Subject: SMML VOL 818 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 01:15:44 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Iron Shipwright PT and PC 2: Re: Is SMML's objective to WIN? 3: Re: Fictional Hiding Near HOOD 4: New Ship Modeler 5: Re: parcels accross the Atlantik 6: Funnel grills 7: HMS King George V 8: Re: BISMARCK, SCHARNHORST, KING GEORGE V reference titles? 9: USN WW2 CV hangar Deck Colors 10: Re: Is SMML's objective to WIN? 11: Replacement PE parts 12: PE set for USS Helena 13: Elco PTs and PC "Boats" 14: Re: H.M.S. Hood wreck -- novel 15: Y2K & Internet problems 16: Re: U-boat movie and Enigma 17: Modern USN colors 18: Star of the Small Screen 19: Royal Navy WWII Mediterranean Fleet Grey colur 20: Missouri photos 21: PG-71 Tenacity 22: Tenacity 23: Photographing Ships 24: HMS Hood 25: Russian Battleships 26: Lost Funnel Grill 27: Decals for IJN destroyer Shiranui 28: U.S.S. Hornet (CV-8) 29: Wiswesser Plans-Beware! 30: PT & PC 31: Tenacity Camo 32: 1/700 DD funnel grilles 33: ISW PC and 80'ELCO 34: Re: Photetch Replacement 35: USS Missouri 36: Fabrication & USS Princeton 37: Correction: Furious Camouflage Schemes 38: Re: Charlie Parker & Navis 39: 1/540 Nimitz Kits -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: APMA meeting & website upgrade 2: Hello from NY 3: USS Hornet conversion 4: John Collins -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: Iron Shipwright PT and PC I have not seen either of these kits "in person" and can only base my comments on the photos of the basic castings shown on their website (www.commanderseries.com) compared to drawings and photos of the actual vessels. The hull of the PT is not accurate in either profile or plan. In profile, the sheer and chine do not curve correctly and the stem has a shape more consistent with a kit twice its scale. The chine takes an unfair curve, one which also suggests that the cross sections are incorrect, as well. In plan view, the shape of the bow from about the front of the charthouse forward is incorrect. The roll-off racks for the torpedoes are shown in different locations port and starboard, which is incorrect. The PC kit seems to have more accurately captured the proportions and shapes of the full-size ship, although the shadows on the photos of the hull suggest that it is too shallow aft. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: BECJPARKER@aol.com Subject: Re: Is SMML's objective to WIN? LAST POST ON SUBJECT. As our webmaster has so aptly pointed out this is taking a lot of bandwidth. So I'll keep my comments short. Yes, SMML is run for fun and the ship modeling enthusiast. It is an open site run by a number of people that are doing their very best to give us a forum to discuss and speak out about the ship modeling hobby. Much like that soap box in Hyde Park Corner. I am very grateful for their work and the effort it takes to run this site and give all of us the opportunity to have our say. What I wanted to accomplish and think I did by my post was to point out that there is a lot of competition going on in the hobby business. Some of that competition is spilling over onto SMML, that's fine, but that should be keep in mind when you read a slam of a publisher, product or manufacturer. Navis has been the subject used in this discussion but it could be any of the other businesses in the hobby, as I have seen them all take some hard shots. Basically take what you read with a grain of salt and understand the competition that is going on. Happy Modeling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: Fictional Hiding Near HOOD >> 2. In the 1960s/70s, Soviet and American navies used Hood (at a depth of over 7,000 ft) as a magnetic anomoly mask for submarines. Not true at all. It all comes from some FICTION book (can't recall the title). We've heard his particular one several times... << This was "The BEDFORD Incident", by Mark Rascovich. In 1963, it was believable that anything could happen in the Cold War against the Evil Empire and her fleet of Invincible Atomic U-Boats! "...if he fires a torpedo at me, then I'll fire one." "Fire One Aye, Sir!" Now THAT was stirring fiction! Rick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Kyle" Subject: New Ship Modeler Good morning to everyone, I have recently gotten back into modeling after a few years off (6 years USMC and 4 years university). I used to build the 1/700 waterline kits and aircraft and tanks. I am more interested now in ship modeling after reading Mike Ashley's book and seeing Rusty White's Bismarck diorama in FSM's World War II Special Edition. I would really like to start a collection of 1/350 resin battleships. My question is, should I try a plastic kit (i.e. Tamiya's Prince of Wales, which I recently purchased) first using a PE set to get experience before I try a resin kit? Secondly, what is a good resin kit for beginners, and should I start off with a cruiser or destroyer before I try a battleship? I have been subscribing to SMML for about a month now and would really appreciate your opinions. Additionally, while in the USMC I served on two floats, one on LSD-45 USS Comstock and one on LHA-5 USS Peliliu and I also have some experiences with LPHs and LPDs. So if anyone needs pictures or info, feel free to ask. Thank you in advance. Kyle Delisle Freezing in Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Ernst-Bernhard Kayser Subject: Re: parcels accross the Atlantik Hi there, this posting is on one aspect of the "customer service" or "Don't buy overseas" thread. I am living in the U.S. but my family is in Germany. To keep in touch we are sending stuff to and fro. My experience with the mail system is the following: Letters sent by airmail reach their destination within maximally 6 days. Not a single one has ever been reported lost. This is in stark contrast to parcels sent by standard/surface mail. Parcels can take from 1 week to 3 month. Some never make it and disappear altogether. For instance, at the beginning of last November my mother sent 2 parcels within a week. One was an unwieldy large packet, the other contained a small book only. Miraculously the big one arrived within 10 days, the small one however took until mid February. While the Christmas season can be considered a risk factor it does not explain a different case where a shipment of cookbooks evaporated during the off-season. My point is, surface mail accross the Atlantik is not reliable! Hence, as a customer do not assume your overseas supplier is a tardy slob. As a supplier do not assume your customer must have received the stuff you shipped weeks ago. The recommendation "Don't buy overseas" is not a solution. Rather, when you do business overseas be aware of the risk inherent to surface mail. And consider forking out the extra bucks for a more reliable shipment option. You can save yourself and your supplier major headaches. Bernhard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Funnel grills Hi Mark I use 5 amp fuse wire myself. It's easily bent and straightened (just roll it with a flat file) and looks right. I pre-cut and shape all lengths (the beauty is you can easily cut and make another length if one gets lost). I attach the longitudinal piece first followed by the transverse braces using the runny superglue. When it's dried it gets painted. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: HMS King George V Hi Zeljko I can't comment on the Bismark and Scharnhorst but an excellent reference for King George V is Raven and Roberts 'British Battleships of World War Two'. It contains very good plans showing AA positions for the whole war and several excellent photos. If you can get this its well worth it (it also has the development and history of all British capital ships as an added bonus). There is also V E Tarrant's King George V class battleships. However, this is poorly written and the photographic reproduction is quite indifferent. For photos you can try the IWM photo archives. Their KGV collection is very good with several superb shots. I can supply you with a complete list of the reference numbers of all KGV photos held at the museum. They do take orders and it is best to know exactly what you want before placing your order. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Mike Dunn Subject: Re: BISMARCK, SCHARNHORST, KING GEORGE V reference titles? Zeljko wrote : >> I hope somebody could give me a piece of advice. I am looking for the best reference titles regarding Bismarck, Scharnhorst and King George class battleships? As many good photo and drawings as possible, as well as good story. Several options for each of listed ships would be highly appreciated. << Well, I can't comment on the Scharnhorst or KGV, but I managed to find Ballard's Bismark book 2nd-hand at a steal of a price. While I haven't done more than scan through it, it does seem to be a good book as long as you bear in mind that a lot of the "photos" seem to be artist's impressions. Despite saying that, it's worth what I paid for it - whether I would have gone the full price is another matter..... Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "John Snyder" Subject: USN WW2 CV hangar Deck Colors There have been a few queries lately regarding the colors used on hangar decks of US carriers in WW2. Here's what the official documents have to say (and thanks to John Sheridan for finding this). From General Specifications, Appendix 6, Instructions For Painting And Cementing Vessels of the United States Navy, BuShips, June 1943: The vertical sides and overhead of hangars were to be painted with one coat of "Inside White Formula 27" [this was a flat white], and the deck was to be painted with one coat of "Gray Deck Formula 20-L" [not included in any of our paint chip sets, this document describes this as "light gray paint for interior steel decks"]. Incidentally, this document also describes the light gray used for flight deck markings on blue-stained flight decks. The document describes Flight Deck Stain 21 (included in our USN Set 1) as "Blue-gray stain for wood flight deck on aircraft carriers (CV's and AVG's)"; it then goes on to describe Formula 22 for flight deck marking as "Light blue-gray (contrast with F-21) for marking flight decks." It would thus appear that F-22 was either a stain prepared by lightening Flight Deck Stain 21 with white, or a paint prepared by lightening Deck Blue 20-B with white. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Charles Stephanian Subject: Re: Is SMML's objective to WIN? My last post on this (I promise!).... BECJPARKER@aol.com wrote: >> I have to keep this going. To Charles and Norm : There are three basic types of people on this list:.... << Thanks for reducing everyone on this list to "three basic types" and to your nifty sports analogy. I'm glad after your " almost ten years" in the hobby business you've figured it all out. The inanity of your remarks speak for themselves...but as to your suggestion that we "get a program", I suppose you've written and had them printed...why don't you tell us all where to send the check? Just a 'fan' of ship modeling, Charles T. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Loren Perry Subject: Replacement PE parts To Mark Doremus and others in his situation - if you lose a GMM part while building your model, you don't have to buy a whole new set to get a replacement. Just send me a self-addressed stamped envelope and a clear description of the part(s) you lost and we'll send you a free replacement at once. All part of the service. I lose parts too, so I know how you feel. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Cataldo Torelli Subject: PE set for USS Helena Hello, I've ordered the 1/700 CW USS Helena and I'm wondering about the most appropiate PE set to detail her. Maybe the Omaha class cruiser Tommodelworks PE set ? Any advice is welcome. Best wishes, Cataldo Torelli. Madrid, Spain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: WVeigele@aol.com Subject: Elco PTs and PC "Boats" Bruce, Since 15 September 1941 when PC 471 (PC 461 class) slid off the ways at the Defoe Boat and Motor Works in Bay City, Michigan only a few persons have made models of the PC Patrol Craft. Probably the first model was carved from a single block of pine by a young officer while aboard a PC during the war. Since then a few former PC sailors constructed models of these ships. Some were on view at the Patrol Craft Sailors Association exhibit in the Bay County Historical Museum in Bay City, Michigan during two PCSA reunions. Iron Shipwright sells a resin, 1/350 scale (approximately 6 inch hull length), kit of PC 461 class of PC. They mail it in a sturdy box with drawings and instructions. Parts include a preformed hull with superstructure and small elements such as the mousetraps and K-guns. Topside components include life rafts, 20mm guns, and deck gear. Brass rails, mast, and other brass fittings are included. The instructions are not too detailed and a magnifier may be needed, but former PC sailors should remember where the parts go and what color to paint them. Modelers, not familiar with PC dimensions and configuration, will find the book titled PC Patrol Craft of World War II - A History of the Ships and Their Crews invaluable. It contains 150 photographs, 30 engineering drawings, and a 13"x20" foldout of cutaway elevation and plan views of PC 461 and other PCs. The kit, a compact; detailed; and accurate portrayal of PC 461 class, is available from: Commander Series Models, Inc. 551 Wegman Road Rochester, NY 14624 or call toll free 1-888-476-6744 or 1-888-470-6744. The cost is $25. For other data on this PC 461 kit and information on and a review of the book see the Warship website and www.astralpublishing.com. P. S.: PCs were not boats. They were ships. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Mark Shannon Subject: Re: H.M.S. Hood wreck -- novel >> 2. In the 1960s/70s, Soviet and American navies used Hood (at a depth of over 7,000 ft) as a magnetic anomoly mask for submarines. Not true at all. It all comes from some FICTION book (can't recall the title). We've heard this particular one several times... << >> I'm pretty sure that book is entitled "Red Storm Rising" by Tom Clancy. A truly excellent must-read too. << While "Red Storm Rising" is a lot of fun and a great story, I think the reference to the Hood wreck is from sixties cold war potboiler "The Bedford Incident." While the submarine being "held-down" in and around the Denmark Strait icefields does not use the Hood wreckage, the wreck plays into the story as one of the other objects on the scopes, and uses the device of having a Royal Navy liason officer who was supposed to be the son of an officer lost with Hood. It is more interesting as a psycho-drama of the stress of Cold War near-combat than a sea story, in my opinion. Mark Shannon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Loren Perry Subject: Y2K & Internet problems To all SMML subscribers - Shaya Novak's message indicating a possible Y2K or other internet problem with his site is an important reminder to those of us who think that internet business and emailing one another is utterly reliable. It is not. I've had many instances of emails not making it back to the original writer even though I replied to his supplied address. So please be advised that if you e-mail a company over and over and receive nothing in return, there is a very good chance that your message didn't make it through. In that case, try the good old post office. They work very well. I still ship the vast bulk of GMM products via the post office all around the world and the instances of failure are infinitely less than the failures and malfuntions I've experienced using the net. We have to face it - the internet in real life is nowhere near as reliable as the movies would have us believe. It breaks a lot, and especially so now that hackers have wrecked CNN, E-bay and numerous other large websites in the past few days. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Mark Shannon Subject: Re: U-boat movie and Enigma While the captures of U-boats and enigma devices from U-570, U-110, and U-559 by the Royal Navy have been mentioned, just to put the American Cousin's case on line, the incidents described in the movie also seem to derive some from the capture of U-505. While Captain Gallery gets most of the write-up in the histories, the actual boarding parties got his praise. Lt. David, leading the boarding party, had to rush on board a sinking U-boat, not knowing what booby traps had been set or how many fanatic crewmembers were still aboard, and find the code books and instruments quickly, while trying to figure out how to prevent said U-boat from fulfilling its destiny and filling full. He was awarded the Navy Cross for this, though Gallery wanted him to get the Medal of Honor. (Remember, in those days it was considered as common knowledge that all U-boats were manned by the most fanatic of Hitler's legions who were willing to go down fighting in all circumstances.) This was relatively late in the war, July 1944, if I recall correctly, and so had less of an impact on the codebreaking and such, but this should not in any way diminish the courage and role played by those who undertook to capture a submarine on the high seas. Mark Shannon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Kenneth Perry Subject: Modern USN colors Hello, I'm wondering if paints are available in spray cans for modern USN ships for hull and decks. I will be building a fairly large ship soon(8') and airbrushing would probably take forever. Thanks. Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: Star of the Small Screen Hi All UK SMMLies, Did you see our regular star of the small screen on Tomorrow's World this week? None other than our own Dimi Apostopaulos at Carnegie Melon Uni talking about the Nomad robot (he builds these as well as models!). Well done Dimi! Everyone here loved it! Regards, Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo, tena he tao kupa kaore e taea te karo......(Te Reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Miguel Costa" Subject: Royal Navy WWII Mediterranean Fleet Grey colur Hello: Does anybody knows the reference color for Gunze Sangio, Tamiya, or Aeromaster or any other paint maker, for the light grey hull colour of the ships of the Royal Navy in the Mediterranean Fleet at the starting of WWII?, i need them because is the same colour that the Spanish ships of this years. Thanks Miguel Costa Mallorca Balearic Islands "One place four islands" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Norman C. Samish" Subject: Missouri photos Try http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-m/bb63.htm There are a lot of gorgeous color photos of the Missouri from 1941 through 1992. Norm Samish -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Clifford Franklin Subject: PG-71 Tenacity There are a series of photos of Tenacity on the Warship Website, under the Photo Archives for 18 November, 1999. They are very clear shots of her wearing a modified measure 12 scheme in June 1942, although unfortunately only the port side is visible. Some of the photos are detailed close-ups of her under refit. cheers Cliff Franklin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Sven E Dorsey" Subject: Tenacity Check the Warship site I sent some good Photos of PG71 and others and they are posted there I believe. Sven -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Arjun Sarup" Subject: Photographing Ships Hi, Here's an unpleasant experience I had in photographing a ship I thought I'd share with you. I was in India on the annual vacation, in Calcutta to be more specific, when the guided-missile corvette INS Khukri made an appearance for Navy Day in Dec. 1999. She was moored on the River Hoogly, and open to visitors, so off I went duly equipped with camera to visit / photograph her. The part of the riverfront where she was moored in known as the Man-o-War Jetty, and this is poorly demarcated, there being a low wall and gate across the walk that runs parallel to the river. You wouldn't even know that this is some kind of restricted area, as there are no signs to indicate that it is navy property, or that photography is restricted. So, when I got there, I happened to be within this enclosure when I pulled my camera out of its bag to take a photograph, and hey presto, a couple of ratings stopped me and told me that I would have to get permission from the ship to take a photograph. I then proceeded towards the ship, which for some obscure reason I was not allowed to reach, when two miserable specimens of officers insisted that I leave the area, as I was trying to photograph a warship (no kidding, I could have mistaken it for a rowboat) and that I couldn't take pictures from that part of the waterfront. Apart from that, I was supposedly a Pakistani spy, etc., etc. Net result: I got handed over to the Calcutta Police and escorted to the nearest police station (fortunately in my own chauffeur-driven car). More fortunately, I managed to make a phone call from a nearby restaurant to my rather influential Mom, and so the story had a happy ending, with my being detained for about half-an-hour whilst the police made an entry in their books, then let me go. I think this whole incident was grossly mishandled by the officers concerned for several reasons; a). Many (but not all) officers have a hangover of the Official Secrets Act, and so everything, even 50 year old museum pieces are considered 'secret' in India. b). The river and riverfront do not belong to the Indian Navy. If the ship is there on public view, then I consider it fair game to photograph. c). There were no signs to indicate this was a restricted area, or that photographs could not be taken. d). Numerous photographs must already exist of that corvette. One can't hide an object the size of a ship from public view, so to me it seems somewhat pointless trying to restrict the taking of photographs. Anyway, I went right back the next morning to take photographs a few metres beyond their "restricted area", and if I can help it, I'll photograph all Indian Navy ships henceforth with a vengeance. Don't know if anyone else has had such experiences, where photographing ships are concerned... Best wishes, Arjun Sarup Mauritius -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "John Rosie" Subject: HMS Hood A point of interest. My late father was torpeded in the North Atlantic whilst serving on the AMC HMS Salopian (Bibby cargo liner Shropshire). After rescue he travelled back to the Uk on a ship which also carried the survivors from the Hood. He told me that they were so traumatised by their experience that they would not go below decks during the trip to Blighty. He had a number of conversations with them and they were convinced that the Bismarck had not hit them. Their opinion was that the catastrophic explosion was due to flashback into the ammunition stores. I must say however that historians including Ludovic Kennedy have disputed that opinion. John Rosie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Russian Battleships The new issue of Warship International has a full-page discussion of color schemes for Imperial Russian Battleships, 1900-1905. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "John Rule" Subject: Lost Funnel Grill Mark Doremus reported sproinging a PE funnel grill into some other dimension and was looking for a way to make a replacement part. I made a mast this way last night. Roll out some plastacine or equivalent on the workbench, then lightly embed the thin wire you are using (pre-tinned) in the pattern of the grill. When satisfied with the layout, solder the wires together. Best of luck. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Robert & Rose Brown Subject: Decals for IJN destroyer Shiranui Hi there: Does anybody out there have the hull name decals for the WWII Japanese destroyer Shiranui which come with the 1/700 Skywave Kagero, that they would be willing to part with for cash and/or a glowing testimonial? Thanks....Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Charlie Jarvis Subject: U.S.S. Hornet (CV-8) I'm in the process of putting together Enterprise as she was at Midway, so maybe we're kindred spirits. To answer your questions: 1. Out of your mind? Node. Of course, consider the source of the appraisal since I'm doing something similar. 2. B-25s: Can't help there. 3. Resin upgrades. Nautilus models has an upgrade with the bridge, 1.1" AA's and 5" 38 cal guns. They are coming out later this year (or sooner, I hope) with TBDs, SBDs and F4Fs, and a full hanger deck (I can hardly wait for that one). Have fun. Regards: Charlie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Wiswesser Plans-Beware! A very large WARNING to anyone using any of the Wiswesser Plans....... They are all VERY FLAWED. I strongly recommend NOT using them. Steve Wiper Classic Warships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: PT & PC >> Since I'm at present finishing the Jag Collective Higgins 78 ft PT, I was just wondering if anyone on the list has built the Iron Shipwright Elco PT or the PC Craft. << Bruce - I'm building the Iron Shipwright PC. A neat little model with just a few air bubbles. Nice photoetch. I bought the expensive new book by Mr. Viegle (sp?) for a reference since I saw so little material elsewhere. These little ships must have been disposed of in a hurry as soon as WW2 ended. They have a bell from one of them on display in the Armed Forces Reserve Center, Anacostia (Washington, DC). I also have the JAG PT, but in 1/350 I have to wonder if I want to build that small. If my vision gets much worse I'll need a seeing-eye dog... Incidentally, I tried to order the PC from Great Models Webstore back in July and never got it and am still bugging them for a refund. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Tenacity Camo My photo of PG-71 -- dated July 1944 -- shows the starboard side in what appears to be Measure 32 camouflage. However, given the weathering, shadows, and angle from which it was taken (aerial view), the actual colors are anybody's guess. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: "Reynaga, Tim@EDD" Subject: 1/700 DD funnel grilles Mark, I have had good luck constructing 1/700 destroyer funnel grilles using fine copper wire attached with white glue. I prefer to use copper wire rather than solder since it doesn't bend quite so easily and makes a stronger assembly when done. This tougher material requires that the parts be trimmed prior to assembly, but I find that this way is easier anyway. My first attempt was frustrated when I broke a 90% completed assembly while trying to trim a part in place. I suppose brass would work just as well. White glue is useful for this sort of fine work since it is very forgiving to work with. Cyanoacrylate and epoxy make strong bonds, but they are hard to work with in very small quantities; they dry quickly and tend to build up. White glue allows plenty of time to work; it dries quickly, but a little moisture softens it right up again, so you can work it as long as you want. Similarly, any glue buildup can be readily removed with a wet brush. The bonded metal isn't very strong, but then it doesn't really need to be. The last one I did was an Japanese DD. After hollowing out the funnel, I recreated the overall dome shape of the grille by bending the wire over the solid kit grille part and cutting it to size. The first part was a longitudinal arc going fore and aft, attached with white glue at each end to the top of the funnel. This piece formed the anchor for the rest of the structure. I then made similar arc shaped parts for the cross pieces, cutting each in half. These went on one by one until a structure resembling the lines on a Union Jack was built up, all attached with thinned white glue. This yielded a delicate funnel grille with a total of seven parts. The process sounds more complicated than it was; I was able to complete two funnel grilles in a couple of hours. Also, I like to handle very small parts by wetting a fine paintbrush with saliva. I know it sounds gross, but running a (clean!) paintbrush across your tongue makes it into a wonderful tiny parts handling tool; the parts stick lightly to the brush, which becomes a useful handle. Obviously this practice would be a problem with cyano or epoxy, but with white glue it's a snap. No more photoetch projectiles fired from tweezers! Now if someone would just come up with a tastier glue... Tim Reynaga -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: Ed Grune Subject: ISW PC and 80'ELCO Hello SMMLies Bruce Simard wrote asking for opinions on the ISW PC and PT boats. I've just finished the PC, done as PC472 in a US Naval Historical Center photo of her in the late summer 1942. She's Measure 21 - Navy Blue overall. She's sitting on the top of my monitor right now. She's a tad over 5 3/4 inches long. The kit is 1-piece, full hull and superstructure/stack. Typical ISW detail -- the gun tubs tend to be a little heavy compared to some of the other manufacturers. The bulkheads have nicely formed hathes and draped fire hoses. Brass wire is supplied for the mast. There is a fret of etched brass rails, 20mm shields, depth charge roll-off racks and K-gun racks, plus some other detail parts.. Typical of ISW, the 20mm guns had some resin flash from the molding. It was no problem to clean it up with a knife. The 3-inch gun forward was well done, the 40mm mid-ships needed some work. The worst problem I had was with the prop shaft supports - they're uneven. The cast resin prop blades were asymetrical - they could have been built-up with some styrene stock and refiled, but I found a set of 3-bladed props in my spares box. After I painted the ship I applied the brass railings. There was a round bend for which an x-acto #2 handle worked well. There were 2 other round bends and a half a dozen square bends. The rest of the railing were straight runs. The length of the railing pieces were not long enough to go the length of the ship -- but the breaks fell ajacent to some of the ready lockers on the deck and I was able to disquise them well. I rigged it with halyards, and mast fore/back stays with some fine stainless wire, painted black. I cut come depth charges from Evergreen rod and filled the depth charge racks. Overall I probably have less that 20 hours invested in it My overall impression is that it is an excellent ship model for someone who has built styrene ship kits and wants to try their hand at a resin and brass ship kit. 1) It is not expensive, it was less than 40 dollars. You can learn on it without fear of screwing up a large [expensive] kit. 2) All the parts you need are included. You don't need to buy additional parts to fit it out. 3) The bends on the etched brass are simple and for the most part the rails are applied in long runs. 4) ISW has a reputation for excellent customer service. If there is something wrong with the kit -- something mis-cast or a part missing, ISW will make it right. Just call or write. 5) At 5 3/4 inches its smaller than a 1/700th destroyer, but the parts are bigger and easier to handle with hands that are equiped with all thumbs. On the con side -- the instructions leave something to be desired. There is no parts list. It is basically a 2-view drawing. There is a painting guide/drawing for Measure 22 and a dark half tone photocopy of a photo of a PC in that measure. ISW could stand to spend a little more time on that facet of their kits. You will need to be prepared to do some research. BTW the Naval Historical Center has some photos of some PCs which were transfered to the Korean navy which are excellent sources of deck & superstructure detail. Overall -- its a B. I enjoyed it. I hope to have some photos of the completed kit this weekend and will try to post them. They'll probably go to the ISW site. As far as the PT boat, I have it. I've not worked on it. The resin 50 caliber guns are poor. The 20 mm and 37 mm guns will need some work. There is no brass included - and the depression rails are necessary (IMO). I've made arangements with Caroline at WEM to purchase an extra set of the PT-109 brass when that kit is released. Instructions are typical for ISW. The color scheme is copied from Floating Drydock Camoflage1. I have a pre-production shot of a 110' Subchaser from ISW which is next up on the workbench. Its ready to paint this weekend. In my opinion -- get the ISW PC. Hold off and get the WEM 80'ELCO when its released. (When will that be Caroline?) Ed Mansfield, TX Temperature in the mid-80s. We had winter for 2 days 2 weeks ago. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: Ed Grune Subject: Re: Photetch Replacement Mark: An excellent source of photoetched hoo-hahs {thats a technical term, don'cha know} is the railroad department at the hobby shop. You may have to check a full service railroad hobby shop - or ask to look at the store copy of the Walther's Catalog. I've replaced the bottoms of resin life-rafts with some square-etched radiator screen. Now you can see through them - just like 1:1 scale. I've contemplated the use of some rectangular opening brass as the grating on 1/350 SSN ballast tank openings. Other shapes can come in handy. I found a photoetched radio antenna set which had some 3/8" diameter circles which made good deck bolsters for 1/350 scale 40mm guns. Be imaginative! Start with your basic etch patern - then cut away everything which doesn't look like what you need. Once its painted and in place who's going to tell you that you're wrong! Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: Mike Connelley Subject: USS Missouri Howdy: From what I have heard, there is some controversy on whether or not the Mo had the deck blue paint on the decks at the time of the surrender. Anyway, it's definately sure that the deck blue was gone by the time she got back to the states in 1945. Until the Navy Day in New York in October 1945 (and some time after) she was still in Ms21 (?) with the navy blue up to the sheer line and haze gray above. You shouldn't have to do much in the way of modifications to the kit (i.e. there weren't any changes in the ship's fittings). The upshot is that you can have the Mo in Ms21 and a nice teak deck at the same time without angering the accuracy gods. Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 36) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Fabrication & USS Princeton Over the last few months, I've been in touch with a number of folks here offlist discussing various projects. One of the things that occassionaly comes up in these discussions is references to the proper thickness of sheet, rod, etc styrene, brass tube, brass rod, etc to use in fabricating replacement parts for models. How does one go about figuring out what thickness is right for X part on X scale model? Never having even contemplated fabbing replacement parts (let alone having done it before, or worked with these materials), the concept of how this is figured out completely blows my mind/goes right over my head. Next: I managed (somehow...my luck usually isn't this good) to high-bid on a DML USS Princeton CVL kit on ebay earlier this week. My hope is to build this kit as the San Jacinto as she appeared in '44 in her Ms-32/33 camo scheme. The idea is to eventually display the kit along with the Skywave USS Miami (built as USS Houston). I have no idea if they ever served together, but I found it interesting that both ships were largely funded by a warbond drive here in Texas to replace CA-30. According to "The Last Battlestation" so much money was raised that there was enough to pay for both the CL as well as a CVL (or something like that). Now, if I can just find a Miami kit for under $40 (yeah...right!) From what I've read, San Jacinto was completed with some measure of armor, while Princeton was not. I haven't invested in any books/plans for this kit yet, but did this result in any noticable visual external differences I would need to take into account when building the kit. Likewise, what air groups were assigned aboard the San Jacinto during this period of time (and what type of planes should I look at getting for the model). Then there's the dreaded issue of brass, plans, etc (nuff said). Any help/suggestions (things I should think about) will be welcome and appreciated. Thanks in advance. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 37) From: Dimitrios Apostolopoulos Subject: Correction: Furious Camouflage Schemes One small correction on my previous message about Furious' camouflage scheme. >>> 5. MID 1943: Furious is wearing a simplified version of the 1942 ADM scheme. The most obvious differences are that the "blue" (possibly B15) thin elongated panel on the STARBOARD has been removed and a light grey (possibly G45) has replaced white everywhere. << -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 38) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Charlie Parker & Navis >> In defense of Navis and Paolo To all of you that read this list and haven't figured it out by now. Here is how it works. Many of the people on this list are in the hobby business, or are involved with others in the business at some level. They have a stake in what is written on this list. They say nice things about their friends and nasty things about their competition. There is a lot of in fighting going on and it gets bloody sometimes. Paolo and Navis as a publication and a reviewer of products offends a lot of people, by trying to write what you want, honest reviews and comments. In short SMML is a team sport and the objective is to win, you need to know who is on who's team and who's fan they are. If you can't figure it out, I'm a Paolo and Navis Fan. << Charlie, Now there is the pot calling the kettle black. You are (or were, at least) part of this industry. I had some well know problems with a BWN HOUSTON kit that Mike refused to address, and I got what I wanted and more once you took control of the problem. I needed a new lower forward hull and you sent me an entire kit, plus a U-boat to boot. I never was able to swap the extra 5" gun for the missing 1.1" mount, but it no longer matters. Are you trying to sound like McCain now....we are all corrupt becasue we all want positive reviews? When I was saying nasty things about BWN, I was not in the biz yet. I am now, and will endorse their products to a certain degree, but not their reputation for customer service which has apparently suffered since 1998. There are other companies out there that I regularly buy kits from, and they are competition in a way...ISW/Commander, Jim Shirley (well, not anymore), Classic Warships, especially his excellent book series, and a few others. When I tried to get a "sample copy" of Navis to decide whether or not to advertise there, I was ignored. FSM. OTOH, has sent me (repeatedly) free issues in an attempt to obtain my business. For the record, my biggest issue with Paolo, beyond his rudeness & bombastic personality, is his blatant accusations that the IPMS judging system is rigged. At Santa Clara where he won several awards, his problem was that they weren't first place. At Columbus, he was looking for a judge and I was unlucky enough to be standing there. He disagreed with what we had said were deficiencies with his HMS Belfast, and in both cases he proceeded to blast the judges on rms. JZ (yes, the pun was intended!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 39) From: James Corley Subject: 1/540 Nimitz Kits Kelly Quirk sez: >> I'm starting to become a bit concerned myself. I placed an order on November 4 for the 1/500 Nimitz he was advertising. He told me at the time of order that it would be available in December. In the mean time, I get my credit card statement and see that he had already charged the model to me before shipping it. In January I got hold of him, he told me there was a slight delay but it would be shipping very soon. I mentioned I didn't appreciate my card being charged before the model was shipped, he assured me everything would be fine. Here it is mid February, I too left another message on his machine and have heard nothing back. Shaya, if you're out there, I would at least like an update as to what is going on.... << These are from Trumpter and Stevens Int'l had them listed as being available Feb 10 (Yesterday) and we are expecting them at AAA Hobby anyday now. Hopefully we will get them by Tuesday. When they come in, I'll get a quickie review up. JZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Shane Subject: APMA meeting & website upgrade Hi gang, Well it's that time of the month again. Anyone who is in the Sydney region on Saturday are welcome to attend the monthly meeting of the Australian Plastic Modeller's Assoc (see website for details). Also, I'm in the midst of a massive upgrade to the site, so if anyone would like to link to APMA's page, give me a bell at mailto:sljenkins@tac.com.au & I'll return the compliment in my next upload. Regards, Shane VP APMA http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Hello from NY Much apologies to everyone. It's not easy getting stuff from suppliers sometimes. For example when did you last see a 1/700 OH Perry in the US. or a 1/700 WWII Independence Class Carrier. Here's another great one the 1/700 WWII planes from Fugimi. Or the WWI Subchaser from Glencoe. The suppliers and for sure the Dealers are left in the dark about standard kits that are very sought after. I think most of you will agree that those ship only dealers will try very hard to get that kit for you even if it's 3 mos. late. BECAUSE we too are ship modelers. I'll just speak for Pac.Front and myself that we try very hard to have what no other hobby stores have in the world in ship models. We spend a lot of time and effort to get these kits. Suppliers are not always that good about getting things to us in a timely fashion. Please any resin dealers on the SMML I'm not referring to you guys. We all in the ship building business try very hard to please our customers because this is our livelihood. The Nimitz's were harder than I thought to get from China. The shipping was costing me almost double than the kit itself. I needed help getting them into the US. We should be shipping out by Mon thru Wed. of next week. They will be cheaper for those who have and will order from us. Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: James Corley Subject: USS Hornet conversion >> Morning everyone (or at least it is here in the Colorado high country). I'd like to do a Revell 1/480 Yorktown as the Hornet. I still have a set of instructions from the issue of the kit as the Midway Carriers, and they seem to indicate that the parts from the Yorktown are the ones needed (it was the Enterprise that had different pieces). I have three questions: 1. Am I out of my mind (not necessarily rhetorical)? 2. As I recall, this kit was once issued as a dedicated Hornet with B-25s. Does anyone have this issue they'd like to dispose of? If not, how about just the B-25s? 3. I also seem to recall someone doing a set of resin upgrades to this kit. Does anyone know who that is and how to get hold of them? (Yes, I know about the GMM set and am planning to get that too.) Thanks everyone, and I look forward to hearing from you, especially on question #1! ;-> << Nautilus Models will be issuing a USS HORNET set at some point in the future, maybe late this year or early next year. We are behind schedule due to real life....too much to do, too little time. As for question #1, please sit on the couch...... JZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: James Corley Subject: John Collins Hey John, pleasew email me regarding the item that Avia imports has left in your possession. I need it! James -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume