Subject: SMML VOL 868 Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 00:47:42 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Mystery Carrier 2: Royal Navy Signal Flag Decals 3: Another dumb question 4: CVN65 ENTERPRISE Decals 5: Re: Flower Class tidbits 6: RN Torpedos 7: Re: Color Matching 8: Re: Revell Emden and Dresden 9: Nautical Hobby Shops in Madrid, Spain 10: Re: - Chicago 11: Glencoe Subchaser 12: Re: larger Scale 13: Re: Subject: Laser printing photoetch? 14: Wow! 15: Resin Toxicity 16: Re: SMML Readers Choice Award 1999 17: model master paints 18: Liquid sails 19: ICM Konic 20: Caroline's Bikini Tour 21: Bias Opinion on Samek 22: Thanks to OzMods 23: Second Battle of Narvik 24: April Internet Modeler 25: Russian Ship [???] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Books for Sale 2: Calypso for Sale 3: TRADERS-Model Ship journal Advertising -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Mystery Carrier Please view the picture at the following URL: http://garth.kidman.homepage.com/MysteryAC.jpg It's a late-war, long-hull Essex with a "Z" painted on deck. Can anybody shed light on the deck marking? Concensus on another site is that she's Shangri-la, but why the Z? Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Dimitrios Apostolopoulos Subject: Royal Navy Signal Flag Decals Folks, Does anybody know of a commercial outfit that sells 1:700 and 1:350 Royal Navy signal flag decals or anybody who makes them? Dimi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "James Johnson" Subject: Another dumb question Here's something I've had a question about for years. I have made a half hearted attempt to find an answer, but have come up empty. Some guns, particularly British, are listed as 2pdr or 12pdr etc. I have assumed that this is an abbreviation for pounder. Is this so? If it is, what does it refer to? Is it the weight of the projectile, the amount of powder or a shell? Or is it a reference to a particular gun that doesn't have the referenced amount associated with it, like a 1" pipe does not have a 1" OD or a 1" ID. Back in the days of iron men and wooden ships, the muzzle loading cannons were often referred to in the same way (24pdr or 34pdr etc.). Are the two the same thing? I would appreciate brightening up this little corner of darkness in my brain. Thanks! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Duane Fowler Subject: CVN65 ENTERPRISE Decals Hello Ben, In about two weeks, when I return from Asia, my decal set for the Enterprise will be available from Toms Modelworks. I contains most of the markings for both thr deck and the island. Regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Mark Vaughan-Jackson Subject: Re: Flower Class tidbits Re: Phil Gollin's reference to re-released Flower Class Corvette in 1/72. I've been hering rumours about this for a while but as yet haven't tracked them down. Is this kit being re-released? If so when, by whom and (most importantly) for how much? I have been trying to get my hands on one for years. Almost got one three years ago but, alas, agreed it could be sold to someone else with a bigger sob story. I have been drooling with anticipation ever since. Anyone heard anything?? TKS Mark - who's still puttering with plastic because he's inherently cowardly and has yet to pluck up the courage to tackle a big resin job ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: RN Torpedos Hi Saw a color photo of WWII RN torpedos in the book Camera at Sea 1939-1945. The warhead sections are painted yellow. Anyone know the reason for this color? Thanks. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Color Matching This one has been discussed before, but I'm willing to do a brief reprise. The trouble with the Pantone or PMS system lies in the fact that it uses inks, not paint. Inks are translucent and the color of the substrate material--paper in this case--will always show through and influence the perceived color of the ink. Paints--other than artist's watercolors--are opaque and reflect light (and therefore perceived color) from their surface. That's why the Munsell system is the color standard for the paint industry, and the Pantone system for the graphic arts industry. Take a Pantone chart to a paint store and ask them to match a color and you'll get a lecture on the problem. An ink-based system is likely what caused the underlying problems with the Floquil marine paints. Floquil always claimed that they had manufactured color for the Navy during WW2 and had based their marine colors on their own archival materials. Unfortunately, what Floquil manufactured for the Navy was inks, and their archival materials were translucent inks on 50-year-old paper. One of the problems of old paper is that it yellows, unless it's acid-free archival paper; with inks, this yellowing influences the reflected color. Remember the problem with many of the Floquil colors--shifted off to the yellow or green or a bit brownish? Well, that's likely the reason. Floquil always maintained to the end that their colors were exact matches to their archival materials, and they probably were; it was just that the archival materials were the problem. Even with paints there are steps that have to be taken to reverse the yellowing that occurs in old oil-based materials. We do this as a matter of course in our historic preservation business when we do paint analysis, chromochronology, and color matching on historic buildings (we're working on the California Governor's Mansion and the Leland Stanford Mansion at the moment). If anyone is interested in taking the course, they should contact the Association for Preservation Technology International or the National Center for Preservation Training and Technology to see when the next paint analysis course will be available. Hope this helps. Ink-based vs. paint-based color systems is really a case of apples and oranges. FWIW, I was an art major and worked in an advertising agency for a bit once upon a time, so I'm familiar with both systems. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com (and P.S. Preservation Services) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Re: Revell Emden and Dresden >> The Dresden has four shafts (2 Parsons turbines driving 2 - 3 bladed propellers @ 1.95 meters diameter) and 2 vertical triple expansion steam engines driving 2 four bladed propellers. Someone once said that there were more than one propeller on each shaft for the Dresden. I can't recall the reply to this comment.<< I can't offhand confirm or deny that there were more than one propeller on each shaft of Dresden, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were. Charles Parsons first demonstrated his steam turbines on the purpose-built yacht Turbinia. She has (still exists) three shafts with three propellers on each. This arrangement evolved from his experiments aimed at reducing cavitation and thereby increasing efficiency and speed. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Joćo Andrade Guerra Subject: Nautical Hobby Shops in Madrid, Spain Hello SMML I will be going to Madrid, Spain during the next week. I would like to know which nautical hobby shops and bookshops I should visit there. Is there a maritime museum there ? Thanks in advance, Joćo Andrade Guerra -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: Re: - Chicago John Collins asked about Chicago hobby shops. Not in Chicago, but a NW suburban area just north (5 miles) of O'Hare Airport, is the Ship Chandler Shop at 518 East Northwest Higway, in Mt. Prospect, IL This is the only hobby shop in the state dedicated to ship models. Gus Kaufman stocks many fittings and kits. The shop is not all that big, but it is a must see if you can get up that way. The three local scale clubs meetings are much earlier in the month (4th, 8th & 19th) so you will miss being able to drop in on one of our meetings, though the North Shore Deadeyes May meeting will be on Tuesday, May 2 at 7:30 p.m. if your long weekend will be that long. Drop me a line and I will give you details if you are interested. Take care, Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL NRG member -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Glencoe Subchaser >> On another note anyone have any views on the Glencoe WWI sub chaser...good, bad, indifferent? << Very old, pretty lacking in detail for a 1/74th (?) scale kit. But close enough to 1/72nd to have a lot of potential. "US Small Combatants" by Freidman is probably the most available reference. Building mine as a pierside diorama, c.1918. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: AandMBlevins@gateway.net Subject: Re: larger Scale To Dave swindell and John Snyder: I agree, there is a need for more models in this scale. I am looking at my model of the Sims Class destroyer from Classic Warships and it was a pleasure to build. Because it was to be exhibited at the USS Constitution Museum in Boston for a show based on ships built at the Boston Navy Yard (this being the 200th anniversary of the Yard), I built it as the USS O'Brian, DD-415 ca: 1940. Working with information provided by the National Park Service which runs the Yard now, I modified the ship to the time period. There were plenty of extra parts to show the ship in many configurations. Al Blevins aka shipmodeler, East Greenbush, NY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Bruce Burden Subject: Re: Subject: Laser printing photoetch? >> The company distributes a film that can be run through a laser printer or copier to pick up the pattern for circuit boards. They claim a resolution of 5 mils. The film is then ironed onto a copper clad circuit board, transferring the pattern, << I have tried it, and it doesn't work near as well as they would have you believe. For on, most laser printers are in the 3 - 600 lines/inch range, which is pretty crude when you consider the size of 1/700 railing. You also use the heat of an iron to transfer the plastic toner to the circuit board. Well, fine. Sort. :-) For one, the weight of the iron will tend to smear the toner, so your fine lines aren't quite so fine any more. Two, you need the toner to get a good grip on the copper/brass, and not the paper, or you wind up with breaks. I roughed the surface of the brass with a scouring pad, no good. I still got breaks. So, if somebody has made this stuff work, I'm sure we would be interested in hearing how you did it. Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Wow! I just saw a recent-issue Lindberg Minesweeper on eBay going for $100 with over 4 days left to go! I guess I really oughta protect mine better. Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Summers,David, Col" Subject: Resin Toxicity Resin consists of a base (usually powder) and a curing agent which polymerizes the base to form the final hard shaped resin. The curing agent consists of acid anhydrides, which are extremely toxic and off-gas from the resin (the particular "resin odor" you smell). Off-gassing continues for years after polymerization. The polymerized base is pretty much inert--it's hard to believe this "plastic" will crumble to dust with time, but usually just becomes more brittle as cross-linking continues even years later. The actual polymerized base itself is non-toxic. Acid anhydrides have a significant irritant effect to the eyes, skin and respiratory tract--in modelling, the primary exposure is respiratory. However, the biggest problem is not direct irritant effects, but rather sensitization: about 1/5th of workers in manufacturing processes involving resin develop overt asthma, while as many as 40% can have detectable changes in lung hyper-irritability. Although the effect is dose-related, it's impossible to predict whether any one person will become sensitized. Some people will develop severe disease from surprisingly small levels of gas. Once asthma has developed, it's not just sensitivity to the acid anhydride itself, but a general hypersensitivity of the entire respiratory tract to a wide variety of irritants. Sensitization tends to be progressive--with time, smaller doses cause worser reactions. A non-ventiliated display room may be some risk, but grinding or sanding a resin product releases far larger amounts of acid anhydride into the air to do its thing. Although sensitization can occur at levels below the "nasal detection range", any time you smell that "resin odor", you're potentially being sensitized. Resins should be handled with considerable caution! Masks won't help, short of a pair of oxygen bottles on your back. (Polystyrenes do not use acid anhydrides; do not have the same associated risks). While we're on the subject of toxicity, the old Floquil used xylene as a solvent ("dio-sol"). Xylene is extremely toxic to brain cells, even minute amounts. Xylene is also extremely currosive to polystyrene. As mentioned by others, a thin coat of floquil bound very tightly to a plastic surface, but a thick coat really did some damage! --The new floquil uses a petroleum based solvent, not xylene. Toluene, the solvent used in most enamels and glues, is a less potent neurotoxin. David Summers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: SMML Readers Choice Award 1999 >> Perhaps we could do one at the CONN??? Lets come up with a list 1/700, 1/350, larger scale, perhaps a special for small combatants so kits like the ISW Panay don't just get swamped by the big boys with all them guns << Sounds like an excellent idea to me. Let me start with a few catagories: 1/350th Capital Ship (Cruiser and above) 1/350th (Destroyer and below) 1/700th Capital Ship (Cruiser and above) 1/700th (Destroyer and below) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Tom Dean Subject: model master paints Hi gang: I am sure this topic has been discussed at some time or another on the list, so will keep it short. Model master paints(acryl), after being assured at the hobby shop that they would air brush straight out of the bottle, questioning this statement and being reassured, I gave it a try. Just like the last time, sprayed for all of 30 secs. Brand new airbrush and brand new compressor, so not that. What can I thin this paint with if I decide to use it. If this is in the archives just point me in the right direction, if not help. Thanks in advance. Tom Dean Hamilton, Ontario Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Bob Zobal Subject: Liquid sails Does anyone have suggestions for a material to use for tightly furled sails? I'm referring to sails as they were stored on the yards of rigged latter-19th century steam powered ships, where they were present for auxiliary sail propulsion and not often used. I would guess some sort of white glue that would adhere to yards made of brass wire, be viscous enough not to run when laid on in the proper shape, and of course hold paint reasonably well (presumably after priming). Thanks for any advice. Bob Zobal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Marc Flake Subject: ICM Konic Got my ICM Konic today. A quick look at the parts reveals a serious problem -- triple gun turrets. The company's recent release of a three-gun Fokker E. IV indicates a prediliction to trios of guns. I e-mailed my concern to the company. I got a response from April Phule, who told me she was sure the Konics were triple turreted. All I have are profiles, anyone out there with an overhead shot? Marc :^D -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: R C Marelius Subject: Caroline's Bikini Tour Caroline, >> (currently wondering if a knee-length swimming cossy might be a more sensible option..)<< I don't know - it may be sensible for beaches on the right coast, but out here in Southern California, you'd attract more attention than if you were attired for Black's Beach. People might mistake you for someone who is making a movie. Hopefully Dave would also be suitably attired. Shane, After looking over the index for volume 866, we were wondering if there was some implied theme to the order of the posts: 22: Re: Tonnage and displacement 24: Re: Ballast 25: Re: Bikini 26: Re: Models with heft Rick Marelius SoCal - where the desert winds are blowing in fine bikini weather. Rick, All I can say re the implied theme is ...... there better bloody not be ;-) Mistress Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Jana & Pavel" Subject: Bias Opinion on Samek Dear JohnM, I have a few of the Samek Models and therefor will try to offer you the best description I can. The Samek Novgorod is a crisp casting consisting of the round hull, two funnels, two steam boats, two row boats and a few assorted bits, including the two cannon in two parts. The photo-etch, contrary to the usual practice of Samek, has railings. Also included is a round grill to go over the center of the Novgorod. All in all a fair model. There is also a Novgorod by Modelkrak that is also very good, but no photo-etch. I am able to do a direct comparison as I have both kits in front of me. Plans are in English in the Samek kit, and of a better quality. As for the rest of Samek offerings they seem to get better with each release. Hope this helps and if you need further info contact me at e-mail: Regards Pavel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Jana & Pavel" Subject: Thanks to OzMods Dear ship guys, I want to share a pleasant shopping experience with you in regard to a purchase of the 1/700 HMAS Vampire, a Australian Daring Class Destroyer from OzMods. I received the kit within about a week of placing my order. Real fast for half a world away. Regards Pavel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: R C Marelius Subject: Second Battle of Narvik Forgive the blasphemy, but I was planning on building one of Tamiya's Swordfish floatplanes, and was thinking of building it to represent the one operating off of HMS Warspite during the second battle of Narvik. Are there any references as to the markings and camoflage that this plane would have carried? I have Tarrant's Warspite book, which has a good description of the operation, and a tally of the weapons loadout, but as with Warspite herself, very little on paint and markings. This may be slightly off-topic, but at least it floats. Thanks, Rick Marelius -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: April Internet Modeler Greetings all, The April issue of Internet Modeler is now posted. On topic items include a conversion of the Tamiya Bogue CVE to the Block Island, an inbox review of the remastered WEM 1/700 Dido, and a review of the latest issue of Plastic Ship Modeler. The cover is courtesy of Mistress Lorna's handiwork !!! I am going on holidays for the month of April, so anyone wishing to contact Internet Modeler may do so through my partner, Chris Banyai-Riepl at alga.graphics@gte.net, or else wait until I return on May 3rd. Regards, Bob Pearson Managing Editor / Internet Modeler http://www.internetmodeler.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 25) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Russian Ship [???] This is sorta OT, as it relates to Star Blazers, but I want to say I've exhausted all my avenues. In Yamato III, four new Earth Space Battleships are introduced. Although they bear no resembalence to their predecessors, three of these (in the Japanese, but not the American series) were named after famous WWII Battleships. Specifically... North American Block Battleship Arizona British Block Battleship Prince of Wales German Block Battleship Bismarck So far so good, but the fourth one is labeled "Soviet Union Block Battleship Norwich" Norwich??? This has been a supreme head scratcher for many of us for years. Has anyone here ever heard of a Russian battleship named "Norwich"? Let me rephrase this. Has there ever been a Russian/Soviet ship named Norwich? This is the name all the translators I've spoken to have given me (and since the name is written in Katakana in the books, I don't believe a mistake has been made here). Far be it from me to understand the Japanese way of thinking, but in light of the other names, it doesn't seem to make sense. Thanks in advance... Go Navy! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts The Deadline to pre-register for the SMML convention is April 1st 2000! If you want to attend, please contact us as soon as possible so that we can get a accurate head count. Also, for those who plan on coming to the convention from far away, the special rate on the Hotel expires on April 6th. Hotel arrangements can be found at: http://www.smml.org.uk/help/smml_hotels.html The SMML convention date is May 5th and May 6th onboard the USS Salem (CA-139) Ship Museum. For more information, check out the SMML website at: http://www.smml.org.uk/help/smml_con.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Jones Budd ACSC/DEI Subject: Books for Sale SMML I have the following books for sale. All are in "like new" condition with dustjackets: Friedman U.S. Battleships: An Illustrated Design History $40.00 U.S. Cruisers: An Illustrated design History $35.00 U.S. Destroyers: An Illustrated Design History $35.00 U.S. Submarine through 1945: An Illustrated Design History $35.00 Sumrall Sumner-Gearing Class Destroyers $30.00 If interested in any of the above titles please e-mail me at bujones@mindspring.com. Thanks Budd Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Graham Holmes" Subject: Calypso for Sale As a result of the interest in this topic I feel it is my duty to let you know what I saw on ebay today. A Calypso for sale at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=296721824 I have no knowledge of this person, and am not affiliated in any way, but thought that those interested should know. Graham Holmes Columbus OH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Victor Baca Subject: Model Ship journal Advertising Model Ship Journal is moving along toward our printing date of 31 May (mails out on 15 June). We are setting aside one page for CLASSIFIED ADVERTISING at 80 cents per word. Your ad will have the first FIVE words set in bold type. This is something you'll want to get an early jump on as the space will fill quickly. Sell those old kits, swap information, trade books with modelers all over the world. Call our toll-free number (877-371-0290) and reserve your spot. DISPLAY ADVERTISERS: We still have good locations for your ad. First come will have their pick of spots to assure readers see the ad in high profile. If you wait and tarry--don't say I didn't warn you! Where else can you get your message out to ship modelers of powered vessels with a heavy emphasis on fighting ships and hardworking commercial ships? No where, that's where. Call me toll-free: (877) 371-0290. Model Ship Journal will now have color covers, thanks to our printer's willingess to work with us on making the first printing cost effective. They saw the simple, clean layouts and are about as excited as I am! Premier Graphics works for large clients such as ARCO Petroleum and it takes something very interesting to make them take notice. I'm not kidding when I say Model Ship Journal's going to be a keeper. We're also making space to add another general arrangement set of plans, courtesy of the Whatcom Museum Of History and Art in Bellingham, WA and the U.S. Army Transportation Museum at Fort Eustis, VA. This is going to be a real interesting surprise that should have military tugboat fans ready to cut wood and build something different. HINT: She's a jaunty little 1/8 scale thing...bigger than a breadbox... It's a special Issue Zero bonus plan complete with hull lines and pix of the builder's model circa 1943 and a great underway shot from Ft. Eustis. Of course, we're still running the main center-spread plan: the USCG post-FRAM 378' Hamilton Class cutter. I still have openings in the log for Issue Zero subscribers; but call soon to assure you get a place in this limited edition. When they're gone, your subscription will start with Issue Number One in September. Cost is still $30.00 for one year (4 issues) and $45.00 outside U.S. May your ships gather no dust, Victor Baca MODEL SHIP JOURNAL c/o Photomarine Archives P.O. Box 28516 Bellingham, WA 98228-0516 Phone/fax: (360) 371-0290 or toll-free: (877) 371-0290 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume