Subject: SMML VOL 845 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:02:03 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: USS Flint 2: Re: Iowa Ms. 32/22d 3: Re: German Website 4: USS Flint 5: Re: RAN Ensign 6: Re: Yellowing experiment 7: Re: On Naming U.S. Warships 8: 1/1250 Neptun U.S. CA Wichita, fact or fiction. 9: Re: Detail & Scale America/Lexington 10: Ship model valuation 11: Re: Scratch build 1/96th scale Schleswig Holstein 12: Scale Warship Speed for R/C 13: Re: MARBLEHEAD mystery object! 14: New Zealand Navy Flags 15: contemplations on model longevity 16: Federation of American Scientists 17: Re: Various 18: British AMCs 19: Plans for AFFONDATORE 20: Carrier Names 21: Saratoga 22: Re: C.S.S. Alabama -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 1/350 Forrestal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Growlrr@aol.com Subject: USS Flint Shameless plug here Graham, BUT My book Warship Perspectives Atlanta Class Cruisers in WWII has 9 pages dedicated to Flint...There are some 27 photos of her. Starboard, port, overhead, builders shots, "up her keel", you name it...all 1944...Theres even a photo of her bridge "kill" marking I guarantee you've never seen before....There are also port and starboard camoflage drawings for Flint in 1944 - both in color.... Call Warship Perspectives (516) 887-0072 to order..... Glenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: Iowa Ms. 32/22d >> Does anyone know of any sites where I can find color photos of the Iowa in her measure 32/22d (according to the S&S site) scheme (1944)? This is the strange anti-sub scheme with the feathered edges. I have one small color shot in the Warship Data and Sumrall says there that the dark color is Navy Blue. I've seen Dull Black listed elsewhere. It looks like blue to me, but I'd love confirmation. Thanks! << First off, USS Missouri is the only Iowa class BB to carry MS 32/22d. USS Iowa carried MS 31a/1b (this is the one with the feathered edges and only feathered for a short while). The Warship data book #3 USS Iowa BB-61 has some pretty good shots of Iowa in MS 31a/1b and a drawing to boot! If I were to build this ship using MS 31a/1b, I would use Navy Blue instead of black for the dark color. John R. Sheridan What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 Last last place on earth I would look for the Lumber Cartel(tm) is http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Jerry Slagle Subject: Re: German Website >> .... Also is there a German naval site on the web? looking for info on Hipper and Prinz Eugen manly colour info wanted. << Graham, Try the following for a start: http://www.uwm.edu/~jpipes/kriegs.html Hope it helps, Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: USS Flint Hi Graham The Squadron/signal publication US Light Cruisers in Action has what you're looking for. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Scheckenbach, Alan" Subject: Re: RAN Ensign Here's a cut from the RAN website regarding the Ensign currently in use. THE AUSTRALIAN WHITE ENSIGN By J.H. Straczek, Senior Naval Historical Officer On the morning of the 1 March 1967 the Australian National Line cargo ship BOONAROO was commissioned into the Royal Australian Navy for war service. This event in itself is not unusual as merchant ships have been requisitioned by navies for centuries. What made this particular commissioning noteworthy is that BOONAROO was the first vessel to be commissioned under a distinctly Australian White Ensign. Prior to the establishment of the Royal Australian Navy the Australian colonial navies had flow uniquely Australian ensigns. This was a Blue ensign defaced by the badge of the individual colony. During the 1909 Imperial Conference the question of what ensign the dominion navies would fly was first raised. The representatives from Australia and Canada proposed that the ensign should be a white ensign defaced by the emblem of the particular dominion. No decision was reached on this matter. In August 1910 the Admiralty raised the issue concerning the status of dominion warships and proposed that they should fly the white ensign. Shortly after this the Parramatta City Council sought advise as to the flag to be worn by PARRAMATTA as they wished to present her with one. They were informed that PARRAMATTA would fly the Australian Blue Ensign on her arrival in Australia and until the matter of an ensign had been resolved with the Admiralty. Australian opinion favoured a uniquely Australian ensign but the Admiralty continued to resist and insisted that the Dominion Navies use the white ensign. The Admiralty eventually won out and the ships of the newly formed Royal Australian Navy flew the white ensign. Here the matter rested until 1965. On 28 October 1965 the Member for Batman, Mr SJ Benson MP, whilst speaking on the Naval Estimates argued that Australia should have its own, distinctive white ensign. His point was that Australian ships were engaged in a war flying the ensign of another country. The Minister for the Navy informed the House, on the same day, that the Navy was already looking at possible variants of the white ensign which would carry a distinctly Australian appearance. The Chief of Naval Staff subsequently sought the views of other members of the Naval Board and his senior officers. Following this consultation the matter was considered by the Naval Board on 21 January 1966. The Board decided to recommend to the Government "that the Royal Australian Navy should have its own unique white ensign". The ensign was described as being a "white flag with the Union Flag in the upper canton at the hoist with six blue stars positioned as in the Australian flag". The Minister for the Navy, Mr F Chaney MP, informed the Prime Minister of the Naval Board's decision and the formal approval of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II was requested. Royal assent to the new ensign was granted on 7 November 1966. The formal announcement of the new ensign was made by the Prime Minister on 23 December 1966. Originally it was intended to introduce the new ensign on the 1 May 1967 but this was subsequently amended to 1 March 1967. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Yellowing experiment >> Another thought, the test model should include an unvarnished stripe to check that it is the varnish that is yellowing (white paint can yellow all on its own) and stripes should be masked with UV proof tape at 90 degrees to the varnish stripes to show effect of exposure to light. << It was never intended to be a scientific experiment. I just wanted to see if the FSM advise worked. Last night I sprayed the same color white on a sheet of styrene and compared it to the white on the wing of the X-2. The white has not yellowed in the slightest. It was only a suggestion. Take it for what it's worth. I'm convinced. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: On Naming U.S. Warships OK go ahead and name CVN-77 Constellation - but boy are the guys on CV -64 going to be pissed off !! So would that be Constellation A & B :-) Mike Donegan NAVYDAZE, Naval & Aviation Artist Ah - come on - SMILE !! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: David Sepos Subject: 1/1250 Neptun U.S. CA Wichita, fact or fiction. I'm tring to find out if the announced Neptun U.S. CA Wichita has actually been released, or is it still pending? Has anyone out there seen one or actually purchased it? Some have stated it's out, or will be out by the end of March. Thanks. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SSACHSEN@aol.com Subject: Re: Detail & Scale America/Lexington >> Anyone out there know where I could find a Tab Books Detail & Scale book no. 25047 USS America or a book no. 25039 USS Lexington? Let me know off line if you need to. << They're both available in catalog #26 from Floating Drydock, and also have been known to show up in Squadron Mail Order's montly flyer on sale from time to time. s -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: LBart73@aol.com Subject: Ship model valuation Hi Derek, Would this be your 1/350 Texas by any chance? I know there are specialty insurance firms that can value such models. Also might try galleries that sell such things. I have a freind who sells through a gallery in Annapolis. They apparantly have a formula for determing a value. (My friend has sold several scratchbuilt sailing ship modles this way - Baltimore Clipper, J-boat, etc, for around $3,500) Larry B -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Scratch build 1/96th scale Schleswig Holstein >> Please can anyone help? I would like to scratch build a 1/96th scale model of the Schleswig Holstein at the start of her career. Any suggestions for plans, photos etc would be gratefully received. << Tim, Christian Schmidt Books in Germany has a set of plans for the Schleswig-Holstein (Sloshing Beerstein), and now is the best time to order as the Mark is about $.50, so your money will go a lot further. There web page is www.christian-schmidt.com. Order their catalog of plans. The plans are for the 1908 version. I dont know of a WWII version. I do know it does exist, but cant find a source to obtain them. Steve Wiper Classic Warships Good Luck -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Scale Warship Speed for R/C I am doing the Tamiya 1/350 USS Missouri for my first attempt at radio control (with and for my 11 year old son). 1. I was just thinking about what would be an acceptable scale speed for a 1/350 scale ship. Assume a ship is 880 feet long. 26 knots, or 30 mph or 44 feet per second. Therefore, it would take 20 seconds to go its own length. Not real thrilling to me or a kid. I don't know what is a pleasing speed without seeming absurd, but something fast enough to cause a small bow wave and make a wake would be nice. 2. How fast does it have to go to get adquate steerage and control in a small cross breeze? 3. How much oversize should the rudder be for a ship of this size and scale? 4. Do I need to consider prop size and rpm? The scale props provided with the kit seem too small to get any speed at any rpm. Thanks in advance, Roger Clemens Hinsdale, Illinois -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: MARBLEHEAD mystery object! Fritz, I have the drawings from the US Archives of the Marblehead, sets dating 1925, 1939, & 1942. In the '42 set the item in question is listed as "3 inch gun director". Unfortunately I cant find any reference as to which director it is. It could be a Mk. 19, or a Mk. 39, or even a Mk. 47. My best guess is that it was a Mk. 19, as the Omaha's saw little of the new improvements during the war, compared to other ships. If you look at the drawings in Friedman's US Naval Weapons or Campbell's Naval Weapons of WWII, you will find a drawing of this director, which looks like it could be the same shape as the one in the photo of Marblehead on page 49, in my book on the Omaha's. On a side note, if you need alternate parts, like the 3"/50's, go to my web page @ www.classicwarships.simplenet.com and look for the Accessories page for all the parts listings. I you have detailed questions, please call me. Good luck, Steve Wiper Classic Warships (520) 748-2992 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: New Zealand Navy Flags Diane, HMNZ Ships fly the NZ white ensign from the stern. This is the New Zealand national flag with white rather than blue background and the stars changed to red. NZ merchant ships use a red background with white stars. It is rare to fly any other flag but I have seen the proper New Zealand national flag flown at the bow on ceremonial occassions and up the mainmast when in overseas port with that country's flag beneath it. John Sutherland Wellington, New Zealand (which went absolutely crackers yesterday with America's Cup victory celebrations) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Mike Taylor" Subject: contemplations on model longevity The recent thread caused me to wax poeticly to myself, and perhaps was the cause of some ego stroking...I build for a living-aircraft, armor figures and ships. My first pro ship build was a DE 260 Evarts class in 1/350 in June of 98. I sat down and looked through my invoices and counted. Since then I've had 39 ship jobs. Many dioramas can be seen in Warships Gallery. I've compiled a list and have decided to sign and number the bottom of the bases on kits #'d 33 and up, as I still have or am working from that number at present. They're all well cased and it allows me to feel that someday, maybe someone will recognise my work. As far as longevity is concerned, if a piece falls off somewhere down the road-I hope the "then" owner will find someone to re-attach it. Kits shipped before #33 will be unmarked, some built for 3rd parties, but I'm hoping my list amd craftmanship will allow them to be known if they survive. If not, well I won't be able to remedy the situation will I? :) Each is my own personal twist on history, or accuracy; each individually worthy of some comment, good or bad. till next time smmlies.....Mike T -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "wblad" Subject: Federation of American Scientists The web address for the Federation of American Scientists military site is: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101. Click on "us weapon systems" and "navy" for ship data and pics. wblad@msn.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Bruce D. Wright" Subject: Re: Various Answeres to various questions? To Ed: In over 15 years of taking USNIPl I have seen the "name game" at least 3 times. And while you (and I) decry it, what is the point of your rant in vol. 844? To Fritz: I love the Omaha's too. Unfortunatly, I am not set up to use my resources now, but can offer you 15 reels of microfilm that may be able to answer your problem. Let me know if your interested in total plans for these ships. I will not take a profit from you, I will charge you only what the duplications company wants for dupication and shipping, nothing else. (1500 feet[15 rolls of 100 feet each] of 35mm microfilm). These films answered a lot of questions for me. To however reads this, I also have the USS Arkansas microfilm plans. To Mike D'Silva: Check out Paul Halpern's book "The Mediterranean Naval Situation" published by Havard University Press. He describes in detail the direvation of KuK. Very interesting. To Ismail: I've had to learn to "decode" Japanese in order to learn what Japanese warships were doing in WWII. Unfortunatly, I have problems with the grammer and especially names. I normally use P.G. O'Neill's book "Japanese Names", but I don't think that this reference is giving me proper answers. Would you be willing to help with names of ship's commanders only so I can complete my studies in Japanese cruiser and battleship studies? If you would reply, please contact me at wrightbd@mail.tss.net. Thank you. Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Bruce D. Wright" Subject: British AMCs Does anyone know of a source that describes the armament layout of British AMC's? Thank you: Bruce Wright:? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Plans for AFFONDATORE Hi All; I have the strange itch to build a R/C model of the Italian AFFONDATORE (1866) in 1/72 scale. Anyone know of available plans of this era? Might do it in 1:144 , though. I have this ship in 1:1200 (Houston) and I just like the looks of it. Chuck Duggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: James Corley Subject: Carrier Names >> CDR Borchoux argues that given the power and prominance of the nations carriers, they should be named wisely. CVN-77 will be named within the next few months and there are or will be available historic names that should be carried on: Constellation, Lexington, Saratoga, Midway, and Coral Sea. << Haven't gotten mine yet(?!), but Constellation is out ... the ship is still on active duty. I have heard there is growing support for LEXINGTON for CVN-77. I would like to see CVX-78, the first of a "new, revolutionary carrier design" be named LANGLEY for obvious reasons. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: James Corley Subject: Saratoga >> The color photo in question shows SARA in Measure 21, overall Navy Blue 5-N. Beyond that, I'm unwilling to guess further as I'm looking at the photo on my laptop screen--not the best venue. The Grumman product sitting aft among the SBDs appears too big to be a Wildcat--looks more like an Avenger. If so, it's not Midway but sometime later. Given the color of the flight deck, I'm inclined to think that it might be a mis-dated photo that actually shows her after she was relegated to training carrier status--except for the SBDs which by 1945 had disappeared from the fleet. More on this later. << Don't know about Sara & Ranger, but the Great Lakes kept using SBDs for CarQuals thru the end of the war. When they withdrew several hundred aircraft they didn't go to the desert from 43 onward, they went to the Marines and to CAVU units. What I see on deck is 6 SBDs aft, 1 TBF and 4 F4Fs ... cannot identify aircraft sitting cross-deck forward of TBF. Could this be an earlier photo of the ship returning to PH after delivering reinforcments to Midway? IIRC, she did deliver the second batch of fleet TBFs on that mission. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Vincent Mccullough" Subject: Re: C.S.S. Alabama Larry B wrote: >> ....As has already been mentioned, there is very little factual evidence on Alabama's appearance anyway.... << I'm actually a little surprised at this statement. The Mariner's Museum in Newport News Virginia has the curator says is the builders' model of the Alabama. I've seen it myself (last I saw, it was in their "attic," like so many other objects that they do not have the exhibit space for). I can't imagine a better source of information about her appearance (at least, how she was supposed to appear when launched). Vince McCullough -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Joe Damato" Subject: 1/350 Forrestal Yes Rusty it's true. I've wanted to do some carriers in 350 scale for years, and now that I've freed myself from indentured servitude at JSP, I can pursue my dreams. Having worked for a guy who had a warped view of the hobby, it was difficult to really do anything right. Now that it's my money and my company, I'll make whatever toys I want. As far as the price goes, that was only a guess, a lot depends how we produce it and how many I can presell. Having done production casting for over 20 years, my experience producing computer monitor shells and other hollow products will help me figure this one out. My goal is to make it as cheep as possible and we haven't ruled out making most of the sales direct only (except those to Pacific Front) for the first batch. Maybe offer the first 20-30 at a reduced price...still have to work it out. The Forrestal will be done as built with early aircraft..and from there update it to post fire. Bob Oconner was at the shop the other day and got a good look. It's almost as big as he is!...without the gun Bob of course. Any way, once we get this web page finished, I will post progress photos along the way. It should be interesting for everyone to see what I go thru to give you stuff you want. Thanks for your support and Cheesy Proofs Joe of JAG -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume