Subject: SMML VOL 879 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 01:22:38 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: C-17s and Belknaps 2: Russian kits 3: U-571 movie 4: Re: Enterprise decals 5: Re: Enterprise Decals 6: Re: Big Planes landing on carriers 7: Queen Mary II 8: CVN65 Tamiya 9: russian instructions 10: Rusty White's idea of where the USS Kidd is! 11: Re: New Orleans 12: A Rex in 1/100 scale 13: Re: USS Patterson DD392 14: Re: Thank-you 15: Glass cases 16: battleship bismarck web sites 17: Model Shipways RN Paint Question 18: Impact cement 19: H.P. Models 20: Re: Space Cruiser Yamato 21: H.M.S. Courageous - Battlecruiser 22: Re: C-17 on LHD 23: Re: Revell Kit for Midway Class USS FDR 24: white marks and other things 25: Re: Star Blazers Question... 26: Re: USN mustangs and other such might have beens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: C-17s and Belknaps I checked out the C-17 pic; I'll have to be convinced it's legit; the photo "loooks" retouched (to be charitable). More seriously, the USSS Wainwright Veterans Association has asked me to supply a page for their website concerning modelling the Belknap class DLG/CGs. I've caught wiffs of rumors that this or tha manufacturer is thinking of investigating the possibility of considering doing a Belknap. Can any SMMLie substantiate the rumors or at least confirm the fact that the rumors are out there? I know there has been a plastic Leahy kit: I think there's been a resin one, too. Why the Belknaps have been neglected is beyond my ken. For those who may bee interested (or manufacturers who're thinking along these lines), USS Sterett has been saved and will become a museum on the West Coast. That means at least one Belknap is around to actually meausure, photograph, etc. (If anyone wants contacts to either group, let me know.) I'll bet the obligatory museum gift shop would like a few kits to sell. . . . Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "James M. Pasquill, II" Subject: Russian kits From: Loren Perry >> Both kits are very buildable and are of typical Heller quality in both molding and level of detail. The Russian language instructions are the main challenge, especially regarding the color schemes. << It appears that there are a few of us on the list that read Russian. I am not going to offer to translate the whole set of instructions but if you want to post a scan of the color schemes to me or to a site somewhere I can at least translate that for you. Jim P. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Percy, John" Subject: U-571 movie I saw a commercial about a new movie about the Uboat U-571. It looked REALLY good. It opens April 21. It stars Matthew McConaughy, Bill Paxton, Harvey Keitel, and can you believe it, Jon Bon Jovi (yes, you read that right). Check its webpage: www.u-571.com John Percy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Enterprise decals >> A few days ago Duane Fowler posted here that he was nearly finished with a set of decals for the 1/350 Tamiya Enterprise, CVN-65. Any further news? Any info on what exactly is included? Considering Duane's reputation, this could be a great sheet. What an incredible help it would be!! << The decals are available through Toms Modelworks and will be reviewed in an upcoming issue of the IPMS/USA Journal Ships and Tips column. They are very nice and worth the money. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Re: Enterprise Decals Hello Michael, Concerning the Enterprise Decal set: It should be available shortly from Toms Modelworks. I have been out of town (in Taiwan and Japan) for the last two weeks and have just returned. I will be printing every evening for the rest of this week so they should be available by the end of this week or early next week. The price will be $10 I believe. The set contains: anti-aircraft missile and gun warning circles, deck elevators and munitions hatches warning stripes, red and white deck stripes, white deck arrow, "65" deck number in both solid white and outline, elevator edge markings, "Big E" and "USS ENTERPRISE CVN 65" white island markings, correct island warning signs, award letters and scoreboard, pilots wings and anchors, brass commissioning plaque, and "Hormuz Highway Patrol" banner for elevator #3. Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Re: Big Planes landing on carriers >> The first shot is legit. The second of the c-17 is doctored. Working in graphic design and photoshop for awhile one can tell the obvious distortion. Now that's an April Fools joke... << Photo interpretation is really interesting. Would anyone elaborate further on information that can be gleaned from the photos? From what I can make out: The shadow thrown by the wing of the C-17 doesn't match that with the deck crewman and the thick cloud under the plane does seem inconsistent with a deck landing. Where would that stuff come from? As for the C-130 the stb wing does seem dangerously close to the island. One would presume that the plane had been towed to that position after landing. Was the plane able to land without arrester wire assist? I can't make out any wires on that deck just the wear marks. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "graham" Subject: Queen Mary II Yes its being built in France, Harland and Wolff lost the contract putting the firm of ship builders in jeopardy of going to the wall, I have heard rumors that the UK Gov is thinking of bringing one of the new carriers forward to give them some work. graham -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: BEN8800@aol.com Subject: CVN65 Tamiya Although I am building the Enterprise kit, just got the Detail and Scale books from Squadron (at great discounts) for the America, Forrestal, and Kennedy carriers. With the Enterprise book out of print, these books are fabulous. They are far superior to the Enterprise book. Many more details and lots of color shots. Since the details are similiar on all the carriers, these books are a must have for building the Enterprise kit. Get em while they last. I paid about $20 for the 3 books. Ben -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Shirley Sachsen Subject: russian instructions with all the talk regarding the Russian icebreaker model and the issues with being able to read the instructions, a chum turned me on to a site that may be of use to all of you with instructions in languages you can't read: http://world.altavista.com/ you can paste in text you want translated, and it'll spit it out in the language you choose. Pretty slick. s -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Lamar Jones Subject: Rusty White's idea of where the USS Kidd is! Rusty is a bit off in his description of where to find the USS Kidd. It's not at the Louisiana-Texas border, nor is the Mississippi River there. Drive on for about 3 more hours to the east and then the Mississippi River will appear. Once on the bridge stay in the right hand lane and follow the signs to the Kidd. Easy to do! And you'll be about 135 miles or so east of the Texas-Louisiana border. Rusty is from Oklahoma where geographic information largely pertains to "Where is Texas?" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Lamar Jones Subject: Re: New Orleans New Orleans has a lot to offer, even though the hobby shops may be lack luster. For one, get a sandwich, a glass of something, or a cup of something, and sit on the levee, known as the Moonwalk, between Canal Street and Jackson Square and watch the maritime traffic. There's a lot of it and it's fascinating since upstream traffic is first viewed port side to and then the bend in the Mississippi gives a full starboard perspective. The opposite, of course, applies to downstream, or Gulf bound vessels. Take a ride on the steamer Natchez. Paddlewheelers are interesting and especially the Natchez. Ride the free ferry from the foot of Canal Street to Algiers (Louisiana) on the west bank. You can get a good view of the river and some of the city. The ferry is dirty and smelly, but it is free. Ride the street car out St. Charles Avenue to Audubon Park and Zoo and walk around a bit. The levee is behind the zoo and you can climb it and see more vessel traffic. Food is very good! Then come on to Baton Rouge, where the USS Kidd is located. And don't feel sorry for New Orleans because it lost the Cabot. The Cabot was a full scaled mess, only capable of being repaired at substantial cost. We vastly over rate WWII historical vessels. Industrial archaeology is a very expensive sport and besides the Cabot isn't representative of New Orleans. A restored merchant vessel or tanker would be more so! Too, New Orleans is a very poor city! Maybe it should be identified as the northern most city of the Caribbean, nor a southern US city. But it can be a fun place! Enjoy it! Most Brits do! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "F J Hueso" Subject: A Rex in 1/100 scale To Darren Scannell: Model Shipwright published in number 78 an article by Maurizio Eliseo about an RC model of Rex precisely in 1/100 scale. He states his sources as Bremerhaven Naval Museum, Steamship Historical Society of America, Associazione Navimodelliste Bolognesi, and Ansaldo Historical Department. May Model Shipwright staff,via http://www.conwaymaritime.com/ could be of help. Otherwise, the model is an outstanding one, featuring light, sounds, smoke, about 260 figures and hand made furniture! Regards Javier -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: USS Patterson DD392 USS Petterson was painted in MS 32/2c during 1944. For a description of MS 32, check-out: http://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_32.htm John Sheridan www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: Thank-you >> I would like to thank Shane Jenkins, Keith Butterley (who told Shane about my success) and all of you who have dropped me a note of congratulations. << Felix, You are bringing that model with you to the SMML'con aren't you ?!?!? John Sheridan www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Glass cases Hi Guys I have found something to help preserve my models and I thought I'd share it with you. There is available from companies like Imex,Revell-Monogram,and Amt-Erlt plastic cases. Generally they are 1/24 or 25th scale and are excellent for 1/700 ships such as cruisers and destroyers. Now take a 1/700 Fletcher, Gearing,Sumner,Adams, Knox, Krivak I & II, Sovermenny, Perry, Bogue CVE, LST's, will fit nicely into the Amt-Erlt 1/24 and 1/25 cases. These were originally designed for the car modeler in mind. What I like about it is that protects the completed model from dust. You can go away for months and not dust it and then clean it your model is fine. As long as the model isn't exposed to direct sunlight to effect the paint or decals it will look pristine as the day of completion. There are other cases to use take Revell 's it's taller than the Amt-Erlt which would be good for a ship like a Ticonderoga class cruiser. These cruisers or or the Spruance class destroyers wouldn't fit in the Amt-Erlt in fact they can't be put in straight on the Revell they have to be put in on angles that the bow doesn't prevent the lid from going on. Revell calls there's Collectors show case and Amt-Erlt calls there's Display case. Also available is from Imex are large display cases such as the Auto display case it can put into 1/35 AFV,1/48th or 1/72 aircraft, and 1/18th -1/24 scale cars. For a 1/700 scale shipbuilder it's ideal for diaromas. I've done two far with it 1.)WW2 US shipyard scene with dry docks,cranes,buildings and ships. It looked great but unfortunately it had accident what made repairs difficult was the fact that I had glued it shut. Also the bottom should been have raised up because the dry-docks after having put in their cut holes were 1/8 of a inch to tall causing to eventually come loose. So if you try this don't glue down the lids to them. The Revell Collector show cases are 9 1/8 long,3 7/8 high, and 3 5/8 wide The Amt-Erlt display cases are the same except 1 inch shorter. The Imex case is 12.44 by10.87 by 5.32 inches. In price the Revell and Amt-Erlt runs for 7-10 dollars (US) and the Imex kit comes at about 12-18 dollars (US) they also come in either clear bottom or black. Some of the big carriers such as Lexington, Essex classes will have trouble fitting into the Imex case. Well, I hope this is of help. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "JODY KELM" Subject: battleship bismarck web sites Beside the obvious websites are there any other site that I could pursue? sincerely, Chris Kelm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Frank Allen Subject: Model Shipways RN Paint Question I recently purchased a number of Model Shipways Royal Navy paints. As is my luck, I'm having less than spectacular results airbrushing the stuff...probably the result of improper mixing/air pressure. Have any of you used these paints successfully? If so, what did you use to thin it with /what ratio? Also curious as to what psi it took to go on smoothly. I'd really like to use these as they are appear to be very accurate. Thanks Frank Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Denis & Marilyn Campbell Subject: Impact cement >> In the SMML modeling tips page is an excellent paper by a fellow named Chris Drage. In it he talks about installing PE railings using an adhesive he describes as "impact adhesive". Never heard of the stuff . . . can someone give me examples of manufacturers and/or product names I might look for in a California model store? << First of all, Chris Drage is fairly famous for his amazing naval dioramas - pick up almost any copy of Plastic Ship Modeler and you are almost certain to see pictures of one of his dioramas. As Chris lives and works in U.K. I guess 'impact cement' is a British term but,from his description - applying to the deck and to the bottom of the railing, letting both dry then placing the railing for a permanent bond - it sounds like what we call 'contact cement' in USA. Better be very sure you get the placement right the first time, because once they touch, you won't move that rail again. Not even the smallest adjustment. Acrylic (water) based contact cement is available at hardware stores and places like Home Depot Denis Campbell Avon MA Hi Denis, Chris's latest work can also be found on the White Ensign site as well in PSM. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Jana & Pavel" Subject: H.P. Models Dear SMMLies, I would appreciate anyone who has bought a 1/700 H.P. Model to give me a idea of the quality of the models. I have been in contact with NNT Model & Buch in Germany and they seem to stock them. As I have never seen one, I am hesitant to order until I have a clear idea of what I will be getting. The main item I wish to order is the Russian "Kirov" Battlecruiser. Thank you all in advance Regards Pavel VACATA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Robert Vancel Subject: Re: Space Cruiser Yamato >> Oh! One question for you - what primary hull colour do you suggest using for the original/classic Space Cruiser Yamato/Argo? It appears a bit blue to me on my tapes. << Well, according to what info I have, it IS a bit blue. The model I scratchbuilt a few years back was painted dark blue and hull red. I think this made it look more 'real'. Just don't use Petty Blue.... Robert "Hollywood" Vancel/nWMo Al Team # 78 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Jana & Pavel" Subject: H.M.S. Courageous - Battlecruiser Dear Fellow Modelers I am trying to add to my fleet in 1/700 the "Light Battlecruiser" H.M.S. Courageous in the as built configuration ( 1918 - before conversion to an aircraft carrier). I am having some difficulty in obtaining plans suitable for scratch building in the 1/700 scale. Is there anyone who could help me? I do not mind if the plans are for H.M.S. Glorious. Should any one wish to contact me off list, my e-mail is: mailto:paveljana@cableregina.com Many thanks in advance Regards Pavel VACATA Battleship & Battlecruiser Nut! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Re: C-17 on LHD A Navy buddy of mine has that picture on his computer as a screen saver. You can tell it is a fake because the shadows on the plane are in a different direction than those of the crew, etc. Also, the origin of the photo of the plane is a rocket assisted take-off. It was cut and pasted to the flight deck. Roger Clemens Hinsdale, Illinois -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Re: Revell Kit for Midway Class USS FDR On one of my regular tours through a local hobby shop, I saw a lonely kit that has been on the shelf for years. Revell Kit # 0307: Midway Class Carrier USS Franklin D. Roosevelt. The cover art shows a straight wooden deck and a mix of jet and propeller aircraft. What scale is it? How old is it? I don't build carriers. He wants $16.50 for it. Is this a rare kit? Should I buy it? Maybe one of you would want it. Roger Clemens Hinsdale, Illinois -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Bruce D. Wright" Subject: white marks and other things Hi Guy's: To Craig Bennett: I have the Squadron book you refer to. I use it for photo's and didn't really review the text (sorry there). Whoever, either they are on crack or it was a typo - I vote the second. Several classes of DE's only had 6k hp and did 20 knots on a 300 foot hull. Butler may have had 12k hp but only did 24 knots (or less). Scaling factors would demand 30-40k hp to begin to approach 30 knots on the same hull. Typo there. To Quinn in Seattle: I live in Lacey - same problems as you but have only lost one book so far and it was on German armor. If you ever want a joint expedition to Powell's in Portland, please email me. To Jowfx: Trial speed is the speed is the speed that ship made on a measured run to fulfill contract requirements and be paid accordingly. Trial runs are usually done without armament, full crew, stores and so forth. As a result, the ship can pass contract requirements easier. I have never seen a "top speed" listing in most official documents. The listings I have seen do portray speeds a ship will make underway in a fully loaded condition. Usually they are 1-5 knots below the trial value depending on the class. Like the term "standard displacement", "top speed" is almost an oxymoron. White Marks on Yamato: I have only a brief time to look over comments on the white decks of this ship. There was some comment on these being a navigational aid. I don't think so. If you look at Skulski's book, figure C15/8, these marks are every 10 meters for the ships length. Navigational marks would be laid out in degrees (every 5 for instance) so the spacing would not be linear. Use a protractor to check this. I believe these markers are here for damage reporting/control. The only other reason for a linear measurement report would be for crew musters. As crew musters can be taken anywhere, I don't really think that this is the reason. By the way, while Skulski is good, excellent in fact, he did make a mistake in his "Fuso" book. In the chronology of the ship for 19 October 1943 to 23 October 1943 the ship was at Eniwetok (Brown's Atoll), not Borneo. That's it; gotta go into the hot-tub. Goodnight all -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Star Blazers Question... Frank... Unfortunately, there's not a set of EDF paint chips available that I can refer to for this. The color of the ship varied a great deal from show to show, because it depended on what color paint the animators had available when they were doing the cells. Occassionally, the upper half of the ship appeared to be medium or dark gray. Like you said though, the most common color was blue. My only suggestion here goes back to an experiment I did back in '88 when I pulled out a tin of Humbrol "RAF Blue" to paint the upper works of a small box-scale kit of the Argo. Now don't ask me why I chose a British Air Force color for a Japanese Space Battleship (it was sitting there in my paint box, okay). However, a couple of friends (and fellow fans) made the comment that it looked "pretty damn close." I have no idea if the formula for that paint has changed or not in the last 12 years. It probably has, but IIRC it was sort of a medium blue gray. Another possibility would be the "Catac Gray" (???) used on the upper fuselages of French Armee de l'Air Mirage F-1's. Hope this helps... Fly Navy! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: eddp Subject: Re: USN mustangs and other such might have beens One of the FO-1's (P-80's) was fitted with carrier equipment and used for trials. The P-39's were used as drones, initially, and one was later fitted with swept-wings for low-speed aerodynamic trials. The P-61 Black Widows were used to train F7F radar operators. The B-66 was the result of the Air Force asking for an "A-3D with maybe one little change..." The F-14 was the result of the failed F-111 interceptor project, and was later offered to the Air Force to replace the F-106 when these were withdrawn from service (the Air Force chose the F-15 instead, go figure ). The F-15 was offered to the Navy to replace the aging F-14A's (but the Navy chose the up-engined F-14D, go figure ). Earlier, the Air Force was offered an interceptor version of the A-3 Vigilante! The Northrop F-17 was an outgrowth of their P-530 Light Fighter project. When the government mandated the Navy choose one of the Air Force's Lightweight Fighter contenders (F-16, F-17), Northrop teamed with McDonnell-Douglas (the long-time Navy contractor). MDD was to have sales responsibility for the resulting F-18, but Northrop was to market the F-18L, a dedicated land-based version. The F-18L had less equipment and a lighter landing gear, and therefore better performance than the F-18, however MDD out-marketed Northrop, and the F-18L was never built (BAE had a similar experience with MDD and the Harrier). The design constraints are obviously much stricter for a carrier airplane then a land-based one. Carrier aircraft can always operate from a runway, but seldom vice-versa, although the mentioned C-130 comes to mind. I believe these were intended for "Operation Deepfreeze" missions in Antartica, but were never flown. U-2's also performed trials on carriers, and may well have flown "black" operational missions from carriers. I also have a picture of Army L-4's (Piper Cubs) flying off from an LST "Carrier" in the Pacific in WW2. Edd Pflum -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts SMML Convention and tour notices: http://www.mikedunn.freeserve.co.uk/smml/help/smml_con.html If your coming to the SMML convention on friday, we need to know which tour you planning to attend so that we can get an accurate head count for transportation. Contact John Frohock ca139johnf@aol.com and let him know which tour you plan on attending. If you are going on a tour, you need to be onboard the USS Salem no later than 10:00am on Friday May 5th. We will open the ship starting at 9:00am for those who would like a cup of coffee and some schoozing before departure. For those of you who are not going on either tour; the USS Salem will NOT be open to the public on friday (Crew will be on watch to repel boarders if provoked ) so please do not show-up at the ship on friday unless you are attending the tours. Check out Convention and tour info at: http://www.mikedunn.freeserve.co.uk/smml/help/smml_con.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume