Subject: SMML VOL 827 Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:32:06 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: HMCS Halifax Class 2: KM Destroyer decks 3: Why 1:700 4: Re: Why 1/700 5: BATTLESHIP BISMARCK 6: Re: Chinese Junk 7: Re: Chinese Junk 8: Re: filler query 9: Re: True story 10: Re: Chain and RCN vs RAN grey 11: filler query 12: Yamotos, Super Yamotos, and Super Duper Yamotos 13: Re: Filler 14: Re: who said that 15: Re: play Ball 16: Re: Chinese junks 17: Re: Fun with Catalyzed Putties 18: Re: Coming Unglued! 19: The First Destroyers by David Lyon 20: Australian Cruisers 21: 1/700 scale chain 22: why i build 1/700 scale 23: Re: Modern Warship Color Pink 24: 1/700 K-guns 25: Enterprise Art 26: Salmon Pink 27: Quotes 28: Imperial Russian Navy Ship Aurora plans 29: Nichimo Y*m*t* @ 1/200 30: Answering "Feed" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: To all resin kit makers from Gold Medal Models 2: NATS Trophy Sponsorship -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Bill & Joanne Burns" Subject: HMCS Halifax Class Hi, I've seen several references to this ship here in the last couple of days. Which manufacturers make kits of this class of frigate and in what scales? TIA, Wm. (Bill) Burns London, Ont. ICQ # 9682543 http://www.ionline.net/~wburns If necessity is the mother of invention, then war must be the mother of necessity. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: KM Destroyer decks >> know what I'll do for the vertical surfaces. The instructions say to paint the main deck "oak" (wood? what wood, mostly?), and the next level up "chocolate" (presumably a linoleum like UK/IJN?). Is there any connection between these suggestions and reality? << None! All that I have seen indicates German destroyers of WWII were steel decked, painted dark grey or black. The bridge area had wooden decks. BTW You can paint your square life rafts either grey light yellow or, sometimes, red. I have seen these colors in color photos of German destroyers of WWII -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Why 1:700 >> I wonder if anybody can contribute with opinions about the real reason why almost everybody are turning to build 1:700 models. << I wouldnt say that everybody is turning to 1:700, but it is a popular scale: don't need a lot of space to display, the cost is low, enormous range to choose from, can be built faster than larger scales, small but still big enough for neat details. But I think a really key reason for the popularity of 1:700 today is the revolution in photo etched parts. Back in the late 1980's when GMM was came out with loads of those beautiful, inexpensive ready made sets of shiny details, I was hooked into 1:700. All that aside, there is just something very nice about a very small and very well executed model. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Why 1/700 >> I wonder if anybody can contribute with opinions about the real reason why almost everybody are turning to build 1:700 models. Is there any special reason at all. << I'm not an expert but I can venture an educated guess. Models in 1/700 scale started in Japan. Since most of the major manufacturers of plastic ship kit are there the scale caught on. The Japanese manufacturers reps tell me that they are just crazy about small, delicate and accurate models over there. So they are just catering to sales potential (where have we heard that?). Since these companies produce most of the ship kits in the world 1/700 has become the most popular scale in the world. >> That scale seems very small to me besides most of them are waterline models so you got neither screws no rudder. << Lately Dragon has reissued some Skywave/Pit Road kits with hull bottoms. Also see my post yesterday about making your own hull bottoms. Don't be intimidated by modelers here or anywhere else. If you could see them in real life, you would notice they are just like you. I also have never met a modeler (and I have met a lot of them) who didn't enjoy sharing techniques and talking about their models. Everyone on this list who posts are modelers who enjoy talking models. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "JODY KELM" Subject: BATTLESHIP BISMARCK sir, I was hoping you could help me in my search for any books, technical drawings, plans/blueprints ANYTHING on the battleship Bismarck. Also I had received e-mail from a friend telling me about this book on paint schemes for the Bismarck. This is the name in German " Anstriche und Tarnanstriche der deutschen Kriegsmarine" (ISBN 3-7637-5964-6) The ISBN number is of the second printing in 1997 you should be able to find it. I believe if my German is correct I believe translated, to "Camouflage and paint schemes of the German navy" I think? not sure. But the title in German is correct. Please keep me informed on the status of your progress. Thank you for your time with this. Sincerely, Chris Kelm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Chinese Junk >> Secondly, I would to find a rudimentary scale drawing of a chinese junk. I would like to try to make in 1:700 scale. Does anyone know of a source or reference for one. << When I made a junk to go with my PANAY I found that there are all kinds of junks, each being common on certain parts of the river, or seagoing. A fantastic book on them is "The Junks & Sampans of the Yangtze", G.R.G.Worcester, Naval Institute Press, and one with a lot of junk models is "Junks of Central China", J.E.Spencer, Texas A&M Press. The Junks and Sampans book had drawings on almost every page. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Chinese Junk >> Secondly, I would to find a rudimentary scale drawing of a chinese junk. I would like to try to make in 1:700 scale. Does anyone know of a source or reference for one. << Check your trash? Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Procladius@aol.com Subject: Re: filler query Jeff Marksbury asked about filler. I build 1\700 ships, and I have had very good results using thick super glue as a filler. The brand I have been using is Slo-Zap, but I suppose others would work as well. I believe I first heard about using superglue as a filler in FineScale Modeler. I use pieces of stretched sprue as an applicator. After applying the glue, I set it with an accelerator called Zip-Kicker. I have a pair of jewelers forceps with fine tips. I dip the forceps into the bottle of accelerator, close the tips, and withdraw it. This traps a small amount of accelerator between the tips. I touch the tips to the edge of the spot of superglue and it runs out by capillary action, instantly hardening the glue. Then I sand and polish. As it does shrink some, the procedure may need to be repeated, especially if you are filling a large gap. With the use of an accelerator, this can be done quickly. It will dry hard, with a very fine grain, and sands smooth. This is the only filler I use, and I get excellent results. Charles Watson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: True story >> I hope these won't be silly questions .Actually sometimes i feel a little ashamed to put a post in a website where almost everybody have a huge knowlegde of naval subjects. << I know I answered this post, but a TRUE story came to mind that I wrote for the IPMS/USA Journal a few years back. This shows you just how "typical" a modeler I am. Several years back I added a workroom onto my home. The first thing I had to do when the room was finished was to build a workbench. I am no carpenter. My niece gave me a mug once that read, "A note to the do-it-yourselfer, DON'T," I was going to show them who can build a work bench. I got the workbench built and I was very pleased with myself. The only flaw in the project was the bench top had a very slight slope from back to front but it didn't bother me. However, it was going to come back at me with a vengeance. I was working with super glue and a large drop dripped on my pants leg. I wrote off that pair of pants and continued my construction. I just finished painting the hull bottom on my model and while waiting for the paint to dry, I was cutting photo etched parts from the sprue. Of course, one part found its way to the floor. I laid down my Xacto knife (with #11 blade) and began searching the floor. While scanning the floor, the Xacto knife (the devils curse to modelers) began a slow, methodical roll to the front edge of the desk (because of the slight slope in the work bench). You guessed it. The knife fell off the desk and stuck in the back of my head! I was crawling around like a fiddler crab trying to remove it! I finally got the knife out and put my hand on the bench to assist me in getting up. I didn't realize I put my finger inside the red hull bottom paint that was still open. Once I stood up, I raised my arm to balance myself, and with the red paint bottle stuck on my finger ran down my arm onto my shirt. I figured I had enough modeling for one day, so I decided to clean up and take a shower. I took off my paint stained shirt and I ripped my pants down in the disgust of the moment. Unfortunately the super glue soaked through my pants (which I ruined as well) to my leg causing me to rip a section of skin off! ARRRGHHH!!!! In the end I had two ruined garments, an injury to my leg, a hole in the back of my head and a badly red stained arm. The first thing I did was buy a Xacto knife with a square end because I sure as hell wasn't going to rebuild that workbench. Man, this hobby is dangerous. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Re: Chain and RCN vs RAN grey >> Can someone please help. I am looking for a source for some chain small enough to use for 1:700 scale ships. Any suggestions welcome. << John, I use Train Chain. Located in a well stocked Train store are small packets of chain, the smallest of which is black and has dimensions of 1.4mm X 0.9mm. It looked great on the 1/700 Krivak. I cut off the packet header, so I'm not sure of the manufacturer, but it may be Walther. Cost, $5cdn for enough for several ships. Shane, I have a RAN Publicity shot of HMAS Adelaide and the colour appears to be close to RCN grey. I'm aware of the problems with judging from photos so I would never try and say anything definitive. However, I do have a shot of a CDN Destroyer docked beside HMS Amazon and RN grey seems much more darker and greyish than RCN grey. Dunno if that helps, but there it is. Darren Scannell Hi Darren, Thanks for that. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: filler query Try using an automotive glazing putty or Mr Surfacer 500 by Gunze Sangyo. Either type of product will work very well to fill in pin holes and scratches. Take care, Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL NRG member -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Norman C. Samish" Subject: Yamotos, Super Yamotos, and Super Duper Yamotos There's an interesting discussion of the history of the Yamotos, Super Yamotos, and even Super Duper Yamotos, with references, at: http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/history/marshall/military/wwii/Japanese.navy/jap_yamoto_bat.txt The WWI cage-mast Wyoming with six turrets sounds like a great model. Has anybody made one? Norm Samish -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Filler I've been using Bondo automobile glazing putty (not to be confused with the 2 part Bondo Body Repair putty) with good results for a couple of years. I too had problems with Squadron White. The nice thing about the glazing putty is that the solvent does not attack the plastic like Squadron puttys. Thick CA glue also works well, but you need to sand it within an hour before it gets rock hard. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: who said that I agree with Roland Mar about RADM W.A. Lee's quote being a favorite, but all my sources have it thus: "Refer your big boss about Ching Lee; Chinese, catchee? Call off your boys!" John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: play Ball to: Keith Butterley- Thanks to Fritz Koopman who pointed me in the right direction [I was looking at the Marianas campaign :-( ] I now have the details of "Play Ball". At app. 0600 on 8 November 1942, CDR E. R. Durgan (flag of the Command and Fire Support Destroyers at Fedhala) sent the code "Batter Up" indicating that the French batteries at Fedhala had opened fire and the landings were opposed. While there was a certain amount of confusion, either RADM H. Kent Hewitt (COM TF 34) or CAPT Robert Emmett (COM Center Attack Force) called "Play Ball" first and the show was on. Hope this helps Roland Mar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: Chinese junks to: John Rule While the drawings are rudimentary in the extreme, I recommend " When China Ruled the Seas" by Louise Levathes; esp. p. 21 which shows a "treasure ship" From Cheng Ho's fleet alongside a scale and a miniscule Santa Maria. There are also a number of drawings of other types of vessels and in Chapter 4 there is a section translating Chinese measures to English to work with the descriptions. Also see "Eighth Voyage of the Dragon" by Bruce Swanson, especially chapters 3 and 5. I'm partial to Cheng Ho as he was a master mariner long ignored in the West. His 7 voyages [in the early 1400's] were made with expeditions of literally hundreds of vessels [all "junk type"] up to 400+ feet long and with 9 masts. The complements were up to 50,000 sailors and marines. This is not exaggeration, the designs and rosters are in the Imperial archives. His voyages got to the East African coast around current Mozambique before a change in Imperial policy ended them. If you get a project done, I would love to see pictures. Hope this helps Roland Mar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Re: Fun with Catalyzed Putties Thought I would write a short thank you note for the insight provided by the "Putty" article. I realize that most normal people (not that we aren't normal in other respects) would groan over this subject matter but I find it most interesting. I also posted some questions concerning water lines, tying knots and terminating rigging to which there have been quite a few excellent responses. A big thank you to these people also. As a person who has spent the past 35 years working through the priorities connected with being an adult, its good to be able to be able to spend time on a self imposed fun project. Its also most enjoyable to know that there are other people who share this pastime and are willing to help a newcomer with the finer points. With this said, here is today's question: Has anyone built a ship showing battle damage? If so, how did you modify the kit pieces? Pictures? Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Coming Unglued! Paul: Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you! That's got to be one of the best self-incriminating stories ever posted to SMML. I'm still giggling! John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Joel Labow Subject: The First Destroyers by David Lyon Is anyone on the list familiar with this book (published by the Naval Institute Press in 1996)? My specific question is whether or not it covers USN destroyers as well as RN.....any thoughts would be appreciated. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Australian Cruisers Hi Shane I would say that both your ideas are feasible. The Sussex, Australia and Canberra all belonged to the same class and their hulls were the same. Where you need to look out is the superstructures. The bridges do vary and so you will need to make some alterations there. The Australia had didn't have a rear superstructure so that will also have to go, Canberra had a small one. Other changes will be AA positions and fits, masts and radar equipment. I would say its certainly a feasible conversion. The Sydney was the precursor to the Chester and once again the hull is pretty much the same. However, the Sydney carried 6 inch guns as opposed to the 5.5 inch of the Chester which had different shields and I think there were other detail differences. Chris Langtree Thanks Chris. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: JMSR1990@aol.com Subject: 1/700 scale chain in responce to john's querry about chain for 1/700 scale. there are several manufactuer's that make chain in various sizes for the model railroad industry. i have had great luck in finding the appropriate size through this avenue. jim. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: JMSR1990@aol.com Subject: why i build 1/700 scale cost is one reason i build 1/700 scale. even the best resin kits in this scale are only $90-$130. the 1/350 scale kits are just out of my price range; i have a wife and four kids that demand a good chunk of my income. i also prefer 1/700 for its size. i can build hundreds of 1/700 ships and displaying them is not that dificult. anything larger and you run into the problem of where you are going to put them once you are done. the final reason i choose 1/700 over the others is that there are alot more variety of subjects to choose from. i also like to compare the ships apperence's when they are in the same scale; so i tend to stick to building one scale. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: SMAtouche@aol.com Subject: Re: Modern Warship Color Pink Hi. New to the list so not sure if I am responding correctly. But will give it a try. Check web site for Model Expo, Inc. They show three shades of Pink. One used by the US Navy in 1942 the other two by the Royal Navy during WW11 WWW.Modelexpoinc.com Hopes this help. Paul Shay -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Tim Dike Subject: 1/700 K-guns Does anyone have any idea for 1/700 K-Guns and single depth charge holders. I know this is a detail that would be very easy to NOT model but I've already started superglueing rod and wire together and was wondering if there are any PE sets that include this detail. Also I recall seeing a review or an ad for 1/700 DD railing with the netting. Can anyone refresh my memory as to who makes a set like this. mailto:Cadman@kc.net http://www.kc.net/~cadman/ "A still sea never wrought a skillful sailor" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Charlie Jarvis Subject: Enterprise Art Hi, All: In the Time/Life series Epic Of Flight Volume "The Carrier War" there is a painting of Enterprise's SBDs destroying Akagi, by R.G. Smith. I'm not familiar with Mr. Smith's work, but am real interested in purchasing a print. Anybody out there know where I could find more information on this? Thanks: Charlie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Michael Eisenstadt Subject: Salmon Pink Folks: Concerning the query by one of the "odd birds" that frequents this list about the RN color Salmon Pink, I have the following, which is a letter to the editor from Airfix magazine, September 1978, p. 51. Full text follows: With regard to the camouflage scheme shown for HMS Berwick on page 555 of the June issue, the ship was painted in this style in 1941. The colours were dark grey, light grey and the very light colour was salmon pink. The main deck was plain wood from breakwater forward to stern. I spent a whole day painting the port side of the hangar from grey to pink -- what a laugh, pink ships in the RN! F. Fisher, Liverpool End of text. I assume that salmon pink might have been adopted for use while Berwick was on fisheries patrol, perhaps off the American Pacific-Northwest in 1941? The letter is authentic, but the last comment is just a joke (and if you have to explain it, then it really isn't a joke)!!! Yours truly, Michael Eisenstadt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "Melea/Mike Maynard" Subject: Quotes My favorite: SIGHTED SUB, SANK SAME"--- unidentified US Navy pilot Another:"TAKE BUNA OR DON'T COME BACK ALIVE" --- General MacArthur to Army General Eichelberger who relieved General Harding as commander of the New Guinea campagain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Imperial Russian Navy Ship Aurora plans Hello All, I have a Russian friend who just finished a hitch in the US Navy. His favorite subject is Russina navy (go figure) and he has several Russian plans of those ships. However, now that he is over here, his contacts have dried up. He is looking for the plans for the Aurora. Does anyone know where we might get ahold of any? Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Nichimo Y*m*t* @ 1/200 I'm trying to keep my 11 year old son interested in model ship building. He has been satisfied the past few years with building static models that sit on his shelf. But ever since getting a radio controlled truck for Christmas, all I hear now is "frequency this and channels that". Even I have had fun with it. Compared to a ship on a shelf, I'll lose him if I don't find another trick. Can I kill two stones with one bird by, dare I say it, considering building a Yamato? Remember, I am a dedicated pre-dreadnought enthusiast. But I enjoy doing things with the boys, too. There's a nice lake about 2 lots down the road. I want to do a navy ship as compared to a speed boat that I could buy for him (us?) at Radio Shack. Looking around, I saw a reference to a Nichimo Yamato @ 1/200. That would be about 50"+ long, I think! Can the Nichimo Yamato be built into a radio controlled model without destroying the hull details at the stern? How is the superstructure detail? At this point, I don't see the point in doing a whole lot of detail in something the boys are going to put in a wagon and carry down the street. I know there are a lot of Y*****aholics out there. Step 1 of 12 is admitting it! Have any of you done this project before? Thanks for any info, Roger Clemens Hinsdale, Illinois -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "Joe Damato" Subject: Answering "Feed" Cool name! You were wondering why 1/700 scale is usually done waterline and the other scales full hull? I guess the main reason is that when 1/700 got started in the early 70's/late 60's all the kits were waterline. Revell fit the box and Airfix 1/600 were full hull, but never really took off..it's a shame, cause I personally think 1/600 is much easier to scratch than 700. I guess Mike Bishop (I'm sure I'll get corrected on this one) of MB Models really got the ball rolling on 350 scale and built only full hull. The ship modeling community is split on that scale as to whether full hull or waterline is acceptable. Being a manufacturer of both scales I can tell you that I would rather do waterline then full hull. My personal tastes run to showing the ship in it's natural elements ie water than with a couple of brass rods stuck up its keel! I've been asked to make my sub hulls full hull, but I can't figure out how to keep them from rolling over..any suggestions out there. Like any other hobby, someone makes a move and everyone seems to follow nose to tail...just look at the Verlindenizing of the hobby. I don't care what anyone says, any plane captain who let his f-14 look like what is acceptable on the contest circuit would have his brass boys handed to him by the skipper. Hope this didn't muddy the waters for you. Welcome to the hobby! Joe Damato JAG Collective, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Loren Perry Subject: To all resin kit makers from Gold Medal Models Gold Medal Models is about to release several new photoetched detail sets in 1/700 and 1/350 scales, one of which is a 1/700 set of 3-D relief-etched watertight doors, hatches, fire hose racks, and life rings. This particular set has passed the prototype stage and is about to enter full production with release slated for the middle of next month. A mini-review of this set appeared in yesterday's SMML. Its retail price will be $5.00 plus $1 postage. We're officially announcing here that ANY resin ship kit manufacturer, foreign and domestic, wishing to incorporate GMM's doors and other fittings into their master patterns have our full and unrestricted permission to do so at no cost other than the purchase price of the fittings set itself. There will be no expectation of additional payments and/or royalties in any form. This offer is being provided as our way of trying to help improve EVERY kit maker's product to the highest possible level and to standardize the appearance of common fittings among the various manufacturers. The same offer goes for our ladders, bridge window frames, and any other photoetched GMM fittings in any scale we offer that may be useful in the making of master patterns for resin kit manufacturing. We know that a number of kit makers have used our fittings for this purpose in the past and we're honored that they would do so. Our announcement today is intended to remove any doubt in the minds of the kit makers as to where we stand on the issue. They ALL have our blessing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Ken Durling" Subject: NATS Trophy Sponsorship Hi y'all - I just thought you guys 'n gals would be pleased to know that I have recieved confirmation that we got both of our first choices for trophy sponsorship at the IPMS Nationals. By vote at the last meeting we decided that we sponsor two trophies - one in aircraft and one in ships. Since the question of the elimination of the vacuform category is being discussed, we elected to sponsor category 179 IIRC) the 1/59 and larger vacuform category - the application for which I accompanied with a statement that we were doing so to express our support for NOT eliminating the category. We got this one. The other category which was our first choice was No.400 - Battleships, Cruisers and Light Cruisers 1/401 and smaller. We got this one too! The sponsorship attribution will read: Sponsored by IPMS/USS Hornet, Alameda, CA I have also requested information about sponsoring a Special Award, which we didn't discuss, but I think you would approve - an Award for "Best Doolittle Aircraft." The B-25's are an obvious choice, but there are tons of other possibilities. I will let you know when they inform me of what would be involved, and if any of you are interested in sharing the cost with me, please let me know. Ken Durling, Pres. IPMS/USS Hornet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume