hull covered with spakle or putty or whatever. Using that as a plug mold for a fiberglass hull is one thing, but using it as a finished hull is another. It may be fine as a cost, time and labor saving measure when making temporary models for movie studio use, but I would not use it for a permanent display model ship. First of all, a laminate of putty or plaster on foam might crack and flake over time, or warp or sag. But what really bothers me is, although it may look nice when it is new, it is still cheap, poor quality worksmanship. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Gillette, CDR Karl" Subject: HARD (IMPOSSIBLE?) TO FIND KITS My current (yet very long term) project is to build a 1/700 waterline model of each of the ships my father and father-in-law have served on. This list includes some rather obscure ships. Can anyone help me identify and/or locate existing kits of the following ships in 1/700: CLEMSON-class DD (early 1930s) USS CHEAMOUNT (transport) (early 1940s) USS PRESIDENT MONROE (President Line merchant ship converted to transport during WWII) USS TOPEKA (1946-1948) USS RUFF (Coastal Minesweeper) (1954) USS ROANOKE (CL 145) (1952-53) USS TERREL COUNTY (LST 1157) 1964-65) Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Karl Gillette -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: In Harms Way >> the Eastern Fleet was ready to 'clobber' Admiral Nagumo's Force in a night attack off Ceylon. << Considering the prowess of the IJN in night engagements- anyone remember the Iron Bottom Sound?- I think Somerville would have been in serious trouble both during the day and during the night in an engagement with Nagumo, whether it be from the carriers' planes or the destroyers long-lance torpedoes. Recall that the IJN was specialized for night engagements led by destroyer flotillas with supporting cruisers attacking advancing enemy capital ships. This was part of interwar planning on how to deal with the expected advance of the US Pacific Fleet across the Pacific to relieve the Philippines. While the Royal Navy also trained for night engagements, I think that neither their training, techniques, nor equipment was up to par with the IJN for this kind of action. Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Re: Syringes Let me clarify: at any farm/vet supply store in my area, at least, one can buy as many *steel needled* syringes as one wants in sizes ranging from tiny to literal horse needles. They are the real thing, most even coming in sterile packages. Now, some legislature somewhere will probably get around to screwing this up, but, as of today, in my area at least, it is perfectly legal to purchase these *real* syringes without any perscription, supervision, documentation, or regulation whatsoever. Anybody need a "dealer"? ;-) Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: California Chris... I believe Waveline puts out a 1:700 California CGN-26. I've seen it offered at Pacific Front Hobbies (having considered it myself for part of my California collection) Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org http://www.onelist.com/community/iscandar-66 http://www.onelist.com/community/USS_Oriskany -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: BECJPARKER@aol.com Subject: Ouestion: Kirishima Aircraft "42" I'm building the CW Kirishima (1/350) and need some info on the AC on the ship when she was sunk in"42" The Kit has Aichi E13A (Jakes) from the Tamiya Kit in it. This being the wrong AC my question Is what is the right AC? I think it should be either Nakajima E8N2 (Dave) Navy Type - 95s or, Nakajima E4N2 Navy Type - 90-2 or a possibility that it had Kawanishi E7A2 "ALF" Navy Type 94s. Can someone give me a definitive answer to this question and a reference to suppoet it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Scott Weeks Subject: Re: HMS Barham on WWW There are some stills from the clip on internet, at this address: http://uboat.net/special/barham.htm Hope I haven't repeated anybody. Scott -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Damian Pliszka Subject: Polish destroyers. Hello Robert and Shane, Not exactly. They were: ORP Grom (eng. thunder), ORP Blyskawica (eng. lightning) and ORP Burza (eng. storm). Greetings Damian Pliszka Slupsk, Poland -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com Subject: Re: Flags & Pennants Hi David, One nifty trick I read about somehwere, in an IPMS magazine I think, a long time ago, is to apply the flag decal to a piece of aluminum foil, let it dry and then trim and put your waves and folds in it. The hardest part is to carefully bend and fold!!!! I have ripped a few, but overall had good luck with this method...... Happy Modeling!! John Impenna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Search for Used Books After hearing here about someone waiting a year for Amazon to find a book I wanted badly - Blue Water Beat: The Two Lives of the Battleship USS California, by George F Gruner - I opted to hold off in hope of finding it elsewhere. The $63 pricetag was also daunting given my budget. I'm happy to report my (used) copy arrived today, a week after I ordered it. I found it totally by accident via the Abe Books website. http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abep/il.dll Through this link you can search for used books offered by stores world wide. My search netted three results, one was sold (as I learned following a email inquiry -- too bad too, they were only asking $33), the one I bought ($55 from Powells in Portland, OR), and another one in Austraila (the price of which I can't remember). IMO, lower cost and less waiting time is a very good thing! Given my luck in this regard, I thought I'd share it here on the list in hopes it might help those seeking out used copies of books that aren't so easy to find. Note, as previously stated here, this book isn't the greatest as far as modeling refs go, but it looks to be a great historical reference piece on a ship that references on are far and few between. Sigh...three down, two to go (re: Battleship Sailor and Turner Publishing's USS California). Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Suvoroff@aol.com Subject: Pre-dreadnoughts Mr. Pletscher lists the following predreadnoughts; >> WSW 1/700: Askold, SMS Radetzky, SMS Ferdinand Max WEM 1/700: Askold NNT (presumably Samek-built) 1/700: SMS Radetzky Hi Mold 1/700: Mikasa Iron Shipwright 1/350: USS Miami Blue Water Models 1/350: USS Bainbridge Heller (or whoever sells it now) 1/400: Potemkin Glencoe 1/225. USS Oregon (not really high quality, but it can stand against the Revell model of USS Olympia) << Also the Heller 1/400th Aurora. Both Aurora and Potemkin are available in reissues from some company in the former Soviet Union. Only (as far as I know) Aurora, Potemkin, Olympia, and Oregon are available in injection molded plastic, the rest are resin. However, if you go to 1/1200th scale there is a much greater selection in white metal from various companies. Yours, James D. Gray -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: BPF and harms way Hi Eugene So why did the USN want to attack Formosa anyway? The fact is that the USN valued the contribution the BPF were able to make because of their carriers ability to absorb damage and their willingness to help out in whatever way they could (as long as we exclude King from this statement). The USN were going to make sure that they and they alone destroyed the IJN (revenge for Pearl Harbour) and so any other navy was kept clear as much as possible. The fact that the carrier was in harbour at the time wasn't really that important as practically the whole of the IJN was stuck in harbour anyway. The achievement was to actually get the chance to attack the carrier. Sommerville's plan was to try and engage the Japanese fleet either at night or in bad weather when they couldn't use their aircraft. Given the poor shooting of the Japanese battleships this was not necessarily a bad plan but he wasn't able to get in a position to carry it out. After the losses of Cornwall, Dorsetshire and Hermes it was quite clear that he wouldn't get the chance and so withdrawal was the only option. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: HMS Jupiter Hi Rob Jupiter would have had just her fore set of tubes at the Battle of the Java Sea. I have the photo you mention and a later one of her still in the same camouflage scheme but modified. This is likely to be the scheme she wore at the battle but I'm only guessing. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Video Clip Hi Rodger I've just come accross the clip of Svent Istvan and its probably this one you saw. The section of film doesn't show her exploding but that may be where it was cut. What it does show are the crew running up the hull as she turns over. The turrets are clearly visible and are triples. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Loren Perry Subject: Re: Film of ship capsizing The film of the ship capsizing and exploding shows the HMS Barham after being torpedoed. Still photos taken from this film have also been used in various books on battleships and naval warfare. Truly a horrific tragedy - an awful way to meet one's maker. It makes me ill every time I see it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Darek Lipinski Subject: Free 1:700 Dreadnought Roman Detyna from the Digital Navy posted his new project free for download. Go to the site below and click on the Downloads. http://www.digitalnavy.com/ Darek -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Lamar Jones Subject: Re: Flags & Pennants Folds in flags can be easily achieved by using the very thin metal around the neck of wine and champagne bottles. It's very soft, and as such flexible. You can glue your flag material to the metal, drape as you wish. Halyard's can be run through a fold in the metal, which I usually achieve by simply folding the metal in the middle. Probably not for 1/700, but with care you can get a very good looking drape for 1/350 and larger scales. If the metal is primed designs can be painted, which, when draped, look remarkably good. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Darek Lipinski Subject: Polish destroyers in early WW2 Hi Robert, You are correct for the first two. As for the third destroyer the correct spelling is BURZA ( Storm ). Darek -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Norman C. Samish" Subject: The Sinking of HMS Barham From: "Caroline Carter" >> Shane was right... that WAS the loss of the Barham, surely one of the most horrifying pieces of naval footage ever.. it still hits me in the guts like the first time, when I watch it.. so.. I think that folks should know where they can obtain that film for themselves. It is in fact part of NVTC Part 3 CLOSE UP FOR ACTION STATIONS This starts off by looking back at GANGES, COLLINGWOOD, EXCELLENT. << Six photos of The Sinking of HMS Barham are at http://uboat.net/gallery/barham.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Mike Connelley Subject: CIWS vs. A-6 Intruder Howdy: Reading how it was hard to get the CIWS to fire at a towed target reminded me of something that happened a while ago. It might have been during a RIMPAC some time ago since a JMSDF ship was practicing with it's CIWS system. An A-6 was used to tow the target banner. Apparently the CIWS system thought the A-6 was the target and proceded to make short work of it! Thankfully both pilots ejected and were recovered in as good shape as one can imagine after ejecting. I bet those pilots towing targets are always a little nervous. Cheers Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Conning tower slits. Another material that can be used is black LETRAFILM. This material comes in many colors but I use the black for waterlines and white for funnel bands etc. You can also buy sheets of clear called "applique" and paint any color you wish. It is a material used by draftsmen and artists and has a tacky back which helps in positioning although you may wish to fix more firmply with a speck of dilute white glue. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Mike Taylor" Subject: Armored Cruiser plans? kits!? Maine Are there any plans for late 19th century Armored Cruisers - ie - USS New York or any plans available? and are there any kits available of the USS Maine?... Mike T Lost in Ohio where I have 12 projects going at once -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: Aurora Enterprise I built this kit a long, long time ago. Not very accurate - the Revell is far superior. Flight deck detail consist of the pre-WW II striping in raised plastic lines if I recall correctly. No planes, I don't think, and the Revell has those really cool 20 SBDs. Don't forget there is also a photoetch kit for the Revell, as well as resin parts from Nautilus. Michael Smith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: URUDOFSKY@aol.com Subject: Re: Syringes You can get around using medical syringes (which are very poorly made anyway) by using an adjustable pipetter made by Eppendorf/Pipetteman/Gilson etc. for laboratory use. Some of these pipetters carry a disposable "syringe" that can be fitted with an additional disposable fine plastic tip (these tips can be used as parts for models!). These pipetters can be set to deliver repetitive accurate amounts from 2 to 1000 microliters depending on size of the "syringe" and the setting on the pipetter. For example, if you wish to squirt out tiny 2 muL droplets on a piece you can just click away. Any laboratory supply company has these great pipetting tools (they go by the name of micro-pipettes, automatic pipetter etc.) Just go to your local university labs or health department or hospital labs to find out all about them. I use them everyday at work. I also use a lot of syringes for injecting, but not for aliquoting or measuring volumes (that would include paint and glue). I imagine the stuff is also far less expensive than medical syringes for human use. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "James Kloek" Subject: Flags and Pennants I have had good luck with the lead foil that used to come around the necks of wine bottles. (If you don't have any, it is a good excuse to go out and buy a vintage bottle of wine, but I digress.....) Anyway, cut a small piece, slightly smaller than your flag decal, and bend it into whatever shape you want. Then superglue it to the flagstaff. Once that is securely dry, just apply the flag decal to the lead foil base. Jim In Rochester, where even though they tell us the big storm that hit the East Coast missed us, we are still getting between 1 and 2 feet of snow off Lake Ontario. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Loren Perry Subject: End of the world - not Yesterday, a subscriber stated that I had made a bet with him that when Y2K came around, ie. 1 January 2000, the "end of the world" would be upon us and that I had bet him a Gold Medal Models photoetched shipset based on that outcome. While I never exactly said the "end of the world" was at hand (more like the end of many conveniences and necessities), the fact remains that I was not exactly 100% right and therefore the subscriber technically wins the bet. So Mr. Subscriber: here's how to claim your prize: Take your four-wheel-drive vehicle and proceed to Anacortes, Washington, about 90 miles north of Seattle off State Road 20. Board the ferry at Anacortes and, forty minutes later, disembark at Lopez Island. Drive approximately four miles south along Ferry Road until you arrive at what appears to be an abandoned two-story Victorian haunted house. Our compound is directly across the road behind a line of trees. Dismount your vehicle and prominently display a white flag while calling loudly for attention. Do not approach the compound until you have been recognized and acknowledged. At that point, an armed guard will appear and you may state your business. After our security team has searched your vehicle for contraband, you will then be escorted on foot past the outer perimeter and through the south minefield - do not attempt to pet the dogs or deviate from any verbal instructions you are given. Be advised that your actions will be closely monitored at all times on CCTV and an armed response team will be standing by for the duration of your visit with us. This of course is for your protection. Upon arrival at the front entrance, you will be searched for weapons and contraband. You must surrender any weapons at the entrance - they will be unloaded and held until you depart at which time they will be returned to you. No cameras will be permitted on the property. Smoking within 50 feet of the compound is strictly forbidden. A holding cell will be made available for you to wait in while a member of the group retrieves your prize. If you choose to purchase any additional GMM products while here, payment will only be accepted in the form of pre-1963 U.S. silver coins or U.S., Canadian, or South African gold coins. If you need extra MRE's or safe drinking water, our internal security force will be happy to provide it for you at no charge. Sanitary services will also be provided if required at an adjoining structure; your guard will escort you to and from the facility as needed. Once your prize has been delivered and accepted, you will be escorted back to your vehicle where your weapon(s) and ammunition will be returned. Proceed north on Ferry Road for your return trip to Anacortes and home. Thank you for thinking of Gold Medal Models. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: GKingzett@aol.com Subject: Re: Oops. Flying photo-etch. I can't recall any gut wrenching "snap"; my PE always reaches supersonic speed with a very distinctive "ping." The gut wrenching part come about as I set off across the room where I KNOW it went, and step on it on my way. I can never get it that flat when I'm trying to take out a wrong bend. Several times, I have been frustrated enough looking for a lost one of a pair that I've taken its mate and tossed it in the same direction, hoping it would seek out its lost buddy. It worked once. Gary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Ed Grune Subject: Making Waves David Summers asked: >> It's very difficult to put believable waves into scale flags and pennants. What techniques are used by the listmembers? << I apply a flag decal to a THIN piece of shim brass (the thinnest in the K&S line) and seal it with dull coat. I then lay the brass on some pins - and lay some more pins on top of the brass. So I get this: o o o ------------ o o o I then push the pins together to bend the brass: /o\o/o\o/o\o/ It helps to run the pins diagonally so that the wrinkles hang down from the fly corner. Ed Mansfield, TX we got an ice storm this morning and all the good ol' boys was playing hockey in their pick-em-up trucks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Model Shipways Paints I recently received a shipment of 10 colors in the Model Shipways line of new acrylic paints. To reiterate what Mike Eisenstadt wrote a few weeks ago, these paints are extremely thick as sold. I stood up a round toothpick in each jar and it didn't budge. I found that they performed marginally better in my Aztek airbrush when thinned with Testor Model Master acrylic thinner than with plain water. I, too, found them to be more grainy than other brands such as Tamiya and the Badger Modelflex Marine paints. On the plus side, I compared each color with my Snyder & Short color chips and the match was virtually exact in each case. Mike L Alexandria, VA USA (relocated now near the South Pole) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Posing Flags and Pennants Hello David, I usually apply the flag decals to foil. It is a bit tricky to get them to line up on both sides, but it is a lot thinner than paper and can be posed in almost any shape. You would want to practice with junk decals first, though. Regards, Duane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: Darren Scannell Subject: OMP Scharnhorst book Hi Gang, I just received the new Scharnhorst photo album book from Oxford Museum Press today and did a quick scan through. Lots of photos taken during the war. However, not being a major researcher or historical expert, the book has left me slightly confused about some of the captions. There is one photo that states it is the Gneisenau, it then explains that it is easy to tell since during the war the G had her main mast off the funnel and the S had it off the aft superstructure. There are 3 more shots, 2 of G and 1 of S that show the mast arrangements as stated. Then there are 2 shots of the S, one at commissioning and one at the Tirpitz launch that have the main mast off the funnel. Is it true that Scharnhorst had her main mast off the funnel at launch and then moved aft? if so, when was it moved aft? Thanks, Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: "Mike C" Subject: Re: exploding battleship I don't believe the magazines exploded in the video clip in question, whichever ship it was. You may have noticed that the explosion was concentrated in the center of the ship and did not occur until the ship rolled past 90 degrees. In my opinion, sea water went down the uptakes and exploded the boilers. This may be a moot point to make considering the devastation it caused, but it's a distiction that I thought needed to be made. Mike Czibovic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: CapnAgee@aol.com Subject: Re: Syringes Be nice to your friendly diabetic...we are nice people - really! I'm sure you know somebody and I'm sure that person knows you're a model builder. Ask and ye shall receive! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: New Ship Modeling Book Mike Ashey has written his second book on ship modeling, titled "Basics of Ship Modeling-The Illustrated Guide." This will be published by Kalmbach sometime in March, this year. I have been told the book contains approx. 400 black and white, and 30 color photos. There is much more coverage on resin kits in this book, with the captions being very informative. This should be very good. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Pre-Dreadnought kits Sorry, there was a typing error in my posting. The Iron Shipwright model is USS MIANE not MIAMI. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Alaska From: Robert & Rose Brown >> Has anyone built the Classic Warships 1/700 Alaska? Is it the best resin kit available of the Alaska in this scale? Same questions for the Classic Warships 1/700 USS Ward, is this a good kit? << To give an honest reply to this post, I would say that the Samek 1/700 Alaska is slightly better than my own (the Samek version has better superstructure details, but my kit has better main turrets and scribed wood decking?), but both kits suffer from a common fault, they both were designed from the same set of drawings, which are highly flawed. I realized this when I built my 1/350 Alaska using a very accurate set of drawings from Floating Drydock. There were a lot of differences! As for the 1/350 Ward kit I produce, there are many reviews posted (try the Warship web page) of the older version, which I improved, and you can view the kit, as it is now, on my web page @www.classicwarships.simplenet.com. I do believe that this kit has had nothing but high praise from any that have purchased it. Thanks, Steve Wiper - Classic Warships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume