Subject: SMML VOL 823 Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 01:01:01 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: 1/350 scale rigging 2: Re: Hood Memorial 3: Off Thread - Beautiful Herefordshire 4: Re: Naval Films 5: Re: How about a Garbage scow? 6: Duplicates 7: Bollards 8: Re: Starblazers 9: Re: Red lead 10: KGV early camouflage 11: LSD-4 and Destroyer Book 12: Stettin - 4 May 1945 13: Re: Star Blazers 14: Re: Oyodo kit 15: Re: What subjects manufacturers produce 16: Non English speakers as readers and sources 17: Another book question 18: Pit-Road Request for input 19: Yamaro Reference 20: hull stations aka hull sections/lines/body plans 21: Re: HMS Prince of Wales Camouflage 22: Re: Wish List Beware 23: 1:350 Tamiya KGV 24: 1/200 Yamato 25: Heller Hood -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Site Updates 2: NEW PHOTOETCHED BRASS from WHITE ENSIGN MODELS (and it's all original!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Charles McCreary Subject: 1/350 scale rigging Hello experts, I am currently working on the Tamiya 1/350 scale Musashi. I have a couple of questions concerning the rigging. 1. what should I use for rigging line, for yardarm lines and for radio wires? 2. how could I simulate the pulleys used at the top of the yardarms on the conning tower? Another question unrelated to rigging is this: I am using GMM photoetch set but am curious to know what ladder to use which connects the signal platform to the highest level of the citadel (i.e. the deck from which the smokestack emerges.) Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Charles R. McCreary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: AllenFW2@aol.com Subject: Re: Hood Memorial Hi Mike The main memorial to Hood's crew is the Royal Naval Memorial at Southsea, Portsmouth. This large structure has the names of a great majority of the men lost at sea during the war (not just Hood). About 98-99% of Hood's men are listed there. The others are listed elsewhere (i.e., Halifax for the four Canadians who were lost). As far as an official British government memorial to Hood and crew (ala the Marine Corps Iwo Jima statue outside D.C., or the "Maine" memorial on the US Naval Academy) is concerned, there really isn't one. There are several small semi-official/non-official memorials though: 1. The Church of St John the Baptist in Boldre has a section of the church devoted to Hood and the lost men. 2. The "Hood Stones" at Loch Eriboll, Durness, Scotland (we'll be posting a story on these soon) 3. The "Hood Bench" at the Imperial War Museum (dedicated by survivor Ted Briggs) 4. The Hood Battery on Ascension Island (actual 5.5" guns from Hood are there) 5. Training Ships/Schools Hood- Both the Royal Navy and Royal Canadian Navy have school buildings named for her. 6. Pubs- There have been several pubs named after her. 7. Pieces of wreckage that washed ashore after the war have been memorialised in museums, etc. 8. Individual towns/cities may have memorials (if so, we haven't received any photos yet). 9. The HMS Hood Association's web site - the only place you will find the names and memorials for ALL the lost men in one place (along with an ever increasing number of their photos)... I'm sure there are many others I have overlooked, but this should give you an idea as to how Hood is covered. If any of our readers have more information on memorials in their towns,etc., please contact me. Hope that helps! BTW - Thanks to everyone for the follow-up information to my post concerning Hood's current location/status. Yes, the book that I had forgotten the title to was indeed the "Bedford Incident." Fiction yes, but very entertaining nonetheless! Frank Allen "Battle Cruiser Hood" HMS Hood Association -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Ed Grune Subject: Off Thread - Beautiful Herefordshire Hello SMMLies I would like to encourage all of you to go visit Caroline Carter's newest segment on the White Ensign website - Beautiful Herefordshire. http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/herefordshire/herefordshire.htm Caroline and Dave Carter have researched the history of their community and have put together some stunning photographs to accompany their walkabout tours. Stop by for a visit. I've enjoyed my strolls along the drovers path and around Wigmore Castle. With scenery like that its a wonder they get any work done at all. Ed Mansfield, TX Hi Ed, I second that, it's very well put together. I quite enjoyed it & I keep forgetting to tell them that. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Naval Films I want to add another fact to Mike's email about how "realistic" cold war movies were. Today we have a problem getting into the "mind-set' of the times, it's the same problem we all have when reading history, we are not "thinking or feeling" like the people did at the historic time. Believe me, as one who was in the military during the cold war, especially the 50's, the mind set was not "if there is a nuclear war", it was "when there is a nulear war", quite a big difference in the way everyone acted. For civilians, remember bomb shelters and nuclear bomb drills in schools????? Cheers, Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Re: How about a Garbage scow? SMMLies will remember the SS Titanic craze of recent times. I also remember a club meeting I attended some years ago where a guy brought in a crump of white styrofoam attached to a cocktail stick and mounted on a well finished wood base. He then proceeded to expalin that it was a 1:100,000 scale model of the tip of the iceberg that sank the Titanic. I forget the rest but he had the most hilarious time explaining the research (the physics, engineering properties, etc.) on how he arrived at that particular configuration. Have fun. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "James Johnson" Subject: Duplicates Keith Bender hit a chord with me when he mentioned that we don't need more duplicates. I build 1/350 and have often wondered why we have two Alaskas, two Hoods, two Perry class, two Atlantas, two West Virginias, two San Franciscos, etc. etc. There are a bunch more but I can't remember them off the top of my head. There are even two Warsprite release announcements even though both have been around for over a year. I have been waiting for the release of WEM's Repulse ever since it was announced quite some time ago. I just wonder if they are waiting for someone else to announce it. I know this is not the case, but some conspiracy monger might think that. Can some one let me know what's going on in this branch of the hobby? Even if it's off line. Between the Navis brush fire, the photo-etch problems and everyone duplicating everyone else's efforts, its enough to send me back to 1/72 aircraft and 1/43 cars. If any manufactures need any suggestions as to what to produce, instead of producing what is available of announced, please let me know. I, as are all the rest of the SMML, am just full of suggestions. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "James Johnson" Subject: Bollards I don't want to pick this scab again, but at least it's about building models. I followed the thread about bollards and wanted to point something out at the time, but didn't. So here goes! I build 1/350 and almost always do full hull models. A lot of kits come with the hull split so either w/l of full hull can be done. If you haven't tried to glue the hull of a BB, CV,or CA together, you are missing one of the more frustrating tasks in ship modeling. The top and bottom don't line up. This is not a complaint against the manufactures, it is just a fact of life. There are areas where one side can be 1/4" out of alignment. This means that there is a whole lot of filling, sanding, routing, rasping swearing and straining going on while the two halfs are mate to coincide. I have had, believe it or not, kits with all the bollards intact. By the time the hull looks like it is one continuos piece, half of the bollards are gone, knocked off by my thumb while holding the hull in order to sand it. I know it won't change the way things are done, but if I had a choice, separate bollards or brass/plastic rod with the locations cast into the hull would be my preference. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Phil Gollin" Subject: Re: Starblazers I understand that the Thunderbirds puppet series will be aired again this Autumn, with the strings digitally removed !!!!!!! Hi Phil, I have also heard that as well :-((( Anyway, before we go too far down the Thunderbird track, it is getting a wee bit off topic, unless you're talking about T4 ;-). So, any replies to Phil offlist please. FAB Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Kdg345@aol.com Subject: Re: Red lead To Michael Donegan: During the Korean War, we used red lead as an undercoat to weather decks and zinc chromite (Yellow undercoat) for interior spaces. It might have been something to do with lead exposure. Ken Groom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: KGV early camouflage There was a good series on the KGVs in the Conway journal 'Warship' issues 9-11. Issue 11 has several IWM photos of KGV in her initial scheme and a starboard side drawing dated October 1940, which shows the scheme. The author, Robert Dumas, states that the port side pattern was believed to be the same as that of the starboard. Colours are AP507A blue grey and 507B medium grey. It was changed in December 1940 to a three-colour scheme, for which further drawings are provided. Robert Lockie Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Matthew Prager Subject: LSD-4 and Destroyer Book 1. I read somewhere a while ago about a company that was going to release a 1/700 kit of LSD-4. I don't remeber which company or where I saw it. Anyone have and info? 2. I'm looking for a book published by the Naval Institute, I believe the name is "Flush Decks and Four Stacks". What was the author's name? Thanks for the help Matt Prager -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Christopher Hughes" Subject: Stettin - 4 May 1945 An odd headline, but a fascinating tale to be told... Today, I was fortunate enough to make a close examination of the results of a Mosquito photo recce sortie along the Baltic Coast. The pilot's report reputedly states that there was much activity on the ground and at sea. I haven't seen the report yet, but I hope to read it soon. The imagery is superb quality and the pilot seems to have spent some time going back and forth over the coast between Stettin, Swinemunde, Seebad Ahlbeck and Peenemunde. For historical accuracy, I use the German names, well aware that some locations are now in Poland. Some snapshots: The KMS Lutzow, moored at Stettin. Evidence of at least two near misses from Tallboy bombs. I wouldn't have liked to have been on watch when they landed... The turrets are well and truly clobbered, Z (?) turret appears to have had the top blown off and A has a direct hit from a smaller bomb, dead centre. This turret is skewed to one side and the guns are totally misaligned. There's much frantic activity in Stettin harbour. Large combatants being nudged around by tugs, a hospital train disgorging human cargo adjacent to a hospital ship. This ship will never sail as a destroyer moored outboard has sunk at her moorings. A Swedish (?) train ferry moored bow on to the quay, a flag very visible on her superstructure. In fact, I counted at least another two ships which appeared to be carrying Swedish flags as recognition signals. A seaplane base with at least eight Bv. 138 flying boats. Another airfield (not yet identified) with Ju. 88's and at least one Ju. 188. Seebad Ahlberg is probably under attack, parts of the town are ablaze and there's much evidence of hasty defences, many gardens have trenches and foxholes - which is not local air-raid precaution stuff, this is defensive fieldworks. Much evidence of shellfire from artillery. Swinemunde is also under attack and has been heavily bombed. Some small vessels are trying to escape into the Baltic, where there is much activity offshore. There is a suggestion of flak around one vessel, she's zig-zagging and the sea bears evidence of recent impact splashes. A minesweeper is clearing a channel ahead of another vessel. Other combatants appear dead in the water, one appears to be venting a light toned emission, maybe steam. What looks like a First World War dreadnought is moored offshore - here's the SMMLie question - Any ideas what ship she might be? Maybe the Schleswig Holstein? I haven't finished my analysis of this small episode of history yet, but when I do, I'll post some more - if that's OK with the Listmaster?? Regards, Chris Hi Chris, No worries on posting more on this topic. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Robert Vancel Subject: Re: Star Blazers >> Trust me...there are no scene in any of the series or movies were the Yamato/Argo is shown docked adjacent to "real warships" as there are no longer any blue-water naval vessels in use at that time. In fact, the only appearance of a blue-water vessel is a tanker getting caught up in a swell caused by the Comet Empire Citadel (displacing a huge amount of water in the bay near the capital city.) << Hmm... You know, I think I've mixed my shows again. (Oh My GOD! I'm Human!) I was thinking about Macross (its a reeeeeeeeaaaaaaaalllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyy big ship) that uses a Troop Carrier and A/C carier for 'arms'. That's the scene I recall. Reason I thought it was Yamato was because of the marathon I was treating myself to. >> You are correct though, there are a number of occassions where the ship is shown ploughing it's way through blue water (rather than the sea of stars), but they are few and far between for the most part. That's why, even though I'm a rabid fan of the show, I've abstained for the most part from making comments about the show and it's related kits here. << Thanks. >> Dasvidanya! << *shrugs* Nichevo Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Oyodo kit >> Does anyone know where I could purchase a Fuj. 1/700 "Eyed" Japanese Cruiser kit? << Keep and eye on the ships and boats section of eBay. That kit turns up from time to time. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: What subjects manufacturers produce >> My point is what makes a kit manufacture decide on what ship to model. << Plain and simple, they do market surveys. They decide what market to aim the new product at (kids, adults, little old ladies that smoke etc.) and literally hire a marketing firm to do a survey. If the results show that they will sell a certain number of units they may go into production after they weigh the R&D and tooling costs. If the numbers add up for them, then you get a model. That's simplified response, but accurate. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: PulligS@aol.com Subject: Non English speakers as readers and sources Noted the post from the man from Chile. He of course is correct about our use of the English language. Seeing his post does raise a question. Do any of the Latin countries have models of their battleships etc. that we might not have access to in the USA? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: PulligS@aol.com Subject: Another book question I am now re-reading Dr Friedmans #2 sub. book now for the 3rd time. I think when I have read it 7-8 times I may have learned enough to understand. When you start to think you know a lot about ship history just pick up one of his books. So much of what we read is rehashing the same old stuff, its good to have a book that takes more than a couple of days to go thru. All of his books are must haves for a base line collection. Sam Pullig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Stuart Batchelor" Subject: Pit-Road Request for input I was skimming thru the bulletin board on Warship site, and the have a request from Pit Road (dated 2/12/00) asking for input on what ship modelers want to see released in injection kit form. I have no idea if it is true (I hope so, they have some good feedback already), but it seems to be worth a shot. Stuart Batchelor Norman, OK Where Mother Nature forgot that it is the middle of February (78oF) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: jpn001@heitech.com.my Subject: Yamaro Reference I've just received my 1:350 Yamato from Tamiya all the way from Japan. I'm trying to do some research on the ship before start building it. Does anyone still have the book, The Battleship Yamato by Janusz Skulski publish by the Naval Institute Press? If so, can he/she do a photocopy of all the detail plan/diagram of the ship for me or does anybody knows where can I obtain a copy of this book. I've found a book from White Ensign Model with same title The Battleship Yamato from the anatomy of the ship series. The publisher of the is Conway, now from my knowledge that book is being publish by the Naval Institute Press. Can anyone tell what is the difference between them and when it is available. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: SolidStump@aol.com Subject: hull stations aka hull sections/lines/body plans Tom W. of floating Drydock refers to "Hull Stations" in parts of his catalog. I assume this is the same information as Hull Sections/lines etc. though they may be in a different format. There are several different ways to show the shape of a hull on a drawing. (ship plans experts can help here) Myron Smith's booklet has a nice drawing. I've got the "full size" courtesy Floating Drydock. I forgot that Profile Morskie did California.....I was in and out of town at the time and it vanished before I could take a good look. I seem to remember the emphasis of the book was post rebuild. There would have to be many good hull sections to get an accurate hull. The armor belts and torpedo bulge of the pre-Pearl Harbor ship are tricky. Thanks to all who have responded. Simon Scheuer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: HMS Prince of Wales Camouflage Hi, I've long wondered what were the colors of the Prince of Wales' camouflage pattern, an Admiralty "First Disruptive" pattern, but I have yet to find anything official that reveals this. I frankly do not think anyone knows for sure what the colors were. My own guess is that, given that some of the colors were almost certainly in the "Ms" series, the colors were Ms1, Ms2, Ms3, Ms 4, Ms. 4A (or 507C), and white (the top of the after funnel as early as the Halberd convoy in September 1941). Some think 507A and B5 were in the pattern; that's certainly possible, as they were in use at the time, but, again, where is there any official documentation to prove it one way or the other? Incidentally, I wonder what Tamiya used as its source for the pattern and its colors for the 1/350 kit. Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Re: Wish List Beware >> Obviously this came as a suprise to us. Any retail store that would depend on a small group to support their business is looking for failure. I thought the owner surely must have known this. << Hear, hear. There is a lot of baggage that goes with Rusty's statement on implied but unrealistic expectations between the local hobby shop and the modelling club. Some month's ago there was a thread on granting special privilages and merchant discount's to club members for an upcoming a modelling convention. A few writers including one convention organizer opined that when club members pay dues they should receive certain advantages over the regular public such as first day admission for members only and have first pick on the vendors' offerings to include a members' discount. I believe the primary function of a club should be to provide a regular venue for like minded hobbyists to meet and socialize, exchange ideas and perhaps earn a few bragging rights. That should be it. That $10 or $20 annual membership fee just about covers the hall's rental and the newsletter. Hopefully when the club is interesting enough to attract new members they can then do bigger events. I believe it does no one any good when club members demand and the committee agrees to arm twisting the local hobby shops for members' discounts. Market forces already force the merchants to work on very thin margins and a 10 percent discount hurts them. $5 savings on a $50 kit isn't that great an incentive that modellers would go elsewhere if the shop didn't offer it. Chances are if that 10 percent is considered so important that same person would chat up the shop owner then buy it for less from a mail order discount firm. To cut a long story short, support you local businesses and build a good relationship. Don't twist their arms or make any promises to bring extra business their way. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Jens Haakon Brandal," Subject: 1:350 Tamiya KGV I admit to not paying attention when this subject has been debated because I had no kit to which I could apply the knowledge. During a business trip to Oslo, I saw a local hobby shop that had the 1:350 Prince of Wales and the King George V on sale. In the end, I thought the camo scheme on the side of the box of the KGV was more attractive than the PoW. The box claims the ship is shown in 1944 camo of two tone grey and two tone blue, but a 1945 configuration. What do I need to do to my newly acquired kit to appropriately model the ship in this attractive camo scheme? The addition of etched brass is compulsory, and I have always been happy with Gold Medal Models. No shares, no special priveleges, just a happy customer. Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: william cardamone Subject: 1/200 Yamato Anybody out there worked on the -1:200 Yamato - By "Nashima". I've just completed this model and am now converting it to remote control. Any tips on the gearing supplied with the kit? I find its making to much noise and am trying to muffle the noise by surrounding the gears with a grease box. Are there any other alternative's? Any Information regarding the Yamato would be appreciated. Thanks William "New kid on the block" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Martin Short" Subject: Heller Hood Hi Shane & Everyone, Now, should I try and make something out of that sows ear of a kit, the Heller 1/400 HMS Hood, or sit on my hands and wait for the ICM release!! If anyone has fixed up this kit and thinks it is worth the effort, please contact me off list with the clues on what to do.. the turrets are the obvious...some re-casting methinks... best wishes to all, Shorty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Mike Subject: Site Updates Oops, Looks like I forgot to tell you all that I've put an update on the Site! Since last week, we have some painting Hints'n'Tips collated from the last 6 months SMML (or those that were obvious - if you have your own, please send them in), the Archives have been updated several times, and we've a picture reference for a question in a recent issue. As soon as I get some time, I'll be adding the first part of the reference photos for the Cutty Sark. If anyone has material they'd like to contribute, drop me a line. Mike SMML Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: NEW PHOTOETCHED BRASS from WHITE ENSIGN MODELS (and it's all original!) Hi Guys, We are proud to present the latest PE venture from White Ensign Models. It is the new SHIPS BOATS fret in 1/700 .... AND 1/600 scale (hear that Felix?!) This imaginative and challenging set contains, amongst other things: 14' Sailing Dinghy , Thwarts , Rudder and FULLY RAISED SAILS, and folded mast array for stowed 16' Motor Dinghy, Thwarts, 27' Whaler, Thwarts, Oars and Rudder., 30' Gig. Thwarts , Oars and Rudder, 32' Cutter. Thwarts, Oars and Rudder, 45' Launch. Thwarts, Oars, Rudder and FULLY RAISED GAF RIGGED SAILS BTW, we're the first folks to provide you with PE sails for your Royal Navy ships' boats! There will be multiples of the above on the fret, and each will be clearly identified on the actual fret. So... whether it's that Tamiya Nelson or O Class destroyer, or that KGV you're building, this IS the bizz! It is a good sized fret, has loads of stuff on it, and will provide the usual excellent value for money. Peter Hall's just adding the finishing touches to it, so I expect this will be available within about 3 weeks (tho' not in time for the Fleet Air Arm model show). BTW, PE 738 1/700 KGV Class battleships and PE 619 1/600 KGV Class battleships (this is the ONLY fret on the market that covers the entire class in 1/700 and in 1/600) will hopefully be ready for the show, but I'm not holding my breath. These massive sets (the 1/600 scale set is almost the same area as the Gold Medal Models 1/350 KGV set!) are priced at 16.13 pounds, post free (around $25.00). We are taking orders right now.. just E-Mail me, personally, and I will put you on the "first to ship" list.. Thanks! Caroline Carter, WEM (White Ensign Models) PS not shippy-boaty I know but I know some of you are interested (including Shane!) .. I have added my just-completed photo feature on Wigmore Castle, with some of my aerial photos included: http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/herefordshire/wigmore/wigcastle.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume