Subject: SMML VOL 867 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 23:44:11 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: FSM Readers Choice 2: Re: Resin dangers 3: Re: Samek Kits 4: Calypso!!!! 5: Photo etch for Revell 1/535 Missouri 6: Re: Making Sails 7: Laser printing photoetch? 8: Re: Ballast/solder 9: Thanks Mike 10: Re: Revell U-47: Any Good? 11: Re: FSM cage masts 12: Re: Larger Scale 13: Re: paint peel 14: Copyright violation 15: Re: Paint Peeling Off 16: Re: FSM cage masts 17: Re: Paint and masking tape 18: Re: Bismarck site & depthcharges 19: Re: Cage Masts 20: Re: U.S.S. Indianapolis 21: Larger scale kits 22: Larger Scale 23: Revell 1:720 Bama 24: CVN65 ENTERPRISE 25: Pearl Harbor......whoopie! 26: Re: Simpsons Rule 27: Revell Type VII 28: Period Sail References 29: Re: Displacement (Again!) 30: Samek Kits 31: Re: SMML Readers Choice Award 1999 32: New York Shipbuilding Corporation 33: Chicago, Spruance, & Ship Kit of the Year 34: Images of America Series 35: INR2000 Update 36: Re: Samek Kits 37: Re: SMML Readers Choice Award 1999 38: 1/125 scale sources 39: color matching 40: Re: Revell Emden and Dresden 41: to Mike C. vol.866 42: Re: Novogorod 43: scratch built models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts 1: SMML Convention -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Work? Me? 2: PACIFIC FRONT NEW RELEASES 3: Painting and Cementing Vessels 1943 4: RN Camo Book VolI update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: David_L._Miller@ccmail.wiu.edu Subject: FSM Readers Choice As I understand the FSM Readers Choice award, the models that appear on the final ballot were nominated earlier in the year by readers, the kits and manufacturers are not selected by the editor. I've already sent my ballot in, but I remember that a few of the kits on the ballot were from "cottage" or near-cottage companies. Also, each category contained an "other _________________" line where any kit could be entered as a write in. I think FSM is trying to run as even handed assessment as possible. Dave Miller -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Philip Downing Subject: Re: Resin dangers From: Michael John Zwierko >> The danger with resin is the resin itself. When sanding, the airborne particles can be inhaled and prolonged exposure can cause the same internal damage as inhalation of solvent/chemical fumes. When sanding resin, try to use a wet method (to eliminate most of the airborne dust), wear eye protection (perhaps a respirator as well), work in a well-ventilated area, and be sure to wash your hands thoroughly after handling resin and its associated sanding residue. << Is this dust any more dangerous that that produced by sanding styrene or wood? Which isn't good if it gets inside of you either. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: Samek Kits John, Samek makes very fine kits and I think you would be pleased with any of their models. They are mostly resin and include a small photoetch fret for davits, light AA, etc. (but no railings). The castings are clean and the kits build quite easily. I've built 2 of their German destroyers and have the York and the Alaska in the 'do-to' queue. According the Pacific Front Hobbies, Samek also has a number of very exciting releases planned for the rest of the year (the list and proposed schedule was posted about 2 weeks ago here on SMML). The site you mention with the color pics of the box art is probably: http://www,kitlink.com The Alaska and York kits are also reviewed on the Warship page. Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "larsenal" Subject: Calypso!!!! Hello everybody, Just back from some well earned holidays (two jobs at the same time, very complicated situation...), and saw several postings about the Calypso. Some years ago, I designed a master pattern for a 1/350 Calypso that was never released by a friend's company. 1- I still have 2 ( sorry no more... ) hulls of this model, deck is complete with no superstructures and small parts. If anyone is interested just drop me a line, the price will be $10.00 Airmail postage paid. 2- I have all the major pattern parts to release a complete 1/350 Calypso and will restart working on this model if there is at least a minimum number of orders. As with all L'Arsenal kits, the model will contain resin parts, photoetch parts and decals to depict the Calypso in her late appearance. Release could be by the end of the year. Good references about French Merchant ships in WW2 could be found in the Marines Edition books "La Marine marchande Française 1939-40" and "La Marine Marchande Française 1940-42", a third volume is in preparation. The first two titles are still available. Best regards, Jacques Druel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Nathan Pettigrew Subject: Photo etch for Revell 1/535 Missouri Hello all, This is my first post to the list, but I've been lurking for a couple of months. I've just gotten back into building models and picked up a few inexpensive kits to practice on before spending some serious money on good plastic or resin kits. Starting out with the Revell Missouri and while it's no where as nice as the Tamiya kit, I figured I probably could put some work into it and make it look decent. Are there any photo etched parts (20mm, radar, railing, etc...) in this scale that someone could suggest? Thanks for your time, Nathan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: louellet@uism.bu.edu Subject: Re: Making Sails Chas Leo wrote: >> I recently discovered a roll of drafting cloth (tracing linen) that I saved from the trash years ago, thinking that I could use it for making sails at some later date. The material is very fine linen, heavily starched. It can be washed (mild shrinkage), and still retains enough starch after one washing that it can be formed to retain its shape after it dries. Any suggestions on how this can be sewed to make the sides of the sail and reefing lines, etc., added? Although I'm okay with sewing, I am somewhat dubious about being able to make seams that are 2-4" wide in scale. I'm looking at using these for a model of a late 18th century ship in 1/96 scale. << Linen sails were discussed in great length on the Seaways ship modeling mailing list. Go to the archive page on sails at the Seaways site: http://www.seaways.com/listarc/mbsails.html .. to find dozens of article on using linen as sail material. I believe one technique to represent seams was to use a fine pencil to make the seam lines. Except in very large scales, real hems and seam overlaps would be overscale. Larry Ouellette Quincy, Massachusetts, USA Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) U. S. Naval & Shipbuilding Museum http://www.uss-salem.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Laser printing photoetch? Hi All, I found this link on the Subcommittee web page: http://www.techniks.com/index.html The company distributes a film that can be run through a laser printer or copier to pick up the pattern for circuit boards. They claim a resolution of 5 mils. The film is then ironed onto a copper clad circuit board, transferring the pattern, which is then exposed to an etching solution. It might be interesting to experiment with this product to produce custom photoetch for a larger scale model, substituting thin brass sheet for the circuit board. You can purchase the etching solution at an electronics dealer, such as Radio Shack, and it will dissolve brass as well as copper. Be sure to read and follow all safety instructions, as it is a powerful chemical. Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography Check out our new Weapons sets -details of CIWS, RAM, Bushmaster and many others! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "James Johnson" Subject: Re: Ballast/solder Yes, solder is very handy. I have a bunch from plumbing projects and electronic kits that I used to build. The smallest I have is .035". The lead wool is .008 to .010. There have been, over the years, different people who have marketed solder to the hobby market. I have several packets of solder and lead sheet in my supplies. The solder you can buy at the local hardware comes in two types. The "standard" type which is usually 60% lead and "plumbing" type which is lead free. Both are usually solid and are the type to use for modeling. Electrical solder contains either acid or resin, which acts as a flux when soldering. This stuff is nasty and may do damage to a model over time, plus, if it's used for ballast, it is not as dense. Another handy thing is the metal foil around the neck of wine bottles. I don't know exactly what is content is, but is thin and flexible. It acts like sheet lead. It is terrific for seatbelts in planes and cars and I would think it would be very handy in ship modeling. I would think that canvas awnings would be one place to try it. Go out and choose a fine bottle of wine, save the metal around the neck when you drink it and then when you sober up, see what can be made of it. (honest dear, some guy on SMML ordered me to -hic- drink this wine). This may have been mentioned before, but a model railroad company named Detail Associates puts out a line of brass wire that is sized form 1/4" to 4" in HO scale. That relates to .006 to .052 actual. You get 10 ea. per package and they are a foot long. Every modeler, regardless of what they model should have a supply. Mine are marked $2.00 but I bought them 15 yrs ago. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Thanks Mike >> For the record, the builder of that magnificent model was Dr. Kendall Brown of IPMS-North Central Texas << Thanks for the correction Mike. I guess Derek Brown built the Texas last year at the Nats. so the name stuck in my mind. Kendall is indeed a magnificent modeler and being a Dentist (you jogged my memory) doesn't hurt ether. He's accustomed to working in tight places. He also has access to those neat tools! I recall Kendall's diorama of the seaplane on the catapult, complete with the ships fantail and real wood deck. The deck had many minute, very subtle details as well. The deck hands swabbing the deck were a nice touch. Sorry to reminisce, but I miss seeing Kendall's work. Did he move away? Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Alan Simon Subject: Re: Revell U-47: Any Good? Bought U-47 several years ago, strictly for the 1/125 figures. My son took over the sub kit and did extensive research on Type V11B interior. He never completed the model, but still have the research. Contact me offlist for a further details. Alan Simon Atlanta, Ga. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: FSM cage masts >> Someone mention IIRC an article in FSM that explained how to build cage masts. Can anyone tell me what issue that was? << I know the article you want but I can't recall the issue it's in. However, you can go to the FSM site and browse the complete archival index of every issue ever printed. Hope this helps. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Larger Scale >> Are there any plans for producing the same quality and relative detail in a larger scale, such as 1/16"=1' (1/192) or 1/8"=1' (1/96)? The model size for a destroyer or even a cruiser would not be too unreasonable, and the detailing possibilities would be fantastic. << Actually Gene, it's been done at least once. Classic Warships has a 1/192 SIMS that is, as you note, fantastically detailed. (Now if I could just find time to build it...but I've been saying that for how many years now??). Interestingly, though, I have to say that I think Steve is now achieving the same level of detail in his latest 1/350 kits like ALASKA and SALEM, which demonstrates how the resin kit industry is advancing! John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Mark Vaughan-Jackson Subject: Re: paint peel Andy's dullcote paint peel woe is a sadly familiar one. While I haven't had it happen on as big a kit as the Musashi (for which I give great thanks, my sympathies Andy) I'm very familiar with the perils of dullcoat and acrylics on some of my aircrat moidels. I had a lovely Sea Vixen in 1/48 scale done in extra dark sea gray on top and white underneath. Had the decals on and gave it a final dose of Testors dull cote. Disaster. The grey paint peeled in one part and ran down over the white in several others like bad mascarra at a tear jerker movie. Adding insult to injury the decals were blistered beyond repair. Sad to say I've had the same problem with testors gloss cote. The only suggestion I have is don't use it, at least not over an acrylic. Try sealing it first with a clear and then trying it. I think this is similar to Felix's tape peel problem - whenever you mix and match acryllic and enamel based paints or varnishes, chances are there'll be an adverse reaction. On anoher note anyone have any views on the Glencoe WWI sub chaser. . .good, bad, indifferent? Mark V-J -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Copyright violation If you make master patterns and wish to protect them from thieves you need only pay $25.00 and send a photo of the assembled model to the Copyright office. This small amount may sound trivial, but if you want to see how bad it can get, go to my web site and read "Beware of Viking Models". After reading that, $25.00 will sound cheap. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Paint Peeling Off Andy, I suspect that what happened with your MUSASHI is that when you sprayed the last coat of Dullcote, you sprayed a bit heavy (or "wet") and the Dullcote "puddled" on the top of the main battery turrets (which would be easy for it to do, given the shape of the turret tops). Being a "hot" solvent-based material, it then reacted with the paint layers beneath to produce the effect you've noted. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: FSM cage masts >> Someone mention IIRC an article in FSM that explained how to build cage masts. Can anyone tell me what issue that was? << John, Yes, I wrote that article. It was printed twice, first in FSM July '92, and then it was reprinted in the Kalmbach book "Scale Model Detailing" which came out in 1995. The article was actually on converting the Glencoe USS OREGON to a USS MASSACHUSETTS after her 1910 refit. Cheers Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "James Johnson" Subject: Re: Paint and masking tape Felix, and SMML Since the top coat came off the primer, it is obvious that the problem lies between the two. Lets take a closer look at this. Paint adheres by two methods. The first is what I call chemical bonding. The coat being applied actually "melts" or dissolves the surface that it contacts. The chemist will tell you that this is not chemical bonding in the true sense of the word, but for the sake of our discussion, we'll call it that. This occurs in lacquers. If you paint something with lacquer, you can go back years later and remove lacquer paint with lacquer thinner. Automotive bodymen, when painting cars can determine what paint is on the car by testing with lacquer thinner. If the thinner lifts paint, it's lacquer, if it's not then it's enamel.( These are very simplistic paint names. There are many types and sub-types of paint. For the sake of this discussion and my lack of knowledge we'll leave it at that) Lacquer will bond with it's self by this method. When you spray lacquer over lacquer, the top coat dissolves the top of the bottom coat and bonds them together the same way solvent cement bonds together styrene plastic. This is how lacquer bonds to plastic models, it actually "melts" the surface of styrene. Of course there is a very thin line between enough of this effect to bond the paint and too much which melts the plastic enough to be noticeable. Some enamels can be "hot" enough to have this effect also. Floquil, at least in it's pre Testors days, was this way. Contrary to popular belief, Floquil is an enamel. This is one of the reasons that I used to use Floquil. It could be airbrushed (but not hand brushed) on plastic and then masked with out the problem you are experiencing. The other method that paint uses to adhere is mechanical. All surfaces have some roughness associated with it. The little groves, pits and irregularities in the surface are filled with paint and when the paint dries, these hold on to the paint. This is why people sand surfaces to be painted and between coats of paint. The rougher the surface being painted, the better the adhesion. This can be taken to far of course. If the roughness could show through the top coat of paint.The amount of roughness doesn't have to be visually great in order to work. In your case, chemical bonding does not come into play. There is no water based hobby paint that will attack the base it is put on unless it is made of sugar. This leaves mechanical bonding. You can look at this two ways. Either the primer didn't have enough "tooth" to hold the paint on top of it, or the paint on top was too thick to flow into all the little nooks and crannies. It may be a combination of both. In my experience, model primers are no different than the rest of their paint line except they come in a nice neutral light gray (grey). This makes it compatible with the rest of the line but has no advantage as a primer over any other paint. It has an effect on the color of the top coat, but not the adhesion of the top coat. I used to use Floquil primer because, first, it would adhere to styrene plastic "chemically" and secondly, since it dries flat, it has the mechanical tooth that top coats can grab on to. I don't know what, if anything, has been changed since Testors has taken them over. There are several things you can try. You have to either strengthen the bond between the two coats or decrease the adhesive strength of the tape. Lets look at the first possibility. You could try another primer, the flatter the better. You could try to roughen up the primer with very fine sand paper or steel wool. You could try to thin the top coat so that it is less viscous and flows into the "teeth" of the primer better. You could use water, that is my thinner of choice with Model Expo, or you could use on of the other "hot tip" thinners,i.e. alcohol, windshield washer solvent or Windex. You could even try to thin it with lacquer thinner or a hot enamel thinner like Dio-sol. A lot of times this works on a one shot basis. The paint may be a glob of goo the next time you look at it. You could even try to not use a primer. I only use a primer when I have done some work on a model. I do it to determine if more work is required to smooth the surface and to give the top coat a uniform base. (i.e. red or green putty on a light gray model will show through the first several coats of paint). If you clean the model properly, you may be able to get better results without a primer. The second half of the equation, lessening the adhesion of the tape,you have already received several tips along these lines. Drafting tape, art frisket paper, Tamiya or Testors tape are all less sticky and will help the situation. There is also Parafilm M marketed by testors. It is borrowed form the medical profession. It is actually a wax that you stretch and then put on your model. It is a lot less sticky than tape but works just as well. It is not a direct replacement for tape. It takes some getting used to, but people who use it swear by it. If I were you, this is what I would do. Get a large sheet of styrene and divide it into vertical sections. Clean it completely and prime the vertical sections with as many kinds of primer as you can find and/or afford. Let them dry at least overnight. Take the paint you want to use and divide it into at least 5 bottles. Thin the first one with as little water as possible in order to spray it. Spray the top fifth of the sheet with this. Thin the second with water until it is almost too thin to spray. Spray the next fifth of the sheet with this. Thin the remaining bottles with alcohol,Dio-Sol and the last one with water with a drop of liquid hand soap. Spray the last 3/5 of the sheet with these. (windshield washer fluid is a mix of water and alcohol. If you want, do a sixth with this but it shouldn't be any different). Let this dry for 24 hours, then test it. Get some clear tape (3M Magic tape or equal) some drafting tape, some masking tape, some model tape and some frisket. Put them on your test sheet so that every kind of tape is on top of every combination of primer/top coat. Burnish the tape and let it sit for 24 hours. Lift the tape at 90 degrees to the sheet. This is the most severe removal possible. After you consult your notes (you did take notes didn't you?) see what works. This is a lot of work to go to. If it was for your use only then you could try things till you find a method that works. This is what a lot of us modelers do, find a method that works and then cling to this method and refuse to consider anything else. Since you said you were using this paint as a review for an article, you would have most of the answers on what works, not just one answer. I hope this is of some help to you and the rest of the list. Please let us know what results you have. Thanks Jim Johnson IPMS 1788 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: peter samolinski Subject: Re: Bismarck site & depthcharges Many thanks to Frank A., Mike S. & John S. for their answers to my query about a Bismarck site - super! This seems like such a good, fun bunch, that I'm sorry I won't be able to make this year's convention. Thanks again - and I could still use some help with the German depth charge info. Pete Samolinski. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Re: Cage Masts Don't know about the FSM article, but SHIP MODELING FROM SCRATCH by Edwin B. Leaf has a section on building cage masts with a nifty little jig. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Mark Shannon Subject: Re: U.S.S. Indianapolis >> I was wondering if anyone can help? which is the best photo-etch to get for the Indianapolis, Tom's or GMM, I am just starting Matchbox's USS Indianapolis 1/700, << I have just been looking into this, myself. Tom's set for Northampton/Portland class cruisers has one nice aid for the late war configuration, and that is the lattice/tripod mainmast. Other items on the sheet are helpful, but it is a very general sheet. In addition, Tom's separates into several sheets the rails, radars, and catapults that you will want. Gold Medal Models includes catapults and rails in their sheet, plus they have the yards etched with the TBS, IFF, and such aerials, but it is also a general sheet and may not contain all the parts you want. Gold Medal Models' "brass" is somewhat stiffer and heavier than Tom's, which can be a help or hindrence to the appearance, depending on the item and your aesthetic sense. Each of the Tom's sheets are about 6.95 USD, I think the rails somewhat less, and the GMM sheet is USD 12.00. >> also any Humbrol matches for her Measure 32/7D camo paint codes are: 5-L, 5-O, 20-B and BK black. << Find the ShipModelling FAQ's and look there for some published mixes for Humbrol paints to match US WWII navy camouflage colors. These mixture were from articles by Del Palmieri in the early '80's, published by Scale Models. Compare to the S&S paint chips, they are a little less blue in all cases. They use Hu: #104 Oxford Blue, #67 Tank Gray, #33 Matt White and the Neutral Gray (150?) in various mixtures. Deck blue was suggested as #79 Bleu Gris Fonce (Dark Blue-gray), which is not nearly as blue as the S&S chip, but was suggested as a weathered effect. Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Phil Gollin" Subject: Larger scale kits Re Gene Larson's query over larger scale ships. In the U.K. there are readily available hulls in 1/128th (Fleetscale), 1/96th (Many) and 1/48th (Many). In addition Sirmar and other firms provide white Metal and resin details, from Gun Turrets and Director control Towers, down to portholes, capstans, anchors, etc...... One can buy semi-kits in all three scales consisting of the hulls and sets of fittings, leaving one responsible for producing the deck(s) and superstructure from the plans included. Some Firms, e.g. Deans, include most or all of the deck(s)/superstructure. Having said that, these sort of kits are of a basically differrent nature to the resin/plastic 1/350th ships, and are much more time-consuming in nature and more dependant on ones ability to model from a plan. Fleetscale and Deans have well established ranges, Fleetscale are expanding into 1/72nd scale, and Sirmar have announced a large new range of 1/72nd fittings (presumably partly to go with the re-released Matchbox/Revell Flower class corvette and partly to go with the Fleetscale Hulls) and of course Flightpath are promising photo-etched and resin details for the Flower and possibly some other new 1/72nd complete ship kits. Phil (who has been trying to summon up the courage to start his 1/48th scale Black Swan Sloop for over 8 months now) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Dave Swindell Subject: Larger Scale >> Are there any plans for producing the same quality and relative detail in a larger scale, such as 1/16"=1' (1/192) or 1/8"=1' (1/96)? The model size for a destroyer or even a cruiser would not be too unreasonable, and the detailing possibilities would be fantastic. << Both these scales are popular with R/C modellers, there are a good selection of kits and accessories available from companies such as Deans Marine. These models can be finished to high standards as static's. Dave Swindell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Revell 1:720 Bama Over the last few months, I've been looking at accurizing the Revell 1:720 Alabama and Missouri in part using 1:700 replacement parts. The Mo appears to be up to the task. However, I've run into a number of problems with the Bama. For this reason, I bought Squadron/Signal USS Alabama On Deck profile book back in December as a ref guide. Almost wish I hadn't. The book is excellent. The model on the other hand... Rusty and others here have made comments here about the "quality" (to put it nicely) of Revell's old 1:720 Massachusetts kit. Well, the Bama kit is nothing more than a repackaged Massachusetts. For those of you who haven't built this kit, here's an example of /some/ of the problems I've discovered (meaning I expect to find more). It's a masochistic modeler's dream come true. One of the things I've discovered is that the Skywave (SW) replacement parts I was planning to use for this project seem extremely large upside the kit parts. Yes...I understand the difference between 1:700 and 1:720 (just wanted to make that clear). On the Mo (whose hull scales out a bit short, BTW) the SW parts are close enough in size to the kit parts that I don't foresee any real problems. On the Bama (whose hull scales out right on the money), the 40mm parts are 5mm wide, while the SW 40mm sheld mounts are 7mm wide. Comparatively, the barrel-breech length of the kit parts=4mm while the SW parts=7mm. The disparency between the Mo kit parts and SW parts has been averaging to be about 1mm (acceptable), while the disparency between the Bama kit parts and SW parts averages out to be between 2-3mm's (unacceptable). Suffice it to say, stuffing (an appropriate term in this case) the larger parts in the tiny 1mm tall tubs on the Bama kit would make these mounts stick out like a sore thumb. Even if I replaced the tubs with larger (more accurate) ones, the disparency in size is going to be sorely apparent. There's a 1:800 (best guess) plan in the On Deck book of the Bama dipicting her late war fit. Placing the 40mm kit parts atop those on the plan revealed the parts to be almost identical (re: the barrels on the kit parts are a bit short). Placing the kit OS2U's on the plan, I found the parts to be about 3/4's the size of those on the plan. The deck part is longer than the drawing (as I've said, it measures out properly to scale). The superstructure area on the deck part is slightly longer (105mm) than that in the plan (93mm). Same with the main gun turrets (20mm on the plan, 22mm for the kit parts). The 20mm's molded on the deck are the same length as those on the plan (3mm). The 40mm tubs are 1mm tall, while those on the drawing are 1.5mm tall. These represent some startling revelations IMO, and demonstrate a shocking disparency of scales of the kit parts. I was planning on getting PE for this kit to replace the the molded on railings, etc, but that's now looking to be a scary prospect. Said rails are 2mm tall on the kit (w/ none on the 1:800 drawing for me to compare). I don't own any 1:700 PE railings, so I don't have anything to compare this with. My fear is they'll look like a 6-ft backyard perimeter fence on this kit. Can anyone here tell me about how tall 1:700 piece of PE railing is? Then there's the 16-in/45-cal turrets. The turrets themselves are so-so (they need work). I haven't done the math (since it's not my forte), but my guess is they're too small. For sure though, the barrels are WAY too narrow to accurately represent a 1:720 16-in gun. Those in the Mo kit are 1mm in diameter at the muzzle while those casted on the Bama's turrets are 1/2mm in diameter at the muzzle. In comparison, those on the plan are approximately .75mm in diameter at the muzzle. As such, it almost looks like those on the Bama are 8-in rather than 16-in guns. From what I've discovered, I've come to the conclusion that accurizing this kit using 1:700 parts simply won't work unless I replace a large number of the kit part and scratch replacements for them. I like a challenge, but this kit is looking to be too big of a challenge. As such, I've decided to look for the 1:700 Hasegawa kit as a replacement (and sending the Revell to a friend who's content with building kits out of the box). Go Navy! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: BEN8800@aol.com Subject: CVN65 ENTERPRISE I am in need of dry transfer lettering for the ship name on front of the Big E Island. Does anyone know of the name of a font that is similiar to the boxy fonts used on naval ships? A lot of fonts fit reasonably well except usually the S which is not round on top and bottom. Ben -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Puckhead93@aol.com Subject: Pearl Harbor......whoopie! This idea of filming Pearl Harbor as a drama makes me sick. It sounds like they are using 2 old mothballed destroyers to act as the battleships and filming will also be done on the USS Missouri. Ben Affleck has been cast as one of the lead males roles, and there is still 1 male role (ben's brother in the film) and 1 more female role to be cast yet. Its mentioned that this film is "a love story with World War II as a backdrop." God I want to wretch! Why can't Hollywood just tell the story how it was? I can see the highlights now......another Titanic movie with Leo! Well if there is anyone in Hollywood out there reading this....please get them to make a movie that is set in World War II WITHOUT THE LOVE SECNES...NOBODY CARES ANYMORE. Anyways I thought I'd share my thoughts Josh Mayne Davenport,Iowa -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Art Herrick" Subject: Re: Simpsons Rule >> As someone whose last class was in Regan's first term. I would appreciate it if could you please post Simpson's Rule. << For those SMMLies who wish to delve into the world of naval architecture in the area of hull displacement, calculating the hull center of buoyancy, etc.. I have three books that have served me well in this area of knowledge. PRELIMINARY DESIGN OF BOATS AND SHIPS (A veteran designer's approach to conceptual design for the layman and the beginning professional), by Cyrus Hamlin, N.A., Cornell Maritime Press, Centerville, Maryland, 1989. Easily understood explanation of Simpson's Rule and the Trapezoidal Rule, for displacement calculation. YACHT DESIGN and PLANNING (for yatchsmen, students & amateurs), by Howard I. Chapelle, W.W. Norton & Co., Inc., New York, 1936. Has section on displacement calculation. Reading this book will help you understand Chapelle's discussion of hull designs in his other books. FROM MY OLD BOAT SHOP, by Weston Farmer, N.A., International Marine Publishing Co., Camden, Maine, 1979. Farmer used boat models in his yacht design work, and this book is a good read on the subject. There is also a chapter on building your own Planimeter for 50cents, an instrument for calculating the area of an irregular shape, i.e. hull section, which is important in displacement caculations. This book is a great read if you are at all interested in naval architecture, and the men who practiced it in the first half of the twentieth century. (My old Keuffel & Essrer Planimeter probably could not be replaced for $250 plus, and Farmers 50cent instrument will do the same job for us model shipwrights wishing to do displacement calculations!) I am sure the three books are available through inter-library loan. Art Herrick Westmoreland, New Hampshire Member: Nautical Research Guild, USS CONSTITUTION Ship Model Guild -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Revell Type VII The type VII is one of the few Kriegsmarine vessels for which there is an abundance of reference materials, including of course the drydocked U995 near Kiel. IMHO Revell's type VII is not a bad kit on the exterior. However, it lacks the finesse of a modern kit and has numerous inaccuracies such as the arrangement of the flooding slits on the deck surface, the lack of proper grating around the 2cm gun, incorrect shape to flooding slits on the hull sides. Perhaps one of the etched part makers will take note and produce an etched deck and tower grating for this kit. I have not compared the shape of Revell's hull to dockyard plans, and can not comment on this beyond the overall impression which is good. The interior is a joke. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Period Sail References One of the best references on period sails and rigging is The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 1625-1860 by James Lees, with scale diagrams of various sails. It does not show how sails were made but does show their components and tackle. I also recommend the well illustrated Conway "History of the Ship" series, whichever volume is appropriate for the period you are modelling. You might also want to look at some books on sewing doll clothes if you are determined to sew your own. Check out this custom "action figures" (ok, dolls) website for tips on miniature sewing and other interesting stuff: http://www.flash.net/~jimbob1/index2.htm Scale sails are always tricky, especially in the smaller scales and after a certain point cloth is probably not the best material to use. Model Shipwright magazine #85 shows Lloyd McCaffery's technique for producing extremely convincing billowing sails from paper and carved wood in 1:192 scale. I recommend leaving sails off period ship models. I have seen very few well-done sails, and rather a lot of perfectly good model ships botched with crummy sails. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Fritz Koopman Subject: Re: Displacement (Again!) >> And displacement is always the completed weight of the vessel, generally listed as full load unless otherwise specified. << >> Ah, but is that full load sea water, fresh water, Winter North Atlantic, Tropics, or what? more confusion eh? ;-) << Hmmm.... This one sounds like a trick question :-)... When I mentioned that displacement is displacement is displacement, I say it three times because the displacement (in whichever unit of weight) is the same for the weight, is the same for the weight of fresh water, is the same as the weight of salt water. A 600 lb boat will displace 600 lbs. of salt water and will displace 600 lbs of fresh water. it will displace 600 lbs no matter what the salinity, weather, or liquid for that matter. The only thing that changes will be the draft that the vessel draws due to the different VOLUMES for the same weight. Now comes the trick part of the answer. For stability reasons, the change in draft caused by the difference in water salinty, MAY affect (slightly) how much the ship can carry due to safety reasons. Thus the allowable Full Load Disp. may change. (as Dave has pointed out above) In the case of the North Atlantic Winter load line, the reduction in cargo carrying is not because of salinity (the salinity change between the tropics and north atlantic are relatively small), but is in fact for safety reasons due to harsh weather generally experienced. Likewise the opposite for tropics. The Tropic Load line allows the vessel to sit lower in the water, with less freeboard to the deck edge due to the fair weather, and unlikelyhood of shipping large waves. A good resource to read up on all the load line marks and why they exist is : Principles of Naval Architecture (Revised), Edited by John P. Comstock, Published By The Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers (SNAME), 1967 Now, what does this have to do with modeling. Well, if you really want to get nit-picky, just remember that if your modeling a waterline ship that displaces 45000 tons in the Great Lakes she needs to sit about 5 to 6 scale inches lower than if you were modeling the same 45000 ton disp. ship in the Pacific. ;-) Hows this for confusion? Best Regards Fritz Koopman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "James Kloek" Subject: Samek Kits I have several Samek kits including the 1/700 Alaska, and the 1/700 Bismarck. Although I have not built any yet, in the box they look to be excellent. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: SMML Readers Choice Award 1999 >> Or we could just have our own SMML Readers Choice award for 1999 & then post the results on the SMML site & advise the Mfrs, model mags etc of the result. What does everyone think? Shane - who like nothing more than adding more work to himself or Mike ;-) << Perhaps we could do one at the CONN??? Lets come up with a list 1/700, 1/350, larger scale, perhaps a special for small combatants so kits like the ISW Panay don't just get swamped by the big boys with all them guns :-) Regards, Bradford Chaucer Hi Brad, Great idea, although it "may" be too late for the SMMLconn this time around - damm, why didn't I think of it sooner :-(. Mike & I will get together over the weekend & work out some categories. In the meantime, we'll need to start on a list of releases for 1999 & start one for 2000. I reckon a calender year will make it easier in this respect. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: New York Shipbuilding Corporation Hi Guys I recently learned of a new website about the New York Shipbuilding Corporation that is nice lots of facts, not much photos, but it describes the growth and down fall of the old shipyard and it's role in the local communities. It's www.cchsnj.org. It's run by the Camden County Historical Society. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: TechnoInfidel@webtv.net (John Collins) Subject: Chicago, Spruance, & Ship Kit of the Year Greetings SMMLmates: I will be traveling to Chicago for combination business/long weekend over the Easter weekend. I certainly intend to see U-505 and the Field Museum, but I would like to know if there are any good hobby shops and other interesting venues around. Good restaurants in downtown would also be useful. At the first SMML convocation (lunch, that is) at the 1999 IPMS/USA nats, those in attendance, Ed Gruene, Mike Quan, John Snyder, David D'Angelo, Hugh Lottie, Duane Fowler, Mike Czibovic and myself, agreed that Spruance class destroyers would be the SMML topic for the 2000 event. I hope the rest of you guys remember it that way, because mine is done. Looks good, too. My vote for kit of the year: WSW's 1/700 SMS Derfflinger. But, I would think that perhaps the most influential kit produced in 1999 would be Iron Shipwright's PC-461, just based on the number of people, even on this list, who have built it. Inexpensive, fun to build, and an excellent introduction to resin ships. I would appreciate any feedback about Chicago. Thanks, John Collins Atlanta, GA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Images of America Series Arcadia Publishing of Charleston, South Carolina, does a series of books entitled "Images of America" -- photographic histories of many cities and towns across the country. They also have a number of books on military bases. Three I recently got (covering the state of Rhode Island) were "The Navy in Newport" by Lionel Wyld, and the two-volume "Quonset Point Naval Air Station" by Sean Milligan. These are excellent soft-cover books that average two photographs per page (128 pages per book). A list of additional titles can be found at www.arcadiaimages.com. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: INR2000 Update The following is a partial list of naval and coast guard vessels that are supposed to be participating in the International Naval Review/Operation Sail 2000 this Summer: USA: aircraft carrier John F Kennedy, amphibious assault ship Nassau, command ship Mount Whitney, cruiser Hue City, destroyers McFaul and John Hancock, frigates Elrod and Underwood. Coast Guard cutters Famous and Hero UK: destroyer Manchester Canada: frigate Charlottetown Italy: destroyer Luigi Durand de la Penne Greece: training ship Aris Indonesia: frigate Hajar Dewantora South Africa: replenishment ship Drakensburg Japan: destroyers Kashima and Yuuigiru Turkey: frigate Fatih Singapore: (?) Endurance Quite a few more are expected but details remain vague at this time. They will arrive in San Juan, Puerto Rico, starting on May 25th and proceed up the US East Coast with stops at Miami, FL; Norfolk, VA; Baltimore, MD; Philadelphia, PA; New York City, NY; New London, CT; and Portland, ME. About July 31st they will head to Halifax, Nova Scotia. Some general information can be found at www.opsail2000.org but little specifically addresses the INR. Mike L Alexandria, VA USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 36) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Samek Kits JohnM: I recently bought a Samek Alaska. I'm VERY impressed. High quality castings, hull as straight as an arrow, thin gun tubs. If this is an example of all their work, I wouldn't hestiate to recommend them. Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 37) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: SMML Readers Choice Award 1999 Shane: That's a great idea. We can email the results to FSM as a letter to the editor. Marc Hi Marc, Yup & to all the other magazines including club mags as well. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 38) From: "Bill & Kaja Michaels" Subject: 1/125 scale sources Another possible source for 1/125 scale figures is the wargaming crowd. There's a (cottage industry) outfit in Virginia called Quality Castings. The guy sells 1/125 scale cast metal tanks, troops, guns, etc. for use by miniatures wargamers. The detail level is pretty good, and there is an impressive selection of subjects. Periods covered are primarily WW2 and modern. Bill Michaels Check out my US Coast Guard subjects model list at: http://www.tiac.net/users/billkaja/kitlist.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 39) From: Tadrick@aol.com Subject: color matching I'm new here, but have been reading the postings and the one about the Dutch Boy paints as a reference got me thinking about a color matching system in use by the graphics industry. It's referred to as the PMS color chart. It was developed so that the printing industry could reference to a color from any where in the world and the person doing the job in another country would know exactly what the color being requested was and match it precisely. It's been around a long time and is widely used globally. Would not this color chart, which never changes its reference points be a better choice to try and match up with? The only changes ever made are when new colors are added. The book comes with two sections, the first is the ink printed on coated stock so that it has a gloss to it. The second is the same samples printed on uncoated stock so that it has a flat look. My book boasts having 1,012 colors in it. Has this ever been looked at by the people on the list? Or am I digging up old dirt and this has already been discussed before? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 40) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Re: Revell Emden and Dresden >> Are these two ships of the same class, just with different superstructures? Can anyone direct me to references on these two? Or scan me some info? << The two ships are very similar "sisters", at least externally. However, note that the Emden has two shafts (vertical triple expansion steam engines) with two 4-bladed propellers. The Dresden has four shafts (2 Parsons turbines driving 2 - 3 bladed propellers @ 1.95 meters diameter) and 2 vertical triple expansion steam engines driving 2 four bladed propellers. Someone once said that there were more than one propeller on each shaft for the Dresden. I can't recall the reply to this comment. Roger Clemens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 41) From: isublett@home.com Subject: to Mike C. vol.866 One fears that Blacks Beach is no more as it was. As we become the Mississippi of the West, the city has decided that clothing is no longer optional (nudity was always illegal here). Caroline will need to bring her Victorian bathing machine afterall. But, (no pun intended) if the WEMs show up here, I'd shout for drinks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 42) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Re: Novogorod The Novogorod was a Russian Monitor built in the 1870's. The Samek kit is advertised at Kitlink.com for about $20. Not sure, but it looks like the kit comes with PE. From the small photo I've seen, it looks like a very interesting model to build. I think that this era of naval development is poorly documented in the modeling community (especially the European and Asian naval developments), therefore, I find this particular model very appealing. If you go on to purchase the kit, I would enjoy hearing your thoughts on the quality and challenge to build this kit. I am also attaching an Excel spread sheet to this note (zip format). I'm not sure whether SMML can pass on this spreadsheet to the individual subscribers, but if not, write to me and I will gladly mail a copy to you. This spread sheet is a listing of all ship models I have found on the web available for the time period of 1870 through 1918. The spread sheet contains the model name, era, manufacturer, retailer, prices and a few comments where applicable. If you are at all interested in ships build around the turn of the last century, then this might be a tool you would find interesting. Currently, the spread sheet contains about 62 individual ship listings. Also, I would ask that if any one who finds errors and/or has additions to this list, please contact me so that I can build a more complete list. I know that there is a group of modelers out there who also find this subject interesting and would , therefore, hope to receive some good responses. Regards, RhinoBones Hi RhinoBones, Nope sorry - SMML does not send out attachments. The best bet for pictures is either to send them to the person concerned or to Mike Dunn at the SMML site & he'll post them there. Same with data files, if you'd like them on the site. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 43) From: Puckhead93@aol.com Subject: scratch built models Ok, Im interested in building my own models but I dont exactly know where to start. This area is quite lacking in interest for models so its hard to find first hand knowlege about anything. Like for instance with scratch built is the hull a cast mold or is it made of something else? Well if anyone can be helpful in sharing some knowlege I'd appreciate it Also, I lost the instructions to my Heller 1/400 Bismarck and was wondering if anybody has them in reserve. The stern of the Bismarck is yet unfinished which makes me sad! Thanks all! Josh Mayne Davenport, Iowa -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts The Deadline to pre-register for the SMML convention is April 1st 2000! If you want to attend, please contact us as soon as possible so that we can get a accurate head count. Also, for those who plan on coming to the convention from far away, the special rate on the Hotel expires on April 6th. Hotel arrangements can be found at: http://www.smml.org.uk/help/smml_hotels.html The SMML convention date is May 5th and May 6th onboard the USS Salem (CA-139) Ship Museum. For more information, check out the SMML website at: http://www.smml.org.uk/help/smml_con.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: BECJPARKER@aol.com Subject: SMML Convention I am planning on attending. I will make my own hotel reservation. I would like to be on the Falls River tour Sincerely Charlie Parker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Mike" Subject: Work? Me? Shane scribbled : >> Shane - who like nothing more than adding more work to himself or Mike ;-) << What???? You're not asking for MORE stuff???? Oh, bu**er it........we're looking at a revamp for May-ish (maybe earlier). Do you have an urge to write a review on a ship model you've bought recently, or anything else related? Are you working on a model & want to do a building review? Thinking about putting together some text on some research? Why not mail it in to SMML & we'll add it to the relevant area. If you're not certain, drop me a line. Remember - the web site will only get better if YOU add a little to it. Mike SMML Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Bill Gruner Subject: PACIFIC FRONT NEW RELEASES Sealine of Japan is back in business, and we have just received their first new kit in a couple of years. It is a 3-ship kit containing misc. JMSDF (modern) Japanese yard craft, YW-17, YT-58, and YT-60. It is called "Yokosuka Port Operation Service Division". Nice quality casting...kit no. HS-01, price is $36.00. Sealine has announced they will re-release the USS Virginia (CG) as an improved and complete kit. ETA unknown at this time. We will be receiving the 1/350 ICM German Battleship Konig (WW 1), their first plastic ship kit, in about 2-3 weeks if all goes well. Our price will be $69.00, (list is $89 and change..) Re-stock: From Pictorial Histories, "That Gallant Ship -USS Yorktown CV-5", for $14.00, softbound. From Neptun: 1/1250 USS Wichita, heavy cruiser...NEW....$49.00. From Modelkrak: 1/700 IJN old Battleships Shikishima and Hatsuse...$35.00 each and old cruisers Akitsushima and Itsukushima, $28.00 each. From Clipper Model (Japan): 1/700 Upgrade for HMS Invincible 1982, many small and beautifully done metal castings.....$22.00 From DML: USS CUSHING, Spruance class LATE version w/enlarged hanger, $32.00. Thanks, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Painting and Cementing Vessels 1943 I have uploaded a new chapter for the www.shipcamouflage.com website. It is called: "General Specifications - Appendix 6: Painting and Cementing Vessels of the U.S. Navy 1943" URL: http://www.shipcamouflage.com/painting_and_cementing_toc.htm This is THE reference if you want to know how a USN ship was painted during WWII. Everything on how to paint a USN ship is included in this official U.S. Govt document right down the interior deck colors and inside ballast tanks. This manual was issued to all shipbuilders as a reference guide on how to paint a U.S. Navy Vessel under construction at a government-contracted shipyard during WWII. I happened to find my copy at a used bookstore in Bremerton Washington during my visit there last December. I have transcribed the entire manual verbatim along with all of the charts. Reading this book provides a facinating look at how ships were painted both inside and out while under construction. Feedback, comments are welcome. John Sheridan www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Keith Butterley Subject: RN Camo Book VolI update Hi group, Title: Royal Navy Camouflage in WW11 (vol one 1939-41) Total Number of pages: 56 Number of pages in color: 8 Number of profiles: 165 (approximately) Price: Yet to be decided, but less :-) than the previous titles in the Warship Perspectives Series. Publication Date:Late May/early June 2000 Volume Two (1942), Publication date of late summer (estimated) Stay tuned. Keith Butterley http://www3.telus.net/warshipbooks/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume