Subject: SMML VOL 870 Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:56:33 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: HMS Havoc 2: Re: Acrylics 3: Re: ICM Konig 4: Re: April Pfule 5: SMS Koenig, Flower Class & BIG CARRIERS 6: Re: Triple Turret Saga 7: Nautical Hobby Shops in Madrid, Spain 8: Latest upload to the SMML Site 9: Re: USS Arizona References 10: Re: USS Arizona References 11: Notes from Norfolk 12: Shangri-La's "Z" 13: Re: scratch building 14: mystery carrier 15: kit vs. cat... 16: Re: Guns 17: HMS VANGUARD 18: HMS Inflexible 1915 19: On the rocks 20: Re: Nautical Hobby Shops in Madrid, Spain 21: Cutting Photoetch Off Fret 22: Re: Chicago Sights 23: Re: Warspite Swordfish 24: HMS Eagle 25: US Naval Historical Center - Photo section -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Model Expo 15% Off Sale 2: Imperial Japanese Navy Page Has Moved -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: AandMBlevins@gateway.net Subject: Re: HMS Havoc Reply to RhinoBones concerning the first torpedo boat destroyer. HMS Havock was, according to "The First Destroyers", David Lyon, Naval Institute Press, Annapolis, MD, 1996, one of the first TBDs. It was built by Yarrow and launched in 1894 along with HMS Hornet. There are some fantastic cutaway drawings of Havock inthis book which does a great job of documenting the development of TBDs. There is also a set of line drawings for HMS Velox (1905) which prompted me to buy the book. Someday I will build Velox. Regards, Al Blevins aka shipmodeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Acrylics >> An addenda from my local shop owner: not to far in the future, solvent model paints will be gone & acrylics will be the only paints available. Change is good?? ... the debate goes onward. << Having made the jump to acrylics, my one complaint is the relatively poor adhesion to resin kits. I clean the kit with mild detergent and water, rinse copiously with water, and wipe down with isopropyl alcohol. I airbrush with PollyScale, thinned to "skim milk" with windshield washer fluid (far more thinning than suggested by the bottle label; I find PollyScale thick). Sprayed on "wet" (i.e., not drying in mid-air)at 15-18 PSI, but doesn't adhere real well when dry. What have others had as their experiences? Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: ICM Konig >> April fools I hope? << Having fallen for this, hook, line and sinker, I have personally e-mailed Marc, and promissed him that ifwas to attend the IPMS Nat. Con. I would give a nugie and a ever popular weggie. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: April Pfule SMMLers: Just wanted to apologize for my little April Fool's Day celebration. You are a great bunch of very helpful people -- and also a group with a great sense of humor. I promise I won't do it again . . . next year. Marc (Who'll be incognito at the IPMS Nationals to avoid promised noogies and wedgies.) Yeah, Marc - the same joke won't work again ;-> Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Volker Haeusler" Subject: SMS Koenig, Flower Class & BIG CARRIERS Shane, here are a few comments on some questions raised on some past SMMLs: From: "jmaze" Subject: Konig References >> Can anyone direct me to some Konig references? Online or the old-fashioned kind (books). ;-> Does anyone have anything they can scan and send me? JohnM << Beside a large, very good and VERY expensive (all-german) book on the Koenig class that might be something of an overkill, I know two good references on it: 1. Warship Profile 37: SMS Koenig, English text, out of print, nice photos, sometimes available on EBay 2. Marine Arsenal 26, S. Breyer: "Die Schlachtschiffe der Koenig-Klasse", German text, more photos than (1), good text (if you can read it), nice plan (I think the same as in Breyer's "Battleships & Battlecruisers) Both are worthwhile and sufficient to build a proper model of Koenig (as well as "correcting the triple gun turrets" - that was a real good one!). The second book is easily available in Gemany - I got my copy during a recent trip back home over there for as little as DM 6.- (US $ 3.-). After all the recent comments on copyright in SMML, I can not offer anything else - but if you still need more detailed info, send me a direct email, John. Anyway, looking on all the cheap software in Malaysia, we seem to have other copyright laws over here... 2. Flower Class Corvette It is indeed reisuued by Revell and as impressive (or bad - depending on your point of view) as ever since 1979. For me, looking on this model, the respect for nowadays Hasegawa kits reduces considerably. Again, I bought the corvette in a local hobby store in Germany, where it was sold for only DM 89.- (US $ 45.-). Only one tip: Revell (and Italeri) models seem to be much (much!) cheaper in Germany than in most other parts of the world. For some of them, an order from a german mail order shop (I personally suggest Frank Modellbau/Airmodel, whose excellent service I now use since more than 20 years) might be well worthwhile. 3. Big (REALLY BIG) carrier models There have been some inquiries on large scale carrier models in SMML recently. Just by chance (and again, during my last trip to Germany), I stumbled across an excellent example of one: In issue 6/99 of the German aircraft and modelling magazine "Jet & Prop" (that might be available through Midland Counties Publications, if I remember that well enough), there was a story about an Austrian building a 1/48 scale CVN-65 Enterprise, including a number of photos of the already comleted Airwing and the island structure - plus one AWSOME photo of the builder leaning against the semi-completed model in front of his house. I think this a photo will make most reconsider such an adventure. At this moment, Herr Matzer (the modeler) houses the carrier in a 9 x 2 m garage, but he is already building a new house with a 10 m x 2 m room to house the model - please always consider the total cost before starting a new project! Finally, there was a question on the markings of IJN Midway carriers (especially those Hinomarus). While I think that Akagis Hinomaru is well proven, the rest seems questionable. The best photos to answer this questionsthat I know are in: http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/midway/mid-4d.htm Sill, the photos of Hiryu and Soryu that can be found over there do not show details clearly enough to either totally exclude or prove that either of them carried a Hinomaru - it might have been white circles only as well. I know no photo of Kaga from that period. Greetings from Malaysia (where the hot weather still prevented me from completing my USS Northampton) Volker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Duane_C" Subject: Re: Triple Turret Saga April told me that ICM's next release will be the HMS Agincourt with seven triple turrets. now you can fire that 21 gun salute! ;-) Duane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "F J Hueso" Subject: Nautical Hobby Shops in Madrid, Spain Joao: As Nautical Hobby Shops: Model Reyna, Desengaño 24. As Nautical Bookstores: Robinson, Barbara de Braganza 10. If you wish to know others not so specialized, and also, all of you need when you are here, let me know. And of course, we have a Museo Naval, Paseo del Prado,5 (Navy Headquarters). I used to had some friends here but that's was 5 years ago (I know How I let that slip?) But a colleague and fellow modeller is assigned there so maybe I could regain my contacts someday... And submariners of the World: I have a fresh-from-the-print Conway's "U-Boats". If you wish, I'll try to write a review and post it to SMML site (Do you agree, Mike?) AS a footnote to displacement thread, I have a book published for the Centenary of the Armada de Inglaterra (Never, never say "Armada Invencible", Please!) regarding shipbuilding practices during 16th.Century and discusing for a full 37 pages the diferences among measurement systems from different parts of the Kingdom, including Portugal and Sicily, and the confussion that measures with the same name but different value supposed to the researcher. Regards from a rainy Madrid. Javier Hi Javier, Yes, a review of the book will be most welcome on the SMML site. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Mike Connelley Subject: Re: USS Arizona References Howdy: To my knowledge, the best reference on the Arizona is "Battleship Arizona" by Paul Stilwell. It similar in style to his book on the Missouri. It has lots and lots of photos at all points in her career as well as numerous line drawings in the back. I didn't want to shell out the $$$ for that book so I borrowed it from the library (through interlobrary loan...ask about it)! I also used "Ship's Data: USS Arizona" which is smaller and cheaper but also has good photos. I got mine at the Arizona Memorial gift shop. So, with those two references, I was able to make a pretty good Arizona model. Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Arizona References Hello Shalom For your request on the Arizona why not try the Memorial itself: http:www.miltaryinfor.com/indexmemorial.htm It's listed there and there's association that has an online book store that appears to cover 12/7/41 and the Arizona well. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Notes from Norfolk (1) Ship Visits to Resume The USN will resume its program of public ship visits as of 1 April 2000, almost 1-1/2 years after suspending the program due to security concerns. On a typical weekend, two ships at NOB Norfolk and one at NAB Little Creek will be opened to the general public. Passes will be required, obtainable at the Navy Ship Tour office (tel 757-444-7955) in Norfolk on Hampton Boulevard. Gates 1 and 5 at NAB will provide passes for Little Creek. (2) INR2000 Downsized The International Naval Review is being scaled back due to costs. 19 ships from 17 countries are expected to participate in New York City over the 4th of July, but most naval ships will NOT be accompanying the Tall Ships to other ports. 29 countries have declined invitations to attend. 15 others are trying to scrape up the money. Even the Blue Angels may not be performing. Pity. (3) Stealth Coatings Touring USS San Jacinto (CG 56) today, noticed that much of the superstructure is covered with soft material applied in a brick shaped pattern (not unlike an old Lindberg kit!). Very noticeable around the stacks, too. The DDG 51 class ships also have this stuff in places to reduce their radar signature. What's it called? Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: James Corley Subject: Shangri-La's "Z" According to "Shanrgi-La to Bikini" (the ship's WW2 cruise book) the deck letter was applied to conform with the unit codes on the aircraft. This happened some time before her first homeland raids, from the chronology given by the photos. During the transit of he Panama Canal, she carried a "38" on the bow (at least) but upon leaving San Diego or Pearl Harbor for her first combat cruise, she had the "Z" painted forward (at least). The Z was still present when photographed on Navy Day 1945, but a photo taken at Puget Sound NSY shows crewmen repainting the 38 on the funnel (She carried the 38 on the bow & funnel during the entire "Z" period, however.) I suppose the "38" was reapplied to the flight deck at this time, as there are photos of her eastbound (north really) canal transit back to Norfolk in 1946. On another note, this book is really interesting due to the numerous "firsts" carried out by Shangri-La as well as the Operations Crossroads coverage. Shang was the first carrier to catapult and recover B-25s! A coincidence? She was also the CarQual ship for the F7F and the first and only carrier to operated P-51Ds during a trial period. I can only suppose these exercises were to support Operation Olympic in late 45. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Victor Baca, Photomarine Archives" Subject: Re: scratch building In response to Josh Mayne's question about scratchbuilding--Model Ship Journal will begin a series on scratchbuilding in a common model ship scale and take her from plans to completed model. Still trying to decide what subject would be of interest to most modelers. E-mail or call me with your vote. This will be "real time" scratchbuilding, ending with a highly detailed replica. Josh, you can scratchbuild hulls with many common modeling or artist's materials. Body putty trowelled between frames/bulkheads taken from the hull-lines/body plan, styrene strip planking, foam, even tried and true balsa (if it's armored with fiberglass) or solid basswood. I once built a commercial harbor tug hull to 1/48th scale using masking tape as quick-planking and covered the hull with fiberglass and automotive body putty (3-M Acryl Blue) to fair the inevitable troughs. A fiberglass mold was popped off the "buck." It turned out very well and to scale. Decks can be made from scribed styrene if replicating wood decks and the modeler can use just about any thin sheet stock that strikes his or her style. Main and weather deck camber formers are made by making one master template out of styrene at the hull's widest point and using it to make progressively slimmer pieces running athwartships along the hull. There's never a good reason not to have cambered decks in scale, it gives the model that much more class and authenticity. Superstructures can be built as solid pieces or by building up hollow "boxes." There are also interesting time-proven methods of model construction using silver soldered brass. Superstructure bulkhead placement is determined by using the inboard profile plan and, combined with the outboard profile; will assure that your superstructure decks exhibit the correct sheer AND camber-in any scale-automatically. It's a lot easier than it appears at first glance to make the basic structures. Even the chicken ranchers can supply you with modeling material. The styrene labels inside their packaging when washed and cleaned up make great hull plating in small scales and can be used to make "fashion plating" and venturi windscreens to scale on weather decks etc. Kinda like using "everything but the cluck." When designing the details that make the ship come alive, everything boils down to common spherical, cylindrical, cone and cube shapes. Shape them and hang the interesting stuff on it; navigating from plans and photos as your guide. Finally, use a few painter's tricks and you're on your way to a lifetime of satisfying modeling. That's the great thing about scratchbuilding models; you can let your creativity run wild and end up with something unique and to scale. Best of luck in your new venture. Victor Baca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "S Sachsen" Subject: mystery carrier >> It's a late-war, long-hull Essex with a "Z" painted on deck. Can anybody shed light on the deck marking? Concensus on another site is that she's Shangri-la, but why the Z? << looks like the 'Z' relates to the tailcode of the aircraft embarked. Maybe it was applied to the flight deck for easy recognition, as opposed to having a number. Just a guess... s -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "S Sachsen" Subject: kit vs. cat... This is a little off-subject, but recent threads requesting kit instructions has got me fired up again... Many years ago Aurora produced a big scale kit of the whaling ship Wanderer. It was molded in color, was big and heavy, but despite my hamfisted modeling skills at the time, turned into a handsome model that I was very proud of. Several moves damaged it, but I restored it as best I could, and it enjoyed a prominent place on my mantle... ...then came the day the neighbor's cat came to visit--the animal for whatever pea-brained reason (it was a Siamese, after all) decided it was a play toy. The model was destroyed to the decking. I was finding parts in the carpeting for weeks... ...a friend managed to find me a partial kit that included all the parts I was missing--even the rigging thread, but, alas, there were no instructions in the box either. There was a time when I'd save, thanks to my dad's example, the box, the remainder sprue and decals, and the instructions, but space constraints stopped this practice. I found the box art that I'd saved--even some extra blocks on a fragment of sprue--but no instructions. Needless to say, I've learned my lesson here, but it doesn't solve my current problem. By any chance, do any of you fellow SMMLies have this kit, and maybe the instructions? I am hesitant to ask for a photo copy of them after the long running thread regarding copyright, but maybe some of my vast collection of aircraft kit instructions might be enticing for a trade? Thanks for whatever help you can provide. shirley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: eddp Subject: Re: Guns >> Until the advent of breech loading guns (and even until the post WWII era), light guns were refered to by this means. I don't know why. << Hi Bruce (and all), "Arming the Fleet" by Spencer Tucker is primarily about breech-loading cannon, and contains some of the history on this issue. The 'Pounder" weight was the weight of the cast, sphereical, shgt used in the cannon. A "24-Pounder" fired a round ball weighing 24 pounds (a Quarter-Pounder fired hamburger patties -- Sorry). Over time, the techniques of producing shot varied, and the actual diameter of the bores used to fire a 24 pound ball also varied. In addition, there was "windage", the amount the diameter of the ball was smaller than the bore of the cannon in order to allow the ball to be easily loaded, and fire withput problems. This dimension varied as the tolerances of shot manufacture changed, and the condition of stored shot (how rusty it got) was improved. The bore of a 12-Pounder is given as 4.6 Inches, so some time between the book's period (Revolutionary to Civil War) and the modern era, something changed. Possibly the weight of the shell was substituted for the ball, but I believe if a 4.6 Inch cast iron ball weighed 12 Pounds, a hollow 3 Inch shell would have to be much lighter. Possibly, at some point, the destructive potential of the newer weapons was equated to the older ones, and thus a smaller cannon became the "12-Pounder". Edd Pflum -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "NICK & JOY ROGERS" Subject: HMS VANGUARD Hi folks, I have a 1/450 scale Hasegawa kit of HMS Vanguard. Looking for sources of reference books, photographs and plans of the last RN battleship. I already have Raven & Roberts `British Battleships of WWII' and Garzke & Dulin's British, Soviet, French & Dutch Battleships of WWII'. Particularly looking for copies of the articles on "accurizing" the kit from `Model Shipbuilder' magazine of Phoenix Publications Inc., Cedarburg, WI, USA. These were in issues 85 to 88.(Sept/Oct 1993 to Mar/Apr 1994) Always have fascinated by Vanguard's high stacked superstucture. Great seakeeping hull but strength limited longitudinally at full load. Oh dear, how sorry, never mind!?* Thanks. Nick Rogers Auckland, New Zealand. [Home of the America's Cup] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: HMS Inflexible 1915 The british battlecruiser INFLEXIBLE wore a camouflage pattern during her time in the Mediterranean in early 1915. There are some pictures showing this scheme while she was in dock at Malta and at Gibraltar in March resp. May 1915. I found them in Peter C. Smith: British Battle Cruisers (Almark Publications, 1972) p. 57, B. R. Coward: Battleship at War (Ian Allan, 1987) p. 28, John Roberts: Battlecruisers (Chatham Publishing, 1997) p. 97, David K. Brown: The Grand Fleet (Chatham Publishing, 1999) p. 55. The pattern seeemingly consisted of four colors or at least four shades of grey (british grey ;-)). Can anybody help with further information, espacially on the colors of that scheme? Thanks in advance Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: On the rocks Greetings all, Two weeks ago we had a heavy storm here in Prince Rupert BC, Canada. In fact a 20,000 tonne freighter was blown the length of the harbour and went aground at the mouth of an inlet some distance from where she started the journey. This was at the highest tide of the month, so she is still sitting there whiel they pump her out and get ready to try moving her once again. The Canadian Coast Guard has a site showing her as she appeared each day since the grounding. the URL is: http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/epages/envres/spillupdate/bovec/ Regards, Bob Pearson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Cataldo Torelli Subject: Re: Nautical Hobby Shops in Madrid, Spain To João Andrade Guerra, There is a hobby shop called Martinez at Ancora street. It has a good stock of plastic kits, books and maybe something more. At 113 Valmojado street is a very good shop. Mainly aviation, but there are photoetched sets for ships and a good selection in books. At Silva street (near Gran Vía) is Autobook: military books about ships, airplanes, armour, uniforms, etc. And we have the Naval Museum beside the "Cuartel General de la Armada" (Spanish Navy Headquarter). It's 100 meters from the Plaza de la Cibeles. Don't miss it. Enjoy it !! Cataldo Torelli. Madrid, Spain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Cutting Photoetch Off Fret Hi SMML, I was wondering what you use to cut photoetch parts off the fret. I have used a sharp number 11 X-acto blade, but was thinking about purchasing one of the Xuron clippers that is supposed to be specifically for cutting small photoetch parts of the fret. Has anyone had any experience using a Xuron clipper for this? Thanks, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: MIKE.LEONARD@customs.treas.gov Subject: Re: Chicago Sights John Collins asked - >> I will be traveling to Chicago for combination business/long weekend over the Easter weekend. I certainly intend to see U-505 and the Field Museum, but I would like to know if there are any good hobby shops and other interesting venues around. << Not sure about hobby shops these days, but by all means try to get to "Articles of War", a superb book store in Skokie. I believe they have a web site with directions and phone number. They have current and rare books, prints, and magazines on military and naval subjects. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Floyd Whitney Subject: Re: Warspite Swordfish I think the serial number for the Swordfish off the WARSPITE at Narvik was L9767. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Mithrand@aol.com Subject: HMS Eagle Hello SMMLies iv'e been asked to build a 1/700 scale model of the WW11 aircraft carrier HMS Eagle for a friends father in law. He was serving onboard the Eagle when she was sunk and would like the ship depicted as she was just prior to this. The problem is, according to him the aircraft carried were RAF spitfires with no folding wing capabilities. I have little knowledge of this type of ship and would be grateful for any info on this matter. I do know she spent about three months in scottish waters whilst the RAF practised landing on a moving object. TTFN Roy"DARBY"Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Ed Grune Subject: US Naval Historical Center - Photo section Hello SMMLies This week at the USNHC - Photo Section there is a large addition of photos of the USS Enterprise (CV-6). The photos cover her career - showing both ship "portrait" shots, as well as air-wing and combat shots. There is also a new section on the IJN Type D minisubs. Check it at http://history.navy.mil/photos/whatsnew.htm Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts The Deadline to pre-register for the SMML convention is April 1st 2000! If you want to attend, please contact us as soon as possible so that we can get a accurate head count. Also, for those who plan on coming to the convention from far away, the special rate on the Hotel expires on April 6th. Hotel arrangements can be found at: http://www.smml.org.uk/help/smml_hotels.html The SMML convention date is May 5th and May 6th onboard the USS Salem (CA-139) Ship Museum. For more information, check out the SMML website at: http://www.smml.org.uk/help/smml_con.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Conan35@aol.com Subject: Model Expo 15% Off Sale Model Expo is having a 15% off sale thru 4/6/2000. Covers ALL products, except the Shipways Constitution, Miss Adventure, and Rivarossi Remanufactured locos. Also, have Floquil military colors close-out from 99¢-69¢ per bottle, many to choose from. See over 4300 items on our website at http://www.modelexpoinc.com Best Regards Rob Finley Web Site Mgr. Model Expo, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Jon Parshall Subject: Imperial Japanese Navy Page Has Moved The Imperial Japanese Navy Page has moved to a new home! http://www.combinedfleet.com Thanks, jon parshall Owner and Chief Instigator -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Mike" Subject: Latest upload to the SMML Site Hi all, Well, we have various new bits up on the site. Apart from catching up with the Archives (all to this issue) and indexing them, we also have a couple of new pics in Pic Post for you, in answer to some recent questions on the Novograd & german torpedos. In addition, RhinoBones mentioned an Excel list of WW1 era ships - this is now available from Hints'n'Tips in Acrobat PDF format. And we have a new Poll available, for where people want the site to go. One last thing - we have had to make some more structural changes to the site. If you find any broken links, please refresh the page to make sure you aren't loading from local cache. If it still fails, please inform Shane or myself, letting us know what page you were on, and what you were trying to do. Many thanks, Mike SMML Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume