Subject: SMML VOL 830 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 01:01:30 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Whats new at the Naval Historical Center 2: Adm. Scheer is on the prowl... 3: Cross over releases 4: 1/700 Chain 5: R/C for 1/350 Yamato 6: Victorious 7: Re: Mobile Crane on CVs and Heads Up 8: Ted Blahnik photo's 9: Re: HMAS CANBERRA and AUSTRALIA 10: 1/700 chain - follow-up 11: Finnish Navy references 12: Re: Why 1/700 13: Removing Paint from 1:1250 Ships 14: Belated contribution to the Yamato references and a gentle KGv reminder 15: 700 or 350? Reply from the bunker... 16: HMS Victorious 1941-43 17: HMS Tiger 18: HELLENIC NAVY SHIP G. AVEROFF 19: Filler 20: Working Radar 21: Re: Canberra 22: Re: Schwabenland 23: Divebomber & Thirty Seconds over.. Australia 24: Dreadnought kits 25: Loren Perry's Photoetch -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: FOR SALE --- SHIP PLANS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Whats new at the Naval Historical Center Good Morning SMMLies The US Naval Historical Center has posted a new photo series on the USS Lexington (CV-2) including photos of her from 1929 until her loss at the Battle of the Coaral Sea in May '42. Another part of the series includes some drawings, newspaper clips, and photos of the Lexington Class battlecruiser (CC-1). One of the photos of the Lex was taken off San Diego in October 1942 and shows the False Bow Wave camoflage measure particularly well. Okay Paint Guys, is that the Sea Blue paint which chalked so badly? Is that supposed to be a green inside the white foam line? Check the link to the top of the whats new page at: http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/whatsnew.htm Ed Mansfield, TX Congratulations to the Kiwis for their America's Cup wins. Black Magic put on a good show. The Prada-Italy team sure had more than their share of bad luck with the crewman getting his head split open and then having to stop and put a man over the side to remove whatever was fouling the keel. I thought keel-hauling was reserved for the loosing skipper ;-> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Adm. Scheer is on the prowl... >> PS: Yohan, how are you getting along with your late war Scheer?, it is a subject I want to do in the not to distant future. << I finally got around to finishing the Scheer this weekend and was very pleased with the results. I was actually hoping to photograph the whole project and post a short article somewhere, but couldn't get my hands on a suitable camera so ended up diving into it without any visual record of my progress. Basically (and briefly), this is what I did... I started with the Fujimi 1/700 Scheer kit and a set of plans I picked up from the Floating Drydock. After assembling the hull, I altered the bow with an xacto knife and a file as the rebuilt Scheer had her anchors stored on the deck rather than on the sides of the hull. I gouged out the two identations at the bow (anyone know the real term for these?) and plugged up the holes in the side of the hull. Most of the scratchbuilding had to do with the rebuilt forward superstructure. I used the first level of the included tower as a starting point, and build the rest of the platforms and the tower from styrene card and tubing. The top level of the tower has a challanging shape required some small pieces of plastic tube and alot of putty and sanding to obtain the correct look. I placed the original kit director on top and added the radar hut and mattress. The large funnel cap was created from a carefully measured strip of plastic card that was bent into a cylinder to fit over the original funnel. After it was glued on top, it was shaped with a knife and a file. There is a little box shaped structure just aft of the base of the funnel (which I'm not sure what it exacly was) which was also added from styrene. One of the airplane cranes was used, the hole for the other being plugged. The kit's original rear superstructure was used with only the addition of the radar installations on the director. The AA installations on the turret tops were made with plastic strips, the guns themselves being made from two Skywave IJN 25mm twin mounts joined together and turned 90 degrees on their sides. The single 20mm guns on top of forward superstructure, funnel platform, bow and stern are from IJN 25mm single mounts. The simple mainmast was scratchbuilt from plastic rod. The heavy AA as well as ship's boats were used as is from the kit. I painted the Scheer in a striking light/dark grey 'zebra' camo pattern as depicted in one of the photos in Whitley's 'Battleships of WWII'. Overall, a very fun project. While I'm sure a real KM expert could pick through and find flaws in my converted Scheer, it's close enough for me. I am hoping to borrow a digital camera from work and snapping a couple of photos sometime. I also want to take a few of all three of my Panzerschiffs (sp?) next to each other (a 1930's Deutchesland, a River Platte Adm. Graf Spee, and the 1944 Adm. Scheer). An interesting comparison at the development of this unique class of ships. I really enjoy these conversion projects and am always looking for more to do...maybe an L/M class DD from either a Matchbox Kelly or a Skywave/Tamiya O class (which is closer?) Yohan Fernando Hi Yohan, If no-one has spoken up for the article, it would be welcome on the SMML site. As for the L/M class DD, iirc, the Kelly would be a better bet. If I'm wrong, there'll be a queue a mile long to correct me ;-). Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Joe Damato" Subject: Cross over releases James Johnson was talking about why manufactures duplicate each other..Some of it is competition and "mine will be better than yours" bantering. Some of it is just correcting a model that is really bad. In our case, there is already a Long Beach in 1/700 scale resin out there, but in all honesty, it suffers from inaccuracy and poor pattern making by today's standards. Here's where the market place really benefits the consumer. Other instances like the recent Hood WEM/Commanders shoot out is confusing. I'm not sure who planned the release first but it grew into a real spitting match of who's kit is the best. Having seen both, I felt the WEM kit to be better all around, but if you were going for value, the Commander's kit was a bit more affordable. Again, both companies have their own strategies and marketing plans and their own fan clubs. For the most part resin companies have the same mentality...we are looking to provide the most accurate kit of a particular subject. This is, again, great for the consumer, but it is a double edged sword. Witness the Blue Water Navy Enterprise/Hornet kits. Here you have one of the most accurate models out there, but who can afford it. Knowing the cost of resin, molds and brass, a lot of what you are paying for is the time and effort it took to pull all that together plus the expected demand. We all must weigh whether we want to sell a lot of kits for a moderate price or sell a few with an enormous profit margin. Having been involved with JSP where the latter was true, you tend to piss a lot of people off with your pricing and loose customers. You also open yourself to competition. Again knowing what an acceptable model of the Enterprise/Hornet would cost to produce, and having done large models before, It would be easy to cut the going price in half. You have to make a decision as to whether or not you want to make your money selling a lot of models or few. This is in no way to criticize Mike or his company..He has one hell of a model there and in my book earns any and all complements for it. In the short run models that cost a mortgage payment do little to get more people involved in the hobby. If they see a subject they like, can't afford it, then you loose them for the follow up orders. The more people build, the more see what they are doing and get interested in the hobby which equals increase sales. I guess I have a Wal-Mart mentality. Cross over is going to happen, and I guess I just feel lucky that there is the choice that's out there. Go back 10 years and your options were limited. Thank goodness for the Mike's, Steve's, Caroline's and Ted's of the world (and all the other guys)...we've got a lot to choose from. Joe Damato JAG Collective Ps. Jim Shirley Productions fell apart not because of outside forces or an inability to get subcontracted work...the guys did all their pattern making (less that bought from Naval Works) mold making and metal casting in house. Brass was done by an outside vendor. The problem was in a lack of heart and motivation due to problems beyond the staff's control. Plus they had a business to run and little time for the ships. Thank goodness for that defeat...without it I could have never started JAG. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Alan Lindstrom Subject: 1/700 Chain ModelExpo has Model Shipways chain that is 42 links per inch. Anyone know if that is small enough for 1/700 scale? Alan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Loren Perry Subject: R/C for 1/350 Yamato So you can't put R/C in a 1/350 scale Tamiya Yamato, eh? It seems that the state of radio control as it applies to scale model ships has regressed since the early 1980's when I was active in it. Back then (almost 20 years ago!) many of us in that hobby were routinely building 12 inch long Lindberg tugs with full R/C capability. In my case, I even incorporated a remote controlled release mechanism in one of my two harbor tugs, allowing the operator to drop off a scale barge at a pier on command. The other tug (a kit-bashed Navy design) employed a set of hooks and loops to allowed me to pick up or drop off a scale ammunition barge while towing it "side saddle" as per the prototype. I also built a 19 inch long Revell "Fire Fighter" fireboat kit with dual throttle control, twin rudders, electronic siren, and water pump serving six of the scale monitors (duplicated in scale using brass tubing( which could pump water about two feet away, or about 175 scale feet. All operational functions were completely hidden, including the on/off switch so no compromises in scale appearance were necessary. These models appeared regularly in Scale Ship Modeler magazine, Model Ship Builder, Ships in Scale, and at R/C regattas all over the U.S. back in the early to mid 1980's. A good Navy friend of mine scratchbuilt an R/C LCM in 1/96 scale which made it about six inches long. It was fully functional with independent twin screw propulsion and fully controllable speeds on both shafts. Several other modelers built R/C tugs about the same size. 1/96 scale was a favorite which allowed the harbor tugs and small craft to interact with same-scale warships. Much of this activity took place in Southern California, New York, Florida, and throughout the upper midwest. R/Cing a 1/350 Yamato over two feet long? Duck soup. No-brainer. Not even a challlenge - been there, done that, over and over. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Victorious Hi Petr The Aircraft Carrier Victorious (Ross Watton, Anatomy of the Ship series) has nice representations of both sides of the scheme and photos of the deck. Rather unsportingly it lists the colours as light grey, mid grey, dark grey and blue (AP507C, 507B, 507A and possibly B5). Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Mobile Crane on CVs and Heads Up The mobile crane on USN CVs in WW2 was known as "Tillie the Toiler." For those of you in the UK thinking about watching "Dive Bomber", be advised to have your VCRs ready to tape. This movie is in beautiful color (I have a copy), and if you want to see what the prewar USN looked like in #5 Standard Navy Gray with mahogany-stained flight decks, and multicolored aircraft, you'll see it here. Nice shots of ENTERPRISE and one of the LEXINGTONs (haven't watched my copy in a while...). John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From Tim Dike Subject: Ted Blahnik photo's In the book "Third Savo, Battle of Guadalcanal" by Turner the cover shows a picture of the USS DD-459 Laffey coming alongside a cruiser? This photo is also on page 66 and 67, the next page show the USS Monssen DD-436 also coming along side a ship definitely a cruiser this time. Does anyone one familiar with these photos know if they are both attributed to Ted Blahnik and where I could obtain a copy of that print (DD-436)? Or know some of the background as to when and where it was taken? mailto:Cadman@kc.net http://www.kc.net/~cadman/ "A still sea never wrought a skillful sailor" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: HMAS CANBERRA and AUSTRALIA Further to comments by others. anyone attempting a conversion from the RN KENT Class should be aware that the funnel height on the Australian ships was three feet higher than the RN versions. The ships were designed with short funnels but when the first to be completed underwent trials with these there was considerable smoke interference aft particularly with the control position. The decision was taken to raise the funnels by fifteen feet on RN ships while the RAN requested eighteen feet. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Alan Lindstrom Subject: 1/700 chain - follow-up See my other post on this subject. In 1/700, chain that has 42 links per inch would scale out to 16.7 inches per link. Is that reasonable for the anchor chain on a battleship or cruiser? Is there a smaller size chain available? Alan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Clifford Franklin Subject: Finnish Navy references There are a number of books out there on the Finnish Navy in WW2, most of them published in Finland! The best I have come across are: "Suomen Laivasto Sodassa 1939-1945" by K Keskinen and J Mantykoski, published by Tietoteos, 1991. An excellent photographic reference on all the ships used by Finland during WW2, providing multiple views of the different types of camouflage used. Captions are in Finnish and English, with the text in Finnish with an English summary. Also includes tables of Soviet and German vessels which operated off Finland. "Leijonalippa Merella" by Visa Auvinen, published by Etela-Suomen Kustannus Oy, 1980. Contains a small number of photos with the text and captions in Finnish only. However, it does have a couple of nice builders plans (incomplete) of the armoured ships and a minesweeper. "Naval Warfare in the Baltic, 1939-1945" by C.W. Koburger Jnr, published by Praeger, 1994. Only a couple of photos, but a well written and researched history in English. I don't know how available these books are, as I obtained my copies through interlibrary loan. Hope this helps you. cheers Cliff Franklin New Zealand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Mike Dunn" Subject: Re: Why 1/700 Tim, I must take issue with your generalisations......... I like the small scales (1/600 & 1/700) because they ARE small......more of a challenge, and that's why I add photo-etch to them......it makes modelling on such a tiny scale more difficult, and challenging. Speedy building? Ask Shane!!!!! I've been working on a 1/600 Type 21 for months......! Sure, I could (and am planning to) build 1/350 or similar......but being larger, the amount of challenge is less - granted, off-set by the increase in the number of parts. And as for scratch-building........ I'm also working on a semi-scale Leander class frigate (hear that Shane? NOT a Type 12...! A LEANDER !) that's about 30 inches long - and building this working model (yup, she'll have her own power) from plans.........And I'm looking at building a diorama with some WEM stuff to go with waterline kits......that'll require scratch-building as well........ So - like you, I fit into none of the categories....and I would suspect that a lot of those on the List who build, as oppose to read (for various reasons), will. No need to head for the bunker, though....plenty of room out here for us all :-) Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Bill Rowe Subject: Removing Paint from 1:1250 Ships Some of my Neptun models have black paint on their depth charges and aluminum radar antennae (antennas ?), touches of inaccurcy. Two Hais need a major availbaility. Commercial paint stripper isn't practical for removing highlights, so I tried acetone. First with the Hai Utah, seemed reasonable to try things on her. It worked beautifully. Then I tried the Porter's depth charges. Paint came off the tops, but there are crevices that are still black. The aluminum came off the raised part of the radars from the Porter and South Dakota, and left a slight wash in the indents. The affect is a more open antenna. Bill Rowe D.C. Metro area, where Summer is running trials -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: Belated contribution to the Yamato references and a gentle KGv reminder A year ago or so I ordered a book from HobbyLink Japan called Super Illustration Battleship Yamato, book number 414., and it cost 2000 yens. The book includes only four photos of the ship - fairly superficial photos. The real quality of the book lies in the illustrations - covering the Yamato at the earliest and latest configurations in greater and greater detail. The book starts with plan and side views covering the initial, late '44 refit and final configuration. Following this, are section views of the ship. Then, the ship is broken down into isometric sections from bow to stern, and the various fittings from main gun turrets to paravanes are shown in isolated detail. This is the only reference I have used to detail and correct (to some extent) my own Yamato, and the price was reasonable. It may still be available from HLJ, so give them a try. Some times they take a long time to respond, but I'm sure they don't get a kick out of it. Also, I would like to ask my question again of what needs to be done to correctly portray the Tamiya 1:350 King George V in the attractive two tone blue and two tone grey camouflage. Hazarding a guess, I'd think the work to be of a minor nature like removing or adding AA and some radars - right? Just shooting in the dark.... Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Tim Perry" Subject: 700 or 350? Reply from the bunker... Thanks Mike Settle, Martin and Shorty! You all saw what I was getting at! And apologies to Dave GrafSpee34, but I think the phrase is 'Hook, line and sinker'..... Of course there are fantastic modellers who work in every scale, and collectors who collect in every scale! I think there is a hint of truth in what I wrote however, and that is based on over 35 years in the model hobby, viewed from both sides of the traders table. Even so, I am pleased that at least three SMMLers took my comments in the spirit they were intended! Ship model kits are unusual though in that so many 'weird' scales still exist, and I am sure this is because naval models have been made in much smaller volumes than aircraft or tanks, etc. 700th, only became popular after the Japanese Big Four' released all those Japanese Imperial Navy subjects, plus a few others, in the 1970s an 80's. The sheer number of kits from this venture 'imposed' 1:700 as a standard; I can see no other reason, its a swine to work out in metric or imperial measures! The other scales are either 'Imperial' such as 1:600, 1:96, 1:192, where fractions of feet and inches decide, or they are old kits hanging on from the days of 'fit the box'. AFVs and Aviation subjects were also made in 'oddball' scales, but all of these subjects will have been replaced, some many times over, by more modern kits. The sheer volume of these markets allowed subjects to be repeated, improved, and standardised in scale. Nowadays it would be virtually impossible to release a new AFV kit if it was not in 1:35, at least if you expected sales of more than a couple of hundreds. It is a measure of the lack of new injection moulded kits, even in the now accepted standard scales, that so many older moulds are still being used. There just isn't the volume of sales to tempt the manufacturers to retool and take the chance to improve things, and perhaps standardise on the now accepted scales. This has a bearing on the subjects chosen by the so-called 'Cottage' industries (ABSOLUTELY no offence intended by that remark, by the way! Remember, I was one once myself, we even had roses over the front door...) They have the advantage of appealing directly to an enthusiast market, no 'Little Johnny' factor to be accounted for, but against that the volume of sales is microscopic. (That said, now Little Johnny spends most of his time blasting, hacking and slashing on his PlayStation and not glueing plastic together, the Tamiyas and Hasegawas of this world are paying much more attention to the enthusiast, prices are reflecting the increased quality and more significantly, the smaller volume and life span of a kit.) But there was only one Battle Cruiser called HMS Hood. 20 kit manufactures could have a 'Spitfire' in their ranges, and they could all be different variants; let alone different air forces, squadrons, etc. It is inevitable that duplication of important, famous vessels occurs, and equally inevitable that the more obscure subjects will be avoided. Sure, some strange choices will surface because the proprietor took a shine to a particular design and released it anyway, but that is really no way to run a successful business! Such indulgences will always have to be carried by the more financially viable subjects. Sorry, I am waffling on. But there is an answer to this conundrum! Buy the kits that do appear, if only to convince the manufacturers there is a market in ship models. It is the only language they understand. But, If the kit of your dreams does not exist, and shows no sign of appearing in plastic, or resin come to that, scratchbuild your own models! Revel (sic) in the freedom to model what you want, in whatever scale you want, whenever you want, in whatever materials you want! Remember, you are all individuals! Don't let anyone tell you what to do! Do your own thing! Glad I got that off my chest, See some of you at Yeovilton this weekend! Tim PS Thanks Colin for the Gen on Divebomber! Fantastic!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: HMS Victorious 1941-43 The back cover of the Anatomy of the Ship book on Victorious (Ross Watton) has a starboard side painting of the scheme and the book itself contains several photos of it, although a certain amount of interpretation would be required. The colours are identified only as 'four shades of grey'. From a quick look at Alan Raven's series in Plastic Ship Modeler (notably 1997/1), this would seem to be the first of the Admiralty disruptive schemes and I would hazard a guess at the colours being from the ranges AP507A, B or C, and MS1,2 4 and 4a (on the basis that they are stated as being greys and the others used in that scheme were more green and/or blue). Sorry I can't be of more help but this may help as a starting point. Perhaps the forthcoming WR Press tome will have more on the subject? Robert Lockie Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: HMS Tiger Airfix Magazine March 1978 had an article on converting the Airfix Tiger kit (which I believe was also of the helicopter conversion) to the Fiji, Swiftsure and gun-armed Tiger classes, with plans, text and a few photos. It is only four pages so I could probably copy it for you. Robert Lockie Cambridge UK "If it's fun, you're probably not trying hard enough!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: HGYL@aol.com Subject: HELLENIC NAVY SHIP G. AVEROFF I can't remember from whom but there were some postings on this list a couple of months back regarding the preserved Greek ship G. Averoff. I was in Athens the week before last and had the opportunity of going on board her in Faliron Bay just outside Athens. I had first seen her in 1968 when she was moored at Poros (I think, it might have been Salamis but in any case it was one of the islands close to Athens) and had seen her several times subsequently in the course of various visits to Athens over the years after she had been moved to Faliron but this was the first oportunity I had had to board her. Superb is insufficient a word to describe the restoration work which has been done. It is stunning. She ranks with Victory, Warrior and Constitution in terms of quality of restoration and current maintenance ( and certainly also in terms of national pride). If anyone who is connected with her is a reader of this list I salute you. Harold Lincoln -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "James Kloek" Subject: Filler I use 3M Blue Acryl auto body filler putty. It is readily available in the US at auto parts stores. The trick I learned from my colleagues my local IPMS chapter is to thin it with acetone before application. The consistency after thinning can be anything from that of heavy cream to almost water, depending on the size of the seam or hole to be filled. Simply apply the thinned putty with an old paint brush, and let it flow into the seam. You may have to apply more than once, but it gets the putty into the seam, and if you are careful, there is very little that ends up not in the seam. You can even clean up and smooth the filled areas with a Q-tip dipped in acetone (but be cautious when doing this with polystyrene) and avoid a lot of sanding. Since the auto body putty was designed to sand smooth and take a gloss finish, it ends up being undetectable under paint. I've used CA glue to fill seams too, but as others have said, you have to catch it at the right degree of hardness to sand it out. Too soon, and you have goo, too late and you have granite. The thinned putty flows into seams just as well, and is much more forgiving about final finishing. When using acetone, you have to have good ventilation and be away from open flames, but since it is the main ingredient in nail polish remover it is not particularly toxic. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Andy Hampa Subject: Working Radar Hello All, About a year I built a 1:125 Fletcher destroyer (Lindberg kit converted to R/C). Every time I look at it I find more things to do to it. My wife was kind enough to let me display it in the china hutch in the dining room (seeing as how we have no china) so I dream up new projects on a daly basis. Well the other day I had an idea for a rotating radar antenna using a radio antenna for the mast. Then running a stout wire from a motor, up through the mast, to the radar. Also the mast could double as the antenna for the R/C radio. I have two simple questions though. One, can anyone tell me the diameter of a destroyer mast(the mast on the model is way too big for comparison), and two, if I use the mast as the antenna and paint it, will the paint interfere with reception? Has anyone tried this. Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated. Thanks, Andy Hampa -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Canberra I'd like to thank those who have posted about HMAS Canberra modeling. Although I tend to concentrate most of my studies and efforts on USN ships, I've always thought the lines of the County cl ships were rather fetching, and have considered doing a Canberra (along with a Dido cl Argonaut, a HMAS Sydney, and a HMS Belfast) at some point down the line. Go Navy! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: Schwabenland >> Schwabenland was an airplane tender. See this detailed web site for more Flugzeugtender http://www.home4.net.inet.tele.dk/mholm/catapult.htm << hi; Please try again. This URL doesn`t work. Thanks Chuck Duggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: Divebomber & Thirty Seconds over.. Australia Hi you all.. Colin's message, about the movie Divebomber being on TV in the UK, prompted me to check cable guide. For anyone in Australia with cable the movies 'Divebomber' and 'Thirty Seconds over Tokyo' are on channel FX (32) this Saturday 26th February. Lock and load the video.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Dreadnought kits I'm still catching up on the pile of electrons that resolve themselves into back-logged email, that accumulated while I was on vacation. In answer to John Impenna's question, there is also a card model of Dreadnought in 1:250 that is available from Paper Models International for about $20.00 US. www.papermodels.net Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Loren Perry's Photoetch Smart thinking Loren, you do great work. Keep em coming. Keith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: CokerRE@aol.com Subject: FOR SALE --- SHIP PLANS SMS Viribus Unitis circa 1916 by Prasky 1/200 with hull line $35 SMS Koenig 1916 by Trenk 1/200 complete $40 SMS Von Der Tann 1916 by Trenk 1/200 complete $40 CruiserPrinz Eugen 1944 by Mrva 1/200 with plans for photo etched details $40 Marine Arsenal Books in German Glugzeugtrager Graf Zeppelin by S. Breyer $25. Schulkreuzer Emden by S. Breyer $25. please reply off list to PC Coker at cokerre@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume