Subject: SMML VOL 806 Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:58:06 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: U.S.S Arizona 2: Re: Syringes 3: Re: CIWS 4: Re: Ticonderoga 5: Birthdays Galore! 6: looking for 1/700 or so A3 Skywarriors 7: BWN USS Yorktown 8: Re: HMS Jupiter 9: Re: Poor model in FSM? 10: New (?) Essex Book 11: New Orleans 12: Formosa 13: Sommerville in the Indian Ocean 14: Re: Huge debt 15: Re: Kirishima Aircraft "42" 16: Attention garage chemists (not pharmacists, Shane) 17: Re: Subject: Flags and Pennants 18: Re: HARD (IMPOSSIBLE?) TO FIND KITS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: SMML Convention 2: FS 3: USS North Carolina -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "FRED W LIEDEL" Subject: U.S.S Arizona Wad woundering if anybody could help me a point about the Arizona. I remenber reading a long time ago that during the 1950"s some parts of her where removed but i cant remenber what and for what reason this was done. regards Fred Liedel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Mike Dunn" Subject: Re: Syringes The problem with pippettes is that they hold such a miniscule amount. OK, we don't use gallons of the stuff, but for the main areas, it's measured in millilitres, too large for a standard pippette, other than repeating it. But yeah, for the smaller amounts they're good. BTW - my wife thinks you may be able to get something from catering suppliers - for food colouring. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Lars Orloff" Subject: Re: CIWS Jeff, As a brand new ensign in 1993, all I was ever told about CIWS was summed up in a cynical sailor-created acronym: Christ It Won't Shoot. No one I knew had very much confidence in the system probably because they themselves had been weaned on the rumor that the system wouldn't protect them. I suppose the early problems and glitches gave it a bad reputation that stuck with it through the years because CIWS (thankfully) never had a chance to prove itself. (Yes, Stark's CIWS was not made ready by the watchstander to engage the Exocets.) Recently, however, I was shown a thirty minute videotape of CIWS Block 1 shipboard test footage showing engagements of sub and supersonic missiles from various angles of dive and missile terminal maneuvers (i.e. pop-up, terminal weaves) and I am confident that the system will protect me. I can't get into specifics; in short, it works extremely well. I have no reason not to be truthful; I am starting four years of sea duty this summer (including two deployments to the Persian Gulf), and I am depending on CIWS to cover my butt. If the system didn't work I wouldn't "endorse" it. Lars R. H. Orloff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Ticonderoga Darek Lipinski writes: >> I am looking for a good set of close-up pictures showing Ticonderoga in her early years. BTW did she ever get her above deck missiles launchers replace with the below deck cells? << No, there have been plans to upgrade the Mk 26 equipped CG-47 class cruisers to the Mk 41 VLS, but it has not been done yet. If you contact me off the list, I can provide you with on board shots of the Vincennes (CG-49), as well as an overhead mosaic of the ship taken from the Golden Gate Bridge. She is very similar to the Ticonderoga, and is equipped with the Mk 26 above deck launcher. What scale are you building her? I know that there are kits available in a wide variety of sizes, ranging from 1/48 (!) to 1/700 (and finished models of 1/1200 scale). One of our fellow list members, Lee Upshaw of the Scale Shipyard, sells hulls and fittings in 1/96 scale for the Ticonderoga class cruisers. Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography Overhead views of many modern warships a specialty. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Mike" Subject: Birthdays Galore! A certain Listmaster of our acquaintance wrote :- >> I'm gonna cop heaps for this - but what the hell ;-)) HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Mike Dunn - SMML's webmaster - may he get all the presents he wants. << Shane Jenkins - When you fly into London this year, you're a marked man!!!!!! Well gang, seeing as he started it, I know that you'll all join me in wishing Shane a very HAPPY BIRTHDAY and all the presents he deserves, as well! Enjoy the Bailey's, mate - or will Lorna allow you the malt? Yup - birthdays for both of us, one day apart. Frightening, isn't it? Dare I confess? My ship model present is actually a starship! A lovely resin USS Reliant to build sometime . What about you, Shane? Mike SMML Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Mike Taylor" Subject: looking for 1/700 or so A3 Skywarriors I know White Ensign has them. But I only need 3 and have nothing else to order to meet their minimum order requirements. Do they come in any other available kits/sets?, or does anyone have any to part with?.... Mike T -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Devin J. Poore" Subject: BWN USS Yorktown I seem to recall a few of you mentioning that you had acquired the Blue Water Navy's 1/350th model of the USS Yorktown (CV-5). If so, I'd like to know your impressions of it. I'm no where near "ready" to tackle a kit of this magnitude yet, but I'm thinking of purchasing it to put it in the "to do" pile for future use- and present drooling. I've had a strange occupation with this ship for over a decade now, something that you USS Enterprise fans can probably identify with. Thanks a lot, Devin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Jeffrey Roberts" Subject: Re: HMS Jupiter Mention was made of HMS Jupiter having one of her 4.7" twin mounts replaced by a single in January, 1942. Does anyone know which mount this was? Jeffrey Roberts North Hollywood, California -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Poor model in FSM? >> Would FSM show off poor quality workmanship? I think not. << I don't want to start a flame list against FSM. I want to be clear about that. However, I do remember reading a ship article in FSM some years back and noticing that the railing was glued on upside down. This isn't dig at FSM, I thought it was just funny. They print what they're sent and I doubt they take time to inspect every photo for gaffs like that. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Robert OConnor Subject: New (?) Essex Book SMMLies I am fortunate enough to live near Daytona Beach, Fl, the home of Embrey-Riddell Aeronautical University. Several years ago, I became a "community patron" member of the school's library, and as such, have full library priveleges. Being an aeronautical university, naturally, the library has excellent resources for the aircraft modeller. However, much to my surprise, it also has a significant ship-oriented section,and one which I utilize as often as possible. On a recent outing to the place, I discovered the following, a book I don't recall anyone having mentioned in the recent ESSEX-ILLUSTRIOUS debates: "The ESSEX Aircraft Carriers" by Andrew Faltum, Baltimore, Md,1996. As a sort of review, the book gives the history of the design of the class, as well as the anatomy and construction aspects, and a comprehensive war history.The significance of the Fast Carrier concept is stessed, along with the wooden flight deck theory. Faltum goes into the post war modifications of the class, and the general successes and problems encountered by the ships. The author provides a number of photos of ESSEX class ships in various design phases, as well as line drawings of camo schemes, atc. Overall, a very comprehensive publication for the enthusiast who wants to improve a scale kit, and for research on the best carrier class built prior to Korea- No wait, I didn't say that.That slipped out! Bob O'Connor, in a Florida so confused about it's weather, that after three days of winter cold the air is warm and full of pollen again. Break out the allergy spray and put away the coats. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Lamar Jones Subject: New Orleans I'm just now sorting through Classic Warship's New Orleans and can only say I'm very impressed with what Steve Wiper has put together. I want to let readers know that the USN's model of the New Orleans resides in the Louisiana War Memorial Museum, where the USS Kidd is moored, in Baton Rouge. The model was built in the 1930s and of course shows New Orleans as she then was. For those interested in the New Orleans class, and who happen to pass through Baton Rouge, I encourage a stop at the museum. Lamar Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Formosa Hi Eugene What a pity I rather enjoyed discussing this issue with you. Firstly the inconsistencies, you state that the 5th AF had not done much to deal with the kamikaze threat and so the USN. This means that your argument that Formosa was a responsibility of the USAF is irrelevant. There was a problem there and Spruance asked the RN to deal with it because they could do so without incurring as much damage as the USN. Remember Hancock had recently been damaged. The fact that it was on the RN's way back was an added bonus. Your question as to why the RN should be in on the 'final kill' is foolish. The RN had certainly suffered at the hands of the IJN and had every right to be involved. You should also remember that the Japanese attacked British possessions before the attack on Pearl Harbour was launched. No the decision to exclude the British was mean-spirited. Mind you the British were probably mean-spirited when they refused King that carrier (but it was King so to some extent it is exscusable). No Sommerville was right in his planning but he couldn't manage to bring the execution about. After taking the losses he did Sommerville adopted the only option he could (just like cricket England are always praying for rain)> Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Sommerville in the Indian Ocean Hi John You don't seem to have the whole of the East Indies Fleet so here it is. Force A Warspite, Indomitable, Formidable, Cornwall, Dorsetshire, Enterprise, Emerald, Napier, Nestor, Paladin, Panther, Hotspur, Foxhound Force B Resolution, Ramillies, Royal Sovereign, Revenge, Hermes, Caledon, Dragon, Heemskerk (RNN), Griffin, Norman, Arrow, Decoy, Fortune, Scout, Vampire (RAN), Isaac Sweers (RNN) Easily enough to fight a gun action even though if the opportunity arose. He wouldn't have ruled out a night attackby aircraft the inexperience of his aircrews and their obsolescent equipment he was planning to use his guns. Yohan The poor shooting of the Japanese battleships is a matter of record and for that matter their other ships too. For example the sinking of the Stronghold 2.3.42 took 1260 shells of which Maya fired 635 Exeter was sunk after 1459 shells had been fired at her and was only hit an hour after fire was opened. This on a ship that could not make top speed. The RN aimed for a hit rate of 10% (not that they achieved it all the time) by optical methods. With radar controlled gunnery this got better and all the RN battleships in Sommerville's fleet were radar equipped. The Japanese were just poor shots, an excellent example is the battle of Samar at Letye Gulf (broad daylight no radar controlled gunnery to contend with). You also seem to miss the role that personality plays in warfare. Because of Pearl Harbour the USN wanted revenge and wanted to keep this to themselves. That is why the BPF was excluded. Nothing to do with a homogenous fleet, as I've already demonstrated the USN valued the fact that the RN's carriers had armoured flight decks. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Huge debt >> Dear Loren, I'm on my way to collect. I shall be travelling across country from Long Island in my trusty and very reliable Cromwell tank (British of course). In the unlikely event of any breakdowns, I know that I can count on help from members of SMML as I pass through where they live. I do not have a driving license but as I'm English I don't need one. Look out the English are coming! << Now all you Brits dont take this seriously!!!!!! I think the reason your tank may breakdown, is the electrical system, by Lucas, otherwise known as "The Prince of Darkness". Reminds me of a joke. Question: Why do the British drink warm beer(room temperature)? Answer: They have Lucas refrigerators! I will have to say that I for one thoroughly enjoyed the beer consumed on my last trip to the UK. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: BECJPARKER@aol.com Subject: Re: Kirishima Aircraft "42" Thanks for the help on the AC. I'm still not sure as to what was the right AC. Maybe I'm asking the wrong question and it should be what was the last AC on the Kirishima. I'm aware that they were to have Jakes and that some of the Kongo class that survived may later have had them. Also one of my references indicates that Jakes were to have gone to the fleets in late 42 but I just can't find anything that say that they were ever on the Kirishima. Also like you pointed out during the night actions in 42 they (any AC) most likely were not onboard. My thought is that the Jake's didn't really seem to show up onboard anything until early 43. I guess this will be one of those question where we will all just have to wonder and there will be no definitive right answer. As far as ships boats go I think the Japanese like us found out early on that wooden ships boats don't stand up during engagements and stopped carrying them so your most likely right that they wouldn't have been onboard at Guadalcanal. I'll put them on any way they look neat. I'm just trying to decide now if I want to subject myself to trying o scratch a couple of Dave's as that's the last Ac I'm sure was onboard. Buy the way the kit is coming along well and is a great build lots of neat things you can do to it. As you know I'm a slow builder but it should look good when I'm done. Thanks for the info Charlie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Attention garage chemists (not pharmacists, Shane) This is one of those mysteries that make life interesting. I decided to try Blacken-It to treat the GMM PE parts I used on my Olympia build up. I believe it was Rusty White who suggested using it as a mild etchant prior to painting the rails to help the paint stick and to avoid tiny brass highlights where paint might flake off. It seems to work quite nicely for that. However, where I used the Blacken-It on parts that would remain unpainted, they gradually have begun to show rust - even through a matte varnish. That's right, red rust. This is not particularly a problem on the steel gratings on the boat deck, but it is a trifle peculiar where the shrouds and ratlines have begun to rust. A black paint wash does seem to get things looking more normal, but what happened? I suspended the parts directly in the bottle the stuff comes in by hooking them on a length of steel wire. Could some of the iron have plated the brass in the process? If I can control this, it might be useful on occasion, otherwise, it's a royal pain in the arse. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Re: Subject: Flags and Pennants The commander in the Tamiya T 34/76 tank waves a red signal flag. I used a better quality matte Scotch tape and wrapped it over the handle, trimmed it to size then painted it red with artists' tube acrylics. The flag was then crunched with my fingers to pose it as waving in the wind. A light touch of dry-brushed white paint completed the effect. Use artists' acrylics as this gives a certain "body" and "non plastic" appearence to the finish. It's pretty realistic. It (Scotch tape) will likely be as effective for ship's pennants as well. It is self adhesive, easy to trim with a pair of scissors and takes on paint well. Its also light enough that the weight of a row of pennants shouldn't create a "sawtooth" effect if the line is strung across a ship's mast. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) To: shipmodels@tac.com.au Subject: Re: HARD (IMPOSSIBLE?) TO FIND KITS Karl, USS RUFF (MSC(O)-54) was originally commissioned as YMS-327 ( a YMS-1 class motor minesweeper). There are no kits available, however, the FLOATING DRYDOCK carries plans of the YMS-1 class. I believe they are in 1/96 scale but can easily be reduced. Contact me off list if you have any questions on modeling minesweeps, I have built several. Matt Prager -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: SMML Convention Hello Fellow Listmembers, To expand just a little on John Sheridan's post yesterday, we would love to see some examples of your work if you can bring or ship them in. However, the contest will not be a formal judged event. This is more a social and seminar get together. For the 'contest' we will ask members of the public, visiting the museum, to pick their favorite model from those displayed. We may try to make an announcement in the local paper the week of convention to this effect. Also as a reminder, the museum is not willing to allow commercial transactions on the premises. However, any dealers attending are encouraged to bring samples and, if they so desire, make such dealings back at their hotel. We have been notified by a number of individuals that are comming and I must say we are pleased that Caroline Carter is heading a delegation of Modelers from the UK and Continental Europe. This means that our Convention is truly international. A while back many of you said you would be interested in attending, if you still are, please drop me a note. The preregistration is not a cast in resin requirement, but is to help us to ascertain how many are comming. Please, drop me a note if you are planning to attend as we have reserved the ship for the weekend. Registration info is on the web site and we will be posting hotel info next week. John Frohock USNSM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: CokerRE@aol.com Subject: FS THE FOLLOWING ITEMS ARE FOR SALE Ship Plans from Builders General Arrangement Italian Battleship Littorio 1940 from Ansaldo Shipyard 1/200 includes profiles, deck plans, transverse sections, complete set $50 Italian Heavy Cruiser Pola 1931 from shipyard general arrangement plans 1/100 scale includes profiles, deck plans, lines, transverse sections complete set $95.00 BOOKS Curti, Navi ed Aerei, guide to Milan science museum (Italian Smithsonian) $5. Gay, The Cruiser Bartolomeo Colleoni (Anatomy series) $30.00 Luigi di Savoia class light cruisers, vol 1 & 2 in Italian but well illustrated each volume $30. Staccioli, Trieste E La Cultura Marinara, history of port of Trieste in Italian $20. please reply off site to PC Coker at mailto:cokerre@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: USS North Carolina Has been on our website for two years and we are "cheaper" than That Other Company. Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume