Subject: SMML VOL 850 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:57:57 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Staying in San Francisco 2: Re: Ship Names and VETS 3: Re: CSS Alabama 4: Re: Translations 5: Re: TSS BERRIMA 6: Re: Any Answers? 7: BPF Blue 8: Re: Big Gray Ships 9: Re: Model Ships & Art Rant 10: 1:6 scale Twin Bofors 11: Ship Museums San Francisco 12: Re: "we have sufficient naval forces with half the number of vessels" 13: Re: Naming Ships 14: Re: Epoxy as insulator 15: Yamato Expedition 16: Painting 1/350 yamato deck 17: Butch O'Hare 18: CV 59 & 60 CG day trip. 19: E Boats 20: Re: Naming of Ships 21: BRITISH PACIFIC FLEET BLUE 22: Something a bit different 23: Re: Naming Ships #11 24: Unhistoric Names 25: British Pacific Fleet Blue 26: Ship Names 27: Names (Was: Buff Color) 28: Pearl Harbor Update 29: Ship Models on-line 30: Ship's Names 31: Re: 5 minute epoxy 32: Kongo 33: Question on CVN-65 34: Re: Various 35: Naming of ships - or namecalling of politicians 36: Bismarck model pics 37: Equipment Set IV (E-7) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Book for sale 2: Model Ship Journal-THANK YOU -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Mark McKellar Subject: Re: Staying in San Francisco >> Go to the Maritime Museum! It's "up the street" from Fisherman's Wharf. The bus maps etc. you will no doubt pick up, will show where it is. The museum has more ship models than I have seen anywhere else in one place. The 12' USS California model is there among other fabulous works. I had to visit several times and still don't feel like I took it all in. << I was going to suggest this - this is a must-see for steel ship modelers. But, be warned.....bring a camera - they have no postcards for pics of their models for sale (hard to believe but true) It's about 2 blocks from Fisherman's warf below the Girodelli Square and above the large sailing ship docked on a pier. Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com Subject: Re: Ship Names and VETS Hi All, I too, simply had to reply to this off-topic thread. To say ship names are unimportant and that it is acceptable to forget our history is not only UNFORGIVABLE, but should not be tolerated, free society or not. The comments made by the poster saying this, shows how our society has lowered its standards into allowing people to accept this. The so-called "new education" in this country is unforgivable putting NO EMPHASIS on national pride, achievements or aspirations. I am a former serviceman. My family has a long naval tradition. While I never served in combat, many of my older relatives have. To read comments like this show how off-base we have allowed our society to become. Patriotism has become a dirty word. We have constantly allowed our standards to be lowered to make everyone feel good as opposed to making people work harder to gain excellence. Something we all strive for in our model building. I build for pleasure and every time I finish one, I am most proud of the improvements I have made in my skills. Ship names are a reflection of our history and military achievements. YOU HAD BETTER BELIEVE VETS KNOW BEST ABOUT NAMING SHIPS!!!! The battles that politicians fight are usually ended by the military. They have EARNED that right. The government & military should have a formal naming policy and REMOVE any politics from the process. WE HAVE PLENTY OF REAL HEROES TO NAME SHIPS AFTER!!! Last time I looked, there are approx. 3200 Medal of Honor winners. Many of whom have already had ships named after them. To imagine a USS William J. Clinton?????? This would be the ultimate disgrace to a naval vessel. I also feel naming them after "living" politicians is also incorrect. President Reagan may have been very good to the Navy, but he certainly, IMHO, doesn't rate a Nimitz-class CVN named after him. Destroyers and Frigates are named after distinguished persons, let's keep it that way. Harry S. Truman deserves a ship named after him even less. To say that politicians fight "unpopular" battles with no medals is true. They usually deserve indictments instead of medals for the "battles" they fight. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com Subject: Re: CSS Alabama To Minadmiral@aol.com; I am glad that someone was paying attention :) :) to my post.....I figured if she had planes, why not a CIWS???? And besides, have you ever tried Fosters for airbrushing acrylics??? Its greaaaaaaat!!!! Now, back to adding those 40mm mounts to the CSS Alabama....... John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com Subject: Re: Translations Hi Ismail, Thank you very much for all of your work. I have printed everyone out and put them in the appropriate Skywave set. I am sure that we all appreciate the work you put in to this. I am constantly amazed at the vast supply of knowledge we have on this list. Again, my thanks. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: URUDOFSKY@aol.com Subject: Re: TSS BERRIMA SEE www.uss-salem.org They have a complete listing of RAN ships from the start. BERRIMA was requisitioned August 1914 and made into an armed merchant. The ship was beached after being torpedoed in the English Channel 18/2/1917. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Any Answers? >> "Subject: BRITISH PACIFIC FLEET BLUE Having watched the Latest Naval Time Capsule video (British Pacific Fleet - phase 2) several times (wonderful !) I have a query regarding the "blue" used on the BPF waterline panel. In a series of colour shots of the British East Indies Fleet [SNIP] The blue panel seems to vary from Light grey with a blue-ish tinge, through a rich light blue through to almost a dark grey. Does anyone know whether this is another one of those "paint-mixing" problems, or is it "just the light" ? << Phil: The paint scheme in question is the Admiralty Standard scheme, and according to Alan Raven there were four major variants of the schemes (plus two others used on coastal forced). The four major schemes all used different colours (Shane note: some of us Yanks know how to spell!) for both the panel and the rest of the vertical surfaces. So that may be a factor. As you speculate, light may be a factor. Finally there is the quality of the film itself: how it was processed, how it was stored, the quality of the video transfer...all of these factors and others influence the colour you're seeing now. Having seen other BPF colour footage, I wouldn't place too much stock in trying to match colour to what you see in the film. Research the particular vessel. Buy Alan Raven's forthcoming books on RN camouflage (which we will be carrying, BTW), as I'm sure he'll do a good job of identifying which ship wore which variation of the Admiralty Standard scheme....right, Alan? John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com Hi John, Good to see ;-) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: BPF Blue Hi Phil The colour your talking about is B20. It should be a blue-grey. However, due to mixing vagaries, weathering, size of ship etc it ended up varying quite significantly. It also seems that some ships didn't bother with it and just painted grey panels, whereas others used a very blue mix. Finding a colour photo is your best bet otherwise just use the White Ensign mix (its as near as anything else). Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Mark McKellar Subject: Re: Big Gray Ships >> ........take a drive up to New England, there really is a lot of Navy stuff to photograph, I think it would be worth a "Road Trip". << Ahhhhhh don;t forget the little submarine that could - The experimental USS Albacore in Portsmouth NH and of course the USS Salem in Quincy. Mark Where Joe Mooney has begun the prep the infield for another year of baseball at Fenway Park -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Re: Model Ships & Art Rant Despite what Luigi Pirandello* and GrafSpee34 might think, something is not so just because one says it is so. My calling a ship model an eggplant does not make it a vegetable. The "young person who scratch builds clipper ships from wood" might be an incredible craftsman, but he or she is not an artist. That person's excellence can be rewarded, however, not by a National Endowment grant, but with a MacArthur Fellowship, a far more prestigious award. Personally, I agree that the bulk of the recent show at the Brooklyn Museum was crap (pun intended). Recently potty-trained children often will stare into the toilet and marvel at their creation. That a child claims it is art does not change its smell. In trying too hard to be fair and inclusive, to not define art by fiat, the National Endowment for the Arts indeed makes some peculiar choices to receive its funding. It ends up constantly embroiled in political and religious controversy. Frankly, I am an heretical sculptor who would not be unhappy if the National Endowment simply faded away. There is no "current exclusionary trend towards 'what is art'. " Quite the contrary. The terms art and artist have become so watered down from haphazard inclusionary misuse as to no longer be meaningful. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ * Pirandello wrote the play "It Is So! (If You Think So)" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: 1:6 scale Twin Bofors Hi Just thought somebody here would like to know there will be a 1:6 scale USN twin bofors for sale at toystores in the USA starting in May. It is part of a an "action figure" toy trend that stresses accuracy and appears to be aimed more at collectors than tots. The prototype Bofors looks nice in the pictures and will probably lend itself to detailing. Take a look! http://www.gijoe.com/lnavy_gunner.html (ignore the doll) A 1:6 scale Stewart tank is scheduled for later release, and there is already a Kettenkrad, a Willys Jeep, a Schwimmwagen and a Bradley tank on the market. Cheers Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Ship Museums San Francisco Hello Mark, At the west end of Fisherman's Wharf is the San Francisco Maritime Museum with some very nice large models including one of the only battleship built in California - the USS California. Just east of there is the Hyde Street Pier, a national maritime museum with several sailing ships and the steam ferry Eureka (which is in a deplorable state). Further to the west at Fort Mason is the liberty ship, USS Jeremia O'Brien. To get to the Hornet (IPMS Hornet chapter meets there on the first Friday of every month) take the Bay Bridge over to Oakland (15 minutes non commute, over an hour during commute), take I-880 south to the Broadway exit, follow the signs to Alemeda (via the Webster Street Tube). Once you are through the tunnel, stay to the right and turn right at the first street light onto West Atlantic Avenue. Go to the end of the road and turn left (before you drop into the water!). You will see the flattop to your right at the end of the road. By the way, this is the same berth that the first Hornet loaded Doolittle's Raiders. Let me know when you are here and I can meet you and show you around, if you like. Any excuse to take a day off and look at ships! Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: "we have sufficient naval forces with half the number of vessels" With all due respect, since this is kinda my turf as an occasionally published writer on military affairs; I have to disagree with the concept that we are ready to deal with a repeat of Desert Shield/Storm. Leaving aside the point that a certain fecklessness in our foreign policy has made it impossible to recreate the international coalition that made the whole operation feasible; the allies that we had then have themselves cut their own forces down to the point where they could not join us. Their remaining deployable forces are committed to the Balkans, along with the bulk of our deployable forces. I would also note that after we have interfered with Israeli internal politics and and attempted to force the dismemberment of their country, they may not show the same forebearance to a bombardment by Scud missiles. The burden would fall on the United States. The problem then would be to get enough US units on scene and combat ready to a) repel an attack on the Saudi oil fields, and b) retake Kuwait. This involves a concept called strategic lift. While you can deploy some combat forces rapidly, to get them in action and keep them in action requires the ability to move ancilliary equipment, spares, and supplies in a steady stream. This in reality means ships. We do not have anything near the sealift capability we had 10 years ago. I offer as an example of our current capabilities the renowned contribution of our Apache helicopters during the Kosovo affair. If we are to use Marines as the "speed bump", they and their equipment have to get there. Our "gator navy" of amphibious ships was facing a problem of block obsolescence 10 years ago, and we have not addressed the problem yet. Our CVBG's are stretched to the limit, and the CVN's have been deploying as much as 20% short of crew. A CVN should be able to deploy with 80-110 aircraft in its Air Group, depending on loadout [some types of planes being bigger than others] of squadron types. We are running with 60-70, because we do not have the spare parts and pilots to maintain and operate more than that. Desert Storm was in part possible because of the use of precision munitions. We are running out. The stocks of our vaunted Tomahawk missile are so low, that we have converted our reserve nuclear strike versions to conventional. While we have created add on kits to make dumb bombs smart, we don't have all that many of them. Could the navy hold up its end? Not and maintain its commitments elsewhere. However, even assuming that we stripped everything else to handle this commitment, the final name of the game is power projection; "grunts on the ground". If you want to find the units that won Desert Storm, it's easy. Go to Carlisle Barracks in Pennsylvania. There you will find the cased colors of the victors of Desert Storm, placed there in the early 1990's after the units were disbanded. Our army has shrunk to 10 divisions. In the army's own internal rating system, a system biased towards rose-tinted outlooks due to its effects on the careers of senior officers, 4 out of 10 of those divisions were rated unfit for combat last year due to personnel and equipment shortages. When a division deploys a brigade overseas today, they have to strip the other brigade(s) [depending on whether the 3rd brigade is a Reserve unit] of key personnel and equipment, and commit the entire "division slice" of logistics to the deployed unit. The remainder is now a garrison unit. For the first time in modern history, the regular forces are not capable of deploying in peacetime without mobilizing the Reserves. The Reserves are in even worse shape than the Regulars as far as equipment. I offer the recent grounding of almost all of the Army's Reserve rotary wing aviation due to widespread mechanical failures traced to lack of spares and maintenance. I also note the increasing reluctance of employers to support the Guard/Reserves as noted in a recent report to Congress. Routine peacetime deployments of 6 months at a time make it hard to be supportive of a Reservist employee. The reserves are starting down the same road of recruiting shortfalls as the regular forces. Our training establishment cannot keep up either. In another report to Congress, a couple of weeks ago, it was noted that pilot training hours are way down due to lack of spares and maintenance. Especially affected were Red Flag/Checkered Flag type operations in the air force, Strike University and Top Gun for the navy. As soon as they get a plane in operational shape, it is grabbed by an operational squadron. One other confidence builder, for the Army types: last week it was announced that the CBW suits we have been issuing to the troops for the last 5 years leak, and it was known by the Pentagon. For the last 3 years, Congress has appropriated more money for spares, maintenance, and training than the president wanted, even to the point of risking a veto. Somehow, that money has not made it to the units. I more than suspect that due to creative budgeting the extra funds were diverted to pay for our Balkan Army of Occupation. Our inability to respond appropriately with conventional forces to another Iraqi incursion leaves us with the sole option of using nuclear weapons. Leaving aside any discussion about the moral aspects or the effect on relations with say Russia or China .......you think the price of oil is high today? I suspect that sometime in the near future we will encounter opponents more threatening to our nation than either the Serb Air Force or the Ton Ton Macoutes. Assuming the National Command Authority has both the personal inclination and the political will to face the challenge; our forces will be short of equipment, spares, ammunition, have limited mobility, and our troops will be worried about whether their wives and children can afford enough to eat or are being hassled by the welfare office. While they will be thoroughly trained in the use of "stress cards", EEOC complaint procedures, and the Army's latest program "Consideration of Others" [that last is a real training program]; they might wish they had been able to spend a bit more time learning various combat skills. There, that was a nice rant. If our webmaster doesn't deem it too inflammatory to post [and I willingly and respectfully defer to his judgment in the matter], I have my Kevlar shorts on and await incoming fire. Roland Mar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Re: Naming Ships Hello Mike, >> my vote would go for a new carrier named the USS BON HOMME RICHARD. << I believe that there currently is a ship by that name. It is one of the newest LHDs so I believe that it will be around for some time. Regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Kenneth Perry Subject: Re: Epoxy as insulator Hello, Epoxy can be used to insulate from water as it is waterproof and noncoductive. Water does not cause it to soften, but extreme heat will. You shouldn't experience enough heat for that on a model, though. I used to work on circuit boards for Navy aircraft that were completely sealed in epoxy. To repair them after changing a component, we used 5 and 30 minute epoxy. Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Kenneth Perry Subject: Yamato Expedition I don't know if this has ever been posted before, but late last year, there was a Yamato research and recovery expedition. They have posted a web site with a couple of pictures of the Yamato after sinking. This site is at: http://www.titanic-online.com/yamato/index.htm Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Art Pagsuyoin Subject: Painting 1/350 yamato deck I just picked up a 1/350 Tamiya Yamato (which I successfully converted to Radio control-the kit was already the motorized version). Since this is the first large-scale kit I am working on, can anyone suggest a technique and paints to use for painting the wood deck? I've seen the deck on Jim Gordon's Yamato and I'm aiming for that finish. Thanks in advance. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Paul W. Jewell" Subject: Butch O'Hare All of the discussion of Butch O'Hare brings to mind an excellent, well-written first hand account of the Pacific War: "Crossing the Line: A Bluejacket's WWII Odyssey" by Alvin Kernan (published the Naval Institute Press). Kernan was the turret gunner in the Avenger that lead the first airborne, radar-guided night attack from a carrier. The attacking group of course included Butch O'Hare's Hellcat. The whole mission was a mess... O'Hare may actually have been shot down by one of the Navy planes. Kernan was also took part in the Doolittle raid, Midway, and was on board the Hornet when it was sunk at Santa Cruz. Originally assigned to naval ordnance, he volunteered to fly as a gunner on torpedo bombers after Midway. (People weren't volunteering in great numbers for torpedo bomber crews at that point). After the war, Kernan went on to a career as an Ivy League English professor and so he knows how to write in a coherent, understated but fascinating story. I highly recommend this book to anyone who want's a bug's eye view of World War II in the Pacific Regards, Paul Jewell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: CV 59 & 60 CG day trip. Mr. Maynard is right about a collection of ships up here. There is a little of everything. But as the Ida Lewis was passing the port side of Sara we couldn't help noticing she had a 4-5 degree list to port. I seen her a month before and there was no list. There also was no wind. So why is she listing? Takes allot of fuel transferring to heel a CV over that much or is there an open seachest? Maybe the navy will handle this like they did for the Normandie "U.S.S. Lafayette". Remember February 9, 1942? The Normandie's designer was there during the fire and said he could open some valves and she would settle in the mud upright. But the admiral in charge told him to go away because it was the navy's business. It ended up costing the navy 7 million and the complete loss of a beautiful ship. I hope the navy will remember this before it ends up like the Normandie, cutting up the Sara at her berth. But after being in the navy I know they like to do things the easy way and letting her roll would make more sence in their eyes. Don't you think so? Keith PS, That was a good day trip on the Ida Lewis, thank you CG -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: E Boats Hi Can anybody recommend any good reference guides on German E-Boats of WWII? I just got the Airfix 1:72 scale kit at a jumble sale. Thanks Dave Hi Dave, There's an old profile on E-Boats (or S-boats) that has been recommended in the past. Also Whitely's book on German coastal craft is very good. HTH Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Naming of Ships >> That a ship is named Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton is not important. << >> Oh yes it is! Ever since they started putting ship names on ballcaps and selling them during Fleet Weeks... :-) Would you want 'Bill Clinton' on YOUR head? << Come on, look at all the jokes made just on SMML, you know the escort SSN, etc. This ship will be the laughing stock of the fleet if it were ever named Bill Clinton. Guess it would definitely be PacFlt .... has to be based on the Left Coast Hope the Aegis & Phalanx work! Wouldn't want to caught with it's pants down. It's a nuke, it doesn't even smoke, much less inhale! "What ship are you from?" " Don't ask and I won't tell." "When did they repaint the escorts with that measure 5? Oh, never mind, it's just another stain" The idea of naming a ship after a man almost nobody (I do know some liberals in the services) in the military respects; the first president to be found guilty of perjury (by the judge) and facing the distinct probability of being disbarred is beyond my comprehension. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "graham" Subject: BRITISH PACIFIC FLEET BLUE Hi I think that what with different mixes, and with the age and effects of weathering is causing the different shades of Blue here. graham -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Nick Wellington Subject: Something a bit different In the past year or so I've been doing some scratchbuilding in 1/192 scale, and have seriously begun to consider the possibilities of marketing models in this scale. The quality of my projects, namely my 1/192 San Francisco (under construction) is beyond what I ever thought they would be. Could anyone give me any tips on how to get started in this? I'd need to know if there's any special way to make the masters, and who to get in touch with for both resin casting and photoetch. I have considered doing my own casting, but I do not trust myself with anything as large as a 1/192 hull. Please note that I would NOT be doing this full time: I would be working on this on afternoons and weekends only! I am still in school, so I also have holidays such as spring break and Summer. On a more financial note, how much money would I need to invest for the first run of models this size? And, how many people would want resin models in 1/192? I'd be primarily doing late war USN and maybe IJN models, mostly cruisers, but others considered to. Keep in mind that they wouldn't be cheap: roughly $400-$600 USD for a Cruiser, $150 for a DD. Please email me (or leave a message on this board) with both info on the process, and what you would like to see in this scale. BTW, if I do decide to do this, the first model would _most likely_ be a Destroyer Escort, followed by a heavy or light cruiser. Some ideas I have (that wouldn't be in direct competition with other companies 1/350 scale models) are Rudderow class DE and 1945 New Orleans class (could be built as New Orleans, San Francisco, Minneapolis and Tuscaloosa). Of course if people emailed me with totally different I would consider that. As for models I will NOT do, they include CVs, large BBs, Alaska class CBs (get CWs in 1/350, I can't hope to top that:) and RN ships (sorry, WEM does almost all of them, and I have little interest in the RN). I have also posted this on the warship message board. and can be contacted there. I am also open to doing 1/350, but that market seems to be covered fairly well, so unless I get overwhelming response for that 1/192 stays. Any info is apprecated, Nick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Dave Judy Subject: Re: Naming Ships #11 Very well said Loren!! Amen! Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Douglas_J_Martin" Subject: Unhistoric Names I'll only add a wee comment here from the March 2000 copy of the UKs 'Navy News' - also at: (www.navynews.co.uk) 3 new subs being constructed, to be named 'Astute/Ambush/Artful'...given by the Ships Names Committee, article suggests that more aggressive names should have been allocated like those used by the 'Amazon' frigates. However, I dont recall anyone getting too uptight about a certain class of warship named after 'Flowers'...and no one would consider them to have been lesser fighting vessels. Maybe there is a line to be drawn between warships named after true 'Statesmen' rather than mere politicians, the like of whom we see on both sides of the Atlantic. Navy News also reports that the Top Brass are 'unhappy' with inaccurate press reports on cancelled exercises and the like, reading between the lines its all to do with 'fine-tuning the Fleets activities to enable it to live within allocated funds. The Fleet is reported as 'meeting its key performance targets', a phrase that seems to be the bottom line on everyone's 'staff/annual reports' - the be all and end all of our worthy existence. Douglas (Scotland) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "John Rule" Subject: British Pacific Fleet Blue >> In a series of colour shots of the British East Indies Fleet saying goodbye to the USS Saratoga a procession of RN Ships are shown, basically in the same lighting conditions. The blue panel seems to vary from Light grey with a blue-ish tinge, through a rich light blue through to almost a dark grey. Does anyone know whether this is another one of those "paint-mixing" problems, or is it "just the light" ? << The vessels are presumably in Admiralty Standard Schemes. For BBs, CAs, CLs, DDs, minesweepers monitors and auxilliaries the panel should be B20 panel with G45 on remainder. In the case of destroyer escorts, frigates, sloops and corvettes the panel should be G45 with the remainder in B55. Generally the best reference to date on RN camouflage is the articles written by Alan Raven in Plastic Ship Modeler which can be ordered from Daniel Jones. Details are on the Warship site. Otherwise, you'll just have to wait with bated breath like the rest of us for the publication of Mr Raven's upcoming books on the subject of RN warship camouflage. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Joe Damato" Subject: Ship Names I've been following the thread on naming new ships. We've already made one mistake by naming a carrier after Reagan. It'll never be able to operate on it's own...wondering off and all. We'll have to name it's escort Nancy or something. The British made the same mistake during WW2 by naming a Battleship the HMS Incontinent. She was sunk shortly after leaving port when a German sub tracked the oil slick she left behind. Then there was the HMS Improbable, Immobile and on and on...Just a thought. Best, Joe of JAG -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Marc Flake Subject: Names (Was: Buff Color) >> Steve Wiper Wrote: So if your name is Rhino Bones, you must have had almost as hard a time in high school as I did with my name. << I had always hoped that when "flake" as a derrogatory term surfaced in the late 60s (when I was in HS) that it would die the death of other fads. Much to my chagrin, I still get comments about my name. Marc Flake -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Marc Flake Subject: Pearl Harbor Update Filming starts April 4 on Oahu. Sites include Hickam and Wheeler Fields. Local servicemen are being recruited to participate in the film, which is receiving full DOD cooperation. Here's a rundown of the aircraft: Five of the Confederate Air Force Kates and Vals; a reconditioned Val from the San Diego Planes of Fame Museum as well as their Zero, P-40 and B-25; two Zeroes from the Santa Monica Museum; and three privately owned P-40s. After filmng wraps in mid-May the company moves to Corpus Christi, Texas to film on the USS Lexington. The Blue Ghost will stand in as a Japanese carrier, then as the Hornet. Here's a comment that I found: "Even though there is a lot of effort being put into historical accuracy, (Producer Michael) Bay assured . . . readers that it will be a film about people. "'It's all character, and it's a very different movie than I've ever done before. It's all history, but not everything's based in fact.'" Best web site for keeping up is http:\\www.cinemenium.com/pearlharbor/news.html Marc Flake It has pictures of the San Diego Val. Ben Aggleck will star, Josh Hatnett will co-star. Amazingly enough, they haven't cast the female lead. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: "Jeffry J. Fontaine" Subject: Ship Models on-line Hi Shane and all of the SMML folk; I was browsing through my alt.binaries.models.scale newsgroup download and found an entry announcing a new web page on modeling and ship models in particular, figured it might be worth sharing with SMML. The page was created by a fellow in Denmark named Aage Christensen, he has many images of the different types of ship models he has built. So if you have the time, check out Aage Christensens Modeling site; http://home13.inet.tele.dk/aage/ (In Danish) or for those of us that like to be able to understand what we are looking at; http://home13.inet.tele.dk/aage/English/indexuk.htm (In English) afn, Jeffry Fontaine Bremerton, Washington -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "William Oreto" Subject: Ship's Names All right, all right I concede we won't name CVN-77 U.S.S.Hillary Billy Bubba. (Darn there goes my ball cap) I guess what I was trying to say was that names don't really matter in the "big picture". I think such factors as competent crews, morale, spare parts, survivability, proper training, decent pay, good leadership and enough ships so a sailor doesn't have to be deployed 9 months out of the year (exaggeration) are more important. The U.S. Navy's has many more serious problems other than its ship's naming process. I apologize if I trivialized the matter. Did I read that USNA cadets booed the President of the U.S. Did I read that right?? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: 5 minute epoxy >> Can you use 5 minute epoxy as an electrical insulator in R/C boats? Does << Yes, it is a very good insulator an is used as such routinely >> it conduct electricity? Will it go soft in the water and then start shorting the circuits? << No epoxy is used as a potting compound to environmentally seal electronic circuits. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Kongo Hi group, I have a request from my son, who is currently living in Sweden. The local hobby shops where he lives has only Model Masters or Humbrol paint. He would like to know which shade of grey to use on his IJN Kongo. He would also like to know if she ever wore the green that was used near the end of the war and what would be the right shade for that as well. Are there any IJN web sites that I can direct him to, so he will stop bugging me about navies I know nothing about ;-p Thanks Keith Butterley Hi Keith, Try the following SMMLie's sites, they should keep him from bugging ya ;-) J-aircraft.com Main Page http://www.j-aircraft.com/ - mainly aircraft with IJN info as well Nihon Kaigun: http://www.skypoint.com/members/jbp/kaigun.htm - excellant IJN page with articles, reviews & builds Warship: http://warship.simplenet.com/ - excellant general shipmodelling site with very good IJN builds & reviews -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: "Ronald Chan" Subject: Question on CVN-65 Hi, I'm Ronald, Located in Hong Kong. Sorry on getting you in trouble. I'm currently building a model 1:350 Enterprise. I want to building the hangar for that ship and need some information/photos of the hangar. Did you have these kind of information? And would you send it to me. I have search for the Amazone and know there was a book call "The Detail and Scale book on the Enterprise". However, I can found it anywhere in Hong kong or even in Amazone. Did you have any Idea where I can buy it or will it be re-publish soon. I know it will be a valuable source of information for me. Thank you for your time and have a good day. B.Regards, Ronald Chan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: "Bruce D. Wright" Subject: Re: Various Hi There: Just a few quick notes before bedtime. Names of Ships: Names are very important. I would offer an example here though. In WWII, there was only one carrier named after a Civil War battle - the Antietam. I have not found any official paperwork on naming ships in the 1940's, but the idea of southern men serving on ships named after northern victories would not have been a good idea. Moral and cohiveness in a crew is critical to sucess, and it was just to close to the "Great Unplesantness" to use Civil War names for ships. Antietam was an exception as it was our bloodiest battle, and considered a draw by both sides. Some people think that the CV Franklin was named after a battle, but it was actually named after Ben Franklin. I agree with Paul and Chris. to Mike M.: In reguard to the list you observed on the Saratoga; was the list to the island side of the ship? the idea occurs to me that in her unloaded condition, weights are no longer "counter balancing" the weight of the island. I would doubt that the Navy would permit flooding/damage to the ship to go uncared for even if it is going to be scrapped. To Malcom: Women and children first is more from chivilary, but I'm more practical; after all, if the lifeboat might leak, would you really want to be the first to test it? Likewise, I always open doors for ladies and let them go first - perhaps there's a deranged ax murderer waiting just beyond for someone? Paranoia for survival is no vice! for Phil Gollin: I have not seen the program you have described (I don't have TV). But I would like to pass on a couple of thoughts. Warship International publishes WWII color photos quite frequently and the results are not gratifying. These photos are now 60 years old and degrading badly - even the best of them. What you are seeing on TV is even worse, as they are at least two generations in duplication from the original. With each generation you have 10 - 15% drop in trueness to the original. My guess is that what you are seeing is an combination of ligh, aging, and a conversion to television. I would not believe that any good deck officer would allow a problem with the paint mixes to have an inconstant color. Films this old should be good for discerning patterns, but I would not trust them for portraying the true colors of paints. Only the original chip sets should be used for that. Simon: You are not far off the mark. Arnold was a great leader in our revolution. Many sources mark him as the force that won Saratoga for us, while Gates was the "bimbo" that could have lost it. It was Arnold's problems with Gates (and a certain young lady) that soured him on the American cause, and helped him make his infamous decision. Gates had the ship named for him though; go figure. Last is to Norman Samich: In reguard to oil prices, perhaps USN ships will also soon be powered by biomass. If not from the crew, certainly by the massive regulations... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: Bergschöld Pelle Subject: Naming of ships - or namecalling of politicians Hey, guys. Most of us are americans, apparently, but this is still not (and IMHO should not be) a forum for discussions of politics. Especially not a particular country's internal affairs, even if it is the US. Can we cut it out and return to something not as inflammatory and rather more model- or shipbound? Besides, there are politicians all over the world that makes fools of themselves in certain aspects, we have a Swedish minister of finance right now that is a constant internal laugh, although I have to admit that the absolutely funniest political matter so far is Mr John Mayor's "Back to basics" moral campaign, the major result being discovering that the most unmoral group of people in UK being his own government. No shadow on Britons in general, though. Anyway, even Mr Mayor should be remembered not only for this, but also for other efforts made that has given UK good reputation internationally. That goes definitely also for Mr Clinton. While being fond of young women (btw come on, who isn't) he and his administration has in fact given the US a financial strenght not known since the 50'ies. Mr Carter was (and is) one of the most important peace negotiators this world has seen. And he did cut back on defence budget, didn't he? Shane. Can we direct issues like this to for instance http://www.georgewbush.com/ and it's discussion forum fom now on? Best regards Pelle Bergschold Sweden -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 36) From: "Foeth" Subject: Bismarck model pics Some pictures of how your Bismarck should be tranformed to get things "correctl". More pictures will follow over the months, and some of my Hood. http://home.wish.net/~vandijk Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 37) From: Ismail Hassenpflug Subject: Equipment Set IV (E-7) Well folks, the next installment. I have received so many thanks from various people on the list that I am encouraged to continue more quickly than I had initially planned. My japanese is not very good though (not yet 2 years) so at times there may be some difficulties (like the thing with the 'slits' on the E-type 20.3cm turrets... still not resolved). Anyway, on to the set itself: Set IV (E-7), part for older destoryers, escorts and smaller ships. Contents, front page of instructions: Row 1: 1. 45cal year 10 design 12cm single high angle gun (E type, modification No.2) 2. 45cal year 10 design 12cm single high angle gun (early period shield) - use on early period Hei (C) and Tei (D) class escorts 3. 45cal year 10 design 12cm single high angle gun (late period shield) - use on late period Hei (C) adn Tei (D) class escorts Row 2: 4. 54cal year 3 design 12cm single gun (late period type) G type 5. 45cal year 10 design 12cm twin high angle gun 6. 25mm triple machine gun Row 3: 7. 25mm twin machine gun 8. 8cm mortar - use pedestal (pt.30) as appropriate if necessary 9. Luffing type boat davits Row 4: 10. 25mm single machine guns 11. 45cal year 10 design 12cm high angle gun 12. depth charge thrower 13. depth charge racks 14. depth charge rails 15.direction finding loop antenna 16. flag staff 17. Number 13 radar aerial Row 5: 18. paravanes (supports included) - for port use at left, for starboard use at right, bow direction shown with arrow to left 19. paravane 20. 75cm searchlight 21. 3m rangefinder 22. 2m rangefinder 23. hose reels 24. Number 22 radar aerial Row 6: 25. crysanthemum crest 26. anchor 27. 6m barge (lighter) 28. 6m cutter 29. 6m motor boat Rear of instructions: Entry 1: 45cal year 10 design 12cm single high angle gun E type, modification 2 A shield added to 45cal year 10 design 12cm single high angle gun Pt.28 (item 11 in list above), fitted to Mikura and Ukuru class escorts Entry 2: 45cal year 10 design 12cm single high angle gun (early period shield) Fitted to Hei and Tei class escorts of the early period type (completed in second half of Showa 19, 1944). The gun itself is the same as above. Entry 3: 45cal year 10 design 12cm single high angle gun (late period shield) Fitted to Hei and Tei class escorts of the late period (completed in showa 20, 1945). The gun itself is the same as above. Entry 4: 45cal year 3 design 12cm single high angle gun (late period type) G type Mounted on destroyers of hte Minetsuki (late period ships), kamikaze, Mutsuki, Wakatake classes, torpedo boats of the Chiyoda class, escorts of the Shimushu, Etorofu classes, and minesweepers of all classes. Entry 5: 25mm single, twin, triple machine guns The 96 design machine gun, the most widely used anti aircraft weapon used on all classes of warships, a french Hotchkiss design mass-produced by the Yokosuka Military Works. Entry 6: 8cm mortar Mounted on all ships throughout on all classes of escorts such as the Shimushu, Etorofu, Mikura, Ukuru, Hei and Tei classes of the late period etc, probably for use during anti-submarine operations as a forward-firing weapon, but as results were insignificant, orders for its removal are also known to have been given during the final period of the war, around May 1945. Entry 7: depth charge thrower The representative 94 design depth charge thrower. Known as the Y type or twin thrower, pressured gas was used to lob to both port and starboard. As one-side only devices such as on the Mutsuki class, cut in half and use. Entry 8: depth charge racks Rack for depth charges meant for depth charge thrower, a maximum of 6 depth charges could be prepared in advance, simplifying relaoding and launching. Entry 9: depth charge rails Usually mounted on both sides at the stern, depth charges were manually released. The frame and 6 loaded depth charges are represented. Used from the First World War onwards. Entry 10: direction loop antenna (for direction finding use) Direction finding loop antenna for use on all classes of ships. Entry 11: flag staff Mounted on all classes of ships at bow and stern, there were also collapseable types, in which case you should glue it flat on the deck. Entry 12: Paravane (anti-mine tool) Equipment to cut the wires of laid moored mines, it was towed behind the ship to bring mines to the surface where they would be disposed of my machine gun fire. Paravanes were divided by size in to large, medium and small types, please use this kit's parts as the small type. Entry 13: 75cm searchlight Used by small ships such as destroyers, torpedo boats, escorts, submarine chasers, etc., but on a model the use is not necessarily limited to 75cm, so please feel free to use them! Entry 14: 3m, 2m rangefinders Optical devices for sighting the main guns of smaller classes of ships, for the most part placed on the open bridge structure. Entry 15: Hose reels Mounted all over the decks and at the sides of the superstructure for storing coils of all types of rope. In japanese they are called 'rakusha' (Actually, since everyone writes 'hose reel' in katakana, many japanese would not know the original expression, hence the explanation). Disposition varies so please use after researching carefully. Entry 16: Number 22 radar (denpa tanshingi) A radar that was placed on all types of ships mostly on the top of the bridge. Entry 17: Number 13 radar (denpa tanshingi) A radar that was placed on all types of ships mostly on the aft mast. Entry 18: crysanthemum crest Medium and small type of crest for use on light cruisers, escorts (up to Showa 17, 1942), gun boats (up to Showa 19, 1944) etc. Entry 19: 6m barge (lighter) Rowboat type, used when cleaning the outer hull etc, as it was useful for short turns (trips). On land, when used on rivers, known as a lighter. (Well, at least in japanese!) Entry 20: 6m cutter Rowboat used for rescue and transport of military personnel by small warships. Entry 21: 6m motor boat Motorboat used by destroyers and small warships. Okay, that's set IV (E-7) completed. Next is Set V (E-10) with parts for destroyers. Not that it may interest so many, but my primary interest is in destroyers and cruisers - partly because there are lots of them, many variations, etc., and partly for cost and space reasons (if you see what most japanese people live in, you will appreciate this. I notice someone also brought up that argument when popular scales were being discussed. It is certainly relevant!). Cheers all, Ismail Hassenpflug, MSc.Eng PhD 1st year: Ionospheric Physics Kyoto University, Radio Atmospheric Science Center -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Percy, John" Subject: Book for sale Hello all, I have a book for sale: "Battleships of World War II", by MJ Whitly At last the real encyclopedia of World War II battleships! With over 250 photographs and detailed line drawings, full technical data, complete coverage of ship design and wartime service record, you can track the moves of battle wagons from Argentina to South Dakota. Don't miss the battleships that were the picture of naval might! 320 pages, may b/w photos and drawings. Cost: $45, shipping included. US and its territories only and Payment by money order, please. John Percy mailto:jpercy@clariion.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Victor Baca Subject: Model Ship Journal-THANK YOU Thanks to all of you who have supported Model Ship Journal with your subscriptions and offers to help get her launched. I haven't seen this kind of enthusiastic support from any other group I've ever been associated with. I will do my best to repay you with the coolest model ship magazine each quarter, delivered on time and getting better with each issue. This is going to be my full-time job and I've spent a long time preparing to make it happen. Ships that go in harm's way and respect for the people who sacrifice so much to serve is what we're about. Whether it's a tired Coast Guard cutter hauling an exhausted search and rescue pilot out of Hurricane Grace's grip, (long after her hull should have been retired) or a corvette plunging into the cruel sea, you're going to read all about it. It will be original, fresh and packed full of the research you need to do the ships justice in scale. If you hear some nasty rumors on the 'Net by those who wish to see us fail (hey, competition's cutthroat in a niche market!), be advised: We publish only original articles and pay for work on an as-needed basis. We are not planning to, nor will we ever publish any work that has already been in print. Not only is it illegal, but it's boring as 'ell to see the same stuff over and over again. Our goal is to bring you good model making material, specializing in subjects not often modeled. I promise it will always be interesting, though. I started this magazine to give you an alternative to the usual things being written in the hobby world. At least the first two issues will be written by myself and friends you know very well. We have enough original material in our archive to keep Model Ship Journal going for many years and almost all of the photos are ones I've been keeping close to the vest for this very occasion. We're going to write about the ships & the men and women who bring them to life. You're going to see very heavy official plan and photo coverage as well. Most of the plans are in the public domain and preserved by us. You'll have our blessing to use them freely to create new models. We will be selling the full sized plans at close to our cost to reproduce and preserve them. We're also exploring ways to cut our photo reproduction costs so you won't have to part with much of your hard earned bucks to get them, too. Without you, though, it will be like pulling a heavy load on the hawser against the current. We still need to get over the hump on subscriptions, so please call toll-free (877) 371-0290 and I will make sure your subscription starts with Issue Zero. We're printing only 1,000 of that premiere issue and hope to have none left over to hand out at hobby shows! We will keep subscriptions at $30.00 per year and yes, we will accept personal checks, Visa/MC. Before you know it, our May 31st deadline will be here, don't miss out. You certainly don't want to have to bid on Issue Zero on e-bay because you didn't call us first! Thanks again for your support and Keep me posted on what you want to see in our pages. Victor Baca Editor & Publisher MODEL SHIP JOURNAL c/o Photomarine Archives P.O. Box 28516 Bellingham, WA 98228-0516 (877) 371-0290 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume