Subject: SMML VOL 874 Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 00:05:54 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Shangri La and P-51's 2: Re: P-51s and the Blackburn Buccaneer 3: Re: white rectangles on the Yamato 4: Re: USS HORNET & JAG 5: Re: Scratch building hulls 6: Kombrig Kirov & USN Aviation Could-have-beens 7: Re: Vac form help 8: Re: London 9: Re: WSW SMS Derfflinger 10: Sense of Humour 11: pivot guns 12: WR Press & Gakken 13: Re: Beatties 14: Hornet and JAG 15: Model Master Paints 16: Might have beens that were 17: shinano 18: Sale of ESSEX CV's?? 19: Re: F-111B 20: Wave-Line Cruisers 21: Flag decal review on Warship 22: Emden Info 23: Gearbox Problems, 1/125 Lindberg Blue Devil DD 24: shang cruisebook 25: HMS Neptune 26: Pearl Harbor Movie Update 27: Re: April Fools 28: dangerous folly 29: Re: Odd Navy Planes 30: Re: 1990`s Vac-u-former 31: SMS Derfflinger at Skagerrak/Jutland 32: Beatties Shops 33: Re: USN mustangs and other such might have beens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Scratch Building with Model Ship Journal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: THENRYS@aol.com Subject: Shangri La and P-51's >> The photo showed the Stang in what appeared to be USAAF markings with a bare-metal finish. Wish I remembered the serial, but still...a 51 done up in Midnight Blue...hmm (considering I've got an unbuilt Tamiya 51D sitting on the shelf behind me...) << I built a ficticious F-51 recon Mustang in Gloss Sea Blue and with folding wings for a contest theme award a few years ago. It remains the only hypothetical build I've ever done but it was fun and yes, a Mustang in those colors (with a Bunker Hill Arrow on the tail) does look good. I can send a scan if anyone's interested. Todd Henry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: JohnVCP@aol.com Subject: Re: P-51s and the Blackburn Buccaneer Re P-51s and the Blackburn Buccaneer and the use of same by the USN; come on, who in their right mind would want a Fleet Air Arm aircraft after seeing what they had during WW 2? One has to be kidding here. I have trouble envisioning a "Stringbag" attacking Japanese ships in the Pacific! John Heasel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: JohnVCP@aol.com Subject: Re: white rectangles on the Yamato Re the white rectangles on the Yamato - it was common practice to place predetermined marks on ships so that the navigator could "double the angle off the bow'' to determine distances to other objects / shorelines / etc. These were always measured from the bow (relative bearing zero) and in the USN measured clockwise from the bow (stern = 180) back around to the bow (port side amidships being 270); the RN used "RED" bearings (0 to 180) on the port side and "GREEN" bearings (0 to 180) on the starboard side - as did, I think, the German Navy. Maybe these were for that purpose? Or were they there to assist the lookouts in reporting enemy a/c or other targets? John Heasel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: USS HORNET & JAG I too saw her at Hunters Point the day befoe she was to be scrapped and yes paint was hanging from the overhead, especially towards the stern where there was also a lot of rust. A lot of the credit for saving her goes to Captain Dodge the C.O. of Alameda Naval Air Station who wanted her for the V.J Day celebration. Also to a gentleman named Ray Vieta (sp?) who was instrumental in getting the ball rolling on saving her. However, he passed away a few years ago but his wife is still an active participate in the ship's activites. She has come a long way and looks nothing like she used to including the thick sprayed on insulation/protective that covered the entire flightdeck. She is now sparkling with some additional help from the USS ORISKANY as parts where used from her including the two massive radar screens that have been added. WELL DONE ALL!! Mike NAVYDAZE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Scratch building hulls I have really enjoyed the scratch building thread as of late. I'd like to know the ways to scratch build a hull from the folks on this list. There are several different techniques I know of but I would to find a better way than what I use if there is one. I cut the hull sections (stations) from sheet styrene and mount them to a sheet styrene keel at the proper positions. I then cut bass wood slabs to fill in between the plastic hull sections. It's then a matter of sanding down the bass wood until you reach plastic. The result is an exact match of the hull. Anyone know a better way? Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: TechnoInfidel@webtv.net (John Collins) Subject: Kombrig Kirov & USN Aviation Could-have-beens Greetings SMMLmates: Thanks for the information on Chicago. Pity about the Articles of War bookstore, though; I doubt if New Mexico is on the Chicago Transit Authority's routes. I just bought the Kombrig Russian WWII cruiser Kirov. It was better than I thought, about equal to early Samek efforts although not as cleanly cast. The instructions, however, consisted of a plan view and a note in Russian that I took to mean "assemble the parts to look like this." No one ever said modeling was always easy. It did have an English note, 'for more details see "Modelist-Konstruktor" NN 5, 11, 1991.' Does anyone have access to this or any other references on the Kirov class cruisers? I have Whitley's cruiser book. USN Aviation could-have-beens: I saw a model built as a navalized P-51D painted in overall dark gloss blue. The Navy should have bought it because it looks so good. Last year, "Aviation Journal" (or some similar publication--the name eludes me at the moment) had an article about Su-27s which included a computer retouched photo of a Su-27 in USN markings flying in formation with a F-18. Personally, I think the USAF and USN should buy a squadron's worth. They would certainly be cheaper. What a novel thought for military procurement. Nonetheless, Su-27s look great in USN colors. Again, thanks for the tips about Chicago. John Collins Atlanta, GA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Vac form help >> I am planning to make 1/400 scale British 6" triples, Japanese 8" twins, and host of smaller parts to complete my various conversion projects. Any help or suggestions re. making the molds or what plastic to use will be most welcome. << The best way to make molds is to do it the way the vac from guys have done all along. The "male" master pattern has to be made from solid styrene or wood with metal details added last. Be sure to add a piece of plastic on the bottom of the male part to elevate it from the deck of the vac forming machine. This is important so the plastic sheet will be drawn under the edge a bit. As far as plastic sheet goes, Squadron Mail Order sells a product called thermoform. It's a very thin plastic used to heat over a candle. When the plastic droops from the heat you quickly pull the plastic over your canopy master. It should work well for vac form projects. Since it's so thin, add fill the vac formed part with plaster to firm up the parts. Hope this helps. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Mike" Subject: Re: London Well, Shane made a good start - they'll keep ya going . But - just up-river from the Belfast is the 1:1 replica of the Golden Hinde (and yes, I am still planning a photo-shoot there in the near future - just waiting for better weather). Cross over and walk up the Embankment and you pass a WW1 coastal monitor (don't ask me which one - they converted/renamed her years ago to HMS President), with a WW2 destroyer (looks like a J class hull, so that opens it up to the O-Z classes as well.....!) 100 yards further up - again, converted/renamed years back to Wellington. The Submariners Memorial is between these two vessels. Call over to the Science Museum in Kensington and go up to the 3rd floor, I think. Lots of ship-related stuff there, including many lovely models from pre-Egyptian times to the modern day - subs as well. Another photo-shoot beckons this year . If you can go further afield, get the train (from London Bridge) down to Chatham Docks (get the bus from there - it's a LONG walk). Loads of stuff there for you, under an hour away. If you are feeling more adventurous, get the train (same station) to Portsmouth and go to Flagship Portsmouth (50 yards from the station) as well as the submarine museum across the water, about 2 hours away. Make time for a water-tour as well, past the remnants of the Royal Navy....... Just remember for these - PLENTY of film and SPARE BATTERIES !!!!! Mike SMML Webmaster South London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Re: WSW SMS Derfflinger >> Who is right? anybody know? I will need more detailed Pictures to do this kit justice .. << According to most of my sources WSW is right, Breyer is wrong. The High Seas Fleet started adding tripods to their ships after the battle of Jutland. I don't know if it had to to with lessons from the battle or if they had decided on this earlier on. Pieter Cornelissen Delft, The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Denis L Johnson Subject: Sense of Humour I resent the implication that Americans have no sense of humour. In support I ask you to check out our choices for presidential candidates. Denis Johnson In Tampa, Florida, where we have had a year-long drought -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: pivot guns Hi Peter, Saw your post on SMML. MAN-O-WAR by Donald Macintyre (yes, that Donald Macintyre) has an excellent illustration on p.96 of a 7" Armstrong muzzle-loading pivot gun, and WARRIOR by Andrew Lambert has an excellent drawing of a breech-loading 110 pounder on sliding carriage also on page 96. There are numerous other sketches and photos in that book that might be of use. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Franz Aigner GmbH" Subject: WR Press & Gakken 1) On March 28, I ordered 3 books from WR Press. On April 3, they were delivered to my home in Austria. Very impressive service indeed. Took me longer to post this message. 2) Are the Gakken books of use as I do not read Japanese? Are they mostly photos & plans or more text? Greetings to all, Richard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: geoff-smith@cwcom.net Subject: Re: Beatties >> Just a bit of (oldish) news for British modellers. It would seem that the Beatties chain of model/toy stores have called in the receivers (about 10 days ago). At present the staff are awaiting info as to whether they will be "down-sized" and "saved" or whether the chain is to close or be sold-off. What that means for the British modelling scene, I can't judge. << Sad to see this happen to any hobby shop but I don't suppose it'll make an earth shattering impact. The last time I bothered to call into their stores I was appalled at the change. Computer software, console games, toys were there in plenty but their stock of hobby material of any kind was not worth bothering with. I can get the same Airfix, Revell and Matchbox in the local hobby shop, Beatties was always at least a 30 mile drive away. They won't be missed in the NW UK. (IMHO) Regards, Geoff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Shirley Sachsen Subject: Hornet and JAG >> Watched a rerun of JAG on the USA cable network tonight. Most of the show was supposed to have taken place on the Hornet after she was tied up at Alameda and before she became a museum. The exterior shots showed a ship suffering from more than it's fair share of abuse. I assume that the film crew did nothing to change the appearance of the ship (for better or for worse). If this is the case, the museum folks have earned a major BZ for cleaning her up and making her look a lot like a fighting ship. << you're right, the film crew didn't change much of anything on the ship. The episode was filmed long before the Foundation got the ship. What 'we' (this happened before my tenure) got out of the deal was the removal of elevator 3 from the flight deck (it wasn't rehung until August '98 after we opened to the public). What the film/editing crew did do was play fast and loose with locations. For instance, some of the driving scenes: what you saw out the driver's window was nowhere near what you saw out of the passenger window. And what passed for Alameda City Hall was nothing I recognized (never mind we don't have a 'homicide unit'). Also, what they used for the air station admin bldg. was really the Officer's Club. The admin bldg. showed up in the first run episode a couple weeks ago as something else entirely. once the Foundation got the ship, major restoration commenced. What you saw when you visited was accomplished in three months. Work started the day after we got the ship on May 27, 98, and we were open to the public by Aug. 27, 98. Elevator 3 was remounted the following week. Other bits of news: our F9F Panther arrived last week--rough but restorable. It is a photo version, and shows evidence of having spent some time at NAS Alameda in 1952. s -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Model Master Paints Anybody who is using the Testor Model Master line of water based paints in an airbrush should take a look at some of the products Testor has marketed to be used with them. #50496 Acryl Thinner (contains propylene glycol) works very well with these paints, much better than water or isopropanol/rubbing alcohol. For cleaning the parts of the Aztek airbrush, the Concentrated Airbrush Cleaner (contains ethylene glycol monobutyl ether) performs very well also. Testor sells #50498 Dried Paint Solvent (contains n-methylpyrrolidone and glycol ether), which is another effective material for cleaning the Aztek. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "James Johnson" Subject: Might have beens that were The current thread is about USAAC and USAF aircraft that might have been used on carriers, but there was one example of a USAF airplane that I want to get around to modeling one of these days That wasn't carrier based. The navy in the 50's had several B-47 bombers that they used as weather planes. They were natural metal with a big NAVY on the fuselage. At my model club meetings, I am surrounded by Air Force fans. I delight in pointing out that the USAF flies quite a number of USN planes. The F-4 Phantom is the most obvious example, but there are the A-7 Corsair 2, the A-1 Skyraider, the B-66 (A-3) Destroyer/Skywarrior, and the F-86 was just a FJ-1 with crooked wings. I also point out that the few times a USAF type was forced down the throat of the USN, they choked and spit it up, i.e. F-111B and F-16. We have some interesting meetings sometimes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: zwood@webtv.net (Zack Wood) Subject: shinano Hey SMMLies I just got the new Tamiya Shinano and wanted to leave the flight deck loose so I could add some detail to the hanger does anyone know of a source for photos of the hangar on japanese CV's, I know there aren't any photos of Shinano's and I'd at least like a plausible starting point. Thanks for any help Zachary N. Wood -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Robert OConnor Subject: Sale of ESSEX CV's?? SMMLies, Does anyone out there know the reason the US did not sell any of the mothballed ESSEX class hulls to allied foriegn navies? I know Canada considered buying one in the late 60's, but budget constraints prevented it. There were so many potential buyers out there-Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Netherlands, Spain,France, India, Australia, to name a few. I can't believe we didn't have an interest in unloading surplus cv's as the supercarrier concept took over. Many of the above bought surplus Brit ships, all of which were very servicable into the 70's. I can't help but think (there's that burning smell again...) that some of the last ships in service, or those with relatively few years of active duty, would have been ideal for export. Just a thought (smell burning AGAIN!!!).. Bob O'Connor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: F-111B >> his was the source of the famous quote from an Admiral to a Senate committee "Senator, there isn't enough thrust in all of Christendom..." to make a fighter out of the F-111. Thus (through a rather deviant route) was the F-14 born. << And that was Admiral Thomas Moorer. As a result, the Naval aviators had the plane they really wanted, the Phoenix equipped VFX. It was designated the F-14, and in honor of Admiral Moorer, it was the Tomcat. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Wave-Line Cruisers Got my first Wave-Line kit, #WL-063 USS Reeves, also sold as USS Leahy, in 1/700 scale. Multimedia model includes resin, injected plastic, and white metals parts, as well as some brass wire for antennas. Approximately 15 resin parts constitute the hull, superstructure, and ships boats. A few alternate parts are supplied for various sister ships, as all did not look exactly the same over their careers. The resin is fairly soft and easy to cut (a good thing since the raised helo markings molded to the deck would be about two scale feet tall!). The white metal parts (about 22 of them) are for the davits, radomes, and mack platforms. The remainder of the parts are supplied in the form of Skywave accessory sprues: one Modern USN set for the ASROC, Harpoon, CIWS, etc. and two Modern Japanese/NATO sets for the four SPG-55 radars and twin Standard missile launchers. A decal sheet is also provided with a selection of names, hull numbers, and warning and helo deck stripes. No railings or other etched brass are included. Instructions are in Japanese only but it's easy enough to follow the illustrations. Overall, highly recommended. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Flag decal review on Warship Check out the Warship site under the "What's New" section. There you'll find my review along with scans of the new flag decals by Duane Fowler mentioned here in an earlier post. The scans just don't do them justice. You must see them to really appreciate the detail and color. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Emden Info In addition to links at Warship and Navismagazine, articles on building EMDEN appeared in the following: Model Ship Builder #118, March-April 1999 Model Ship Builder #119, May-June 1999 Scale Models International, June 1995 There is also Warship Profile #25, October 1972, if you can find one! Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "S Sachsen" Subject: Gearbox Problems, 1/125 Lindberg Blue Devil DD >> Can anyone offer suggestions for repair (short of machining brass gears) or replacement of gearbox which operates rudder and main armament animation? After test running, several plastic gears began to wobble and now bind after 1-2 seconds running. << I'd suggest stripping a photo copier or daisy wheel printer. These sorts of office machines have all sorts of gears of various sizes and ratios usually out of metal or nylon. Check out computer shows, flea markets, or electronic surplus stores (doesn't every town have one of these? classic examples of IMSAI 8080 machines stripped down to their chassis in big heaps on the floor?) or even the surplus equipment dept. where you work. You're very likely to find something close that will serve. Or, there's always the radio control crowd--the Tamiya Tiger Tank R/C capable model has a very elaborate metal gearbox therein. s -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "S Sachsen" Subject: shang cruisebook Oh, Shirley forgot to mention that the foldout was taken in front of the ship giving a very large profile view photo of the Shang! The ship appears to be about the same length as the Revell kit (1/540) I certainly did! That photo was worth the price of the book altogether, too. s (another cruise book collector...) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: HMS Neptune It is stated that the cruiser Neptune was painted in a dazzle type camouflage around July/August of 1940. Does anyone know of any photos taken of her in the latter half of 1940 through to the time of going into refit in Febuary 1941 showing her in camouflage. I ask knowing that the chances of getting anything are remote. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Marc Flake Subject: Pearl Harbor Movie Update SMMLers: It is with some disappointment that I post this message. Judging from photographs being taken in Pearl Harbor, there will be no large battleship models built for this movie. What we'll get are attacks on destroyers carrying one five-inch mount forward. To represent Battleship Row, the Navy has moored three or four mothballed destroyers, the Whipple and Holt have been identified as two of them, near the battleship Missouri. Filming has started with Zeros, Vals and Kates buzzing the retired warships. They haven't even bothered to remove the hull numbers. Photos of the filming can be seen at http://www.geocities.com/sc21cool/pictures.htm If you're interested in keeping up with the filming, put the Pearl Harbor Web Cam on your Favorites/Bookmarks list at www.dohc.com/aloha/ I looked in one morning and saw three Zeroes buzzing the harbor. They move the perspective around every now and then and have focused on the Missouri during the filming. Most of the filming is being done at dusk, not dawn. Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Re: April Fools >> To keep to the maritime theme no ship in Britain has ever been launch on April 1st. << Note that the Tirpitz was launched on April 1, 1939. >> Even our BBC has indulged in the occasion joke. (remember the Spaghetti trees) << Yes, I remember as a kid watching the spaghetti festival on US public television (as compared to commercial television), with all of the rites and celebrations. I believed it for years, probably even after seeing pasta being made. Roger Clemens Hinsdale, Illinois -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Fred Kennamer Subject: dangerous folly Marc's jest was truly dangerous and reckless; how many more Konigs will I now have to buy to offset the damage done and continue my quest to sucker manufacturers to produce WW1 ships? Shall I never see a real u-boat in a reasonable scale? It's a tough enough world without all these "humorists" cluttering things up. It's truly time to refocus ourselves as real shipmodel-building men to our true tasks: xenophobia, gynophobia, liberal-baiting, Berkeley-trashing, lauding of Reagan and the Reuglicans and most importantly to blythe proselytizing. (Praise the lord, Gus, I'll pass the admonition.) Hugs and kisses from Hollywood, where the weather never sucks. Fred -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Mike Connelley Subject: Re: Odd Navy Planes Howdy: All the talk about the F-111B reminded me of the C-130 that landed and took off from the Forrestal (I think). That (asside from the B-25) is probably the most unusual thing to ever fly from a carrier. Does anyone know if that was just a stunt or was the Navy actually considering operating the Herc from it's new large carriers? Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 03:52:24 EDT Subject: Re: 1990`s Vac-u-former >> I have just obtained the 1990's version of the Mattel Vac-u-former machine - not to be confused with the vintage and very pricy 1960's collector's version and would like to know if anyone has had any experienced in creating scratch molds for this gizmo. << !!! Where? How much? Still in production? Is it big enough to do 1:1200 sails? Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "Volker Haeusler" Subject: SMS Derfflinger at Skagerrak/Jutland >> I just purchased WSW 1/700 scale SMS Derfflinger ..what a wonderful little casting it is..They did a wonderful job on the hull and the white metal castings are nice too..A question though..they advertise this as the ship looked in 1916 ..Im asuming they mean battle of Jutland..looking at Bryers Battleships and Battlecruisers he shows her with a tripod mast forward and the casemates below the bridge for 8cm quick firing guns blanked off and portholes in there place as In Lutzow and later Hindenburg...The kit shows her as Bryer says she looked in 1913 when placed in commision with two pole masts and the casemates intact.. Who is right? anybody know? I will need more detailed Pictures to do this kit justice .. << Fortunately, there are a lot of pictures of the damaged Derfflinger after what we Germans call the Skagerrakschlacht and the rest of the world the battle of Jutland. Actually, looking on the text in Breyers book, the things become clearer: The main drawing show Derfflinger after repair and modification after Jutland. It was during this time that she aquired the tripod mast and got the casemates blanked over. In Marine-Arsenal 10: "Schlachtkreuzer der Kaiserlichen Marine (II): SMS Luetzow und Folgebauten" by the same Siegfired Breyer you can find around 25 photos of Derfflinger, including 7 directly after Jutland. Beside the impressive damage visible, they clearly show the original pole masts and the casemates below the bridge. Please note that these casemates were empty, the 8,8 cm guns never being mounted there. The book shppuld still be available from German retailers (ask C. Schmitt, whose webpage you can find on the Warship links page) Greetings from the middle of a real tropical thunderstorm in Malaysia Volker Haeusler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: "John Clements" Subject: Beatties Shops I thought Caroline's recent post about the Greenwich Maritime Modelling shop closing was bad news; the news that Beatties extensive chain of model shops is in difficulties could be disastrous for UK modellers who want to buy one tin of paint at a time when they need it, and support local shops as well as use mail order. What on earth is going on here? In my home town of Leeds, a big place even by US standards I would have thought, Beatties is the only serious model shop in the city and has always carried a good stock of plastic ships (including Heller which are quite difficult to find here). None of the shops in the surrounding towns, or here in Oxford, carry anywhere near the same range. Has there been a similar contraction in city centre model shops in the US? Are we all becoming coach potatoes? What a note to end the week on! John Clements -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: James Corley Subject: Re: USN mustangs and other such might have beens Edd Pflum sez: >> Then, of course, the was the naval F-16 that lost to the F-18, and the recent Navy F-117 proposal by LockMart. None of these progressed beyond the paper project stage, as far as I know. << Well, the F-117 was turned out by the Marietta ResinShop (or whatever they call it), as we have a guy from there bringing all sorts of resin tank products over to AAA Hobby looking for decals to put on the things! I really liked their CSA entry .... an S-3 fuselage with swept wings, DC-9 style engine mounts and canards! He was looking for VS markings for it. The F-117N (what he called it) apparently used A-6 markings. The first F-16N made it as far as the mockup stage. My uncle retired from LTV Dallas (spending most of his time building F-8s and A-7s) and was involved with the construction of the naval mockup of the F-16. He said they quit when the mockup (a real F-16) was finished since it weighed too much and they had not even installed the new nose gear (had to be made from scratch, the A-7 strut wouldn't fit!). The engineers, he said, figured it might be able to go supersonic, but not by much and it would have had a zero bring-back capability, and even then the strengthening they did might not be enough!!! Could you imagine the congressional squealing then, they gave the Hornet a bad enough time and it had better capabilities than LTV was projecting. The FO-1 was used by the Marines and was not fitted with a hook. The TV-1 & -2 were developed from the T-33 and did have hooks, although the TV-1 was rarely used for CarQuals since it wasn't very well suited for the job, which is why the TV-2 was a radical resdesign of the T-33. Name me any air force jet design that was adapted to successful USN use without a major redesign. I can name a dozen navy jets that the air force used (and only the B-66 was a major redesign, but not by basic need), but there isn't one that began life on land and made it to sea without big & expensive changes. Here is a list of USN>>USAF jets I can think of that might be confused by some(including foreign air forces): FJ-1>> F-86A & FJ-2 A3D>>B-66 F4H>>F-110A/F-4B A-7>>A-7D F-8E>>F-8P F-18>>F-18 The F-111 was an expensive joke, but it did pave the way for the Tomcat, since Grumman gained more experience with VG wings. The T-45 cost billions to adapt to CV use, and it took a lot longer than expected, due to cost overruns as well as unassociated budget shrink. The F-17 changed so much it got a new designation, the only feature kept was the general shape of the aircraft (to save flight test $$, IMO). The F-18 was such a better airplane that they could not sell the F-17L to foreign customers ... although the design strongly influenced the Taiwanese IDF. The navy has rejected the navalised F-22 in favor of the F-18E/F. The JSF design and cost is being driven by the USN/RN requirements, not the USAF version which will benefit from the naval version in having the same engine with less fuselage weight (and strength) giving it good STOL performance. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts The Deadline to pre-register for the SMML convention is April 1st 2000! If you want to attend, please contact us as soon as possible so that we can get a accurate head count. Also, for those who plan on coming to the convention from far away, the special rate on the Hotel expires on April 6th. Hotel arrangements can be found at: http://www.mikedunn.freeserve.co.uk/smml/help/smml_hotels.html The SMML convention date is May 5th and May 6th onboard the USS Salem (CA-139) Ship Museum. For more information, check out the SMML website at: http://www.mikedunn.freeserve.co.uk/smml/help/smml_con.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Victor Baca Subject: Scratch Building with Model Ship Journal I wrote recently about Model Ship Journal's on-going series about scratchbuilding. The model chosen will be a 1/192nd scale replica of the early short forecastle Flower Class corvette. She will be shown with the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN) overall gray paint scheme. The first installment, building an accurate master for making the fiberglass hull, will appear in Issue Zero of MSJ. We will then make a hull mold and discuss fiberglassing in the following issue. Decks, superstructure and detail fittings/armament appear in future concurrently running issues. The model will be built as the magazine progresses so you can get a feel for modeling in as close to "real-time" as a quarterly publication will allow. You'll be right there to share the ups and downs of scale ship modeling and end up with a fine little replica of the small ships that took on Hitler's best. The primary reference material will draw from the best Flower Class book written about these early ships, John McKay and John Harland's "The Flower Class Corvette Agassiz." This book was published by Vanwell Press as part of The Anatomy Of The Ship Series. ISBN # is 1-55068-084-6. The best feature of McKay and Harland's book is that little or no additional reference material is needed and you can build a good scale model right from its pages. We will also be using plans of the early short forecastle ships provided by the Canadian National Archives. There are still subscriptions available beginning with Model Ship Journal's Issue Zero (you get Issue Zero through Issue 3). This premier issue will pack a lot of interesting goodies for modelers within its pages. Subscription rates are $30.00 per year in the U.S. and $45.00 per year outside U.S. Payment can be MC/Visa, personal check or money order. I hope you'll come aboard Victor Baca MODEL SHIP JOURNAL P.O. Box 28516 Bellingham, WA 98228-0516 toll-free (877) 371-0290. Outside U.S.use area code 360 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume