Subject: SMML VOL 815 Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:29:11 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Navis 2: Fw: battleship bismarck 3: USS Langley (CV-1)/USS Jupiter (Collier #3) at US Naval Historical Center. 4: Re: Navis magazine problems 5: UBoat Movie 6: Graf Spee colors 7: Hood Wreck 8: Re: Hollywood Accuracy and What May Result 9: new members 10: HMS Furious 11: Accuracy in Movies 12: N scale ships 13: Re: Camouflage of destroyers in late 1941 Early 1942 14: Commanders/Iron Shipwrights 1/350 Corvette PG 71 Tenacity 15: Kobo Hiryu 16: Bolzano thanks 17: Re: Navis vs FSM 18: Re: Enterprise CV-6 in 1942 19: Thanks Space Cruiser Yamato Fans 20: USS Cimmaron AO-177 - converting Jim Shirley kit 21: Re: OT: Space Cruiser Yamato 22: Personnal Problem 23: Linoleum on "Fubuki"? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: KM Book for Sale 2: WEM WEBSITE UPDATE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: BECJPARKER@aol.com Subject: Re: Navis In defense of Navis and Paolo To all of you that read this list and haven't figured it out by now. Here is how it works. Many of the people on this list are in the hobby business, or are involved with others in the business at some level. They have a stake in what is written on this list. They say nice things about their friends and nasty things about their competition. There is a lot of in fighting going on and it gets bloody sometimes. Paolo and Navis as a publication and a reviewer of products offends a lot of people, by trying to write what you want, honest reviews and comments. In short SMML is a team sport and the objective is to win, you need to know who is on who's team and who's fan they are. If you can't figure it out, I'm a Paolo and Navis Fan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "JODY KELM" Subject: Fw: battleship bismarck >> From: Heinz Schöck Subject: Re: battleship bismarck Hello Jody, thanks for your request. Will check for further information Heinz << >>Von: JODY KELM Betreff: battleship bismarck Sir, A good friend of mine who is, I believe, a life time member of the Royal Marines suggested that I write to you.I am writing to you in regards to a problem I am having with a model that I am building. It is 77 inches long, 11 1/4 inches wide at the beam, model of the battleship Bismarck. The problem that I am having is I can't seem to find any data on the size of the actual keel blocks or any other technical information, such as the technical drawings (plans/blue prints) the size of the cranes, color chips that they used to paint the battleship Bismarck. I have even tried my local library, national interlibrary loan,the library of congress, the naval institute press, Dr. Robert Ballard,the founder of the Bismarck, even Blomh and Voss ship yard in Hamburg, Germany, where they actually built the ship to name a few, but still I can't seem to get anywhere with the people I talk to. Can you help me with this dilemma? Or do you know of any other avenues I could go down? I have been doing research on the Bismarck for approximately 4 years. I think at this time any information would be of great help! Thank you for your time and patience with this. Sincerely, Chris Kelm << -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: USS Langley (CV-1)/USS Jupiter (Collier #3) at US Naval Historical Center. Good morning: The US Naval Historical Center has posted a series of photos of the Langley, both as the carrier and as the seaplane tender. They also have some photos of her in the "as launched" configuration USS Jupiter - a collier. Check the URL below. http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/whatsnew.htm Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: Navis magazine problems I subscribed to Navis for about a year, but decided not to resubscribe this past fall for several reasons- the lack of ship-related articles, the repeated delays in posting new issues, re-hashed material, and especially, the way people seemed to be treated by the owners of the site. Sure, it only costs $12. But after watching from the sidelines a couple of really nasty confrontations between subscribers and the publisher, I decided that I did not want to give any of my money to these people. In every occassion someone spoke up about being ever so slightly displeased with Navis, the publisher would lose his head and start spewing out nonsense about slander, conspiracies and impending lawsuits he would file. No matter how much I enjoyed some of those articles, I don't want to support someone who (in my mind) lacks common decency and maturity. There are plenty of other places on the Web where one can find kit reviews, historical articles, modeling tips, and photos of beautifully built models. And these sites also happen to be free and run by friendly and considerate people. Being civil goes a long way in my book. I normally don't like to make negative comments about other people and/or their work and never had any personal problems with Navis myself, but feel people should understand what's behind the site when they subscribe. To some it may not matter. To others, it will. Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Felix Bustelo" Subject: UBoat Movie Ok, Ok. It may be totally wrong and Hollywood will be Americanizing the exploits of the Royal Navy, but in the very least this film will hopefully attract some of the younger folks out there to the subject of World War II and ships and ship modeling. Those who will inspired to look further will read books or search the Net for more and hopefully more accurate information. The downside is that those who won't go further will have a misinformed view of events. Bottom line - If the movie spurns interest, then it will be a good thing. Private Ryan, if anything, as generated a tremendous amount of respect for the soldiers that fought there and in other battles in WW2 and other wars. Besides, with Jon Bon Jovi in the move, it will guarantee that my wife and I will go see it in the theater and both will be happy - I will see a film about naval subjects in WW2 and she will be able to see Mr. Bon Jovi in full color. My two pennies, Felix Bustelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Francisco Javier Chaves Salarrullana" Subject: Graf Spee colors Nobody knows about the camouflage scheme Graf Spee wore in 1939? Yesterday, watching a well known film, I was even thinking pink... could be a good solution to my situation. I think there were at least three colors, but which colors? And what about the decks? Thanks in advance. Francisco Javier Chaves Zaragoza (Spain). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Felix Bustelo" Subject: Hood Wreck Hello all, My friend loaned my a copy of the film "Sink the Bismarck", which I watched over the weekend. While melodramatic, it was an enoyable film and rather accurate in the actual events. I pulled out my copy of the Ballard book on his Bismarck wreck search and dive to lend to my friend when I returned the film and while looking at it I wondered if any attempt was made to dive on the Hood's wreck? Anybody know if this was ever done? Just curious. Regards, Felix Bustelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Re: Hollywood Accuracy and What May Result It is rumored that, to film the Carrier scenes, Disney has contemplated purchasing (or at least renting) USS Cabot, the last CVL (which currently faces scrapping for want of a buyer). Even renting her would give the group that wants her $$$ to complete the transaction. As I have said elsewhere, the movie can show Yamamoto buggering FDR for all I care IF it somehow allows Cabot to be saved. Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Puckhead93@aol.com Subject: new members sorry to break it to ya keith......at 38 your not the youngest. I myself am just newly turned 20. Ive been buliding models since I was like 10. Unfortunately there isnt much growth here and not many young people to carry it on. Most of the interest here is in stock cars. So what I know about modeling I learned from my own expirence. It would be nice though to be able to pick up tips first hand from anyone in the Iowa area! Regards Josh Mayne -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Bob_Chenoweth@nps.gov (Bob Chenoweth) Subject: HMS Furious Dear SMMLs, I've been an irregular reader of your newsletter for several years because Burl Burlingame sends them to me and I read and copy stuff. I visit with Carolynn at White Ensign and buy airplanes and little ship bits from her. I've been a 1/700 ship modeller for many years and am mostly interested in British ships, Carriers and escort ships, and Japanese ships, anything with camouflage on it. I used to be the Curator of the USS Arizona Memorial in Hawaii and took care of the big ship there for a while, but it's broken AND underwater! I have a question that I hope someone can help me answer. I have this old Profile on HMS Furious that has a color center fold of her in an elaborate disruptive pattern of greys and blues, including the flight deck. A picture of Furious in this scheme is on the front cover of the booklet. It has Hurricanes on deck. Which makes me think it is earlier rather than later. Under the big profile are a couple of little ones, one showing Furious in a light grey, blue and GREEN scheme. It says this was an early scheme, 39-40 I think. In another section of the book are photos of the ship in this same scheme, but the captions say it is a later scheme 41-42. I'm confused about what paint Furious had and when? I would be grateful for an explaination of all this. I'd also like to know if anyone knows what the deck looks like for the GREEN scheme. Sincerely yours, Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Accuracy in Movies Tom Eisenhour wrote - >> If you like that one you'll love other new proposed films: How the US Army won the Battle of the Somme in 1916, and don't forget the valiant struggle of the US Army Air Force against the Luftwaffe during the Battle of Britain! (We give the Brits a supporting role in that one.) << That's more than they got in "Objective, Burma!" (1945), where the Tasmanian-born Errol Flynn led a handful of American paratroopers to drive the Japanese out of Burma. Considered to be one of the more infamous examples of Hollywood's rewriting of history. Granted, it was wartime propaganda and the makers of the new "U-571" have no such excuse other than making a buck. MWL Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: N scale ships Mike, Thank you for your response. I found a good source, Naval Base Hobbies, L.I., N.Y. They have a N scale resin LST [which I ordered] as well as several container ships up to 33" inches long. They also carry HO scale ships - both commercial and military. Two other suppliers are Coastal Forces, Bangor, Maine and Slyvan Models, Canada. Commander Models plans to release a PC and Minesweeper [WW II] in the Summer. Thanks for your help. JK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Growlrr@aol.com Subject: Re: Camouflage of destroyers in late 1941 Early 1942 >> Vherley shortlee eye shal bee arseking Glenn Arnold too beegin laying owt and edditing volyome one of the kamoflarg book. This shood not take 2 long. << ANY YOU GUYS THINK THIS JOB IS EASY??? Imagine that with a British accent to boot!!! Hi Glenn, Could be worse - could be a Kiwi or Aussie accent ;-þ Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Mike Taylor" Subject: Commanders/Iron Shipwrights 1/350 Corvette PG 71 Tenacity Looking for camo scheme for PG 71 Tenacity-measure and color if anyone knows. Check warship site for Jag Collective Asheville's and Skywave Ticonderoga Aegis cruiser soon! Mike T -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "BROSCOEII" Subject: Kobo Hiryu Hello, Does anyone know where I can find "Kobo Hiryu" 1/700 scale model ship kits? Thanks in advance, Jim Gaines -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Cataldo Torelli Subject: Bolzano thanks Thanks everybody who helped me with the Bolzano topic. It seems that the best option to build a 1/700 Bolzano is to scratchbuilt and maybe use some Regia Marina a/c and PE sets. Thanks, Cataldo. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Timothy Dike Subject: Re: Navis vs FSM >> I know it may be a difficult question, but if given an option of Navis vs. Fine Scale Modeler, which would you choose? << Personally I don't know why it has to come down to "this VS that". If your finances are very limited and you can only choose one, then it's a valid question. But my finances are not limited so I'll choose all of the above. It's almost like we have to choose this site or that one, this magazine or that one, and that is just plain silly. This is a subject that seems to bring out the worst in people, especially over on RMS (rec.models.scale), even FSM has taken some heat over there. One thing is sure, you can't please all of the people all of the time. If you don't like the format then try to contribute something you do like. The lack of Ship article in Fine Scale Modeler is due to the lack of Ship Modelers contributing, I think this explains the current swing towards aircraft modeling over on Navis. A letter to the editor might help turn that around. Ship Modeling seems to be in the minority so we need to work together to bring it back to the forefront. mailto:Cadman@kc.net http://www.kc.net/~cadman/ "A still sea never wrought a skillful sailor" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "William Oreto" Subject: Re: Enterprise CV-6 in 1942 Be careful about your time period and 20mm guns on the Enterprise in 1942. She carried 50s only for a few months into the new war. I read in Steve Ewing's book U.S.S. Enterprise that she replaced most of all of her 50s with 20mm March /April 42. The book has some great pictures which helped me put together her 20mm configuration for the Battle of Santa Cruz. Sorry I can help with the 480 scale model, but Tamiya makes a very good Enterprise and Hornet kit in 1/700 scale. Bashing the Hornet kit for parts, and making some changes to the Enterprise kit (bridge, masts and gun layout) you can make a very accurate CV-6 of 1942. Fujimi makes an aircraft set of SBDs, F4F and TBFs. Probably White Ensign Models makes a 1/700 scale TBD. Hope this helps. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Ralph & Karen Batykefer" Subject: Thanks Space Cruiser Yamato Fans I'm impressed yet again with SMMLies. Thanks for all the information on Star Blazers. Derek, you amaze me with all you've been working on... Do you do anything other than build models? Anyways, I'll try and get a 1/400 scale from Bandai. Thanks again, Ralph -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Joseph Poutre Subject: USS Cimmaron AO-177 - converting Jim Shirley kit Hi all, I am considering converting the Jim Shirley model of the USS Cimmarron to the "stretch" model by cutting it in twain and adding a plug, like the Navy did. (It may even end up in Brasilian markings. Does anyone make a Niteroi model in 1/700?) I need to know where to cut, and how long a plug to add. I obviously need a source of plans for at least the post-op version, preferably one with details of the enhancement. Can anyone help me? Joseph Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: OT: Space Cruiser Yamato The 1:200 (wood) kit is a recent (limited) release item from Imai if IIRC. They've also released a limited edition 1:350 Resin kit of the Andromeda with a hefty $550 price tag. The wooden Yamato runs about the same according to some I've spoken to. I believe both are available from HLJ. There's also white-metal minitures now available from Musashi Enterprises for use with their Star Blazers Fleet Battle System (hardly worth mentioning, but what the hey). Better drop this thread before Shane decides to pop me one. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Personnal Problem Hi all; I would like to thank everyone who sent me messages of sympathy and encouragement over the last 2 days. I have been really down since her accident Saturday, and knowing that I had friends who cared helped me cope. The doctor said that her shattered elbow and arm will heal, but he offers little encouragement about her ability to bend the joint. Only time, and prayers, will tell. For those who missed the origional message, my angel had an accident Saturday morning. She sleep walks and fell down. She shattered her right elbow joint and the bone just above it. They did emergency surgery to pin things back together. Fortunately? this is her weak arm from her stroke. This is her 3rd major accident, while sleep walking, in the past 2 years. I usually stay up and keep track of her till 4:00AM, then sleep. We sleep with our arms tied together, all 3 times she had managed to un-tie herself. I guess I will have to get hand-cuffs. Thanks again. Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister Amateur Naval Historian, Wargamer, and Modeller -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "VIDEOPAL S.L." Subject: Linoleum on "Fubuki"? Hello I'm building the Tamiya's IJN DD "Fubuki". She has the original layout, late 20's or early 30's. There was linoleum on her decks ?. Thanks Francisco Ronco Cádiz, España -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Re: KM Book for Sale Somehow the hyperlink to the book I wrote about yesterday did not get sent along with my mail. Please click and paste http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=255364495 to check out a really neat book with over 400 pics of Kriegsmarine vessels, many close up detail shots! D -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: WEM WEBSITE UPDATE Hi Guys, Have just completed an update of the main price lists for plastics, resins, photoetched brass (inc. Toms, Modelkrak, Delphis, WSW, and GMM) with review links.. have also added/updated the entire Classic Warships line.. hopefully, the new layout will improve navigation! Next job.. re-structuring naval books and videos! Please check it out http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/plist1.htm Also updated Gold Medal Models with scans of the brass added to the updated pages: http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/gmm/brass.htm Thanks! Caroline Carter White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume