Subject: SMML VOL 842 Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 01:32:21 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: U-110 Markings 2: Scharnhorst 3: Revell CSS Alabama Re-release 4: DKM 5: Re: RC battlewagons 6: Re: Resin vs. Plastic 7: Re: Dullcote yellowing 8: Adm. Fletcher, Lundstrom & Reynolds' books 9: USS Monterey (CVL-26) photos 10: Re: Evarts DE 11: To Harold Lincoln re. Vogelgesang model 12: Re: RC battlewagons 13: Potemkin railings 14: Ships masts 15: Materials Longevity 16: Re: Steve's book collection 17: USS Ward/ Decatur camo 18: Filler for resin 19: Deutschland Class Main Armament 20: Re: Dullcote Yellowing 21: Seabat Decals 22: Re: Tamiya 1:700 Fletcher 23: Ship Kitsuckers 24: Movies 25: Osumi 26: CVL question and FFH photos 27: Re: 80s USN UNIFORMS 28: Skywave instructions 29: America's cup win congrats -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Warship Books announcement 2: Book for sale 3: Profiles FS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: U-110 Markings Hi SMML, I recently found a copy of "The Secret Capture," which is primarily about U-110. There are some photographs of U-110, and I can't make out any markings on the conning tower, but does anyone know if she had any markings or insignia on her conning tower? I understand there are books about U-boat markings, but I don't have one of them. Thanks, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "John Rule" Subject: Scharnhorst >> How much of SCHARNHORST is shown in this mottled camouflage? She wore a hastily-applied mottled camouflage on her superstructure during the Channel Dash only, but I've never seen one on her hull.<< The photo of Scharnhorst, number 77 in the Warships Fotofax book German Battleships 1897 - 1945 is a very poor reproduction. There is no reference as to the source of the photo. The publication and reproduction are poorly done resulting in a grainy picture. The photo is labeled as April 1943. The ship appears to have a dark and light grey hull with the separation being a wavy line. The darker colour seems to mainly be on the lower side of the demarcation. The bow and stern may have a lighter colour to create the illusion of a smaller ship. As a side note the turret tops appear to be light coloured. It would be interesting to know the source of the photo, and if better quality reproduction would be possible. Perhaps if anyone knows Mr R.A. Burt, or has a contact at A & A Press we could trace some more history of the photo. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Robert Writt" Subject: Revell CSS Alabama Re-release I noticed that Revell has indicated that they will be re-releasing the 1/96 CSS Alabama this spring. I am interested in purchasing this model. Can any one recommended this kit ? Thank you Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: DKM Hi Foeth The German ships fell into the Fisher trap, neglecting armament for speed. The Lutzow's were unable to outrun any of the modern battleships of any navy and didn't have the armour to cope. As you note they couldn't even handle ordinary cruisers and were probably the worst of the DKM designs. You seem to have missed several engagements, Renown v Scharnhorst and Gniesenau, Hipper v Berwick and the Battle of the Barents Sea. The plain truth is that unless the foe was clearly easily beaten the DKM turned and ran. This excludes the destroyer fleet and light craft which tended to be handled with boldness and considerable skill. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: RC battlewagons Christopher Crofoot writes: >> I was intrigued by some comments on RC conversions of Tamiya ships using servos as motors...I was wondering if anybody knows of a basic book on RC Ship building...As in RC Ships for Dummies. (I know that much!) << You are in luck Chris. There are a number of good basic references on this subject. One of the newest is: Working Scale Model Merchant Ships Tom Gorman ISBN 1-55750-942-5 Don't be dissuaded by the title; it is full of useful information that can be applied to warships. Some others: Scale Model Ships Vic Smeed ISBN 0-85242 927 4 Radio Control Scale Boats John Cundell ISBN 1 85486 021 6 Installing Radio Control in Boats John Cundell ISBN 1 85486 022 4 One of the online booksellers, such as Amazon.com, should be able to supply at least some of these. Good Luck! Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Resin vs. Plastic A little input from someone who creates resin kits. When you purchase a resin kit you are, in fact, buying art. These kits are hand made creations. Even the castings, resin or white metal, are hand cast. You are buying art that you can actually take part in, by the assembly of each model. These kits are limited in their production, which makes them rare, and collectable. I have heard many times from different people about the "High Price" of resin kits. I have come to the conclusion that that particular individual just can't understand what it takes to produce these kits, because once a person actually gets one and works on it, they are hooked. They have a tendency to purchase more, because they discovered something new and exciting and really like all aspects of the resin kit. Everyone can afford a resin kit, some just have to realize this. Steve Wiper - Classic Warships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Kenneth Perry Subject: Re: Dullcote yellowing Hello, I have read that Testors Laquer paints are not true laquers and are more of a "modified enamel" therefore the tendency to yellow after a few years of sunlight. I have several aircraft models coated in this type of paint, the ones in cases away from the windows look like the day I painted them and the ones hanging near the windows have yellowed. They say the best long term paint to use would be automotive laquers. Of course, I've never heard of a dullcoat auto paint. These are very hot paints and the model must be sealed with primer before using them or they will sometimes harm plastics. They don't seem to bother resin. Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: Adm. Fletcher, Lundstrom & Reynolds' books Rob, Thanks for pulling out my subliminal thougth processes. Those Lundstrom books are terrific, and that must be where I got both my impression of Fletcher and (I'll bet) the idea that he was getting bad press due to his post-war condition. I tend to devour bibliographic notes for some reason. I concur re: these very good books by Lundstrom, and Clark Reynolds' book - it is an excellent study of the people involved in the carrier war - who worked out and who didn't and (for our British friends) includes an analysis on the RN's contribution to the Pacific carrier war. Reynolds also has a colorful account of the Yorktown (CV-10)'s activities during the Pacific offensive, and books (which I haven't read, but want to) on Yorktown skipper and TF 58 task group commander Jocko Clark, and early USN carrier advocate John Towers. Michael Smith Marshall, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: USS Monterey (CVL-26) photos If anyone is ever doing this ship, be sure to contact the Gerald Ford Presidential Library re: photos. I was getting a copy of one of their photos from their website on this carrier, and they mentioned in passing that they had a lot more that weren't on the website. They sent me photocopies, and they're pretty good as far as details of the ship, including numerous pictures of the fire-damaged hangar and smashed planes after some tied down planes broke loose and started a fire during on of Halsey's typhoons. Also a lot of photos of recreational activities (basketball & volleyball) on the lowered elevator. Future U.S. president Ford was the ship's phys ed officer, and all these photos are from his personal scrapbooks. I'll have scans of these photocopies which have the identifying numbers, but the original copies are available through the Ford Library. All official USN, so no copyright issues re: reproduction. Michael Smith Marshall, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Dave Judy Subject: Re: Evarts DE I didn't get the scale you were looking for......but Commanders Models has the Evarts in 1/350 scale.....resin. Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Loren Perry Subject: To Harold Lincoln re. Vogelgesang model The Vogelgesang model is intact and in perfect shape (save for the yellowed finish) and crated up in storage because I currently have no place to display it. But we're bidding on a piece of property elsewhere on Lopez Island (soon to be Gold Medal Models World Headquarters!) and within a couple of years, we should have a new home with room for the Vogie to be displayed. A four-foot model destroyer needs a little more than average space for proper viewing. The R/C system is still in the model though the batteries may no longer be viable. But it's retired from operating sessions and will probably never touch water again. Some members of SMML have made some useful suggestions on clearing up the yellowing without removing the finish, and I'm going to give all these ideas a try. I thank everyone who offered their ideas. This is SMML at its finest! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: CapnAgee@aol.com Subject: Re: RC battlewagons Step one is find an rc scale modeler - get to an SSMA (Scale Ship Modelers of America club or member) or independent. The best help comes from someone who is doing or has done it. Coker's book tells how to build cage masts; I'm doing it with Arizona. Tell me where you live (address , tele#, etc) and we'll get you started! Capnagee@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Tom Werner Hansen" Subject: Potemkin railings Dumb question alert!! When preparing my Russian Heller clone Potemkin for photoetch railings, I remove the raised part of the upper deck which I assume represents the railings + fabric covering, right? Those holes in the deck really are the pits, literally. A sailor could fall into one of those and break a leg. I'm removing as much of the raised deck planking as I can, but I understand why Harry Woodman recommended recovering the deck with plasticard. Tom W H -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: John Fail Subject: Ships masts I am building a 1:96 model of the USCGC Taney, a 327' Cutter using a resin hull from the Scale Shipyard I have the deck house built, guns etc. but now I am at the point that I need to create the masts for the model. The 327's had a fore and main mast carrying the normal radar antennas, running lights etc. and are tapered from bottom to top. I wonder if any of you have suggestions on what material to use for the masts, plastic, brass, wood etc. and a good technique for tapering them. They would be about 14 inches high and taper from about 1/4 inch at the bottom to 1/8 inch at the top. Also would be interested in comments about some techniques for attaching the yardarms to the masts. Thanks in advance John Fail, QMC USCG (retired) former crewmember USCGC TANEY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Materials Longevity Harold Lincoln writes: >> I personally have grave doubts about the life of some of the adhesives in use today. Lloyd McCaffery goes into the subject of life of materials in some detail in his book "Ships in Miniature". << Thanks for bringing this up! I would like to hear what other people have to say on this topic of materials longevity, as it has been something worries me a bit ever since I read that chapter on materials in McCaffery's excellent book. Mc Caffery even says he will not use plastics due to unknown longevity. I deliberately avoid resin kits because the material's life span is unknown. The fact that there is always a strong resinous odor when I open a resin kit box leads me to suspect that it is "outgassing"-- a degenerative process. Not to start a flame war from the resin kit makers here, but who is to say that in 50 years a resin model will not be a pile of crumbs or a lump of grease? OTOH plastic and plexiglass from WWII has survived pretty well under controlled climate conditions, so despite McCaffery's warnings, I feel OK about using them. It's a serious issue. I have seen numerous museum models that are starting to rot away in their cases, while some antique models show practically no age whatsoever. An ounce of prevention, as they say, is worth a pound of cure. Cheers Dave P.S. Loren, perhaps strong sunlight will eventually fade out the dullcoat's yellowing?? It works for me on yellowed decal film. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: Steve's book collection Joe Damato once wrote: >> I can vouch for Steve's (Jurassic Warships) collection. He recently offered me his entire collection of Poultry Weekly and Barn yard Romeo. This guy collects everything! What a guy! << He offered you his Poultry Weekly collection ?!?!?!? Geeze, the only thing Steve's ever offered me was a box of belly-button lint and his "Barry Mantilow does the Polka" albums. John R. Sheridan Anda one anda twoooooooo........... What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 The last place on earth I would look for the Lumber Cartel(tm) is http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: USS Ward/ Decatur camo HI: I'm sure that this has come up before, but I couldn't find the info I am looking for camo info for Wickes/Clemson calss 4 stackers in pre-war useage. What is the correct camo schem fo the USS Ward pre-war config Same for the USS Decatur Thank you. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Filler for resin HI: I found a great filler for resin voids. It is Locktite "Quicktite" super glue gel In a metaluic grey and blue squeze bottle. It comes out as a thick jel, about the consistncy of toothpaste, and can be built up over gaps, or squezed int holes. A quick shot of kicker, and you are reasy to sand and final shape. I have even used it quite successfully to repair a 3/16 gap in a molded in prop shaft on a ship hull. The stull comes out that stiff! just squirt in into the gap and kick it with CA accellerator. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Peter & Donna Mispelkamp" Subject: Deutschland Class Main Armament Interestingly enough, the Treaty of Versailles did not limit the main armament of the new German post-WWI era 10,000 ships - just their displacement. Most likely they believed that Germany would never be able to build an effective ocean-going warship with a decent armament. They probably hoped that Germany would content itself by building slow monitor type ships with a medium or slightly larger caliber. (Shameless plug: see my article on German Navy in Garland's World War II in Europe (1999) Vol. I pp. 721 - 726 and on German Battleships Vol. II pp 855-858) encyclopedia.) Oh well, as one German field marshal once said " If you give the enemy three choices, he will take the fourth." (NB this is a rough paraphrase!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Al Superczynski Subject: Re: Dullcote Yellowing On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 23:30:17 +1100, Mike Kear wrote: >> ....what should I use if I don't want yellowing to be a problem? << Use an acrylic clear flat, or a mixture of about 30% Tamiya Flat Base and 70% Future (I think it's called "Super Stride" in Oz). The key thing to be aware of is that anything that has a yellow tint in the bottle *will* eventually turn yellowish on a model. HTH, Al http://www.up-link.net/~modeleral -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "wblad" Subject: Seabat Decals As of 27 Jan. 2000, Seabat was still in business. You have the correct email address so maybe they're just slow about answering. Their address is: Seabat Replicas, 4714 Retana Dr, Madison, WI 53714-2636, phone (608)245-0900, fax (608)245-0788. As an alternative, try wargaming shops. One that carries their decals is The Last Square, in St. Petersburg, Florida. Their website is at: http://www.thelastsquare.com/seabat.html. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Tamiya 1:700 Fletcher Dear Derek: What you need is good reference material. Try to get Squadron/Signal Fletcher class DD's or WR Press Fletchers/Sumner/Gearings to help you out. I wouldn't know where to begin, after the fall of 1942 they were primary warship in the Solomon Islands campaign.Admitly the kit is basic and with say a Skywave accessory set or photoetch parts they could be nice kits. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "hugh1lottie2" Subject: Ship Kitsuckers For those of you that have been lusting after Ranger and Cimarron [AO 177], you can find them at Colpar Hobbies [Colpar.com] if you beat the Kitsuckers. You know....they are the ones that walk by a hobbyshop and all the great kits disappear never to be seen again unless you burrow down deep and find them on a shelf in the dark recesses of the kitsucker's habitat. They prey on plastic or resin but the latter is preferred. The rarer the resin, the more obscure subjects are, follows a direct correlation to being accumulated by kitsuckers. Kitsuckers are not wired but frequently do attach themselves to computers which makes them all the more efficent. Hurry before the kitsuckers strike again. They are out there lurking on e-bay and a hobbyshop near you. Hugh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Marc Flake Subject: Movies SMMLers: Saw this on another list (of which some of us are members). Thought I'd post it over here, too. It's a list of Aviation movies, including many USN types. Check out the description of "Tora. Tora, Tora." Also, read this description of Heston's final flight in "Midway" -- Heston takes off in a Hellcat, is shown flying to target in a Dauntless (with Vindicators in the background) attacks the target in a Helldiver and finally crashes in a Panther. Interesting comment from "Helldiver" -- the arrestor cable scenes were censored by the USN because they were top secret. Enjoy. http://www.coastcomp.com/av/fltline2/avmovie.htm Marc Texas (Where, 164 years ago today -- March 6 -- the Alamo fell.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Ismail Hassenpflug Subject: Osumi My bit on the Osumi, With regard to colours, Pitroad provide colours in their Ships Colours Series labelled JMSDF Grey 1 (hulls) and JMSDF Grey 2 (Decks). These look to be the right clours for the Osumi, and I used them on my model. As per the instructions, the entire ship, decks and hull, is JMSDF Grey 1 (okay, Tamiya give their own colour there), with the exception of the helicopter landing deck, which I painted JMSDF Grey 2 (a darker grey). What I am uncertain about, seeing as Tamiya made some mistakes with the kit, and seing as the model supposedly represents the Osumi as built (deck markings are substantially different now), is whether the rest of the main deck, forecastle and bridge decks should not be in a diferent shade of grey, somewhere between Greys 1 and 2. The differrence between the helicopter landing pad and the rest of the main deck is clear from photos. But it also seems that there is another shade of grey involved too. For example, the top of the bridge shows two different shades (demarcated aft of the navigation equipment - those white bulbous things!), and the forecastle winches and so forth are clearly a different colour to the deck they are mounted on. However, this could be an illusion brought about by the photography and the non-slip surface reflections. If anyone knows the answer, please let me know - I spent a lot of time detailing the kit, and correcting errors (like repositioning vents on the hull, opening them and adding mesh, making the hull crane recesses and cranes, a new mast, etc). At the moment I am waiting for the new Pitroad Osumi Photo-etch set to use in updating the model, after finding some more good photos to help in further adding details on the mast and bridge. So I was thinking of correcting the painting too, if necessary.... Although I live in Japan (Kyoto) I have not been able to actually visit the ship and check for myself :-) If you have any questions about detailing the kit, please send email directly - I took some pictures during the building, and afterwards, so if you want to see the result and use it as reference, please don't hesitate to ask. The main references were various issues of Ships of the World (Sekai no Kansen), Maru, and several websites. Lately, I discovered a range of good close-up pictures on the Tamiya website too. Only one of the Ships of the World issues shows the present configuration though.... still looking for more recent pictures (1999 onwards). Regards, Ismail Hassenpflug, MSc.Eng PhD 1st year: Ionospheric Physics Kyoto University, Radio Atmospheric Science Center -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Stuart Robottom Subject: CVL question and FFH photos Hello all. Does anyone know the difference between the DML Invincible/Ark Royal kits and the Revell Illustrious? The Illustrious at the local hobby store has artwork showing her in what appears similar to an Ark fit -- but it costs as much as two DML ships. Wouldn't it be better to buy an Ark Royal and save the money, or is the Revell kit actually Illustrious with specific parts? HMNZS Te Mana is coming to town soon. If I can get my camera repaired in time I will take photos of her. If anyone wants any particular details I may be able to take some photos, but I won't promise anything -- I'm racing against the clock with the camera! Regards, Stuart Robottom http://www.deakin.edu.au/~robottom/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: 80s USN UNIFORMS Harold Lincoln asks about details of the mighty fine 70's/80's USN enlisted uniforms... I was issued with them when I enlisted in late '73. Miraculously, after a few years on a shore tour, my S-3A Viking squadron for sea duty was assigned to ENTERPRISE when she lost the "beehive" island. (we stayed at NAS North Island for a couple of years). So during my seven enlisted years I never had the opportunity to try to (neatly) stow two of those suits and a three-dimensional combination cap in a shipboard locker. Thank you, Lord. They stopped issuing that uniform in 1981. I'm pretty sure the silver buttons had the same eagle design as officers' gold buttons. The cap device was a spread eagle sitting on a "USN". It was a dull finished aluminum color. I've still got a jacket somewhere deep in the back of a closet, saved against the day I screwed up so bad they would bust me back to enlisted ranks. A moot point now for a retired Commander. Absolutely the ONLY virtue of those uniforms was its convertibility to an officer's uniform for an enlisted man being commissioned. Change the buttons from silver to gold, remove the petty officer's badge, add stripes, and voila! Save a bundle! Rick Heinbaugh Seattle, WA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "Franz Aigner GmbH" Subject: Skywave instructions Some of the IJN Equipment sets appear to feature extensive instructions (the page w/o pictures is covered in writing), unfortunately in Japanese only. Do these instructions provide: a) useless information only (e.g. " glue part A to part B") b) useful information (e.g. "This is a type xx AA director, it was used on type abc Destroyers..." If b) holds true, could a friendly polylingual SMMLie PLEEEEASE translate them for the rest of us into English? Maybe that's an idea for an article in the Warship-website. Sincerely, Richard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: America's cup win congrats "From: "Martin Short" >> Still the home of the America's cup, and where we actually beat the Aussies at cricket (for once!) << Just wanted to add congratulations and well done to New Zealand for keeping the America's Cup and for beating the Australians at cricket.. keep up the good work. By the way don't fancy taking over a minor sporting event to be held here in Sydney in September do you? PLEASE! we will make it worth your while!!!! Won't cost much!! Simon Wolff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Warship Books announcement Hi group, I would like to announce That Bill Veigele's excellent account of USN PCs is now available through Warship Books http://www3.telus.net/warshipbooks/ PC Patrol Craft of World War II - A History of The Ships and Their Crews is about the USN PC Patrol Craft that fought in World War II. Almost 50,000 men served on 361 of "The Fogotten Fleet." It has thirty engineering drawings and a large fold out showing plan and elevation cutaway views. More than 150 photographs are in the book. It is invaluable for modelers. Price: Canada: $60Cdn + $8Cdn shipping USA: $39.95US + $5.95 shipping International: $39.95US + $20US shipping Keith Butterley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Percy, John" Subject: Book for sale Hello all, I have a book for sale: "Battleships of World War II", by MJ Whitly At last the real encyclopedia of World War II battleships! With over 250 photographs and detailed line drawings, full technical data, complete coverage of ship design and wartime service record, you can track the moves of battle wagons from Argentina to South Dakota. Don't miss the battleships that were the picture of naval might! 320 pages. Cost: $50, shipping included. US and its territories only and Payment by money order, please. John Percy mailto:jpercy@clariion.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Jtennier@aol.com Subject: Profiles FS Good Day Shane: I have the following duplicate Profiles for sale at $6.00US each plus postage at cost, all in good to VG condition: WP 1 - HMS Dreadnought, WP 2 - HMS Cossack, WP 3 - USS Hornet, WP 4 - KM Admiral Graf Spee, WP 5 - HMS Campbeltown, WP 6 - KM Prinz Eugen, WP 7 - HM MTB, Vosper 70ft, WP 8 - U 107, WP 9 - USS Charles Ausburne, WP 10 - HMS illustrious PT 1, WP 11 - HMS Illustrious, PT 2, WP 12 - IJN Kongo, WP 13 - HMS Exeter, WP 14 - SMS Seydlitz, WP 15 - USS Enterprise, WP 16 - HM S/M Upholder, WP 17 - RN Zara, WP 20 - HMS Hesperus, WP 22 - IJN Yukikaze, WP 23 - HMS Furious, WP 27 - SM TB 110. Please respond off list to jtennier@aol.com. Best regards, John Tennier -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume