Subject: SMML VOL 847 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 22:30:22 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Naming of a ship 2: Re: Naming ships after politicians 3: Re: CSS Alabama 4: SMML in San Francisco 5: Re: Model value 6: Re: Darek's Texas value 7: Re: Naming Ships 8: Re: Affording resin kits 9: Re: Art and Ship Models 10: Re: Forrestal question 11: bismarck paint chips 12: Re: Ships' battle ribbons 13: Re: Expensive models 14: IJN Set II (E-5) continued 15: Re: Subject: Longevity Art and Ship Models 16: Re: Naming of U.S. Navy Ship 17: Re: Definition of "Battleship" 18: Re: Longeivity Art and Ship Models 19: Adapting shop tools for hobby? 20: USN Warship Camouflage 21: RC parts for 1/350 Battleships 22: Yamato book on e-bay 23: Butch O'Hare -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Flower Class Book 2: Bismarck and Tirpitz sets in 1/350 and 1/400 scales 3: NEW ARRIVALS from PACIFIC FRONT 4: WTB: Morrison US Naval Operations of WWII.VOLS 2,4,13, and 14 5: USS Yorktown Aegis Cruiser -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Jerry Slagle Subject: Re: Naming of a ship I don't know if I missed one of the messages or if it only a conincidental that the following resoultion is running through the Senate Chambers. You can get the full bill at: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c106:1:./temp/~c106kKBx6S: Hopefully the link will work, if not go to the main site and run a query on CVN-77. Maybe it's time to right on Congressional Representatives. I would hate to see CVN-77 named Bill Clinton...., that was a joke. Jerry >> Expressing the sense of Congress regarding the naming of aircraft carrier CVN-77, the last vessel of the historic `NIMITZ' class of aircraft carriers, as the U.S.S. Lexington. (Introduced in the Senate) SCON 84 IS 106th CONGRESS 2d Session S. CON. RES. 84 Expressing the sense of Congress regarding the naming of aircraft carrier CVN -77, the last vessel of the historic `NIMITZ' class of aircraft carriers, as the U.S.S. Lexington. IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES February 24, 2000 Mr. WARNER (for himself and Mr. INOUYE) submitted the following concurrent resolution; which was referred to the Committee on Armed Services << -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Naming ships after politicians How long will it be before we have a super carrier USS Clinton. Gawd, what a slap in the face to the folks who have given and risked their lives to defend this country. I hope the Navy stops naming ships of any class after politicians unless they have served HONORABLY in our nations (USA) military. Just my opinion. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: Re: CSS Alabama I've contended before that the ACW was the first *modern* war. Iron covered, steam powered ships, submarines, automatic weapons, trench warfare and aerial reconnaissance. But now, Danny really pegs it. The CSS Alabama had PLANES! Sorry, just couldn't resist. 8^) Mark Doremus Eden Prairie, MN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: SMML in San Francisco Hey guys, I'm getting an extended St. Patrick's Day weekend in San Francisco. Saturday and Sunday are going to be spent on the husbandly duties and sight seeing. But, Friday is all mine. I'll be staying at Fisherman's Wharf. I know SS 383 USS Pampanito is somewhere near there. How about other steel ships, ship museums, etc.? The Hornet is over in Oakland, isn't it? How bad a drive is that? TIA Mark Doremus in landlocked (but not snow free) Eden Prairie, MN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Model value The problem most of you will have in determining the value of a model is (as was mentioned earlier) what it would cost to replace the model. Insurance companies will require (at least mine does) a receipt from the company that built the model showing the charges. This is exactly why I started running the model building through Flagship Models. UPS, FedEx, etc., expect the same proof before they will insure models to be shipped. My suggestion to you is, if you do this as a hobby, treat it as second job. If you have an invoice for each model, it will be much easier to determine its value. That doesn't give you carte blanch to value 1/700 scale carrier for $3000.00. You must be within reason. I would suggest to get a Tyson's Replicas catalogue. They have special section on ship models and you can use that as a guide. It will also work in your favor if you can show other companies charge the same basic rate as you did to justify your estimate. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Darek's Texas value Yes, I agree that $3500.00 is a fair and reasonable evaluation for that model. If you include the awards with it, it might be worth a bit more. If I had the bucks, I'd buy it! Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: Naming Ships Thanks James I stand corrected - CONSTELLATION and CONSTELLATION-A Seriously, I bet we will never see those names on carriers again - but for what all the dicussion is worth - my vote would go for a new carrier named the USS BON HOMME RICHARD - to me that is name with a lot of history clear back to John Paul Jones. I too thought about the LANGLEY but she is just the first carrier and that is about it - may if we ever reach 100 CVs or something like that it might be nice. Mike NAVYDAZE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Affording resin kits I'm not suggesting everyone will do this, but you'll never know unless you ask. I have built models several times for resin manufacturers that want a first rate built model of theirs for fliers, instruction sheets, web sites etc. The word is barter. I built the ship in exchange for a kit of my choice from their product line. It works well for both of you. You can get an expensive kit that you normally couldn't afford by building one for the company. The company is out only the cost of the kit that they pay which is substantially less than retail. Give it a try. The world is run on Gaul, and all they can say is no. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: Art and Ship Models OK so here is one artist that feels art (paintings) and modeling are both art. I am amazed sometimes at what I see from modellers with their creations. Keep in mind that art is nothing more than an illusion. We "painters" want you to believe you can look "into" the canvas and see what we want you to see. A good modeller can make someone look at his work and see what he wants you to see. Both the "painter" and the modeller have the choice in deciding what subject, what color, what era he chooses to do. Now are we not talking about the same thing! To me we are!! Mike NAVYDAZE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Forrestal question I hope Joe Damato sees this. How are you going to replicate the flight deck? MB Models has photo etched decks which looks very realistic, but (as was mentioned here) tend to expand and contract causing the deck to break away from the model. A resin piece that big and thin will certainly have warping problems. Just curious. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "JODY KELM" Subject: bismarck paint chips why is it so hard to get a hold of the snyder and short company? I had asked them in an e-mail about a book that they had or will be publishing that was the ideal book for paint chips on the kriegsmarine.They never responded. What should I do? Be patient? Sincerely, Chris Kelm Hi Chris, I've never had any hassles with John replying to my emails. There is the possibility that the email bounced or got lost - it does happen :-(. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Matthew Prager" Subject: Re: Ships' battle ribbons Hi Doug, Try the Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships (DANFS) entry for the ship you wish to model. It normal lists the awards for a ship. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Tom Detweiler Subject: Re: Expensive models RE the rant from "feed" about expensive models in Chile and other places; maybe we can somehow set up the SMMLie Smuggling Underground (so SSU us!) to get kits from here to there? Just a thought. Tom in Rocklin, feeling soggy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Ismail Hassenpflug Subject: IJN Set II (E-5) continued Well, owing to some quirck of Windows, I managed to lose my previous draft.... hence the delay. Here goes again, conintuation of Skywave IJN Equipment Set II (E-5) translation. Front of instructions was done a while back, as was the first entry of seven on the reverese side. For some reason best known to the photo-copier crew at Pitroad, both sections on the reverse are identical, whether or not this should be the case I need to check out at a local store later on. In the meanwhile, here the remaining entries on the page: Entry 2: 50cal year 3 design number 1 20cm twin turret (C type) Main armament of Aoba and Kinugasa, 20cm guns grouped into twin turrets. Entry 3: 50cal year 3 design number 1 20cm twin turret (D type) Turrets used on the Myoko class,for the first time thermal insulation sheets were attached to the turret roofs. Two types of attachment design existed, the indented type of the Myoko, and the complete covering as on the Ashigara. Denoting the Myoko type by (M) and the Ashigara type by (A), we indicate the composition of turrets in the four ships of the class. To make the Ashigara type, just extend the sheeting with plastic card. Turret: 1 2 3 4 5 Myoko M M M M M Ashigara A A A A A Nachi M M A M A Haguro M M A M A Range Finders 47 46 - 46 - Furthermore, the rangefinders also received heat release holes. This set includes rnagefinders with holes (46) and without holes (47). The Myoko class had their main gun barrels rebored to use 20.3cm ammunition during modernization. The nominal 50cal was then in reality 49.26 calibres. Entry 4: 50cal year 3 design number 2 20cm twin turret (E type) The 20cm gun used up until that time was, compared to the 8 inch gun used by the great powers, almost 10% inferior in power, so from the Takao class onward 20.3cm guns were installed from the start. The E type was divided into versions for the Takao class, Furutaka class (E2) and Tone class (E3), although they were almost indistinguishable seen from the outside. In the Mogami class, becasue they replaced their 15.5cm turrets, the rollerpath was 68cm larger and other differences from the E type existed, but were difficult to tell from the outside. Furthermore, the Furutaka class like the Myoko class used rebored barrels, so use kit parts 40 for these. The E type had thermal insulation sheets on the turret sides as well as the roof, so you might as well paint the slits in. (I don't know what slits are referred to here, anyone??) Entry 5: 60cal 15.5cm triple high angle gun This high performance gun was developed for the Mogami class, which had to be commissioned as light cruisers. The Tone class too was planned to be equipped with them ,but with the lapse of the treaty they were commissioned mounting 20.3cm guns. Originally, it seems that the plan was to design the new battle ships with 20cm secondary guns and change to these at a later stage. The turrets used on the Yamato and Musashi, and as for the main armament of the Oyodo class light cruisers, had thermal insulation sheeting on the turret roofs and sides. Also, those mounted on the Yamato class had their rangefinders located further forward. Entry 6: 40cal 89 design 12.7cm twin high angle gun (shielded) The high angle gun was carried by a wide variety of the IJN's major vessels, among them a portion of heavy cruisers used this shielded version. Myoko, Ashigara, Nachi, Haguro after their second modernization, Mogami, Mikuma, Suzuya, Kumano, Tone, Chikuma as built carried this weapon. Entry 7: 50cal year 3 design 12.7cm twin turret (A type) Mounted on the Special Type I Type (destroyers), this was the first time IJN destroyers carried twin turrets. A twin mounting, the individual barrels could not elevate or depress independently. Well, that was the end of Set E-2. I will give the other sets a try during the next few days and post the translation on SMML. A note on the terminology I have used. 'shiki' I have translated as 'design', though 'model' would be equally fitting. 'go' is 'number' or I suppose 'version'. 'kata' is 'type' or 'class' in the case of ships. If there is a common terminology I should stick to, I would be glad to know about it. Best regards, Ismail Hassenpflug, MSc.Eng PhD 1st year: Ionospheric Physics Kyoto University, Radio Atmospheric Science Center -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Longevity Art and Ship Models Having come from a family of artist, dad's been a teacher, and museum director, mom was a ballerina and painter, sister manages the graphics dept. at Denver's WB channel 2 (TV), I would agree with Dave on these points. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I be holden her. I have always thought that art is something created, in good taste, by anyone, that is fun or interesting to look at and or enjoy. Its value is increased with longevity. Steve Classic Warships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Naming of U.S. Navy Ship >> The writer of this thread is correct in citing political expediency in naming the later Nimitz-class ships. One cannot help feel that this is one result of more and more members of Congress not having served in the military and having no appreciation of the traditions of the Naval and Military services. It is demeaning to the Naval service to name its captial warships after politicians. Many manbers of Congress have been honored by the naming of destroyers (traditionally named after heroes of the sea services, inventors who benefitted the navy and members of Congress who supported the sea services). Rep. Carl Vinson and Sen. John Stennis were both prominent members of Congress whose support of the militiay in general and Navy in particular were legendary - but they should have destroyers not carriers. Naval ships should honor the nation: states, cities, rivers and other geographical features. Naval ships should honor the nation's history: Valley Forge, Chosin, Normandy. Naval ships should honor the history of the Navy: Constellation, Coral Sea, Midway, Decatur, John Paul Jones. >> For almost two decades naval aviation was encapsulated in two names: Lexington and Saratoga. For the first time in almost three quarters of a century there is no Lex or Sara in the fleet. Instead we have the Reagan and Truman. The officers and sailors of the Navy have fought from one end of the earth to the other for over two hundred years, they deserve so serve on ships whose names reflect that history or service and sacrifice. << Why is it OK to name a ship after John Paul Jones but not FDR? Both stood by the Navy in its time of need. One was a foreign captain of a navy vessel, the other stood by the Navy during the depression and built it up to the point where it could sustain the heavy losses of the first year of the war and continue to fight. If not for FDR, the ESSEX and other classes of ships would not have been under construction during 1941 and we would have been out of the war at Guadalcanal and have settled for peace with Japan having lost the Philippines, Guam, Wake and thousands of lives. Reagan could be justified in the same manner, if not for his leadership and dedication tot he 600 ship fleet, we could not have stopped Iraq from plowing through Saudi Arabia in Sept. 90 ... sure the 101st was there, but 10,000 soldier without armor or air support would have been nothing but a speed bump for the Republican Guard. It was the presence of 2 CVBGs, with 200 aircraft and nearly as many TLAMs that forced Saddam to reconsider his stated aims. Truman killed the USS UNITED STATES not once but TWICE!!! His leadership tried to eliminate Naval Aviation in toto. In 1948 he ordered the cancellation of the USS US to build bombers, but what saved the day in 1950? It damned sure wasn't the USAF and their out-of-range Japanese bases. It was sea power centered upon the CVBG. Truman, or his memory, killed the second USS US when Clinton got the CVN renamed. He deserves no ship (short of a YSR - Yard, Sludge Removal Barge) named after him. Congress needs to have a naming system forced upon them by the DoN, but as long as there are few $$ and many needs this will never happen. I do not like the political apparatus controlling the military to such a degree. What happened to the days when Congress just ponied up the money and the services got to name their systems whatever they wanted. I can see the next replacement system (in any service) being named for somebody in a key congressional district instead of a military hero (and ships are not the only victim here) ... the B-3 Boxer Bomber because it would be built in California, the M-5 Bush MBT because it is built in Texas AND Florida, the Lockheed C-48A Gingrich Airlifter from right here in Marietta Georgia, etc. In the long run, if we have to name CVX-78 after Slick Willy, I will be personally sickened it and it might kill morale, but at least we will have another new hull and my children or grandchildren will not have to go to sea in the hopelessly outdated Enterprise. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Allan and Crystal Plumb Subject: Re: Definition of "Battleship" >> Another point in the article sez that Battleships are traditionally ships whose main battery is 8.5" or greater. I suppose that means the Alaskas, Panzerschiffs, Hood and other "Battlecruisers," "Large Cruisers," and "Pocket Battleships" are really just variatnions of the basic battleship. Well, I'll rest easier knowing that this subject has finally been settled! << Nah, we can still argue about it. I saw that too, and wondered where he got it from. Somebody somewhere may have made up that definition, but that doesn't mean they made it stick outside their own bailiwick. His definition only applies to us if we all agree to it, and I don't. To paraphrase an old joke, "If you ask five people to define battleship you'll get five definitions, unless one of them went to Harvard then you'll get six." (For full disclosure, I went to UC Berkeley. _There_ you'd get seventeen.) _I_ consider Strasbourg to be a battlecruiser, and Gniesenau to be a light battleship. But I don't expect to form a consensus, and don't really care. They're just names, and remember what Shakespeare said about that. Allan Plumb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Re: Longeivity Art and Ship Models Tibetan monks will often spend days creating elaborate sand paintings only to sweep them away when they are done. The process of creation is a meditation; the destruction of the result is symbolic of life's temporal nature. Not all art is about permanence. The Dada art movement, for example, essentially was a revolt against the perceived calcification of establishment art. It was a wake up call that there are other ways of seeing. Even though much of their work has survived, it was not meant to last. Most scale modelers, however, do want their efforts to survive. Anything worth doing is worth doing to the best of one's ability, and that includes using the best materials available to ensure the longevity of the tangible result. So far, so good. But no matter how skilled the modeler is, the product of his or her efforts is not art. Art is an interpretive process that filters the world through the artist's mind into a representation that invites insight and a new way of seeing what and who we are. One of the points of SMML is to help fellow ship modelers attain greater accuracy in our craft. Approaching a ship model from an artist's perspective would have the opposite effect. Adding a subtle twist, for example, to a waterline hull might trick the human brain into "seeing" the vessel rolling on its molded-water base, but it would make the model less accurate. Being a skilled craftsman is a high aspiration, worthy of that name. Just because some misguided individuals think that "artist" is the next rank above "craftsman" does not make it so. They are different. It is possible to be both and prudent to realize when to be one or the other. By the way, not all artists are craftsmen. One can argue that primitivists and certain ethnic artists lack serious technical skills, but their work is no less inspiring. That is not to say that an artist need not be a craftsman. I have seen many museum-exhibited works that suffer mightily from that lack. The alluded to exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum is a case in point. The merits, or lack of same of that exhibition, however, take us far afield from SMML. I am proud to call myself a craftsman. I use my craft when I create my art, and I use my craft when I scratch-build or kit-build scale models, and, though I utilize art when I display a model in a diorama, model making remains a skilled craft.. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Adapting shop tools for hobby? I am a tool junkie and can never resist a bargain. Today there was a sale on an air grease gun for CDN$19.95 and its of an excellent tradesman's quality. It has a steel cylinder to hold the standard 14 oz grease cartridge. A spring loaded plunger at the bottom end feeds the cartridge grease into the pistol grip grease gun. The gun's pressure injector - a 1/4 inch diameter steel piston rammer with a 2 inch stroke delivers 1,200 to 6,000 psi when supplied with 30 psi to 150 psi compressed air. I haven't worked on or done any resin casting but this seems an excellent tool to use for injecting fresh resin into molds for small complex parts as it has enough injection pressure to force the thick resin into the smallest crevices. Similarly there is also an air caulking gun ( trademan's quality) which has a lower delivery pressure but pushes out a larger volume. One caulking job around the house was more than enough to justify its cost, also around CDN $20. This gun could possibly be used for injection resin into larger molds. The only problem so far is I haven't found a source for empty grease cartridges or caulking cartridges for holding resin with which to experiment. For another tool, the real pièce de résistance, was a home made plastics injection machine I once saw at an injection plastic business. The owner was a former electrician and he had this Rube Goldberg contraption at the corner of the store that caught my eye. He made this before he decided to get into the plastics business. The key component was a scrap 2 inch ID stainless steel tube heated by a heat band (available from: Injection Molders Supply Co. 10373 Stafford Rd. Chagrin Falls, OH 44023-56296 [ph216-543-1615 or 1-800-537-5375]). To force the melted plastic out into a mold he used an air cylinder actuator. Styrene beads were screw fed from a side hopper, the screw feed being powered by a 1/4 in electric drill. Pressure to hold the mold halves together was provided by a screw vise to which he attached a 1/2 inch drill so that he could open and close the vise quicker. While going through a jewelers' equipment catalogue (Eisinger Enterprises - SHOR Canada, pg 14) I came across just such a bench plastic injector machine, of course much prettified but basically the same set up. Well we all have tons of plastic sprues left over from kits. This homemade plastic injector seems a doable project that I may get around to doing someday. I have even found an article that described how to use the rotary cutter from a wood jointer, house that into a cast iron drainage pipe (that's how old the article is) to make a safe shredder with which you can shred any scrap plastic for feedstock. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Andy Hampa Subject: USN Warship Camouflage Hi All, I Know it has been said before but I wish to say it again, many thanks to John Sheridan and to all of those at USN Warship Camouflage. Truly an indespensible resource. Thanks, Andy Hampa -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Bill & Kaja Michaels" Subject: RC parts for 1/350 Battleships >> 1. I was just thinking about what would be an acceptable scale speed for a 1/350 scale ship. << My advice: Forget the math, go for what looks right. Remember, you can't scale time, and you can't scale water molecules. If you want to run your model at what looks to be scale speed, start with a photo that shows the ship (or some other of similar size) and try to match the wave/wake pattern. At 1/350 scale, you're really too small to do serious scale speed calculations, IMHO. Concerning the powerplant: A single, larger screw will give much better performance than several tiny screws. I'd go with 2 larger than scale screws in this model. Remember, they won't look overscale to an 11 year old! If you're looking for an off-the-shelf powerplant, contact AW-RC. (They advertise in Scale Ship Modeler.) He sells a number of mini-motor/shaft/screw combos for RC conversions of plastic models. Good luck with your project-- feel free to drop me a note if you have RC related questions.... Bill Check out my US Coast Guard subjects model list at: http://www.tiac.net/users/billkaja/kitlist.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: SJantscher@aol.com Subject: Yamato book on e-bay Hi Guys, This evening while doing my normal search on e-bay, I came across the Skulski Yamato book. Since I already have it, I though those Yamato-holics might like a chance at this very good but sometimes hard to find Yamato reference. It is at: http://cgi.ebay.aol.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=279393120 Good Luck Steve Jantscher PS- No, you can't have mine! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Robert & Rose Brown Subject: Butch O'Hare Hi John: The information on O'Hare comes from Lundstrom's book, The First Team, starting on Page 103. I don't know that it is re-writing history as opposed to just resolving all the various claims and counter-claims. He states that there were only 8 Betty's and O'Hare cut 5 of them out of the formation, 2 of which crashed immediately, one tried to kamikaze the Lexington but crashed short, one was damaged and ditched on the way back, and the fifth one landed damaged at Rabaul. A magnificent feat of aerial gunnery to say the least! At the time, everyone thought with some justification that he got all 5 outright, which is the number he was credited with and the number on his Medal of Honour citation (which he richly deserves, in my opinion). According to ship board observers, O'Hare was credited with 6, but he reduced that to 5 himself. In summary, 8 Bettys attacked. 2 returned to Rabaul, 2 ditched, one was shot down by Doc Sellstrom, that would leave 3 for O'Hare along with credit for one of the 2 that ditched. The other ditched aircraft was shot up by an SBD. Just giving you what is printed, I don't pretend to be an expert. I don't mean to degrade O'Hare's feat either, he and the rest of the USN fighter pilots were among the best trained in the world and deserve all sorts of credit for those early Pacific battles. Lundstrom's 2 books give them some long overdue credit. To quote Rear Admiral Bill Leonard (who flew Wildcats from the Yorktown in those early days) from the book's forward "I am grateful to John Lundstrom for the chance he gave me to help dig out and expose to light material that shows how it was....He gave me a chance to do something better than grumpily watching time run out, fuming the while over deficiencies of historians treatment of this period" unquote. I know what he means, I've read most of the other books available on the subject, and none offer this kind of in-depth analysis. If Lundstrom has changed his account of the battle in light of new information, I guess that would be the more correct version, I haven't seen that particular book. Butch O'Hare was lost at sea from the USS Enterprise in November 1943 while pioneering and leading a night interception mission, a great loss to his country and a sad end for such a dynamic and likeable person. Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Flower Class Book Snyder & Short Enterprises is offering this and all WRPress books. The Flower book is being shipped to us today, so should be available next week. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "TomsModelworks@att.net" Subject: Bismarck and Tirpitz sets in 1/350 and 1/400 scales New from Tom's Modelworks "Bismarck and Tirpitz sets in 1/350 and 1/400 scales 1/350 sets #3512 (Bismarck) #3519 (Tirpitz) 1/400 sets #4006 (Bismarck) #4010 (Tirpitz) Each set is $18.00 and provides rails. crane parts, hanger door faces, radars, catapults, catapult cover plates etc. The Tirpitz sets provide the radar fit through 1944 (FuMO23, FuMO26, FuMB4, FuMB7 units) Each set contains the parts for one complete kit. All sets designed to fit the kit not same artwork printed to scale. Available directly from us, with free shipping if you mention the SMML page or Pacific Front Hobbies. Special thanks to all the SMML members that helps with the research to design these sets. For you 1/1250 modelers two new sets will be available in about 10 days. We have several new sets in the layout stage now and will be announcing them on the SMML page as they become available. example: A 1/700 Scale set to provide parts to do any Atlanta Class Cruiser, "radars, crane, depth charge racks, rails etc." Thanks to the W.R. Press book on the Atlanta Cruisers by Glenn Arnold. Which is a must if your interested in that class of Cruiser. Tom Tel/Fax: 408.777.8667 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Bill Gruner Subject: NEW ARRIVALS from PACIFIC FRONT Here's some new stuff that has come in: BOOKS: WARSHIP PERSPECTIVE SERIES 3#, Flower Class Corvettes, by John Lambert...29.00 "USS Los Angeles CA-135 - Cold War Sentinel", by Pictorial histories...$9.50 KITS: Kobo-Hiryu 1/700 scale resin kit A-25 Imperial Japanese Minelayer Hatsutaka...18.00 Kobo-Hiryu 1/700 resin kit A-26 Imperial Japanese Minelayer Wakataka.....16.00 Kobo-Hiryu 1/700 resin kit H-1 Imperial Japanese Battlecruiser Ibuki (1909).....59.00 Kobo-Hiryu 1/700 Resin Kit H-3 Imperial Japanese Battleship Settsu (1912)....62.00 1/1250 Models: Argos (Germany): USS Long Beach (Nice!)...5 left in stock, and going fast...NEW....79.00 Argonaut (Germany) USS Pennsylvania (1937)....49.00 Argonaut USS Indianapolis (1939).....39.00 Coming Soon: Neptun (Germany): USS Wichita, USS Nashville, and USS Helena, all WW2. Albatros (Germany): Japanese Freighter Terukuni Maru and RN Battleship HMS Vanguard (1947)...(April) Thank you, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com phone: 541-464-8579 fax: 541-957-5477 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: WTB: Morrison US Naval Operations of WWII.VOLS 2,4,13, and 14 Hi Guys I am looking for anyone who has the following books for sale of the Morrison US Naval Operations of WWII.VOLS 2,4,13, and 14. Outside book can be rough but the inside must be in good condition and I'll pay at 15.00 per book. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Bowring@aol.com Subject: USS Yorktown Aegis Cruiser Dear Model biters I'm loking for the USS Yorktown (CG 48) the Aegis Cruiser. The model has to have very good detal and an exact replica of the warship. I want it to float in the water. If you do have one, I will buy it from you. My address is: Cameron Gabriel 200 Crowson rd Ashland Or 97520. Thank you Cameron Gabriel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume