Subject: SMML VOL 810 Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 23:48:35 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Snappy theme song 2: Bismarck aircraft 3: Which paint to use on ship models ? 4: Re: Tamiya kits 1:350 5: Re: Life Rafts 6: Re: CIWS 7: Life Rafts 8: What our hobby needs - is a good spokes, er, person 9: On Netherlands Navy in early war 10: Pearl Harboru Jap Subs. 11: Navis Magazine 12: Re: BB CA/CL Floatplanes 13: Re: BWN Yorktown 14: Re: IJN TYPE A Submarine 15: Brit attack! 16: Gunnery 17: Sommerville 18: DD with Catapults 19: Re: brass expansion/contraction 20: Ko-Hyoteki 21: Spring Styles Book 22: Prince of Wales camouflage 23: Re: What hobby needs 24: A Slight Diversion 25: An apology 26: Minicraft 27: Re: 2 Man Japanese sub 28: A POST - YE GODS!!! 29: Re: Bolzano -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: NEW ARRIVALS FROM WEM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Tom Eisenhour Subject: Re: Snappy theme song Rusty White wrote: >> Bits and Pieces Dave Clark Five << Perfect! Now all we need is a celebrity spokesperson. I wonder if Brian Boitano is available? Yours in styrene, Tom Eisenhour -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Bismarck aircraft I could use a little help here on what colors to paint my aircraft on the Bismarck I'm about to build. Anyone one have the correct answer. Thanx, Keith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Reidar Berg Subject: Which paint to use on ship models ? When I am working with ship models and ready to start painting I always start thinking, what paints to use? The paint I wish to use must be easy to brush (cover the surface and don't show brush strokes) and also easy to use in my air-brush (no clogging, good flow). So far I have best experience with Humbrol Satin colours, good to brush but they can be a pain in the ass to air-brush sometimes. Any other good suggestions (I guess there is a lot of opinions out there concerning this question)? Reidar Berg, Narvik, Norway -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Tamiya kits 1:350 Keith... I just ordered the Missouri last night from Model Expo, and the prices are still at that wonderfuly low price. I'd been planning to do so, but was skittish after seeing the size of the Yamato I ordered (where am I going to put this thing, and the Missouri is longer...eek). However, with Mike Ashley's article out in FSM, I thought I'd better go ahead and grab one now to put on the build later pile while they were still available at that price. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Ross Bruce-QBR000 Subject: Re: Life Rafts >> 2) Any suggestions on how to model the flotation netting on American ships, often placed on turret tops. (ex. USS Chicago and USS Louisville during 1943) I've had no success in recreating this stuff, any success stories out there. << Here's what I do, I work in 1/144 primarily but I imagine that it could be adapted to almost any scale. I get a piece of plastic tubing that measures out to be about 8" in diameter, then cut off sections that are to the correct length (I've seen long sections and short sections, best to consult pictures). Then take some thread and link them together with a little of the line showing in between. Paint them, and then stack them where you want them. A little watered down white glue that dries clear holds the whole pile in place. Could be a challenge in 1/700 or smaller but nothing is impossible! Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: CIWS >> Rusty, you should know better than to trust a manufacturer to tell you how good their weapon is. Remember that (in)famous US anti-aircraft tank. I hope you do because I can't remember its name. << Point well taken about the SGT. York. I also understand when viewing any information (especially sales info) you must consider the source. The point I was trying to make was that the CIWS was a quickly developed weapon to give our warships some defense against sea skimming missiles. It was far from perfect, but it was damn sure better than nothing. Anything developed that quickly is going to have bugs until they can be worked out by studying the effectiveness of the operational models. With the CIWS weaknesses known, upgrades to make the weapon system more dependable are now being added to our warships. I think the CIWS will, in the end, be a great success. Only time will tell. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Life Rafts The small type came into service in 1940 and was in widespread use by 1941, especially on the smaller combatants such as the Corvettes. They were small enough to be able to be placed almost anywhere and everwhere, and they were. They were stacked, tied to rails, tied to various bits of equiptments, tied to brackets etc. I think that they were made of blasa wood. The color dulled down of course. As to where they were placed on the Hood, this will be immposible to ascertain because the last close-up views of her were taken in march 1941, before the small rafts were put aboard. Having said this, it is just possible that further photos have come to light, if they have then I would like to know about them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Mark McKellar Subject: What our hobby needs - is a good spokes, er, person >> BTW, while FDR was, in fact, a member of the club (as was then Col. George Patton), there is on record that I'm aware of that the club ever met at the White House << This line got me to wondering - are there any other well-known persons who are ship modelers??? Anyone have a name to throw out? mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Nicolas Protonotarios Subject: On Netherlands Navy in early war Hi, I have always found that a good starter source of info on the Pacific (and Indian) ocean conflict is the Carriers at War series computer game from SSI. They have a full list of ships in each scenario, including commanding officers, squadrons of naval and air force planes, naval bases etc. Apart from capital ships and major combattants, they mention every single destroyer, transport, seaplane tender etc. that took part and even have a scenario for the Aleutians with all the PT boats as well. For the Royal Netherlands Navy, they have some four scenarios including of course the famous sinking of the Repulse and P of W. They also include the cancelled Dutch battlecruisers Prins Maurits and Abel Tasman, which never got to serve, in alternative scenarios Cheers Nic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Pearl Harboru Jap Subs. >> I am specifically looking for detailed plans and photographs to aid in our construction. << The Commander of one of the Jap mini subs that floundered and was washed ashore at Peral Harbour survived. He recently visited his sub which is now an outdoor exhibit of an US NAVY facility in a sunbelt US State. A recent picture with him at the side of this sub was published in a recent issue of TIME or NewsWeek. Probably around the December anniversary of PH. Sorry to be so fuzzy about the exact publication and details. It was one of those times when I flipped through the magazines at the newsstand and did a quick read. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com Subject: Navis Magazine Hi All, I am looking for some opinions as to how good this site is...There is such an info overload out there that I am being much more careful with the time (and money) that I spend reading magazines. Any info from current or former subscribers is welcome. This list pointed me in the right direction with Plastic Ship Modeler. Does Navis compare in quality? Thanks. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: BB CA/CL Floatplanes Big thanks to Fernando and Ross for answering what I guess was an obvious answer about BB & CA/CL firing guns. Which of course means I have an incorrect painting on my web site of the MO firing a nice broadside with aircraft on the cats. Oh well, we learn from our mistakes. Which reminds me fellow SMMLies - if you turn those guns to port or starboard we had better think about where we are going to put the aircraft if the ship is in a diorama. Thanks, Michael Donegan http:members.aol.com/navydaze/INDEX.HTML -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: BWN Yorktown >> I can see where this could be problem with such a large photo-etched part especially if you use ACC cement to bond it to the model. When I build my kit, I will be sure to use some sort of flexible cement or epoxy and bond the flightdeck to .020 styrene before adding it to the hull. This will allow the brass to expand and contract with changes in the humidity so it does not pop loose from the finished model. << John: If i may first picka small nit, humidity is not the problem, I can assure you that brass does not expand or contract with humidity changes, only fiberous materials like wood do that! The problem is thermal expansion where different materials expand at different rates (coeficient of expansion) Bonding the brass to a sheet of plastic won't prevent the problem, and may in fact exaserbate it! When the expansion occurs, it is likely that the brass will expand more than the styrene, resulting in the assembly taking on a decided bow or curvature, probably in both directions. What you would want to do is reinforce just the joints between sections to prevent their separating. Then, you actually need to borrow a page from Norm Abrams - fasten the deck the same way he fastens a table top to the base, Attached in a manner which will allow movement.. Some way should be found to fix the deck firmly only at the center, and to then provide sliding attachments at all other pionts, so the deck can grow and shrink independantly of the hull. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Matthew Prager Subject: Re: IJN TYPE A Submarine There is a Type A submarine on display at a museum in Key West, FL. FYI, WINGS 72 (advertises in FSM) offers an excellnet Type A submarine kit in 1/72 scale. It is a vacuform kit with photos, drawings, and background material. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Mike Dunn" Subject: Brit attack! Someone, who will remain nameless wrote :- >> Q. Why don't the British make computers? A. They couldn't figure out how to make them leak oil. << Bloody cheek! Especially as the computer (in it's various forms from wooden calculation machine through to the silicon) was invented in England! Yup, the dwellers of the sceptred isle are offended. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Gunnery Hi Erik You need to be able to hit the target (Italy and Japan had problems with the longer ranges). The context of the discussion is that of a night engagement where the British advantage in radar would have equalled out any difference in ranges. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Sommerville Hi Art In which case they've been getting it wrong since 1942. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: DD with Catapults I was working on one of the small 1/700 scale DD's and was wondering if I convert it to say the USS HUTCHINSON when she had a catapult on board. Which catapult would I use. Was it a standard size like a CL's or were they custom made for that size ship? Michael Donegan http://members.aol.com/navydaze/INDEX.HTML -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Re: brass expansion/contraction >> When I build my kit, I will be sure to use some sort of flexible cement or epoxy and bond the flightdeck to .020 styrene before adding it to the hull. This will allow the brass to expand and contract with changes in the humidity so it does not pop loose from the finished model. << Although epoxy for gluing down lagre areas of PE parts is a good idea, humidity has nothing to do with dimensional changes in the PE relative to the resin it is glued to. Humidity affects wood, heat is what causes metal to expand. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Ko-Hyoteki Ensign Kazuo Sakamaki's HA-19, the one in the famous beached photographs, now resides in the Museum of the Pacific War in Fredericksburg, Texas. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Melvin Burmaster" Subject: Spring Styles Book Has anyone had any success in obtaining the "Spring Styles Book" alluded to in the recent postings on the USS Montana design? I've tried and had Oz-like silence on posts inquiries to the Navy Historical webpage. Pass along the informationto the rest of us! MJBurmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: Prince of Wales camouflage There was a series in the Conway periodical 'Warship' on the KGVs, of which I think No.11 had the camouflage schemes for PoW as well as others of the class. It is occasionally found on the second hand market here in the UK but I don't know how easy it is to find elsewhere. It does quote the corect Admiralty names so matching to the fine S&S chips is easy. I can probably copy the relevant section if you need it. Robert Lockie Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Dave Judy Subject: Re: What hobby needs Vince, You could not have stated our case better!! I for one, have greatly enjoyed and am proud to be a member of WSMS. This club has some of the most talented model builders I personally have had the pleasure to be associated with! As my job requires me to get up at 3:00 - 4:00am, I try to make as many meetings as I can, just to see what work the other members are doing and most of the time I learn something new! These guys are more than happy to share their knowledge with anyone whether an expert or a beginner, especially the beginners for they are hopefully the ones who will carry the club into the future! As for the term "Secret Handshake Club", that may have been a resultant moniker attributed to the varying location of the meeting each month!! Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "John Rule" Subject: A Slight Diversion From Brad Chaucer: >> I am the very model of a Newsgroup personality. I intersperse obscenity with tedious banality. Addresses I have plenty of, both genuine and ghosted too, On all the countless newsgroups that my drivel is cross-posted to. Your bandwidth I will fritter with my whining and my snivelling, And you're the one who pays the bill, downloading all my drivelling. My enemies are numerous, and no-one would be blaming you For cracking my head open after I've been rudely flaming you. << Brad, I hope to hear you sing this, presumably to the tune of Gilbert and Sullivan's "I am the Very Model of a Modern Major General" at SmellieCon. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Ed Grune Subject: An apology I would like to offer my apologies to Vince McCullough and the Washington Ship Model Society. I did not mean to offend your organization. I am well aware of the long history and fine reputation that your organization has. The anecdote was intended to illustrate the unique social interaction of our hobby - we make diverse friends beacuse of our hobby, we invite them into our homes and discuss subjects of mutual importance. Again, I'd like to apologize for any offense I may have caused. Ed Grune -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: Minicraft Hi all, Al Trendle is a regular contributor to another e-mail group AMD digest. (airliner models) He is very responsive to feed back on Minicraft models. His e-mail is AMTREN@aol.com regards John Sutherland Hi John, Al also contributes to rms as well. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: 2 Man Japanese sub >> My buddy and I are starting the process that we hope will lead to the limited production of a 1/96th scale resin kit of the Japanese two man Type-A submarine. The Ko-Hyoteki subs were those employed during the attack on Pearl Harbor, as well as at other times in the war. I am specifically looking for detailed plans and photographs to aid in our construction. << Not being all that up on Japanese sub types; I have two in my "neighborhood". There is one Japanese submarine on the grounds of the US Naval Submarine Base in Groton, CT. Have some pictures of it from my last time on the base. The US Naval Submarine Force library and Museum (home of the Nautilus SSN-571) also has a Japanese subamrine, distinctly different and somewhat larger than the one on the base. Believe I have pictures of that around someplace, also. Tom Dougherty Hi gang, There are also at least two IJN midget subs in Australia as well. These are from the attack on Sydney Harbour. One is at the AWM ( a composite of two subs IIRC) & another sub section is on HMA Dockyard Garden Is. The AWM also sells a nice book on the Sydney attack called: Hitting Home by David Jenkins (No relation). I picked up my copy a couple of years ago for AUD$5.00 from the museum shop. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "Jason Gillard" Subject: A POST - YE GODS!!! Hi there! In reply to Keith Butterley's message in Vol 807... Being among the younger guard of ship modelers (25 yrs of age!) I feel honour-bound to reply to this post. Unfortunately, like most modeling these days, recruitment is getting thinner and thinner on the ground as competition from other forms of entertainment increases (ie computers, movies etc etc), and ship modeling even less so (I was a convert from sci-fi and 1/48 aircraft ). I pose the following solutions to make ship modeling more attractive...... 1. Current ship modelers convert all their children into fanatical ship modellers to ensure a modeling population will follow them.. 2. Improve recruitment techniques (ie 19th century England....get them drunk, smash em over the back of the head with a blackjack, and when they come to they are chained to a desk with a 1/700 scale ship kit to build before they can be released!). This method may also work with current modellers who talk a lot but build no models (and we ALL know examples of these people..) 3.As for a celebrity spokes-person...well.. Phil Collins MOST DEFINATLY NOT (we want to ATTRACT people, remember!!?) Julia Roberts - maybe, i guess...but if you REALLY want to motivate recruitment to ship models in my age bracket, my suggestion would be either Traci Lords or Pamela Lee...! Anyway...its only a thought!! Jason Gillard (Yet another Australian Ship Modeller!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: SolidStump@aol.com Subject: Re: Bolzano Whitley; Cruisers of WW2 - Bolzano is a one of a kind. Hull is closest to Trento class which are longer and beamier than Zara/Pola/Fiume/Gorizia. Pictures show catapult amidship between the funnels. Bridge and forefunnel similar to Pola. Much wider spacing between funnels. Get the book or get the plans from Taubman Plans service. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: NEW ARRIVALS FROM WEM Hi Guys, Well, it's very busy around here at the moment and we have just had a delivery of Polish books, and some new titles therein, including a restock of a couple that we thought were out of print. Prices in U.K. pounds (multiply by 1.61 for approx $price). First off, Profile Morskie (superb and inexpensive modellers references) No.1 HMS AJAX 6.99, No.4 HMS REPULSE 6.99, No.5 HMS WARSPITE 7.99, No.6 USS CALIFORNIA BB44 6.99, No.7 CHOKAI 6.99, No.8 KARLSRUHE 6.99, No.9 Italian light cruiser RAIMONDO MONTECUCCOLI 7.99, No.10 HMS BELFAST 6.99,No.11 IJN FUSO 6.99 No.12 HMS SCYLLA Dido Class Cruiser 6.99, No.13 TONE Class 6.99, No.14 USS INDIANAPOLIS 6.99 No.15 IJN MAYA 6.99, No.16 TRIBAL Class Destroyers 7.99, No.17 ZARA 6.99, No.18 USS ALABAMA 6.99, No.19 MARSEILLAISE & GEORGES LEYGUES 7.99, No. 20 HMS ABDIEL and HMS ARIADNE cruiser-minelayers 7.99, No. 21 IJN YUBARI 7.99 Also, a restock on Monografie Morskie titles... Polish language, English headings.. All are stuffed full of plans, drawings and high quality photos.. aimed at the modeller and super-detailer No 6 HMS HOOD 9.99 ($16.00), No 7 DKM LUTZOW/DEUTSCHLAND 9.99 ($16.00), No 8 ADMIRAL GRAF SPEE, ADMIRAL SCHEER 9.99($16.00), No 9 DEUTSCHLAND, SPEE, SCHEER 9.99 ($16.00), No 10 U-BOOTWAFFE Part One 9.99 ($16.00), No 11 U-BOOTWAFFE Part Two 9.99 ($16.00), No 12 U-BOOTWAFFE Part Three 9.99($16.00), No 13 U-BOOTWAFFE 1939-1945 Part Four 9.99 ($16.00), No 14 NELSON-RODNEY CLASS BATTLESHIPS 9.99 ($16.00) RESIN KITS: JUST ARRIVED: WSW 1/700 from Germany SVENT ISTVAN 1916 42.51 ($68.44) VIRIBUS UNITIS 1914 42.51 ($68.44) S.M.S. SAIDA 1917 27.19 ($43.77) S.M.S. BADEN 51.02 ($82.14) S.M.S. BAYERN 51.02 ($82.14) USS BORIE 18.68 ($30.08) USS WARD 18.68 ($30.08) USS CALLAWAY APA 35 Attack Transport 1943 38.25 ($61.25) USS QUINCY WW2 cruiser 46.77 ($75.30) SMS LUTZOW WWI battlecruiser 51.02 ($82.14) SMS DERFFLINGER 51.02 ($82.14) USS MARKAB AD 21 1942 Destroyer Tender 38.25 ($61.60)PETROPAVLOVSK 1914 Dreadnought Russian battleship 51.02 ($82.14) DKM KARLSRUHE 1939/40 46.77 ($75.30) DKM F-TYPE ESCORT 18.68 ($30.08) BREMSE WWI gunnery training ship 22.94 ($36.92) GEORGES LEYGUES 1945 44.21 ($71.18), LE TERRIBLE 1945 French Destroyer 24.64 ($39.67) US Dollar prices are approxinmate Overseas shipping Charged At Cost.. please place orders direct with me, at the above E-Mail if you like. Thanks! Caroline Carter http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models White Ensign Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume