Subject: SMML VOL 848 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 01:36:45 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: USN Warship Camouflage 2: Upcoming JAG 1/350th Forrestal 3: Re: C.S.S. Alabama 4: What is a Battleship 5: Re: Naming of USN ships 6: Re: Definition of "Battleship" 7: Re: Ships in the San Francisco 8: Value/apprasial/insurance 9: Re: Butch O'Hare 10: Re: CSS Alabama 11: naming of USN hulls 12: Re: Naming of Carriers 13: Rusty White's constant badgering on the Forrestal 14: Naming of Ships 15: Re: Darek's Texas value 16: 1/350 New Jersey 17: Re: Scale Warship Speed for R/C 18: Re: Yamaholic 19: Re: SMML in San Francisco 20: Re: Snyder and Short web site 21: Re: bismarck paint chips 22: Art & Ship Models 23: Re: BATTLESHIP BISMARCK Books 24: Re: Naming carriers 25: SMML in San Francisco 26: Naming of Ships 27: Re: Naming USN ships 28: Buff Color 29: Bon Homme Richard 30: Scale Speed 31: Resin kits 32: Staying in San Francisco 33: Tools 34: Re: Naming USN ships 35: Re: Naming Ships 36: Oil Prices, not completely OT(T) 37: Karel Doorman article -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Ship Model Kits for Sale 2: New Gold Medal Models website open -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: USN Warship Camouflage >> I Know it has been said before but I wish to say it again, many thanks to John Sheridan and to all of those at USN Warship Camouflage. Truly an indespensible resource. << Thank-you for the kind words Andy. Just wait till you see what comes next................. (I'm working on it right now) John R. Sheridan What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 The last place on earth I would look for the Lumber Cartel(tm) is http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Upcoming JAG 1/350th Forrestal O.k. guys, now that Joe has announced his 1/350th Forrestal kit, I'm curious as to what you would like to see in this kit. Here's some questions: Detail Level? Era depicted? Aircraft loadouts detail level/options of aircraft? Decals? Cost? Here's my answers: Detail Level: As high as possible w/lots of photo-etch and a resin flight deck (brass too diffcult to work with) Era depicted: Late 50s - early 60s (time when my Uncle served on her as a A-1D crew chief) Aircraft loadouts: A-1Ds Skyraiders, A-3s Whales, A-4s Sykhawk, F7-Us Cutlass, F3 Demons, F4D Skyrays detail level/options of aircraft: Very high w/drop tanks, bomb loads, etc. Decals: Complete set for aircraft wings, full set for ship and deck striping. Cost: $500.00 - $750.00 John R. Sheridan What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 Last last place on earth I would look for the Lumber Cartel(tm) is http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: DWa7000007@aol.com Subject: Re: C.S.S. Alabama Mark, Sorry for the type-o, I meant to say plans. And no, I'm not confusing the old Confederate curser with the USS Battle ship Alabama. Danny Walden -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Peter & Donna Mispelkamp" Subject: What is a Battleship Once Germany announced plans to build her "Deutschlands" the signatory powers of the Washington Naval agreement of 1922 saw their worst fears emerging into reality, i.e. a "super-cruiser" with guns superior to any cruiser extant and be faster than any battleship. They apparently tried to get Germany to abandon plans for these ships, but Germany's counter-proposal was too steep a price a price - becoming a signatory to the original Washington Agreement with rights equal to those of France or Italy. To counter the possible spread of this type of ship in other signatory fleets, the Naval Treaty of London 1936 stipulated that any ship mounting guns greater than 8" and displacing more than 10,000 tons had to be counted against the allowable battleship tonnage of that nation. They still left the door open a little, by allowing the construction of 8,000 ton cruisers with 11" guns - but reasoned that such a ship was technologically impossible at that time. Hope this helps. Peter K. H. Mispelkamp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Naming of USN ships >> I do not like the political apparatus controlling the military to such a degree. << While it's not perfect, it's the best system in the world. I will always maintain it's best for civilian control of the military. We may have to endure some political shenanigans, but it's worth it. There's always a price. >> What happened to the days when Congress just ponied up the money and the services got to name their systems whatever they wanted. << I'm not sure this was ever the case. But it was a little more subtle. States and cities with the most political clout got ships named after them. In peace-time, even destroyers were named at the behest of political powers. (And I wouldn't be surprised if some political maneuvering was involved during the war either.) Fact is, politics infuses our culture, a lot more than we realize. I've grown accustomed to the political nature of our culture, what worries me is if the commercial nature of our culture influences the naming of ships the way it has sports, i.e.: Poulan Weedeater-class Destroyers Burger King-class Frigates IBM-Class Carriers (shudder) Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Definition of "Battleship" It is interesting to note that the Washington Treaty of 1922 did not even mention battleships or battlecruisers (or should it be battle cruisers?). It referred to all ships having guns of greater caliber than 8 inch as "Capital Ships". This obviously included both battleships and battlecruisers and by this definition the German so-called "Pocket Battleships" Admiral Scheer and her sisters would later come under this same umbrella even though Germany was not covered by the Washington Treaty. The boundary between battleships and battlecruisers is a gray one since it must take into consideration such things as armor and speed in addition to gunpower. Perhaps we should not attempt to differentiate but use the term "Capital Ship" for both. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ships in the San Francisco Mark, The USS HORNET is on the other side of the bay at Alameda - real close though and well worth the trip to see her - they have done a great job of restoring her. On the San Francisco side is the Liberty ship J. O'BRIEN (sp?) a liberty ship - they keep moving her but you should be able to find her - usually under they Bay Bridge somewhere. Also across the Golden Gate bridge in Sausalito - is the RED OAK VICTORY that is being restored - Now did everyone get that - yes we have a Victory ship and a Liberty ship and an Aircraft Carrier and a submarine - NOT bad for Hippie country (smirk). Additionally you can also see President Roosevelt's Presidential Yatch at Jack London Square in Oakland. I understand someday in the future they may even get the USS DRUM at the old Mare Island Shipyard Anyway Mark look on you city map for a place call "Lands End" there you will see the bridge wings of the USS SAN FRANCISCO that was removed from her after her famous battle - it is very sobering to see those large holes in them were the Japanese shells passed thru. Mark - enjoy yourself here and ah . . don't talk to strangers as they are all that - some more than others - believe me !!! Mike Donegan NAVYDAZE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: BECJPARKER@aol.com Subject: Value/apprasial/insurance As there has been a number of questions, answers and speculation about value, appraisal, and insurance for ship models I thought a site where a more definitive answer could be found may be of interest to readers. If you will go to the Nautical Research Guild site at: http://www.naut-res-guild.org and look under Ship Model Insurance & Consignment Protection and Professional Ship Modeler, you will find the answers to many of the questions that have been asked and clarification about much of the speculation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: pugs99@att.net Subject: Re: Butch O'Hare Hi Rob, Thanks very much for the details on Butch O'Hare. I have just recently "discovered" Lundstrom's books and, while I haven't read his Bio on O'Hare yet, I was basing the info on a synopsis from the book which still says "5". I have always had a very big interest in (should I even say it) Naval Aircraft and do build them (yes, I admit it) especially the planes of the aces. I thought I had read just about everything on O'hare and then I find there are at least 3 more books to read!!! Thanks for your info and input. I wasn't trying to imply that you were belittling his feat; probably one of the greatest single aerial combat accomplishments in history. I was more interested in the source as I want to read it. Thanks again! John Impenna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: pugs99@att.net Subject: Re: CSS Alabama Hi All, I think it's great that Revell is re-releasing the CSS Alabama. I have already ordered one as I have missed out on this kit since I was a "kid". I understand it is very accurate except for the info tha was discovered in the photos; 2 Phalanx CIWS port and starboard aft, just to either side of the helopad. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Robert OConnor Subject: naming of USN hulls SMMLies, The thread of naming US carriers in the future has been an interesting one, indeed. As for me, I'd like to see Lex or Saratoga again. Unfortunately, Essex is already in use (my personal favorite). We all know we'll see another Enterprise in the next decade. As for the USS William Jefferson Clinton, that hull should be the namesake for a new class of "entertainment support ships" providing all sorts of "services" to the future fleet. This class of ship would be named for all those public figures who brought disgrace and infamy to our government and nation. it would have the Oval Office anteroom/hallway service, the Lincoln Bedroom entertainment complex,and the Senator Hillary New York Home for wayward sailors. Just a thought. Bob O'Connor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Paul Jacobs Subject: Re: Naming of Carriers >> Reagan could be justified in the same manner, if not for his leadership and dedication to the 600 ship fleet, we could not have stopped Iraq from plowing through Saudi Arabia in Sept. 90 ... sure the 101st was there, but 10,000 soldier without armor or air support would have been nothing but a speed bump for the Republican Guard. It was the presence of 2 CVBGs, with 200 aircraft and nearly as many TLAMs that forced Saddam to reconsider his stated aims. << Give me a break!!! We didn't need a 600 ship navy to stop Sadam! That's ridiculous. We have sufficient naval forces today with half the number of ships to accomplish the same thing. What's more, we had this great big navy, yet a wholly inadequate minesweeping capability. If the Iraqi's had had a mine warefare capability near that of the Soviets, the navy would have been in big trouble. So who gets blamed for that? Reagan? If anyone deserves credit it's Bush for creating and maintaining the international coalition that prosecuted the war. That was a great accomplishment. Absent that, it wouldn't have mattered how many carrier battle groups we could place in the Persian Gulf. Having said that, the practice of naming carriers after politicians is regrettable. Some of these names (VINSON, STENNIS) have no meaning whatsover to Americans, and others are divisive. I look forward to ships with great names like LEXINGTON and SARATOGA again. Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Joe Damato" Subject: Rusty White's constant badgering on the Forrestal Yes Rusty, I saw your post. The Deck will be laser cut out of 1/8 acrylic much like our Stealth Carrier Deck. The edge of the flight deck will be molded into the hull and a small 1/8 lip with a ledge will seat the cutting. All you will have to do is drop the deck in, run a bit of thin super glue or Weld-on 3 around the edge and sand smooth. The deck edge will be about .010 proud of the deck so you have something to sand down. Buy using the laser cut deck (I have my own 2'x3' co2 laser) and hanger deck you get zero sagg and internal structural support all in one...pretty clever uh? As with all of our kits, we practically build it for you, so this one should go together well. John Sheridan will be doing the decals for the air wing re 1956 for the first issue. The hanger deck will be there, but very little detail so we can produce them cheep enough for you to buy them. I don't want to be the only one who builds them you know! As for your offer, it sound good..I'll be in touch. Thanks! Best Joe of JAG -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Subject: Naming of Ships Hi folks, USS Bill Clinton, eh, well you never know. But surely a Nimitz class carrier is too valuable an assett to be caught with its pants down. And yes there was a lot of complaining among the Royal Naval personnel a while back about ship naming policy, with the trend deteriorating from dashing and aggresive handles, down to ships being named after shopping malls. All the Best Peter Hall -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Darek's Texas value >> Yes, I agree that $3500.00 is a fair and reasonable evaluation for that model. If you include the awards with it, it might be worth a bit more. If I had the bucks, I'd buy it! Rusty White << Having seen the Texas model myself, and knowing just a LITTLE about this sort of thing, the actual appraised value of this particular model is more like $5,000 to $6,000. The reason why is, what would it take to replace it? What would you have to pay to have a comparable model built? Just one of the persons I know, who is a professional model builder, that's all he does, would charge, and gets it, somewhere in the vicinity of what I said. Some people might say that these prices are too high, but my friend (I do actually have two dogs), the model builder, is booked solid for the next couple of years. His work is that good. For proof, go to my web page @ www.classicwarships.simplenet.com and look at the model gallery. So, Derek, call me if you need some more info. Steve Wiper Classic Warships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Peter Sketchley" Subject: 1/350 New Jersey Hello All, Does anyone know what the new Revell kit is like and what "Fit" is detailed? Also, where can I find a review of the Tamiya kit, preferably online? Many thanks Best Regards Peter Sketchley Duxford Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Edd Pflum Subject: Re: Scale Warship Speed for R/C I often pondered the question of 'Scale Speed' and used the metaphor supplied, i.e. it would take the full-size ship 20 seconds to pass a fixed point, therefore the model (effectively being the full-size ship at a greater distance, if you get my point) should also take 20 seconds. However, the people who do tank-towing experiments use a scale speed that is the square root of the scale (i.e. ???1/350????? This is the speed at which the model hull exhibits the same wave-making behavior as the full-size ship. Apparently our minds find the wave-making more suggestive of full-scale speed than the lower speed of the first example, and this is the speed model should use for scale-like appearance on the water. 1/350 ~ 0.0028 ???1/350????0.0534 30 Miles Per Hour = 44 Feet Per Second 44 Feet Per Second x 0.0534 = 2.35 Ft/Sec Scale Speed 880 Ft x 1/350 = 2.5 Ft So it will take a little over a second for the model to pass a fixed object, but it will appear to be moving at full-speed. Try it, you'll like it! Edd Pflum (With motorized boat experience going back to the bathtub.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Edd Pflum Subject: Re: Yamaholic >> I'm a Yamaholic, BTW is there a 12 step help group for us? "Doc" Bob << Doc, Unfortunately, the only programs I am aware of at this time involve building NASCAR stockers, and ship modelers do not adapt well to them. There used to be a program that tried to interest Yamaholics in building US Escort Carriers, but the Yamaholics kept sinking them and the program was dropped. Edd -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: SMML in San Francisco You'll find the Liberty Ship SS JEREMIAH O'BRIEN in San Francisco. HORNET is easy to find across the Bay in Alameda; you should be able to get concise directions from the folks at the PAMPANITO or the O'BRIEN. It will take you--depending on traffic on the Bay Bridge--30 to 45 minutes to get there. If you have time, you could also drive a bit further up to Richmond and visit the Victory Ship SS RED OAK VICTORY, just beginning the restoration process but open to the public. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Snyder and Short web site >> why is it so hard to get a hold of the Snyder and short company? << Go to the Warship site and scroll down. You'll find the Snyder and Short icon. I have never had any trouble at all contacting them. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: bismarck paint chips >> why is it so hard to get a hold of the snyder and short company? I had asked them in an e-mail about a book that they had or will be publishing that was the ideal book for paint chips on the kriegsmarine.They never responded. What should I do? Be patient? << Hi Chris, For the life of me, I don't recall getting an e-mail from you. On the other hand, if you happened to send it in January while I was in Tahiti, my e-mail in-box filled up at 832 messages and began boucing all other incoming mail. At any rate, we won't be publishing any books but will be releasing a Kreigsmarine paint chip set later this year--probably around the end of summer (Regia Marina set will be next up, likely around June). For the moment if you're looking for a book on DKM camouflage, your best bet is: June, Dieter, Arno Abendroth, and Norbert Kelling. _Anstriche und Ternanstriche der deutschen Kriegsmarine_. Schrobenhausen: MB Verlagsdruck, 1977. Text is German, but there is at least one edition with English captions on the photos. I hope this helps, and apologize for any earlier mixup in e-mails, no matter what the cause. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Art & Ship Models A person can define "art" to exclude or include anything he/she wants. Some people imply that an "accurate" (yeah, there's another definition open to debate) portrayal of reality cannot be "art". Yet this definition would exclude entire galleries full of paintings, not to mention portraits, armor, costume, carvings and furniture at the most esteemed art museums in the world. And if model ships are out then what about photos? Classical sculptures? Movies? So why the exclusivity? Currently, the definition of fine "art" seems to be based on pecuniary and political reasons. It works like this: a tiny handful of influential critics dictate what is "art" in order to gain attention for certain "artists" and set artificially high market prices on their works. Furthermore they seek to exclude from that market a large mass of "hacks" who produce items that might actually please the eyes of "the ignorant". Then Elmer J. Fudd, millionaire, hears about the controversey, reads the critics mumbo jumbo and reaches for his checkbook. He hangs the now famous Million Dollar Elephant Dung Painting in his mansion and everybody with a hand in the conspiracy gains. Naturally the next esteemed painting must be even more disgusting and shocking, since the pervious one raised the bar a notch. A product of my feverish imagination? Some permanent outdoor sculptures put in public places in NYC have been so outrageously ugly that they were removed as a result of mass petition and protest. That is the ultimate achievement for the modern artist-- to have his completely unacceptable work accepted by a committee with access to piles of taxpayer money. Its just a big con game; the emperor's new clothes, Elmer Fudd collecting art. Now to the point! A ship model is an artificial construction that resembles a full sized ship, just as some colored oils on a canvas resemble a three dimesional image. They both may evoke an emotional reaction from the viewer, or cause him to be removed from his immediate reality, suspend his disbelief, daydream, etc. A ship model is the artists interpretation of a life-size object, and is made up of from not only raw materials but ALSO an infinite number of the builder's personal decisions and selections, conscious or unconscious. It a suggestion of reality open to the viewer's interpretation. Complete accuracy or blatant innacuracy reflect someting of the builders mentality, perception, intentions and skill. Not an art form? And why does it matter? I believe the issue of a narrow definition artificially depresses the value of excellent model ships in the art market. They are superb things of significance and appeal, but still they are worth less than a smear of elephant sh*t. AND DAT AIN'T RITE! Dave PS No, I don't build for a living, only wish I did. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "jmaze" Subject: Re: BATTLESHIP BISMARCK Books From SMML VOL 827: (I'm a bit behind in my reading ;->) >> I was hoping you could help me in my search for any books, technical drawings, plans/blueprints ANYTHING on the battleship Bismarck. Also I had received e-mail from a friend telling me about this book on paint schemes for the Bismarck. This is the name in German " Anstriche und Tarnanstriche der deutschen Kriegsmarine" (ISBN 3-7637-5964-6) The ISBN number is of the second printing in 1997 you should be able to find it. I believe if my German is correct I believe translated, to "Camouflage and paint schemes of the German navy" I think? not sure. But the title in German is correct. Please keep me informed on the status of your progress. << For books on German subjects, try Kaiser-Telebuch mail order in Germany: http://www.mail-order-kaiser.de/E/ (English-version homepage) The book Chris referenced is available from them for DM58 (about US$28.57). I have purchased a couple books from them and have been satisfied with the service. Shipping isn't too bad either. JohnM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Naming carriers Hi Guys In regard to naming carriers there is a USS Bon vivant Richard -a Wasp Class LHD and there has been a USS Franklin Roosevelt -a Midway class carrier(1945-80) it's ashame but there was supposed to be a USS United States but it was changed to either the Truman or Reagan. I'd like to see a more traditional name used like LANGLEY, Lexington, Cabot, Wright, Card, Gambier Bay, United States, or Ranger. But I guess since the politicians control the budget and the Republicans and Democrats constantly fight this was compromise solution. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: cfrieden@calpoly.edu Subject: SMML in San Francisco >> I'm getting an extended St. Patrick's Day weekend in San Francisco. Saturday and Sunday are going to be spent on the husbandly duties and sight seeing. But, Friday is all mine. I'll be staying at Fisherman's Wharf. I know SS 383 USS Pampanito is somewhere near there. How about other steel ships, ship museums, etc.? The Hornet is over in Oakland, isn't it? How bad a drive is that? << Mark, Pampanito is at Fisherman's Wharf. The Hornet is at the Alameda; I have only driven there from San Francisco once, and the traffic was not too bad. But then it’s the Bay Area, so you never know! FDR’s yacht Potomac is also at the Alameda. Also, there is the Liberty Ship Jeremiah O’Brien, down at Pier 32. I don't want to provide too much temptation, but third weekend of the month is steaming weekend on the O'Brien, when they fire up the boilers (but not on Friday). BTW, I will probably be in San Francisco Friday afternoon, I hope to visit the Jeremiah O'Brien and Pampanito. If you want more info on getting around and hours email me off list (I may even be able to dig up free passes for Pampanito). Chris Friedenbach -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "William Oreto" Subject: Naming of Ships I agree that there should be some historical or heroic basis in the naming of ships. But I believe the civilian politicians named thus far fall into both categories. I have never served in the military (except an ROTC program). I resent the attitude of veterans who think they know best on what to name a floating extension of my political will. I gather veterans believe a lack of military service makes a person untrustworthy or ignorant of this country's military affairs and history. What arrogance! The Reagans, Stennis-es, Forrestals and Vinsons fought battles where there were no medals, ribbons or after actions reports. That history barely remembers their contributions is whose fault? That a ship is named Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton is not important. It only represents a right to disagree with our internal politics that other American men and women have paid for with their lives. I could care less if the ship was named the "The Mighty Ducks". What is important to a ship, is she combat ready? Is she proper supplied with material and trained sailors and outstanding leadership? Is she ready to go in "harm's way" at a moments notice to fight for a supply line of cheap crude oil for our allies or rescue American Nationals? Will she safely bring home our fathers, mothers, sons and daughters as well as inflict maximum damage upon the USA's enemies? There is no doubt that our society and its values are in constant change. This we have to accept. The document that allows this change remains the same. Its called the Constitution. Does a name matter or the existence of the ship, well supplied, well trained and with good morale matter? I have heard many sailors call their ships everything but its proper name. I would rather have the physical existence of the ship and I'll dog rob and boost the rest. Let us concentrate on the building of more ships that will expand our freedoms and ideology over three quarters of the earth's surface without intimidation or fear. I don't think that's so bad, do you (yeah , yeah I know the US and it allies have faults but---)? Some people worry about ships and their names. I guess they forget that society marches on and forgets it roots such as military victories and heroes. Unforgivable, but understandable especially in a free society, made so by many people in uniform. I can only apologize to these men and women. One Captain didn't care what the ship was named. He wanted a ship. To paraphrase John Paul Jones' quote "Give me a fast ship for I intend to go in harm's way". Should we waste our time with this debate about names? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: Naming USN ships >> I would hate to see CVN-77 named Bill Clinton...., that was a joke. << And what if we had a SSN to go with the above named carrier, called the USS MONICA LEWINSKY. Chuck The UNMENTIONABLE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Buff Color A couple of ships that I am building (1890s types) call for the color "Buff" on the funnels and large areas of the superstructure . . . so what the hell is "Buff". Any suggestions would be appreciated. Currently I am using a Testor spray named Afrika Mustard, number FS 30266 for the Buff colored parts. Seems to simulate the coloration I see on the box covers (and a few of the web page gallery pictures) but I'm sure that an official navy color exists. Need a touch of help with this one. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Bon Homme Richard Mike wrote - >> Seriously, I bet we will never see those names on carriers again - but for what all the dicussion is worth - my vote would go for a new carrier named the USS BON HOMME RICHARD - to me that is name with a lot of history clear back to John Paul Jones. << The name "Bon Homme Richard" was given to LHD-6. LHD-7 will be "Iwo Jima". LHD-8 has not been named yet; somebody suggested - facetiously I hope - "Trent Lott"! Let's hope there's no way that happens. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "Joao andrade Guerra" Subject: Scale Speed On the subject of scale speeds you have to consider that the speed is scalled by a diferent factor than linear dimensions. The same applies to surface, volume or weight (with diferent factors for each one of course). For a 1:350 scale model speed should be scalled by SQRT(350)=18.71 .For a ship with a real speed of 30 knots that should give 30/18.71=1.6 knots. That is almost 3 km/h not bad for shuch a small model. For a 1:96 scale model it would be SQRT(96)=9.80 giving a sacle speed of 3.1 knots or almost 6 km/h . Of course, whether or not one will be satisfied with the effect on the water is another history. Joao Andrade Guerra -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "Joao andrade Guerra" Subject: Resin kits I would like to express my opinion on the subject of expensive resin kits. Nowadays I model in 1:700 scale only because of size and cost but above all because of the large variety of models available. I prefeer to build more kits in a a smaller scale than a few ones in a bigger scale. This also means that I prefeer simpler kits (no PE for example) than very detailled kits wich take me a long time to build. My problem is getting time to build these kits. This is just to say that I do not intend to buy any larger scale kits but I hope to buy and build all the 1:700 kits I can. Joao Andrade Guerra Who is happily preparing to visit the Maritime Museum in Paris tomorrow (sunday) morning. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: SolidStump@aol.com Subject: Staying in San Francisco Go to the Maritime Museum! It's "up the street" from Fisherman's Wharf. The bus maps etc. you will no doubt pick up, will show where it is. The museum has more ship models than I have seen anywhere else in one place. The 12' USS California model is there among other fabulous works. I had to visit several times and still don't feel like I took it all in. Enjoy. Simon Scheuer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: "James Johnson" Subject: Tools I also love tools. I have lots of modeling tools that I have gathered through the years. When I started doing resin 1/350 ships I had to rethink some things. The biggest problem I ran into was removing the excess resin from the parts. I glued a piece of sandpaper on a board and sanded and sanded and sanded, rested and sanded some more. I have found some tools that help with this job. The first of these is a small bandsaw. It is a Delta 8" that is advertised in Micro-mark. I bought mine locally and I bought the finest blade Micro-Mark has (32 TPI). This works great for hacking off thick overflows from large parts, such as hull halves. You don't want to come too close to the finished piece or you may cut to fat. You can get close on the on the top of the piece that you can see, but you don't know where the blade is cutting at the bottom. The next step is to sand the parts. The best thing I have found is the sander in Micro-Mark. It is described as a Professional Model Makers 10" Disc Sander. The really great thing about this sander is the speed. It operates at 280 to 480 RPM. This makes it ideal for resin. Most sanders of this size and design run at 3-4000 RPM. This is much to fast for resin (or plastic). You can still screw up when sanding parts at the slower speed, just not as easily. I use a 120 grit disk on it and it works great! I don't take the parts to the final finish on this, but almost. The final step is sanding by hand. A piece of sandpaper glued to a flat board, such as particle board, works great on small to medium parts. I glued 3 sheets of sandpaper together end to end to do large hulls. This worked for one or two hulls, but then the joints between the sheets started to peel up. I then went to Sears and bought the largest belt sander belt they had. I cut it across and glued it to a piece of particle board. It is about 4' long and 4" wide. This handles any 1/350 hull ever made. I use 180 grit since I am almost finished with the piece when I use it. If you had more waste to remove, you could use coarser paper. You could put course one side of the board and fine on the other side. I use carpenters white glue. It is permanent when you use it, so when the sandpaper wears out, you have to replace it. If the paper gets clogged, you can clean it with a pencil eraser. I tried to use glue that is designed to stick sandpaper discs on the metal discs of sanders, but it didn't work very well on wood. If you have methods that work for you, keep using them. If you wear out your arms sanding or have been reluctant to start a large project because of the problem of excess resin, these methods work. Jim Johnson IPMS 1788 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Naming USN ships >> Seriously, I bet we will never see those names on carriers again - but for what all the dicussion is worth - my vote would go for a new carrier named the USS BON HOMME RICHARD - to me that is name with a lot of history clear back to John Paul Jones. I too thought about the LANGLEY but she is just the first carrier and that is about it - may if we ever reach 100 CVs or something like that it might be nice. << We have already allocated 128 named CVEs and 69 named CV/CVLs ... that's 197 carriers total, including 2 canceled ESSEX hulls that had been named, CVA58, CVE 121 & CVE123 which were completed but never commissioned, as well as numerous CVEs built for the RN. Maybe CVN-79 would count for LANGLEY as she'd be #200. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: SSACHSEN@aol.com Subject: Re: Naming Ships >> my vote would go for a new carrier named the USS BON HOMME RICHARD - to me that is name with a lot of history clear back to John Paul Jones. << that's already taken, too--an LHD-6, I think. They carry CV-31's original bell, BTW... as does LHD-10 Essex (though the OOD had no idea that the huge shiny bell dated 1942 was in fact CV-9's bell...) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 36) From: "Douglas_J_Martin" Subject: Oil Prices, not completely OT(T) Just in case our previous writer thought he was alone in complaining about oil/petrol prices, consider the position in the UK. We are a major oil producer, with the North Sea rigs not too far out of eyeshot, and a major refinery only 40 miles from here. I filled up today, and for each fill in this last month the price has gone up from 72.9 - 77.4 pence/litre (or £3.52 per gallon) Next week or so the Chancellor of the Exchequer will have his additional 'cut', expect a 3% or thereabouts rise, however, this time round the hated 'escalator' of inflation plus 6%? will not be added. The idea here is not to 'extort' money from the car owner, merely to be 'environmentally' friendly......(A completed 1/700 Yamato flies past my window.....) Add the cost of Road Tax (£165/year) to park the car on the street, plus anywhere from £3-15/day to park in the city (call it a commuter tax to 'fund' Public Transport...). Recently there were stories of UK Naval exercises being cancelled due to lack of fuel, am I right in this? - not bad for a country with its own oil.... Oh, and for Mozambique....apparently the MOD cut its rate for helicopter hire, from over £2M to about half, the charge being to another Govt dept for the use of their equipment in an emergency (this got publicity. maybe its normal). As for going on commuter strike, it wont work, we need transport and fuel to get to work, the only persons inconvenienced are the end users, ourselves. No doubt the increases per barrel of oil are steep, they will have a knock on effect throughout our entire economies, and that will include our hobby....where I'm beginning to realise that plastic 'insulation' may not be a bad idea after all! Douglas (Scotland) PS: I've just got Steve's Classic Warship books via WEM, and am looking forward to the IJN BBs......** How about some UK topics **, or did we hide all our ship piccies during the war? PPS: The re-run of 'Station X' has just finished on TV, there is a video out somewhere, so anyone interested in code-breaking/Enigma/Ultra etc should dip into their pockets. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 37) From: Shane Subject: Karel Doorman article Hi gang, Thought I'd bring to your attention a very nice article in IPMS Netherlands magazine "Modelbouw in Plastic" 99/4 on the Karel Doorman by converting the Heller 1/400 Arromanches. It is a nine page article with great photos & drawings. More infomation About their magazine can be found at IPMS Netherlands website: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ipms/eindex.html Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Joel Labow Subject: Ship Model Kits for Sale I've been bitten by the resin bug and am thinning out my collection of 'stick and string' kits. The following kits are all guaranteed complete in mint condition in original boxes: Bluejacket Shipcrafters 1:96 USF Constitution List $490 Your price $330 plus shipping Model Shipways 1:64 US privateer Prince de Neufchatel List $119 Your price $80 plus shipping Mantua 1:47 HMY Royal Caroline List 220 Your price $150 Payment by personal check (shipment when check clears) or money order. I will ship by either USPS priority mail or UPS. Please contact me off list if interested. Joel Labow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Loren Perry Subject: New Gold Medal Models website open Gold Medal Models now has its first "official" website up and running. Our existing website, created by Martin Gibson in the U.K. is still operational for the time being. The new site borrows heavily from Martin's excellent designs and expands in other directions as well. One of the new additions will be a "what's new" page that will be updated regularly. Not all features are operational yet, but they will be within a few weeks. This new website has been assembled by Sean Winterberg, owner/operator of the Official Titanic Scale Model Page and we're extremely grateful to him for his fine work. Like the old site, the new one will be primarily for propagation of information including prices, features, and so on. No e-mail ordering or credit card ordering will be possible; we will continue to use regular mail for that. In other words, send your check and order to us by mail as specified in the on-line order form. Our reason for this - we're swamped with orders as is and wouldn't be able to keep up with demand or maintain our high quality standards if we suddenly opened up to credit card orders. And there wouldn't be enough time left to design new and improved products. The added demand would overwhelm us. Sticking with the old-fashioned ordering methods helps us keep things under control, silly as it may seem at first glance. However, customers wanting to order GMM products using credit cards may buy from any of our excellent mail-order dealers such as Pacific Front Hobbies, The Naval Base, Roll Models, White Ensign Models, Hobbyweb.com, Pit-Road Co. Ltd. and numerous other fine firms. If there are any other GMM dealers out there reading this that wish to weigh in, please do so. To visit the new Gold Medal Models website, go to: http://goldmm.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume