Subject: SMML VOL 807 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:18:43 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Ship Photos 2: 20 mm Guns and Life Raft Canisters 3: Re: BWN USS Yorktown 4: Re: Syringes 5: A-3 6: East Indies Fleet 7: Metal blackening. 8: Arizona 9: Re: CIWS performance 10: Re: BWN USS Yorktown 11: Re: poor japanese gunnery 12: Re: Photo etch correction 13: Re: Attention garage chemists (not pharmacists, Shane) 14: US BB Nicknames 15: Re: USS Arizona 16: Re: USS Arizona 17: Re: Sommerville in the Indian Ocean 18: Russian Pre-Dreadnought antique book 19: Re: Birthdays 20: What our hobby needs 21: New books from Poland -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: looking for 1/700 or so A3 Skywarriors 2: FS 3: Re: BWN USS Yorktown 4: New Products From Loose Cannon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: MHOFFSS454@aol.com Subject: Ship Photos Shane - Noticed some interest in details regarding on one of my former ships - USS Briscoe (DD-977). Specifically RAM (Rolling Airframe Missle) Launcher, Spherical antenna dome on Signal Bridge (Above Main Bridge), etc.... I will research current ststus of RAM (we were LANTFLT Test Bed), ISAR (Integrated Synthetic Aperature Radar), and Guided 5 in. projectile projects. Re: Subdued coloration of hull numbers and ship name markings: Totally Dependent on OTC (Officer in Tactical Command), Geographic Location, Mission, and Status (HPO - Homeport; DEP-Deployed). Was the observer near Briscoe any time around when she was the Burial-at-Sea for the Late John and Caroline Kennedy? SHe could have high-contrast hull numbers incident to that operation. FYI, my second Skipper on Briscoe is now Commander, Naval Surface Forces, US Atlantic Fleet (COMNAVSURFLANT) - VADM H.C. "Hammerin' Hank" Giffin, III, USN. I'm attaching some pics from the public domain. Mark A. Hoffman LCDR, USN (Ret'd). Chief Engineer (ChEng)/Tactical Operations Officer (TAO) USS BRISCOE (DD-977) September 1982 - July 1985. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "William Oreto" Subject: 20 mm Guns and Life Raft Canisters I'm looking to purchase 1/700 scale, USN single mount with splinter shields, 20mm Oerlikons AA guns. I presently use the mold injected guns from SKYWAVE'S E-9 set. But these are out of scale and expensive. I tried 1/700 scale photo etch guns and found they lacked dimension as well as being too small and flimsy to assemble. Does anyone know where decent replacements can be purchased? Also I'm looking to purchase 1/700 scale modern USN life raft canisters, either stacked (1 upon another) or running in long rows. SKYWAVE's E-4 set used to have them but the parts set has been discontinued. The new FUJIMI 1/700 scale aircraft carriers are being sold and I understand from reviews that life raft canisters are not included in the kits. Does anyone sell life raft canisters in 1/700??? Thank you for any assistance. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: BWN USS Yorktown >> I seem to recall a few of you mentioning that you had acquired the Blue Water Navy's 1/350th model of the USS Yorktown (CV-5). If so, I'd like to know your impressions of it. << I have the BWN USS Enterprise kit and I can give you my impressions of it (My Enterprise kit came with a set of instructions for the Yorktown kit as well as the Enterprise kit). It is a truely amazining kit to build. The model includes the full hanger deck complete with crossbracing. The flightdeck is photoetched brass and has every detail in the universe on it. The aircraft come with photo-etch detail parts such as divebrakes flaps, gear doors, etc. When you build it, expect to take months putting the thing together because it is loaded with detail from every angle. John R. Sheridan I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 Last last place on earth I would look for the Lumber Cartel(tm) is http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: URUDOFSKY@aol.com Subject: Re: Syringes Eppendorf repeating pipetters can hold 10 ml cartridges and some can hold 25ml vials. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: PulligS@aol.com Subject: A-3 I do not have any, and will not build a model but if you end up buying some I will buy a few for no other reason that my brother and good friend were enlisted crew on them. Sam Pullig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: East Indies Fleet I was interested in the make-up of the East Indies Fleet in Early 1942, and with Vol two of the camouflage book being put together I am seeking views of the following in the early to mid 1942 time frame. ENTERPRISE (may have been overall white) EMERALD NAPIER NESTOR PALADIN PANTHER HOTSPUR FOXHOUND CALADON DRAGON GRIFFIN ARROW DECOY FORTUNE SCOUT (may have been dark hull & light upperworks) VAMPIRE ELECTRA ENCOUNTER JUPITER Any help with the above list would be very welcome. As for Vol one of the camouflage book, is just about as finished as it can be, given the constraints of size and the deadline date for publishing. There are some interesting things in it such as the special operations camouflage on the Arethusa in late december 1941, and I managed to put together the whole of the pattern for the Cleopatra as in early 1942; this was not an easy job! Probably the biggest gap involves those vessels that received the early Western Approaches designs and unofficial modifications thereto in the latter half of 1941. Not many photographs taken of ships in service showing these interesting patterns; and this was when the "dark blue" (an unofficial color was in use on escorts). Am still looking for Codrington (1940) and Whitshed (1940). Would like to include the Aurora, (she was camouflaged in april 1940 ,photo shows this to be the case but view is of far too poor a quality to resolve anything. Vol one will be laid out in Febuary and should be in print by the end of April if all goes well, and for those that so demand there will be eight pages in color. And just to whet peoples appetite they will be three patterns for the London as in 1941, who have thought! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Metal blackening. Hi Ken Interesting this. A UK company, Carrs produced a series of solvents to blacken various different metals. This avoided your problem as I've never come accross any rust. Basically you dropped the part into the solvent and a few seconds later it turned black. Time in solution governed how thick and smooth your coating was. You then fixed the change by running an electric charge through the part. As I've said I've never seen any trouble with parts I've treated in this way and they look very effective. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Arizona The Arizona was cut up a little more in early 1960's to make way for the new memorial that was opened in 1962. They removed the galley area that once held a make-shift platform as a temp memorial. The scrap metal removed was placed on Waipio peninsula. Up until not to long ago this area was accessible to reach and so was the scrap metal. Over the years this has been victim to scavengers and museums and even some has made it into private collections, mine is not for sale please don't ask. You can purchase a U.S. flag that has been flown on the Arizona flag pole/mast from the museum store at Pearl Harbor. They come in three different sizes and has a certificate that tells the time the flag was flown. Keith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: CIWS performance >> I am starting four years of sea duty this summer (including two deployments to the Persian Gulf), and I am depending on CIWS to cover my butt. If the system didn't work I wouldn't "endorse" it. << Rest assured the Block 1-B CIWS currently being deployed is vastly superior to the older versions. The older marks are also highly accurate and dependable weapons. I have a CD disk released by the Raytheon company that shows the gun in action. With its optical sighting system it's a very effective weapon. You can defend the home fires and not have to keep looking over your shoulder. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: BWN Yorktown kit >> I seem to recall a few of you mentioning that you had acquired the Blue Water Navy's 1/350th model of the USS Yorktown (CV-5). If so, I'd like to know your impressions of it. I'm no where near "ready" to tackle a kit of this magnitude yet, but I'm thinking of purchasing it to put it in the "to do" pile for future use- and present drooling. << I have the kit in my pile of things to do. It is excellently cast with lots and lots of metal fittings and a massive photo etched flight deck. It also has a complete hangar deck so you can go as crazy with detailing as you like. It comes with about 20 BEAUTIFUL cast metal a/c (you can make out the canvas covered control surfaces on one). I went ahead and bought a couple of extra a/c sets so I could fill up the deck and hangar deck. Mike doesn't sell the a/c separately, but if you buy the kit he'll sell you extras. The kit comes with nice decals as well. The kit is pricey but worth it in my opinion. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Re: poor japanese gunnery >> For example the sinking of the Stronghold 2.3.42 took 1260 shells of which Maya fired 635 Exeter was sunk after 1459 shells had been fired at her and was only hit an hour after fire was opened. This on a ship that could not make top speed. The RN aimed for a hit rate of 10% (not that they achieved it all the time) by optical methods. With radar controlled gunnery this got better and all the RN battleships in Sommerville's fleet were radar equipped. The Japanese were just poor shots, an excellent example is the battle of Samar at Letye Gulf (broad daylight no radar controlled gunnery to contend with). << I think these actions do not have much to do with poor japanese gunnery, just as the Bismarck action doesn't prove that Rodney and KGV had poor gunnery. One of the interestings aspects of WW2 naval action was the trouble all navies seem to have had to sink 'inferior' or immobilised warships using gunfire, except when a magazine explosion took place (ie Hood). It seems that a well run ship, with good damage control and modern magazine protection was very hard to sink at the distances involved. During these actions all navies tended to get quite close to their victim as this would increase the probability of a hit. These hits were very ineffective though because the hit scored were almost horizontal; DK Brown describes (in Warship 1995) the effect of the later hit on Bismarck as "merely redistributing the debris". It seems like most navies had forgotten the lessons of the early twentieth century (on the effects plunging shellfire) and were fighting predreadnought 'hail of fire' actions again. On the other hand, US and japanese navies had 'plunging shellfire' at hand with a range of 300 miles; effective divebombers that did sink ships. The japanese also had excellent long distance torpedoes and the skills to use them effectively. Also, during some other actions (Java Sea, 1st Savo) japanese gunnery was quite effective. And poor gunnery at Samar can partly be credited to the after-effect of 2 days of continuous attacks by aircraft of the 3rd fleet and partly, again, by the close distance of the fighting. I don't think japanese gunnery was that bad, and I also think it didn't matter that much. They lost WW2 in the pacific by submarines and aircraft, not by gunnery. Pieter Cornelissen Delft, the Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Photo etch correction >> I decided to try Blacken-It to treat the GMM PE parts I used on my Olympia build up. I believe it was Rusty White who suggested using it as a mild etchant prior to painting the rails to help the paint stick and to avoid tiny brass highlights where paint might flake off. It seems to work quite nicely for that. However, where I used the Blacken-It on parts that would remain unpainted, they gradually have begun to show rust - even through a matte varnish. << Sorry Ken. Wasn't me. I said I have NEVER cleaned or washed any PE. I know how the system works and believe me, all the detail sets are THOROUGLY washed before ever leaving the production facility as required by the EPA. That's why they don't need to be washed. Just clearing the air. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Attention garage chemists (not pharmacists, Shane) Maybe the problem is the copper that brass is made up of (+ zinc and very small amounts of other metals, depends on quality), which may be leaching out of the metal because of the way you are treating it. Strictly guessing, Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: US BB Nicknames On a lighter note (in comparison to the best of discussions as of lately) Can anyone tell me what the nicknames of the US BBs that served in WWII. I've yet to find a single source for these. I know some of them, but this is something I've always been sorta curious about. The ones I know of are... /Arkansas/ : ?? /New York/ : ?? /Texas/ : ?? /Nevada/ : ?? /Oklahoma/ : ?? /Pennsylvania/ : Pennsy, Liberty Ship (?) /Arizona/ : ?? /New Mexico/ : ?? /Mississippi/ : ?? /Idaho/ : ?? /Tennessee/ : Big T, Rebel Ship, The Tenny /California/ : Prune Barge (Argh, what a name!) /Colorado/ : ?? /Maryland/ : Mary /West Virginia/ : WeeVee /North Carolina/ : Showboat /Washington/ : Rusty W /South Dakota/ : SoDak, S#!++y Dick*, Battleship X, Big Bastard /Indiana/ : ?? /Massachusetts/ : Big Mamie /Alabama/ : Bama /Iowa/ : ?? /New Jersey/ : Big J /Missouri/ : Mighty Mo /Wisconsin/ : ?? * = Nickname bestowed by Washington's crew after /South Dakota's crew started rumors to the effect that Washington abandoned them, disengaged, and ran during Third Guadalcanal (IMO, can't say I blamed them). Read Ivan Musicant's /Battleship at War: The Epic Story of the USS Washington/ for the glowing details. Ya think someone would've put out a book on this by now, but if there is one I don't know of it. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org http://www.onelist.com/community/iscandar-66 http://www.onelist.com/community/USS_Oriskany -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: Re: USS Arizona Fred, There are several web sites related to the USS Arizona. They are very good about answering inquires. I visited the Arizona in May. There was nothing said about removing any pieces since they cut her down during the salvage operation. Good luck, Steve Singlar Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Arizona Hi Guys Concerning the USS Arizona back in the 1950s. My father who is a Korean war veteran once told me an interesting story concerning the Arizona. Back then the ship was a problem for proposed dock construction on Ford Island, it decided to scrap the Arizona and when a pair of divers went down with torches to start the job an explosion occurred because of gases inside the hull and they were killed. So the project was canceled. Also I do know that her remaining main 14 inch turrets were installed as coastal defenses but the project took years and wasn't finished until the war's end and then they were fired. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: Re: Sommerville in the Indian Ocean Hi Chris, Yes I did know of the entire fleet. However, you are overlooking a few facts. 1. Sommerville had already detatched Force B to head for Nigeria - he had worked out that the very slow R class battlewaggons would never have got in range of anything. Also, I may be wrong on this, but I doubt that any R class had surface radar at that stage of the war, although some sources state it is possible Royal Sovereign alone had type 284 "by 1942". The others seem to have got their surface gunery radar (284) late 42/43. They almost certainly had type 279 aircraft radar, but this was virtually useless in surface mode. 2. Force "A" was further deficient the two HCs - Cornwall and Dorestshire - who never joined (they were sunk trying). The two E class LCs were obsolete and the paltry 6 destroyers would have been hard pressed to maintain an adequate screen never mind find any surplus to mount attacks. 3. Although Indomitable was newly "worked up" her aircrews, as was the norm in British squadrons, would have contained a considerable percentage of experienced flyers - usually the section leaders and up. Formidable, on the other hand, was fresh out of the Med with heaps of experience - including Matapan. 4. Although the Swordfish and Albacores were obsolescent in comparison to other attack aircraft by day because their slow speed made them easy pickings for defending fighters, by night - where there were no fighters to contend with - this was of little concern and they proved time and time again that in night attacks late into the war that they were still very deadly (see Med theatre attacks ex Malta for example). They were also I think the only carrier torpedo aircraft at that time to carry radar. Paradoxically, their slow speed also made them very manoeuvrable aircraft which enabled them to hit targets inside very close screens - something more difficult for faster aircraft. Taranto is a classic for this. The Swordfish's deeds and exploits in WWII stand out for themselves - IMHO it was the most effective night torpedo bomber of the war. John Sutherland -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Russian Pre-Dreadnought antique book Hi Saw this item on eBay, I think this might be a real cream puff for somebody into pre-dreadnoughts. I dont really need a copy myself. It's an 1897 copy of a Russian photo book on naval steamships. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=246281379 Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Re: Birthdays >> Dare I confess? My ship model present is actually a starship! A lovely resin USS Reliant to build sometime . What about you, Shane? << I personally think it is great that you expand your skills with such classic items of worship. Although I am puzzled, why resin, there are half a dozen injection kits of the Reliant at my local hobby shop going for well below retail. Darren Scannell All I need is a ship and a star to steer her by (and maybe a photon torpedo or 10). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Keith Butterley Subject: What our hobby needs Hi guys, I spent a couple of hours today, before the Superbowl, doing some hardcore modeling. After a while I decide to go outside and clear my head of the paint and glue fumes. I started to think about the fact that most of us are a little on the mature side and there is not a lot of younger people noticeably involved in our chosen past time. After chasing the herd of unicorns from my backyard, which would have been easier if the UFO's had stayed away, it hit me. Our hobby is missing two key ingredients: A. A snappy theme song B. A celebrity spokesperson So do you think A. Phil Collins and B. Julia Roberts would come to SMMLcon? Keith Butterley Who is currently using his monitor to hold up his head after after having far to much fun at the neighbourhood Superbowl party. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Damian Pliszka Subject: New books from Poland Hi all, I just found information that soon there will be released new Profile Morskie No.21 IJN Yubari and No.22 IJN Tama. Greetings Damian Pliszka Slupsk, Poland -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: looking for 1/700 or so A3 Skywarriors Hi Mike, If you just want a set of Skywarriors as a one-off, that's no problem .. I don't get too snotty about minimum ordering quantities on a first order.. and anyway, you haven't got a set of pricelists yet .. if an order is below 9 quid then that's no problem, and the item is still post free, but I normally add 1.00 pounds processing charge, so, under "normal" circumstances, I would normally charge 3.95 for that sale rather than 2.95. You see, the shipping cost alone actually costs us 1.35 pounds on that item, due to the extra weight of the box and packaging sent to protect it (our smallest boxes also cost us 25pence, then there's the packer's time etc etc.. so you can see why we normally do it!). You would only be charged 2.95 on this occasion ($4.66). Also, as our regulars will be aware, re back ordered WEM (own-make) gear, IF a couple of back orders are available and come to less than the 9.00 minimum, we will normally ship them post free with no minimum order charge... so the price you sees is the price you pays! I remember someone complaining a while back about being charged a (considerable) mailing charge on every back ordered item, and almost responded then. Well, our shipping overseas is done BY WEIGHT, so.. this means that a 1kg package to e.g. the States would be 7.50 pounds airmail, and a 2 kilo package would cost 15.00 Pounds. Can't get fairer than that really! WEM gear is post-free with no extra charge on b/ordered (currently out of stock) items. Hope to hear from you soon, Caroline Carter WEM PS When you see those Skywarriors, you'll be back for more stuff anyway!! http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Gary Au" Subject: FS I have the followings kits for sale. All in mint condition (click the link below for a sample photo of the Kilo Sub. kit selling). I will pay the air mailing cost with insurance and will ship from Hong Kong. Payments will be by USD Cash wrapped with colored paper in an envelope by registered airmail. Kit will send when money received. Please contact me off list for details. 1) 1/350 MB Model Resin USS Seawolf at USD65.00 2) 1/350 MB Model Resin Russian Akula at USD45.00 3) 1/350 MB Model Resin USS Sturgeon at USD44.00 4) 1/350 MB Model Resin Russian Kilo at USD45.00 http://www.glink.net.hk/~garyckau/B012.jpg 5) 1/700 SeaLine Model Resin USS Virginia at USD54.00 6) 1/700 Pitroad (Hi-mold) Resin USS Blue Ridge at USD100.00 7) 1/700 Pitroad Metal metal plane B-36 Peace Maker at USD16.00 For my reference, please try my previous buying and selling transaction records in ebay.com, although they are all SF products. http://cgi2.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=garyckau Best Wishes, Gary, Hong Kong. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: James Corley Subject: Re: BWN USS Yorktown >> I seem to recall a few of you mentioning that you had acquired the Blue Water Navy's 1/350th model of the USS Yorktown (CV-5). If so, I'd like to know your impressions of it. I'm no where near "ready" to tackle a kit of this magnitude yet, but I'm thinking of purchasing it to put it in the "to do" pile for future use- and present drooling. I've had a strange occupation with this ship for over a decade now, something that you USS Enterprise fans can probably identify with. << I have said it before and I'll say it again. Once Nautilus Models has the hangar deck set finished this summer, you will be able to have a 1/480 scale USS Yorktown that is about 3.5" shorter than the BWN kit for under $200 total! This includes the Revell kit, the Nautilus updates, WEM aircraft and the GMM photoetch. The question is this: is the slight difference in size and quality worth $700? OK, $500 if you get a good deal. Of course, I am biased towards my own products, but I do endorse the products that others have made to improve this kit. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "lcp9" Subject: New Products From Loose Cannon Loose Cannon Productions is pleased to announce 4 new accessory packages for 1/700 hip modelers: 5"/38 twin closed mounts. pkg of 10 for $11.00 These are NOT remolded Skywave pieces, but properly shaped & scaled cast turrets. Alll 4 sighting hoods are cast with the turret , and the separately cast gun barrels have the proper length & taper, with cast blast bags LCM ; LCVP ; LCP (R) (Higgins boat with bow ramp) Package of 10 each.$11.00. ALL PRICES INCLUDE SURFACE POSTAGE. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume