Subject: SMML VOL 860 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 23:21:04 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: SMML in San Francisco 2: D-I-Y paint chips 3: Re: USN Frigate name 4: 1/125 scale AFV and figures 5: Re: PH & Battle Line 6: IJN Taiho color 7: "Classic" Classic Warships Fleet Submarine 8: Re: New Jersey hull color 9: Sharing models 10: Re: Ship Museums - INTREPID 11: Re: War of 1812 and best navy 12: Coontz class DDG/DLG 13: Midway IJN Carriers 14: Re: ships in movies 15: Re: Ballasting Nimitz, et al 16: Cleaning kits,itty bitty aircraft and Museum ships 17: Re: Fate of the Calypso 18: Re: Pearl Harbor move & battle line 19: Re: Washing Steve Wipers Kits 20: Museum Ships II 21: Re: Tim Perry-HO Scale 22: Re: Yamato deck markings 23: Bismarck & Battleship Cove 24: Re: ARGONAUT Camouflage 25: Re: Naming Ships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: International Maritime Modeling March 2000 update 2: The Ship Review List formerly known as Rajen's -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: SMML in San Francisco I made it, out and back, with most of my sanity and a bit of my wallet left. Many, many, many thanks to SMML'ers Shirley Sachsen and Chris Friedenbach who helped me plan the whole adventure. And a most hearty BZ to Duane Fowler who was my tour guide and chauffeur. Friday was a beautiful day and we managed to tour USS Hornet, Pomponito and Jeremiah O'Brien (showing an Irish flag at her topmast). Quite a feast of steel ships. Hornet is making great strides as a museum ship. New compartments are opening up all the time. Several of the docents were CV sailors and enjoyed telling about their time "before the mast". We lucked out and spent most of our time with a visiting sailor who had taken a world cruise on Hornet back in '53-55 before she was converted to an angle deck. He had a few stories to tell! He told one story about a plane with two engines and two jets (P2V??) landing aboard but crashing into the aft corner of the superstructure. Shirley suggested allowing three hours (a "three hour tour" she said), expect to take longer to really feel the ship and see everything. The airplanes aboard are in various stages of restoration and provided lots of insight to the mission of the ship. We also got to see the forward elevator take a plane (FJ) and helicopter (HUP?) up. I couldn't believe how fast a mass that large could move. Check out the bookstore for all types of naval and naval aviation literature. We took all sorts of modeler's pictures of fittings and the like, most folks knew we were crazy. We even got a few photos of Hornet's blast shields, ignore the man behind the curtain if Duane shows them. Pomponito appears to be largely an end of the war fit, with a paint job approaching MS 32/3SS. One of the locals claimed she had two 5" guns, one fore and another aft of the conning tower. Hard to tell since the gangway sits on the after mount. The tour is from the aft torpedo room forward, it's narrated by Capt. Ed Beach, and provides quite a few insights to life on a W.W.II sub. Pomponito is berthed near one of theferry docks and as each ferry arrived the wakes rocked her back and forth, I hope she handled better when full of fuel and men or there were going to be a lot of green sailors aboard. There is a small bookstore nearby that sells various books and souvenirs and also carried several different ship models. Luck of the Irish, someone moved Jeremiah O'Brien from the far side of San Francisco to the pier just behind Pomponito for St. Patrick's Day. You can tour O'Brien amidships from the engine room up to the flying bridge. Number 3(?) hold is open and contains a book and souvenir shop. Except for the 3 of you who haven't seen Titanic, you've seen O'Brien's engine room in action. That's right, her pistons stood in for Titanic's in the engine rooms scenes. They're well oiled and well maintained. We got to see one of her boilers fired up for a "steaming in place" exercise on Saturday. One of the engineers claimed that the engine room could run with only 3 people manning it. I went past O'Brien on a Bay cruise on Saturday and she had all her flags (including the Irish one) flying, what a huge splash of color on a gray lady! Duane showed me the ensign and jack decals he's been working on, they look great! It was a great time, I was a little rushed and didn't get to see "everything" and missed the Maritime Museum near by Pomponito. Before the rest of the weekend was out a left a part of my heart in San Francisco and an even larger part of my wallet there. Mark Doremus Eden Prairie, MN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Christopher Crofoot Subject: D-I-Y paint chips >> By the time you finish doing all of the research, sampling, and testing, the cost of the Snyder & Short paint chips will seem like a bargin. I have to ask: Why you are you duplicating work that has already been done by a professional ?--- John Sheridan << Why do I change the oil on my car? Why do I scratchbuild? Why should I spend money when personal effort can achieve the same results? yeah...yeah I know your chips will be better... >> Other than finding a 1929 Book of Color (we did--don't ask the price!), the best you could do is ask them to make you some custom color sheets based on their own copy of the 1929 book-- John Snyder << Which is what I've done...And the book was free...thanks to interlibrary loan the book is on it's way from the Univ. of Wisconsin. Since Jon Warneke has done all the work of posting the Munsell numbers it's simply a matter of matching chips to Munsell standard samples. Wow...did I touch a nerve or something? Do you guys build every model straight from the box? No? Then you'll understand if I'm a bit of a Do-it-yourselfer. Hell... that's the beauty of modeling..it's much more valuable to you if you build it yourself rather than buying it built up! I'm well aware of the existence of your chip sets...(no pressure)... if I wanted to buy one I would. Chris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Les Pickstock Subject: Re: USN Frigate name After a couple of requests here are the names The named "River" class ships were: Asheville PG101 RN Adur NatchezPG102 RN Annan Danville PG105 transferred to RN as Evenlode rtn USN 1946 PG 103, 104, 106-110 were all transferred to RN under the names: Barle Cuckmere Findhorn Inver Lossie Parrett Sheil respectively, all were returned to the USN in 1946 except Cuckmere which was lost to U225 in 1943 The modified "River"class ships were: Tacoma PF3 (+,A) Sausalito PF4 (+,A) Hoquiam PF5 (+,A) Pasco PF6 (+,A) Albuquerque PF7 (+,A) Everett PF8 (+,A) Pocatello PF9 (A) Brownsville PF10 (A) Grand Forks PF11 (A) Casper PF12 (A) Pueblo PF13 (A) Grand Island PF14 (A) Annapolis PF15 (B) Bangor PF16 (B) Key West PF17 (B) Alexandria PF18 (B) Huron PF19 (Ba) Gulfport PF20 (Ba) Bayonne PF21 (+,Ba) Gloucester PF22 (+,C) Shreveport PF23 (C) Muskegon PF24 (C) Charlottesville PF25 (+,C) Poughkeepsie PF26 (C) Newport PF27 (+,C) Emporia PF28 (C) Groton PF29 (C) Hingham PF30 (C) Grand Rapids PF31 (C) Woonsocket PF32 (C) Dearborn PF33 (C) Long Beach PF34 (+,D) Belfast PF35 (+,D) Glendale PF36 (+,E) San Pedro PF37 (+,E) Coronado PF38 (+,E) Ogden PF39 (+,E) Eugene PF40 (D) El Paso PF41 (D) Van Buren PF42 (D) Orange PF43 (D) Corpus Christi PF44 (D) Hutchinson PF45 (E) Bisbee PF46 (+,E) Gallup PF47 (+,E) Rockford PF48 (+,E) Muskogee PF49 (+,D) Carson City PF50 (+,D) Burlington PF51 (+,D) Allentown PF52 (+,F) Machias PF53 (+,F) Sandusky PF54 (+,F) Bath PF55 (+,F) Covington PF56 (G) Sheboygan PF57 (G) Bridgeport PF58 (G) Beaufort PF59 (G) Charlotte PF60 (G) Manitowoc PF61 (G) Gladwyne PF62 (G) Scranton PF63 (G) Knoxville PF64 (G) Uniontown PF65 (H) Reading PF66 (H) Peoria PF67 (H) Brunswick PF68 (H) Davenport PF69 (H) Evansville PF70 (+,H) New Bedford PF71 (H) Machias PF72 (*,I,i) From this point the ships are unnamed in USN service PF73 (*,I) PF74 (*,I) PF75 (*,I) PF76 (*,I) PF77 (*,I) PF78 (*,I) PF79 (*,I) PF80 (*,I) PF81 (*,I) PF82 (*.I) PF83 (*,I) PF84 (*,I) PF85 (*,I) PF86 (*,I) PF87 (*,I) PF88 (*,I) PF89 (*,I) PF90 (*,I) PF91 (*,I) PF92 (*,I) Until: Lorain PF93 (B,ii) Milledgeville PF94 (B) Stamford PF95 (B) Macon PF96 (B) Lorain PF97 (B) Milledgeville PF98 (B,iii) Orlando PF99 (Ba) Racine PF100 (Ba) Greenboro PF101(Ba) Forsyth PF102 (Ba) The ships transfered to the RN are marked: *. Those lent to the Soviet Navy are marked: +. The Letters identify the shipyard where the ships were built. A = Kaiser Cargo, Richmond. B = American Shipbuilding, Lorain. Ba = American Shipbuilding, Cleveland. C = Walter Butler Shipyard, Superior. D = Consolidated Steel, Wilmington. E = Consolidated Steel, Los Angeles. F = Froemming, Millwaukee. G = Globe Shipbuilding, Superior. H = Leatham D. Smith, Sturgeon bay. I = Walsh Kaiser, Providence. i = This ship's name seems to have been re-allocated to PF53. ii= The Lorain was renamed from the Roanoak after PF97 was cancelled in 1944. iii = PF98 was scrapped on the slip in 1943, name seems to have been given to PF94 ex Sitka The RN names given to PF72 -PF92 were. respectivly: Hallowel Hammond Hargood Hotham Halsted Hannan Harland Harman Harvey Holmes Hornby Hoste Howett Pilford Pasley Patton Peard Phillimore Popham Peyton Prowse All this information can be found in H.T.Lenton's excellent "American Gunboats and Minesweepers" in the WW2 Fact File series by Macdonald and Jane's, ISBN 0 356 08064 1. Les Pickstock. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Art Pagsuyoin Subject: 1/125 scale AFV and figures I just picked up a Lindberg LSU. Does anyone know where I can find 1/125 scale AFVs and figures? art -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: PH & Battle Line As Eugene brought up the Naval Works T3, the same firm also produced a 1:700 California (which was later bought by Jim Shirley). The odds of finding either the T3 or the California though isn't good. I got *extremely* lucky and got one of their California's from Mike C (who just happened to have one left in his collection that he wasn't planning to build - woo-hoo!). The nice thing about the Naval Works California is that unlike the JSP relase, it comes with brass cagemast parts done by Tom's Modelworks (as opposed to the solid-resin cagemast parts that JSP subbed to simplify construction). If you can find one, do not wait, snatch it up PDQ, because it's a beautiful kit and not one you're going to find too often. The only thing you might want to consider is buying aftermarket 5/25s to replace those that come with the kit. Mike C was very generous and threw in some gorgeous replacement 5/25s he developed for his Corsair Armada kits. Thanks again, Mike! It's a shame this kit probably will never be released again, because it really is wonderful piece of craftsmanship. Based on this I'd love to find the Naval Works T3 to build into a Neosho. I suspect though that finding one won't be easy. Go Navy! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "M.J. Warman" Subject: IJN Taiho color Trying to find out if the Taiho was painted in either Japanese aircraft carrier greens or a dark gray. Any help would be appreciated..... Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: "Classic" Classic Warships Fleet Submarine Hello SMMLies: I was going through the kit stash, pulling out submarine kits for a club program on what's available in the way of kits. I came across a "Classic" Classic Warships kit of a fleet sub. I think I purchased it 8 to 10 years ago. The kit is 1/350th waterline resin with a separate resin sail. There is no brass. This kit demonstrates that Steve's skills have improved with age. If I remember correctly - there were originally 2 kits in the box; one early Gato sail and a later cut-down sail. I gave one to a friend - and I kept the Gato sail. The deck is scribed to represent planking. There is minimal deck detail including deck gun foundations - but no deck weapons are provided. The major problem I have with this kit is that there is no limber-hole detail on the hull. There is one anchor on the starboard side. That makes it an EB hull, right? Does anyone have any suggestions on how to approach detailing the missing limber-hole details? I really don't want to drill and carve all the holes by hand. To make the as-built GATO, the sail will do with minimal rework. The periscope shears are plated over. They need a few holes drilled for periscope head details. The conning deadlights need to be added as well as a .5 cal machine gun on the aft cigarette-deck. The deck guns will come from my spares-box. Does anyone have a suggestion for a source of etched railings/lifelines and deck fittings (i.e. chocks and cleats) in 1/350 scale? Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: New Jersey hull color >> I have a 1/350 Tamiya's New Jersey kit. I am puzzled by the variety description of the hull's color. Could anyone here just simply tell me how I can get such a color by mixing up Tamiya's paints? << The color is Haze Gray. Get the Snyder and Short paint chip set. Haze Gray is on the WW2 USN sheet. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Sharing models >> What some of us are wondering is if SMML could develop a swap where we can share old, o-o-p aircraft at no cost and then make our own resin copies for personal use. Would that break copyrighting? Again this is not for sale, but rather share. << >> You're walking on some very thin legal ice here. I'd talk to a lawyer..... << Well, its like making a xerox copy. If you borrow a book from the library and make a copy of it for yourself thats "bad" thats "wrong" thats a "violation of that publisher's rights". Same goes for taping a broadcast TV show on your VCR. Everybody does it and unless you cross the line into commerical sales, nobody gets a cease and desist letter. Hell, almost every library has a xerox machine in it. Get my drift? No problem with a "lending library" of model aircraft. Capish? Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ship Museums - INTREPID I think that is one of the reasons I really have to praised the group that runs the USS HORNET. There is, at this time, no food aboard - you can get a coke if you really need it - no junk in the gift shop - only items that pertain to the HORNET or the military in general - you cannot just roam around the ship at will - there are tours. And more importantly the entertainment is usually "big band" as they want to keep that feel and that era of the ship. Everything on board is where it should be and kept up by a dedicated crew of volunteers. It is the one ship I have gone aboard that I really feel I am setting foot on a Navy Ship. Sometimes, you even feel you will hear over the 1MC - "Now set the sea and anchor detail" I know that are many museums like this that take care and respect the ship - but at this time I am only referring to one as large as the INTREPID. And yes I do understand that the Battleship museums are really concerned about their image and history. So scratch off New York and come to San Francisco for your vacation! Mike NAVYDAZE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "James Johnson" Subject: Re: War of 1812 and best navy Shane writes: >> Without wishing to appear ungrateful about all this, I should point out that the US was not alone in Korea, Vietnam, Kuwait, the Balkans, etc. and this attitude shows considerable disrespect to the armed forces of many countries and their own taxpayers. << I certainly did not mean to be disrespectful to the allies of the United States. Most of the above mentioned actions were undertaken under the auspices of the United Nations and numerous nations took part. As an American, I tend to look at things from an American point of view. In the Kuwait liberation/Gulf War, for instance, I felt great empathy for the British. They used their Tornadoes for air base denial missions and consequently took the heaviest losses of anyone during the war. If I offended anyone, I sincerely apologize. I wonder though, if the US did not initiate the above actions, would they have taken place? Probably not. Someone will probably correct me on this, but the US is one of the few nations since WW2 to have permanent bases in foreign sovereign nations. I haven't kept up with all the closings since the end of the cold war, but we have or had bases in Germany, England, Spain, Turkey, The Philippines, Japan, Cuba, South Korea and probably some more that I forgot. If any of these countries wanted to maintain a base in the United States we would be highly offended. I would like our Department of Defense to worry a little more about our Defense and be less about being a political tool of whoever is in power at the time. The DOD should not be used for meals on wheels missions, it should not be used as a proving ground for social engineering and it should not be used as a diversion when some scandal is about to break! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Rod Dauteuil Subject: Coontz class DDG/DLG Hi, Does anybody make (or has anybody ever made) a model of a Coontz-class DDG/DLG? Thanks, Rod. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: GUSDOCVILL@aol.com Subject: Midway IJN Carriers Gentlemen, I write in search of pictures, diagrams - whatever necessary - to properly position and paint the red circle on the IJN carriers that were at the Battle of Midway Island. And I need to know which two IJN carriers carried the red circle on their flight deck. Thank you all for your assistance! Grace and peace of our Lord and Savior, Christ, bless you all! Yours in Christ, Gus Hi Gus, Plastic Ship Modeller had an article on IJN carrier deck markings. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Re: ships in movies >> Somewhere I read or saw an item on the filming of "Titanic" that I found interesting. The deck scenes were filmed on one set but were used for both port and starboard shots. Any printing that was seen, including the uniforms worn by the ships crew, was printed normally for shots on one side of the ship. When the scene called for action on the other side of the ship, it was shot in the same place, the printing was reversed, the scene shot, then the negative was reversed so the ship was pointed in the right direction and all the printing was readable. << This is a technique that is regulary used in SFX-shooting. One of the Enterprise models for the Original Series of Star Trek had all its illuminating cables coming out of the model on one side so they could only film it on that side. Also the models used in Starship Troopers for the big spaceships were only detailed on one side. When they needed another shot, they just printed the name mirrored and stuck it on the model, idem ditto for ships with other names. Erwin Who is now strugling to get his Battlestar Galactica detailed with tons of tiny plastruct pieces... (Hey, its a ship, isn't it ? and it was designed with US Navy carriers as background !) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Ballasting Nimitz, et al >> About 25 years ago (gawd) a Phoenix modeler built at 12 foot long Queen Mary and used water ballast to get down to waterline << I wish I had thought of that !!!!!!! My 1/96 USS MASSACHUSETTS (BB-2) has lead ballast and she's so heavy it takes two people to carry her. Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "James Johnson" Subject: Cleaning kits,itty bitty aircraft and Museum ships I used to build 1/43 scale cars (I know, I'm currently hanging my head in shame) and had to clean resin car bodies. I have an ultrasonic cleaner. I fill it up with Poly Scale plastic prep, throw the parts in and let her rip. I never had a problem with mold release. I would clean them after their ultrasound treatment with warm water,soap and a toothbrush. I don't know if it was the plastic prep (which I understand is alcohol based) or the soap and water but if you are worried about it, try both. Most parts are glued to the model using the surface where the overpour has to be removed. This gives you a rough surface for the glue to grab. If the area you are gluing to has not been sanded or roughed up, you may want to think about sanding it where the part fits. This will give you a stronger glue joint. Where there is a large surface that is glued, such as stacking decks, it's not that important. If there is a small glue area for a larger part, such as a gun director, a strong glue joint is desirable. One of the problems I have with the aircraft on carriers, other than not being able to get the types you want in the scale you want, is the canopy and other clear windows. There was a thread about the best color to paint them to look the most realistic IIRC. I notice that the new 1/700 aircraft are cast in clear plastic to address this problem. I have often wondered if you could make copies of available 1/350 aircraft using RTV molds like you were going to make it from resin only use some clear epoxy? Anybody have any experience using epoxy instead of resin? I suspect that it might be problematical. I might give it a try if I am not discouraged by replies I might get. I haven't been on the Intrepid, but I can imagine what is going on. I'll bet that if you look at the background of the person/people in charge you won't find any veterans or history majors, but you will find MBA (Masters of Business Administration) and marketing majors. It would be interesting to compare the financials of the Intrepid against say the Fall River museum. The 3 year syndrome is still at work here. (Show a profit/increase profits in 3 years or you are gone!) What a shame. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: louellet@uism.bu.edu Subject: Re: Fate of the Calypso william cardamone wrote: >> A friend and myself are both building the "Calypso" except his got kidnapped by his In-law (a Model enthusiast) and I'm slowly Plugging away with mine. We would appreciate if anyone knows the whereabouts of the original ship and if anyone knows what's happened to the wonderful documentaries. The last I heard the Calypso ended its days in Singapore. << The following is a direct quote from the Calypso page at the Cousteau Society web site: http://www.cousteausociety.org/calypso.htm "In January 1996, Calypso was severely damaged in a barge-maneuvering accident in the port of Singapore where she had been waiting to depart on expedition to the Yellow River. Water rushed in and the much-loved ship sank. Raised from the muddy bottom, she was transported to the historic port city of La Rochelle where she will reign as a centerpiece of the prestigious Maritime Museum. There she will continue to educate and inspire new generations of the planet's citizens." This message has been on this page for at least 1 year. I hope that she is at least dry docked so that no further damage will occur. Anyone on the list from France (Le Arsenal?) that has more up-to-date information? >> Ps: What about the New Calypso has it been completed and Is there a model of her. << See the Calypso II page : http://www.cousteausociety.org/calypso2.htm The Cousteau Society is still fundraising for the new Calypso, so it is still on paper only. I'm not aware of any kit of the ship. The Cousteau Society did have some problems in the last few years. One of Cousteau's surviving sons and Cousteau's widow had very different views for the future of the Society and have parted ways. Larry Ouellette Quincy, Massachusetts, USA Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) U. S. Naval & Shipbuilding Museum http://www.uss-salem.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor move & battle line >> Nevada - Classic Warships - out of production Vestal - Corsair Armada - planned Arizona - Classic Warships - out of production Oklahoma- Classic Warhips - out of production << Wrong! These kits are in production. If you were unable to get one, thats because they sell out fast! Back order on from PFH. Steve - Classic Warships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Washing Steve Wipers Kits From: "Joe Damato" >> I would recommend you wash any of Steve's kits. You never know what he did with them before he sent them out. I'm just starting to understand how passionate he is about his craft. Just a warning. << Thank - You - Joe! At least with mine you wont have to wear shoulder high, acid resistant, rubber gloves, a HAZ-MAT suit, clothes pin for your nose, and spray it with a case of Lysol. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Robert OConnor Subject: Museum Ships II SMMLies, One last opinion from me on the fate of US museum ships, and their use as floating arcades for our youth's entertainment....James Corely mentioned that, in defense of the idea, at least the arcade mentality kept the ships funded and in place, as opposed to being reposessed by the US government for scrapping. As much as I hate to say it, he's probably right. Our liberalised nation generally has no interest in history, unless it's the revisionist type. For the rest of us to even hope to enjoy the pleasures of experiencing these museum ships, I guess we may have to suffer the postmodern electronic stuff necessary to pay the bills. Or we could sacrifice them to the Gods of iron scrapping....Just a thought Bob O'Connor-ESSEX Class CV fan of the first order -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Craig Brown" Subject: Re: Tim Perry-HO Scale Sorry Tim but it is HO scale, gauge is the distance between the rails and you can have many gauges in a given scale such as: Standard gauge-4'8 1/2 " Narrow gauge-3' or 2' or 18" or 24" or 30" and so forth There are also some old time Broad gauges, five foot comes to mind on the early Erie Railroad. You can have all these GAUGES in any of the many SCALES Z scale, N scale, HO scale, S scale, O scale etc. Craig Brown St. Louis, MO where it is beginning to look like Spring -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Dave Swindell Subject: Re: Yamato deck markings >> Skulski's Battleship Yamato (Anatomy of the Ship Series) shows, in figure C15/8, the white markings that appear on the Yamato in 1945. My questions concern the markings on the aft portion of the weather deck. << Drawing C15/8 is actually titled "Plan of weather deck 1944 (pecked line 1945) For those of you who haven't got the book it is an outline plan of the port side of the maindeck. The reference to pecked lines is with regard to the location of the extra 25mm mounts. The white markings Paul is referring to are small white rectangles every 10 meters along the deck edge from the bow to just aft of the aft main turret, and an area between the fore-aft aircraft handling rails extending aft approx. 1/3 of their length from the forward end. >> First, the diagram indicates that the area between the "deck rails" (the rails used to move the aircraft around) should be painted white. This would seem to differ from the markings/decals that Tamiya issued with its 1/700 Yamato. Is Skulski correct, or has new information surfaced? << As noted above, Skulski's drawing is 1944 and Tamiya's kit is final configuration 1945. My interpretation of USN attack photos in the Sibuyan Sea and Samar Gulf is as follows. One photo in the big Gakken Yamato book (P110-111 and dated 19-10-26, was Yamato attacked on the 26th?) shows very light (white?) sections at the forward end of the aircraft transport rails. The port side looks about the length of Skulski's drawing, but the starboard side appears to extend only half as far aft. The deck edge rectangles are visible, more towards the midships and only a couple towards the bow. These are visible in the right hand photo on p26 of Skulski's book (the sections between the aircraft rails is also visible, but not as clearly as the other photo). These rectangles don't appear to be the equispaced 10 mtrs Skulski quotes, but appear to get further apart towards the bow. Skulski states these were used to make it easier to gauge the ships heading at night. My view is they were used to gauge/estimate bearings relative to the ships heading, and corresponded to compass points, or 5 degree intervals relative to the main bridge. I'm not convinced these markings extended aft of the main bridge. Photo's taken on April 7th 1945 also show the rectangles, again these are not equispaced, but they don't seem to be in the same locations as in 44 - they seem to close up towards A turret and then open up again towards the bow. I don't have a theory about this at the moment, I hadn't noticed the difference till tonight! The light sections between the aircraft rails are not noticeable on these photos. >> Second, inboard of each outboard pair of deck rails, Skulski indicates (in figure H14/1) a portion of the deck was covered with "non-slip linoleum sheets." Is it safe to assume that these sheets are the typical brown IJN linoleum color, and were still in place in 1945? << It's never safe to assume anything, especially on this list! ;-) These strips of linoleum differed between Musashi and Yamato. Musashi's strips ran parallel to the ships centreline and stopped at the start of the wooden deck. Yamato's strips ran parallel to the aircraft handling rails and in the October 44 photo's also only extend forward only as far as the wooden deck. The April 45 photo's I have show this still in place, but the area forward of it is obscured by smoke, so I can't confirm whether the linoleum was extended forward over the wooden deck as in the Tamiya decals. The 1:100 scale model in the Gakken books show this extension, and they have used a grey colour as in the Tamiya decals together with light grey edging strips. Dave Swindell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Bismarck & Battleship Cove First I want to thank all those who replied on Bismarck plans. Second: Today I was at Battleship cove again for about the 20th time. Aboard Big Mamie (BB 59) they are taking up some of the teak deck. This will be replaced by new very soon. As right now I'm a very happy camper, I retrieved myself a piece five feet long and in very good shape. This will be the base for the 1:192 model I will be building of her in the future. Of course this wasn't a gift from the ship. I had to make a donation but in my eyes it was well worth it. I went down below to the forward store room where the teak is locked up. There is a BIG stack of it. I know the restoration leader personally so this did help me in becoming an owner of this hard wood treasure but I believe they will be selling it in the ships store eventually. If you want to know more please contact me off the SMML list. Its nice owning a piece of history, Keith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: ARGONAUT Camouflage This is going to start sounding like a mutual admiration society, but I must say I agree with Dimi regarding the change in colors after ARGONAUT's long refit. By the time she emerged in 1943, she would have been wearing the 1943 Admiralty Light Disruptive Type camo. This called for the following colors: G10, B15, G20, B30, G45, and B55. Steel decks are now painted G20. Athwartship vertical surfaces were painted the same color as adjacent vertical surfaces, except for the rear of the bridge which was painted the lightest color used in the design. White countershading was used, and the topmasts were white as well. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: eddp Subject: Re: Naming Ships Thanks everyone for reminding me about the frigate USS United States ("I was just testing you. Yeah! That's it...testing you") DOH! Edd Pflum -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts The Deadline to pre-register for the SMML convention is April 1st 2000! If you want to attend, please contact us as soon as possible so that we can get a accurate head count. Also, for those who plan on coming to the convention from far away, the special rate on the Hotel expires on April 6th. Hotel arrangements can be found at: http://www.smml.org.uk/help/smml_hotels.html The SMML convention date is May 5th and May 6th onboard the USS Salem (CA-139) Ship Museum. For more information, check out the SMML website at: http://www.smml.org.uk/help/smml_con.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Felix Bustelo" Subject: International Maritime Modeling March 2000 update I am pleased to announce the March 2000 update to International Maritime Modeling. http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm This month's update includes: Photos of Keith Butterley's 1/600 HMS Belfast in the Photo Gallery. The completion of Jake Groby's article on building Revell's 1/96 scale USS Constitution under Articles. A review of the Gold Medal Models 1/400 scale Watertight Doors set and the L'Arsenal 1/400 Sikorsky HSS-1/S-58 helicopter set in Photoetch Reviews. A review of Flower Class Corvettes in World War 2, from Warship Perspectives plus the addition of subscription information to French language journal Navires & Histoire review (which I forgot to include last update) in Book Reviews. An update to the Snyder & Short page to include the new Royal Navy 2 paint chips set in the Paint List. Related updates to the Links page. The next update will be one of those ocean liner/ merchant ship only updates. So, if you wish to contribute photos, reviews or articles specific to this topic for the April 2000 update, I would gladly welcome it. Thank You, Felix Bustelo Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Joseph Poutre Subject: The Ship Review List formerly known as Rajen's Hi all, I am the person that in a moment of insanity offered to update and maintain the list of ship kit reviews originated by Rajendra Datta. It can be found at: http://www.quuxuum.org/rajens_list/shiprevs.html I have done some updating to the list. I have many more items to add, of course. I am using manufacturers' websites to expand the list of products. I am sending out a request for the manufacturers on the list to look at the review list, and update me on their product list. Let me know what isn't on the list, what is on the list that's out of production, and what is on the list that you did not and do not make. I will take your updates and put them in next week. I cannot accept reviews from manufacturers, or from people who were specifically asked by the manufacturers. Only from people who bought the item, and preferable have built it, though I do accept out of the box reviews, too. Thank you for your support. I'll be asking for more reviews shortly. Joseph Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume