Subject: SMML VOL 833 Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:52:56 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Off Topic - Visiting the UK 2: Re: Quotes 3: Re: Dyslexia and the Lex 4: Re: Ship camouflage website 5: Model Expo Paints 6: Re: 1/96 PE radar 7: Seeking Enlightenment 8: warship hulls... 9: JAG models 10: Re: Iron Shipwright instructions 11: Heian Maru 12: Rodney 13: Re: 1/96 FFG-7 query 14: Re: New ISW Four Stacker 15: Zenith Books 16: Taiwanese Navy 17: Re: Heian Maru 18: Re: Aircraft on Lexington 19: Re: New Hasegawa 1/700 Heian Maru 20: Re: New Hasegawa 1/700 Heian Maru 21: One or two keys? 22: Re: ISW 4-piper 23: Re: Heian maru 24: Royal Navy Semaphore Flags 25: Re: New Hasegawa 1/700 Heian Maru 26: Re: L/M Class destroyers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: from W R PRESS inc, reference Flower CLass Corvettes 2: 1/700 USS Wichita from Classic Warships 3: Classic Warships New Books 4: Re: Model Expo Paints -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Stuart Batchelor" Subject: Off Topic - Visiting the UK This is sort of a bad news/good news thing. The bad news is I will not be able to make the SMMLiecon this May. The reason I won't make it is the good news, for I'll be traveling to the UK in the middle to late part of May. I know some of the more obvious places to visit, The IWM, HMS Belfast, RAF Duxford, Greenwich, Portsmouth, Bovington, etc. If we can work it, we also plan on doing the Chunnel and going to Normandy, Verdun, Waterloo, etc. The only place and time that is somewhat set is being in London during the week of May 22 - 27. What I am asking for is suggestions on places to visit. This trip is with my parents for the intention of hitting battlefields, military museums (and some stamp show in London for the business deduction) and the like. Any help out there? If Shane doesn't mind, you can post replies to SMML, or directly to me at msb2@hotmail.com TIA Stuart Batchelor Norman, Oklahoma -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: Re: Quotes It's way way off topic, but I preferred the version of Patton's comment in the movie: "Let the other poor dumb b*st***d die for his country". Doubt he ever said it, but it really summarized the guy for me. Mark Doremus Eden Prairie, MN where we're giving the fog horns a rest after 2 1/2 days. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: Dyslexia and the Lex >> The picture was taken in October 1941 and NOT October 1942. << >> My keyboard has a one key next to the two key. Does any one have one which is diferent? ;-> << Next to my one key is the "Correct Ed Grune" Key....... John R. Sheridan What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 The last place on earth I would look for the Lumber Cartel(tm) is http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: Ship camouflage website >> In the midst of all the hoopla and hooray on SMML, somebody ought to take time out to thank Snyder, Short and Sheridan for putting this site together. For modellers of the U.S. Navy in WWII, it is already indespensible. So, three cheers and a tiger, gentlemen, and may your work be an example to the rest of us. << Thank-you for the kind words. BTW, We have a lot more data to add to the site so stay tuned ! John R. Sheridan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: BEN8800@aol.com Subject: Model Expo Paints Model Expos Historic Maine paints are manufactured by a local paint company. Yes they are rather thick for airbrushing and must be thinned. Thinning with water is a no no. Use alcohol. Their ad says thin with water but thats mostly for brushing. Model Expo bottles the paint at their company. They would be available from any hobby shop that decides to carry them, just like their Model Shipways kits. Ben -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Re: 1/96 PE radar Scale Shipyard took over (and improved and extended) the old Plake Enterprise line of 1/96 PE. I can attest from experience that the SPS-49 and SPS-10 radars, at least, are wonderfull! If Loren has done 1/96 PE, I have no doubt (having experience with his 1/350 stuff) that it would be excellent, too. Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Ross Bruce-QBR000 Subject: Seeking Enlightenment Okay, I spent the better part of 2 hours last night cutting masks (for one side only!!) so that I could spray the second color on the hull of my 1/350 DD's measure 12 splotches. This effort was accompanied by much eye-rolling from the wife and "Dad you're beginning to scare us" from the kids. Anyone got an easier solution to doing this. And just for your amusement, I probably shouldn't admit to this, but when I did my last check prior to applying the paint I discovered that I had cut the masks for the wrong color!! So now I get to start the whole @#%$*# process over. Help Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Don Carner" Subject: warship hulls... Ahoy! Can anyone assist me in locating a fiberglass or polycarbonate hull in 1/8th scale for a New Orleans-class cruiser? Hopefully if available commercially, they would be gel-coated? I have a carbon-fiber road bike to unload in order to finance this project. Any interested parties in a 58cm IBOC Mongoose with Spinergy Rev-X rims, drop me a line. I am specifically interested in building CA-38 in 1944 configuration. Any literature, guidance or other advice would be appreciated! I plan ultimately to have a multi-channel RC control system, complete with bugle calls for air attack and general qtrs. Thanx in advance! Don, "what-am-I-getting-myself-into-here" Carner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Ralph Batykefer" Subject: JAG models With the latest thread from FSM, and now SMML, I saw that there was nothing from JAG Collective stating projected kits or projects. It is dangerous to say what a company is going to put out because of those of us consistently bothering the company for the available date, but I really would like to hear what is coming out. I know they will have a website soon and I am trying to wait patiently. Does anyone anything know about the following projects: First, what is included with the Dockside Crane kit? Is it a modern crane or one from WWII. Is there a picture available of the kit somewhere? I model primarily modern naval projects and am thinking of some amphib & shipbuilding dioramas. Second, is the LST the modern (just retired) amphib? About what will the price range be? Will it include modern armor with it? Does anyone know when it will be available? Third, I heard a rumor that JAG has plans to build a USS Wasp LHD-1? I am wondering when it will be available and how much I need to save. I saw on the new shiplist that Revell of Germany is coming out with one, but I doubt it will be very detailed or accurate (hopefully not as bad as the Revell USS Tarawa). Thanks, Ralph -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Iron Shipwright instructions >> The instructions draw a D. They have a parts inventory - but the instructions are not good at all. Overall, I'd grade the kit a B-. Be prepared to get good secondary reference for the kit. << I have only built one IS kit and I was wondering if anyone else felt the same way about their instructions. I have been working on the IS Hood for some time and I have notices some real deficiencies in the instructions. I have several complaints about them but my number one criticism is the lack of any overall drawings. These drawings would come in very handy to use as a guide when placing, and adjusting the mast heights. I also noticed several circle that were supposed to contain PE numbers but were left blank. Also, there is mount of some kind that is mounted on top of the rear forward turret but no mention is mad as to what goes there. In short, if I didn't have the NIP book on the HMS Hood, it would have been a lot tougher to build the model. Please don't take this as a slam on IS. I also don't know if this is a common problem with all their instructions. I only speak for the model I've been building. It's intended as constructive criticism. I'll continue to buy their products, but I do hope they improve their instructions on future kits. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Heian Maru Hi Yohan Yes it is a sub tender - it was originally a merchant ship built 1930. Dimensions L 511.5 W 66 D 41 Tonnage 11616. She was lost 17.2.44 but I don't have the cause. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Rodney Hi Derek Rodney carried an admiralty disruptive scheme. The wonderful thing is that this is the only camouflage scheme she ever carried. Man O' War 3 (Battleships Rodney and Nelson) has very good details of the pattern. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Kevin Wenker Subject: Re: 1/96 FFG-7 query >> Where can I get a good 1/96 SPS 49 Radar? What size lifeboats and liferafts are used by FFG-7 class frigates? Is there a book published on the FiG, and if so where can I get a copy? << Contact Lee Upshaw at the Scale Shipyard - he handles all that and has a whole package of resin parts and photoetch (including radar) for the Perry. I have one about 50% finished for RC - Lee is a good guy to work with and fantastic quality hulls and parts. I have no interest in the Scale Shipyard other than being a very satisfied and long term customer. Kevin Wenker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: New ISW Four Stacker Ed - My reaction to the kit (arrived yesterday) is very much along the same lines as yours. I'm a sucker for those old four-stackers. It's comparable to the Gulfstream WARD (now being retooled by Classic Warships) and the former Accurate Image Models ROPER APD conversion. The small resin parts in the Gulfstream model were much less plagued with flash and resin bubbles. The gun barrels in the ISW kit were mostly warped and may have to be replaced with plastic/brass rod. That said, it's pretty nice. >> The full hull is molded in an olive green resin. It came wrapped in bubble wrap. The casting stub is still attached. The lower hull has some very fine - translucent bilge keels. One is broken from the hull for about an inch. << My hull was in tan resin. Needs to be washed with soap and warm water to remove mold release agent or else the paint won't adhere. Had no damage to the bilge keels. Life rafts were solid green resin in my kit -- these would have been a lot better with photoetched bottoms like the Gulfstream kit had. >> The topside fittings come in a zip-lock bag. They're a tan resin. I haven't figured which parts break-down goes with what configuration yet. << One of the problems with all ISW kits is comparatively poor instruction sheets. As an example, for WARD, parts #21 and 22 aren't identified at all on the sheet. >> The etched brass fret is nicely done. Along with the rails, it has various towers and mast yardarms. I would have liked to seen the wireless radio spreaders too. << Almost identical to the Gulfstream WARD, except different searchlight platforms are provided. Well made. >> The first sheet is a parts break-down for each of the three configurations. That's good - I can inventory the parts and see whats there and what might be missing. << So far I think there are no missing parts and a few extras were included in my box -- a total of 5 triple torpedo tubes and maybe an extra 3" or 4" gun. Only two small boats are included, whereas pre-war four pipers carried three. Nothing in the instructions about how many are needed for each ship. >> The next three sheets are exploded drawings. They're vague on exact locations. There is a scrap view of the bridge and fore mast - saying that it is drawn to correct scale to build the fore mast - however there is no such drawing for the aft mast. ISW - you need to work on your instructions. << Absolutely! They don't tell you which version gets which set of stacks. The ones in the instruction sheet are all identically drawn, but the two sets are markedly different. Some history on how the ships evolved over time would've been nice, too. The kit can be built as DECATUR, BAINBRIDGE, or WARD, but the periods (assumed to be from pre-WW2 to 1942-43) are not addressed. Fortunately, I have most of the available reference books on the four-stackers or can get them at the library. I might build this one as a lend-lease "TOWN" class ship in British or Canadian service. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Zenith Books Some titles of possible interest to ship fans in the new Zenith Books catalog (also online at www.motorbooks.com): "The Cold War at Sea: An Illustrated History", by Bonner "USS Los Angeles (CA-135): Cold War Sentinel", by Beigel "Submarine Action", by Kemp "Midget Submarines of the Second World War", by Kemp "American & British Aircraft Carrier Development 1919-1941", by Hone, Friedman, and Mandeles "Dark Sky, Black Sea: Aircraft Carrier Night and All-Weather Operations", by Brown "Roll on the Rodney!: Life on the Lower Decks of Royal Navy Warships after the Second World War", by Phillipson "USS Bowfin (SS-287)", by Sumrall "Around the World with the US Navy: A Reporter's Travels", by Peniston Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Taiwanese Navy The February 25 edition of the Washington Post had an article entitled "Taiwan Displays Its Feeble Fleet". There was a photo of a 56-year-old ex-USN Guppy diesel sub, one of two in the Taiwanese navy, named Sea Leopard (hull number 792). Don't know if that was the original name or not. Taiwan has four submarines versus almost 100 for the PRC. The article also discusses the possibility of Taiwan acquiring Aegis technology for its surface ships. This story should be available online at washingtonpost.com. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Heian Maru Hello Yohan The Heian Maru was a merchant ship acquired by the IJN in the fall of 1941 to be made into a sub tender. She was 1 of 5 for this purpose. She measured 511.5 ft by 66ft by 30ft displacing 11,616 tons and was built in 1930 by the Oaska Iron Works . She meet her fate on Feb 2,1944. This kit isn't new just a reworking of some passenger liner kits that had before back in the early 80's By the way the proper title for IJN ships was HIJMS-His Imperial Japanese Majesty Ship. Speaking of Japan Yohan that's an old argument here if they want to make their countries ships then that's what they'll make, many ships have aground by US Companies and look at Heller or Airfix they provide a lot on their countries ships and that's just the way it is . Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: Aircraft on Lexington John Snyder wrote: >> It's an interesting photo in other ways. Look at the deckload of planes. There's a cocooned Hudson or Vega mixed in there, and what the heck is the little light-colored aircraft on the port side, aft of the planes spotted on the bow? << The aircraft is a Brewster Buffalo, as are the ones spotted on the bow. As for the cocooned Vega or Hudson, I think this is an illusion (I assume you are referring to the light shape beside the funnel) which is the other elevator, also lowered. The other aircraft appear to be Dauntlesses and Devastators, which would fit with Buffaloes being on board. >> Also note the midships elevator (lift for you Commonwealth types) appears to be lowered to the hangar deck, revealing white bulkheads. << As has been pointed out on this list (by you also I believe) white was used on bulkheads below decks to help make the lower levels brighter. Daniel Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: New Hasegawa 1/700 Heian Maru >> Just saw a new Hasegawa 1/700 release on HobbyLink Japan of the IJN Heian Maru. Anyone have more information on this ship? All I can see from the small box art scan is that it is an auxiliery with an interesting paint scheme, and I think I can see a sub lying along side. So a sub tender is my guess. Now I like auxilieries and I like IJN ships, but why do these companies focus on releasing every little, obscure IJN ship while ignoring tons of other major combattants from other navies? << It is indeed a submarine tender, an adaptation of a NYK liner for this role. Few changes were made, apart from getting rid of all the comfortable passenger accommodations and adding a few guns. Actually there are some sound economic reasons why this model was released by Hasegawa. It is another version of their existing kit of the HIKAWA MARU. The HIEAN MARU was a sister ship. A few issues back in PSM we did a conversion article for doing this ship from the HIKAWA MARU kit. It will be interesting to see if they get it right. There is a design error in this kit regarding the number and placement of the cargo booms (pointed out in the article) that needs to be corrected regardless of which ship you do. I doubt if Hasegawa will spend the money to correct this. Probably the kit will consist of the old HIKAWA MARU moldings with an extra sprue for the guns and a new set of instructions. Daniel Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: WHB103@aol.com Subject: Re: New Hasegawa 1/700 Heian Maru The Heian Maru was a passenger liner made into a sub tender. It is now lying fully on its port side in Truk Lagoon having been bombed and torpedoed out of existence in Feb 1944 by US TF58. It is a huge ship and I dove it in 1993 while doing a video for the 50th anniversary of the Truk raid - Operation Hailstone. The Heian Maru still has disassembled Japanese torpedoes in her holds, along with spare periscopes, and other spare parts. The upper port side is about 60 feet deep. The bridge is accessible to about 80 feet. The port side is at about 110 feet. Underwater, it is like looking at the Titanic lying on her side in shallow water. - HUGE! Some torpedo oxygen flasks have been purposely exploded by US military divers under an aide program to the Federated States of Micronesia. This was done to prevent injury to fishermen who can bring the flasks up in their nets. Fifty years of corrosion has caused some to explode spontaneously. These larger auxiliaries provide modelers with the opportunity to work with interesting new offerings. There is obviously a lot of pride within Japan for their WW II Navy despite it's defeat. When one looks at the little range of offerings of WW II US ships by US plastic model manufacturers, versus the offerings of Japanese model manufacturers of US and Japanese WW II ships, one can hardly complain about the Japanese not providing a wide range of model ship types. Aloha from Hawaii Bill -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Francisco Javier Chaves Salarrullana" Subject: One or two keys? >> My keyboard has a one key next to the two key. Does any one have one which is diferent? ;-> << Does it work for left handed too? I'm really worried about it! Thanks to all the SMMLies who answered my post on KGV camouflage. Francisco Javier Chaves Zaragoza (SPAIN). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Bruce Ross" Subject: Re: ISW 4-piper I just wanted to echo Ed's remarks about the new ISW 4-piper. I received mine in the mail today and I must say that I'm very impressed. Like Ed's mine had the casting stub still in place and around it were some fair size bubbles but nothing that I can't repair in fairly short order. Top side there was one small bubble in the starboard bulwark just aft of the forward superstructure, again nothing I can't fix in a few minutes. Unlike Ed's my hull is the traditional tan resin and the extra castings is the olive green color. Not that I usually do this but just for curiosity sake I took a micrometer do it. My hull worked out to be about 1.5ft. wide in the beam and just a shade over in overall lenght. But by just looking at it, she's a beauty. Jon and Ted I believe that you have a real winner of a kit here, but I also have to agree with Ed about the instruction sheets. Maybe on later kits a little bit more work is necessary here. Overall, an outstanding kit and I can hardly wait to add her to the collection. If I could just decide what configuration to make her. Bruce Fort Worth, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Ann or Gregg Dunphy Subject: Re: Heian maru Yohan Fernando asked: >> Just saw a new Hasegawa 1/700 release on HobbyLink Japan of the IJN Heian Maru. Anyone have more information on this ship? << As I understand it, the Heian Maru was one of three ships of the Hikawa Maru class. All three vessels were "borrowed" from their civilian owners by the Japanese navy during WW II. Hikawa Maru served as a hospital ship during the war and survived. The other vesssels, Hie Maru and Heian Maru, served as sub tenders. Neither ship survived the war. Hasegawa released two versions of the Hikawa Maru some years back; one as a hospital ship, the other as an ocean liner. The kits were very similar; the main diferences being the color of the plastic parts in which components of the kits were molded, the presence of a cross for the hospital ship version and the decal sets. I haven't seen the latest rendition of this kit yet, but I suspect that it will be molded in gray and will contain a couple of 4.7 inch guns and their respective mounting tubs to complete the conversion from ocean liner to sub tender. I'm not really surprised to see Hasegawa trying to wring a few more yen out of a set of molds for a relatively obscure class of merchant ships / auxilliaries. I'm just suprised they waited so long. Saves me from having to scrounge up the parts to do the same thing for the ocean liner version of Hikawa Maru. Unless, of course Hasegawa doesn't release Hie Maru. ;) Gregg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Royal Navy Semaphore Flags >> Can anyone tell me the color(s) of Royal Navy semaphore flags during WW l, May 1916? I hope I have the terminology correct, I'm referring to the hand held wig-wag signal flags used to spell out visual messages ship to ship << Gary You should go to http:www.ukans.edu/~kansite/ww_one/naval/n0000000.htm Then have look into the "Communications" chapter. There are articles on: RN Esmaphore Procedure RN Flag Waving Procedure Grand Fleet Recognition Marks and Signalling Procedure 1916 I guess there also were some color pictures of the flags. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: Re: New Hasegawa 1/700 Heian Maru Hi Yohan, Yes the Heian Maru is an Auxiliary Submarine Depot Ship. According to JJM, Japanese Warships of WWII, page 239, she was built as a liner in 1930 and requisitioned in 1941. Served as depot ship to the 1st submarine follita until sunk by air attack in Truk in 1944. Why her? I suspect when the model arrives that it will prove to be a minor modification of Hasegawa's liner and hospital ship kits - I suspect they were all sister craft. Consequently I suspect the choice of Heian Maru was nothing more than a clever re-use of under-utilised existing moulds at minimal cost to the manufacturer. The kit is somewhere between Japan and NZ - will post again after it has arrived. John Sutherland Wellington NZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: Re: L/M Class destroyers There are a couple of other choices. You can model in 1/350 - from memory WEM does Lively and Milne. Instead of using the Matchbox kit in 700 you could use one of the J or K class WEM kits. A lot pricier than the Matchbox kit but a simple comparison will show the difference is worth it. As a bonus you will not need to buy separately their J/K/N PE which would be almost essential anyway. You would probably also need to buy some of WEM's resin guns, etc if you use the Matchbox kit - it is very basic. The real problem will be finding the 4.7in very distinctive turrets - you will probably have to either build the 4in version (WEM makes them!), scratch build them, or try and twist Caroline's arm at WEM into either downscaling their 350 scale kit or at least the guns off them! Good luck! John Sutherland Wellington, New Zealand where Black Magic has just gone 3-0 up over Lunna Rossa -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: from W R PRESS inc, reference Flower CLass Corvettes Copies of Flower Class Corvettes by world famous author, John Lambert should be delivered form the printer within ten days. I strongly suggest that people purchase at least two copies each; one to use for modelling purposes and the second to keep in mint conditionfor general reference. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: 1/700 USS Wichita from Classic Warships The 1/700 USS Wichita kit from Classic Warships is nearing completion. The resin casting is underway, and the white metal parts development is well underway. I will start the instructions next week. The kit will be available about mid March. It will be only available thru Pacific Front Hobbies on the initial release of the first 50 kits, which you can pre-order now. Kit price has been set at $68.00. For pictures of the pattern, go to the C. W. web site @ www.classicwarships.simplenet.com and look under the "Upcoming Products" button. Thanks, Steve Wiper - Classic Warships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Classic Warships New Books We are working on the next two books, #7 and #8, which we hope to have out in May. Warship Pictorial #7 will be another photo album, this one on the New Orleans class cruisers. Warship Pictorial #8 will be a ship specific book, on the USS Salem CA-139, and because of difficulty finding good photo's (this ship never went to Mare Island), my partner, Mr. Flowers, has outdone himself, and supplied us with a wealth of detail drawings. The added bonus to you customers, on top of the color covers, is a color center spread in each book. The New Orleans class photo album will be a selection of WWII color photo's, while the Salem book will have one of Mr. Flowers great plan and profile drawings, rendered in color. Both books will sell for $9.95 ea. Thanks, Steve Wiper - Classic Warships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Conan35@aol.com Subject: Re: Model Expo Paints Steve: All I can tell you is, we based the paints on the Snyder & Short chip sets, and sent a batch to the good people there (haven't heard from them yet). They were fully tested for accuracy and each batched is color checked. We manufacture them ourselves. We got into this line after Floquil decided to discontinue their Marine Paint line. We were the #1 buyer of those paints, so it would've hurt us if we didn't come out with our own line. I've seen the Badger paints, and they're much higher priced. I had one customer observe they need to be thinned down for airbrush use, which is true, and it says so on the bottle. They are also acrylic, and some people will not like acrylic paints no matter what. We have tested them on wood, plastic, and they cover very well. Take a chance, buy 1 bottle, see what you think. They are availble from Model Expo only, and also from selected hobby stores that purchase them from us. Best Regards Rob Finley Web Site Mgr. Model Expo, Inc. - http://www.modelexpoinc.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume