Subject: SMML VOL 824 Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:45:04 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Hull bottoms & Wasp 2: Re: Pit-Road Request for input 3: Musashi Rigging 4: Yamato book 5: German Warship 6: Yamato Ref 7: Re: Non English speakers as readers and sources 8: Motorizing 1/200 Yamato for R/C 9: Re: Duplicates 10: Re: HOOD Memorials 11: Camouflage color and Tirpitz plans 12: Cyber-Squatters 13: Re: Yamato Reference 14: KGV colour schemes 15: Attaching Rigging 16: USS Epping Forrest 17: Re: Wish List Beware 18: Frigate Halifax 19: Yamato Reference 20: Yamato reference 21: Information request 22: Re: Flush Decks Author 23: Of Garbage scows and kings... 24: Re: models of battleships in latinamerica 25: U-571 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Satin, Michael N. (LNG-SHEP)" Subject: Hull bottoms & Wasp I have a question and maybe an idea. Most of my ship models are 1/350 and I like doing them full hull. I might be interested in diversifying to 1/700 since there are many good subjects to choose from, but the vast majority of those easily available are waterline only. Have any of the resin folks ever produced or thought of producing hull bottoms for these kits (with attendant screws, shafts, and rudders)? Am I alone in thinking this might be a good idea? Just wondering. Also, does anyone know of a 1/700 scale Wasp (CV-7) out there? Thanks! Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Mike Taylor" Subject: Re: Pit-Road Request for input I'd been in contact with Mr Yoshihara of Pit Road for a few months when our correspondence turned to "what to do next?" So I posted the origional question on the Warship message board and foreworded the results to him whereupon he asked if it was OK for manufacturers to post and I said "Heck Yes"! (Well, maybe not like that;) So it is a request from Pit Road-let them know what you think. Mike T -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Musashi Rigging Hi Charles 1. Try monofilament fishing line (0.3mm is probably OK), you can also get a very decent sag in it. 2. A blob of wood glue makes a reasonable looking pulley. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Yamato book Hi JPN The Conway book and the Naval Institute book are exactly the same. Just different publishers for different countries. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: German Warship Hi Christopher Your ship is the old pre-dreadnought Schliesien (Schleswig-Holstein's sistership). She was mined and sunk off Swinemunde on the 4th May 1945. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Peter & Donna Mispelkamp" Subject: Yamato Ref Both volumes should be identical - its just that the USNIP holds the American rights to this volume. BTW (By the way) it is an excellent resource. Peter K. H. Mispelkamp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Polvi, Henry" Subject: Re: Non English speakers as readers and sources >> Noted the post from the man from Chile. He of course is correct about our use of the English language. Seeing his post does raise a question. Do any of the Latin countries have models of their battleships etc. that we might not have access to in the USA? << On this vein, and along with the others re: why aren't there any other ships - is there >>any<< scale model available of the HMS Canada/RN WW1 and/or Admiral Latorre/Chile (same ship) >>anywhere< Subject: Motorizing 1/200 Yamato for R/C To William Cardamone - In my past, when I was active in scale R/C model ships, I found one very effective way to silence a drive train on my model ships, and that was to eliminate the gear train entirely. But be advised that to do this, you also need to drastically reduce the propeller pitch which will allow the motor to come up to speed without causing the model to run too fast. I did this on three of my R/C models - a 3/32" = 1' scale model of the Titanic and my DD USS Vogelgesang and USS Long Beach, both in 1/96 scale. The propellers (screws) home-made and had scale diameter and scale blade profiles, but the pitch on the blades was almost flat. The result was a set of models that ran at scale speed or slightly better, looked pretty good out of the water, and were absolutely silent while underway. The only sound audible was the slight burbling of the water as the hull slipped through. This solution also eliminates a maintenance item - no need to lubricate what isn't there. Cleaner to operate, cheaper to build, and takes up less hull space inside. Also more efficient - less friction for the motor to deal with. And try to use a lower RPM motor and prop combination to keep things quiet. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: Duplicates Hallo James, I read your post, including your intention to get the WEM 1/350 Repulse.. good man (!) though I don't believe we have yet had the pleasure of your contact up to this date.. we are, of course, taking reservations on said subject.... and would be delighted to hear from you! Anyhow, a few answers are required here I think.. re. "duplicates", many of the 1/350 scale patterns have been through several lots of hands I believe.. most of the earlier US ones, it seems, originated from John Ficklen.. variously, the patterns went from Blue Water Navy, Commanders, thru to Gulfstream, Toms, and mostly reside with Classic Warships now (and, as such, are COPYRIGHT to Classic) ... Re doing other subjects.. just to convert something as complex as a ship pattern into e.g. one of her sisters can be a very time- consuming task.. so you tended to get maybe improvements or "accurising" here and there, but still the same subject being released. I expect that each producer, in their turn, did a run on the kit and made a profit on each release.. Certain other producers DO seem to lack imagination (and we're also talking about a problem in the small-scale resin manufacturing of aircraft and tank modelling here.. have NO doubt!!) and, it seems, simply watch for other folks' announcements, and then leap in and say they will do one as well... madness! In a tiny market, this splits the available sales in half.. those producers would be far better going for a less popular, never-done-before subject and achieving, instead, maybe 2/3 of the total sales that the "popular" subject would have achieved for them, had they had it all to themselves.. it seems to be that "the grass is greener" philosophy rules some mentalities. Re the WEM 1/350 HMS REPULSE 1941, the patterns have been completed (by Peter Hall) for quite a long while (I have the photos right here, and the Photoetch is done (in fact, we decided to rework it recently, and use it in the 1/600 HMS Repulse photoetched brass detail set for the Airfix kit). And no, we are not waiting for someone else to announce it.. whatever gave you that idea! Our problem has been waiting for 1. Brian Fawcett to finish the re-work on it (including porthole eyebrows a la WEM 1/350 HMS Sheffield, and a host of other refinements...) .. he will be able to get back to this in the near future as he is recovering quite nicely from his recent heart attack (well, when that 1/700 RENOWN and NORFOLK are finally put to bed!). THEN 2. there's the big problem with casting capacity .. all producers can run into problems.. ours has been casting.. MDC simply cannot cope with the volume of work sent their way and we have fallen, quite literally, months behind.. we have patterns here for 1/350 LANCE, MILNE, REPULSE, 1/350 HMS VICTORIOUS, 1/350 HMS INVINCIBLE (carrier) 1/350 HMS BRAVE, HMS LEANDER, and fifteen "1/350 NARROW SEAS" patterns all ready to go,, together with innumerable aircraft, 1/700 BARHAM 1941, 1/700 QUEEN ELIZABETH 1918, 1/700 WARSPITE 1916 etc etc.. all awaiting their turn in the sequence. THEN we have the 1/350 HMS WARSPITE. You referred to two announcements on the WARSPITE... that's wrong (for 1/350 anyway!). We at WEM have indeed had this project going for a while, but, as far as I am aware, no-one else, at last check, had announced one.. if someone DOES try that one on.. well, they're complete pillocks (!!) .. see my earlier comments re. "copycat" tactics. (As an aside BTW, I think you'll find that Classic Warships have researched the copyright thing quite extensively and could tell you a bit more about this.. ) There is certainly new stuff coming out.. look at the CW 1/350 USS Salem, the USS Quincy, and the Kirishima for example..all NEW kits that I recommend without reservation. Other producers have made efforts in this department.. for example, the IS 1/350 Seydlitz, which is a sensible departure from the run of the mill, or our 1/350 HMS LEDBURY Hunt Class minehunter, or our forthcoming 1/350 KNOX CLASS and 1/350 C.F. ADAMS Class.. NOT done before. So, if you look hard enough, so ye SHALL find more unusual subjects that are less likely to be copied by others. Thanks for your time, and be sure to send me your full name and address for a complimentary set of price lists! Caroline PS Our 1/350 HMS Trenchant 1999 is also another "first", as is the larger sub, HMS Vanguard. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: HOOD Memorials Hi list, Frank Allen was asking for more memorials to Hood, so here are a few more: In the naval church at Portland is a memorial to the 1,338 men lost with HMS Hood Burnham Norton Church in Norfolk has a memorial to Victor FRancis, leading stoker on HMS Hood All Hallows Church, Tower Hill, London, has a ships crest of HMS Hood, and the words "In Memoriam" In Portsmouth, at the Church of St Ann, there is a Book of Remembrance to the men lost on HMS Hood. Thanks! Caroline Carter WEM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Camouflage color and Tirpitz plans Dear Dimi, Received the material, thank you. Am doing it this way because I have mislaid your E mail address. Please give me your E mail address. And I have that which you were looking for. Dear Al, Have not forgotten you, am going to search this weekend for those plans. Too much material in too small a house. My initial look accidently turned up the complete official set set for the Tirpitz. Not bad actually. I think that just about every blasted rivet is shown on the plans. Question to all. Has anybody heard of a color known as Salmon Pink (circa 1941/42)? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: James Corley Subject: Cyber-Squatters >> Gold Medal Models (GMM) is a U.S. Registered Trademark and cannot be used by any other party for commercial purposes. Moreover, GMM already has a website at a different domain address, easily found using a search engine - simply type in Gold Medal Models. A second GMM website appears on the Navis webpage. << Unfortunately, this action is legal. The area of Cyber-Squatting is vague, since there is "no controlling legislation" over this area. Copyright issues do not apply to the internet domain name arena yet. I have registered the name "Revellogram" and intend to use it as a joke page, making satirical remarks about the large model companies. The question is, Loren, why didn't you register the name yourself? It only costs about $149 for two years of usage. I'm sure Tom would be willing to sell the rights to the name to you, too. Happens every day. Try looking up some of the more common names, most of them have been squatted. Hobbyshop.com, Modelshop.com, etc had all been taken a few months ago when I was getting the name for AAA Hobby here in Atlanta registered. Most of these sites had "for sale" sign up, with a spot to "make an offer" May not be fair, but like I tell my kids.....show me the clause in your contract saying life has to be fair. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Ann Sinkankas" Subject: Re: Yamato Reference Books in the series Anatomy of the Ship were originally published in the UK by Conway Maritime Press, then republished (or perhaps published simultaneously) in the US by the Naval Institute Press. Some of the series has also been republished (or reprinted?) by Phoenix Publications, another American firm. Conway has been acquired by a larger publisher, and Phoenix may be out of business as well, as its magazine, Model Ship Builder (?title) was absorbed by Seaways Ships in Scale recently. As far as I know, Anatomy content is identical regardless of publisher, it being too expensive to change anything except the title page and copyright/bibliographic data page. I have no duplicates, but the titles I own are from all three publishers. My Yamato is from NIP. Regards, GMS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: KGV colour schemes According to Warship 11 (I have quoted from this series several times before and none of the knowledgeable people have laughed at it on the list, so I assume that either the author is reliable or it is so wrong as not to dignify a response!), the colours in the period December 1940 to February 1941 were 507A, 507B and 507C. Port and starboard patterns were different and like PoW's final scheme, the paint seems to have flaked off fairly easily. Both sides are drawn in the article. KGV's final scheme was carried from July 1944 to the end of 1945 and consisted of vertical surfaces in G45 and a blue (B20) panel on the hull side, the Admiralty standard Type B pattern. I believe, but would welcome confirmation/denial, that wood decks were left unpainted, although horizontal metal surfaces were painted a dark blue grey (to my shame, I forget the designation but it was in Alan Raven's fine articles in Plastic Ship Modeler - if you're not a subscriber, take advantage of the current offer and investigate it. I haven't even heard anybody say bad things about it on SMML, which may be of interest given some recent threads..... No, I'm not a shareholder etc etc.). Robert Lockie Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: TechnoInfidel@webtv.net (John Collins) Subject: Attaching Rigging Greeting SMMLmates: Here's to hoping that no one suffered any serious burns. I am glad that it's behind us. Several issues ago, RhinoBones asked about attaching rigging to decks and stuff. Dave (GrafSpee34) replied and suggested making eyebolts. There are eyebolts available commercially. Check your local hobby store for Detail Associates railroad aftermarket accessories. They produce both plastic and wire eyebolts (part number SY2206). The plastic ones are not suitable for rigging as the eye is very delicate and will break under even slight tension. However, with slight modification they can be made into 700 scale fire hose stations. The wire eyebolts are quite useful as shackles to attach rigging to the deck. Simply drill a guide hole with about a #78 or so drill bit, deep enough to sink the bolt up to the eye and superglue it in place. I've used the wire bolts in both 700 and 350 scale. They are a bit large for 700 scale, but they add additional deck clutter that looks convincing, and I've never had a judge complain about them. As for rigging, I bought a Halloween wig with long black hair about 14 years ago. The hair is nylon (I guess) and about 18 to 20 inches long. It is perfect for 700 scale, but somewhat small for 350. It has reasonable tensile strength and will not sag. It knots nicely--I use simple overhand or slip knots to tie it up and reinforce the knot with superglue. In 14 years, I've only used about two square inches of the scalp and have provided several ship modelers with enough to do dozens of ships. It is also perfect for 72 scale aircraft antenna wire. Needless to say one wig will last a lifetime. I hope this will be helpful. John Collins Atlanta, GA Where we are getting a taste of spring, but we are not deceived. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: USS Epping Forrest Hi Guys I'd like to share this with Matt LSD-4 is the USS Epping Forrest and I believe that JAG models was going to make it also I recall that Revell Germany was considering making a modern LSD such as the USS Carter Hall as well in 1/700 scale. The book your looking for is called Flush Decks &Four Pipes by John Alden it's ISBN 0-87021-186-2. So Pitroad is asking again for customer opinions they did this back in '93. Was this in a questionnaire in a postcard? In conclusion I''d like to add another news story. The former Philadelphia Naval shipyard is now called the Philadelphia Naval Business Center and the Kvaener Shipbuilding Co. has purchased about 25% of the base and built a new shipyard out of the old. A year ago they decided (Kvaener) to get out of the business and they have a contract with Phillie to build 3 ships (freighters) and train a local work force they have no purchasers for these ships yet but they begin operation on April 1st. Any one know anyone who wants to buy new freighters? Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Lisa and Bill Wiseman Subject: Re: Wish List Beware Rusty et al, Thanks for the concern and warnings. However a few things that I may not have made clear in my original post. First off, the proprietor of the shop approached me about what we (my club) would like to find in a hobby shop. He is first and foremost a "Train Guy". He has little to no clue about models other than what he does with his layout. Secondly, he OFFERED to give club members a discount. I did not need to "win his heart and mind". Item three, I made no offers of increased business. He is, however, well aware that he is now the "only game in town". While there are three other hobby shops in the area (2 Train and 1 R/C) that have been around for decades, none of them carry model kits nor are they interested in ordering any. He is the only shop in about a forty mile radius that carries model kits. (other than the Revellogram cars found at, K Mart, Wal* Mart, or Toys R Us) He is the only shop in that same geographic area that carries theTamiya Acrylic, Testors MM, and Acryl paints. We hope that this is the beginning of a long relationship and we view it as an opportunity to tailor a hobby shop to the clubs needs. Thanks again for the insights, Doc Wiseman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Frigate Halifax OK. Here is the inevitable follow-on to Gary's query the other day about the new Canadian HALIFAX frigate: What's a good match (enamel and/or acrylic) for the greenish-gray paint? Mike Alexandria, VA USA {Toured a DDH years ago and saw beer-vending machines in the passageways. How decadent! :) } -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: SJantscher@aol.com Subject: Yamato Reference Hi All, While the Skulski book is truely excellent, it isn't generally available (if WEM has one for sale, grab it quick!). I think the versions are the same, with USNI having US printing rights (or something like that). I've seen the same thing with other British publishers' books being printed (reprinted ?) by USNI. I have found another very good reference in a full color book published in Japan by Gakken. It is the same size format as the Skulski book, but is full of close-up photos of the 1:100 scale Yamato model some enthusiasts in Japan made. It is truely a beautiful book, but not cheap. It goes for 4700 yen plus shipping. I got mine from Hobby Link Japan . Use the advanced search feature, and search for Yamato. Good luck Steve Jantscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Mike Connelley Subject: Yamato reference Howdy: As far as the Skulski book goes, I think I saw a few on www.bookfinder.com a few weeks ago. The Naval Institute is sort of the US distributor...in any case Conway is the actual publisher in England. If it's title is Battleship Yamato in the Anatomy series, then it's the book you want (might want to make sure it's by Skulski just double check). Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Information request I wonder if anyone (who perhaps spends more time than I do on the net) can help me with this one. Is there an e-mail or web address for the SkyFotos/PhotoFlite company in Kent, England. I need to ask these folks a question and I have come to hate writing by "Snail Mail" - especially overseas. Can anyone help, either here or off list? Dan Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Jay Schantzen Subject: Re: Flush Decks Author The author of Flush Decks and Four Stacks is John D. Alden. I got my copy via www.bibliofind .com. Jay Schantzen MD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Melea/Mike Maynard" Subject: Of Garbage scows and kings... From SMML VOL 822 Steve Wiper wrote: >> Fact. Battleships, Cruisers, carriers etc. sell much better than a small Coast Guard Cutter. I would be out of business if all I produced were small craft. << Steve, were you once employed by Revell? What did you base this statement on? How many resin Coast Guard models have you offered that tanked? How many ended up being wholesaled to the public from your warehouse cause you couldn't move 'em? What do you know about CG cutters of WWII? A couple of years ago I contacted the mighty Revell Company concerning some kit releases and other business. The gentleman I spoke to on the phone sounded a lot like your statement. After a few moments of conversation, I realized that I was talking to an entrepreneur, not a model builder. My impression was that Revell could be marketing and selling trash can lids(dust bins to our British cousins), woman's hair products, or shoe horns. Point is, they want to make the big American bucks and could car less how they do it. I had hoped that the resin clan were model builders first and businessman second. To simply dismiss an idea (manufacture some new products instead of the same old same old) under the guise of "I build what I know will make money VS what do my potential customers want" is thinking like the fat cats at the BIG injection mold plants. If you re-read my first post I wasn't suggesting that a resin manufacture rush out and build a whole line of non- navy type models. What I had hoped is that someone in the business would think outside the box and say: "Hey, instead of another destroyer, (or DE or AA cruiser), maybe a WWII cutter would be different. And contrary to your statement, not all cutters are miniscule, unless you compare them to an Essex class carrier(and at that point most Navy ships of that period are small.) Lastly if most kit builders are like me, they're hungry for something different to build. I built my first Missouri kit in 1957 and have built about every class of ship since, scratch and kit. And almost all my projects these days are scratch built R/C ships, the smallest being 3 feet in length, the largest 6 feet. BUT when I get tired of the project I always revert to my roots. I'll pull a plastic kit out of the model closet and put it together in two days time. Nothing too fancy, just the joy of building for the fun and satisfaction of it all. By the way, your line looks most impressive, I've heard through mess deck intelligence your models are first rate. Regards, Mike M. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "feed" Subject: Re: models of battleships in latinamerica I have read a post referring the use of english language and a question arised about models of battleships in latinamerica that are not selled in the us. About our battleships i would say all of them were built in England .for example two of them were used in world war I ie. Battleship "Latorre " who fought at Jutlandia naval battle bearing the name of "Canada" the other one was the "Cochrane" transformed to an Aircraftcarrier bearing the name of "Eagle" sunked. We also had among others a beautiful armored cruiser named "Esmeralda" which was transfered to Japan and fought Russian Japanese War under the name of "Itzumi" as far as i know nobody has ever made models kit (for sale)out of them. neither in my country nor abroad. So if anybody has more on this I would appreciate info. Thank you -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Paul Toscano" Subject: U-571 With all of the comments going around about the accuracy of the movie U-571, I just thought the following info from the U-boat net about the real U-571 might be of interest. Paul Subject: UBoat Movie U-571 Type VIIC Laid down 8 Jun, 1940 Blohm & Voss, Hamburg Commissioned 22 May, 1941 Kptlt. Helmut Möhlmann (Knights Cross)Commanders 05.41 - 05.43 05.43 - 01.44Kptlt. Helmut Möhlmann Oblt. Gustav LüssowCareer11 patrols 22 May, 1941 - 1 Aug, 1941  3. Flottille (training) 1 Aug, 1941 - 28 Jan, 1944  3. Flottille (front boat) Successes7 ships sunk for a total of 47.169 tons 1 ship damaged for a total of 11.394 tonsFate Sunk 28 Jan, 1944 west of Ireland, in position 52.41N, 14.27W, by depth charges from an Australian Sunderland aircraft (RAAF-Sqdn 461/D). 52 dead (all hands lost). Men lost from U-boats Unlike many other U-boats, which during their service lost men due to accidents and various other causes, U-571 did not suffer any casualties (we know of) until the time of her loss. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume