Subject: SMML VOL 898 Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 23:46:05 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: BWN web site answer from Mike Bishop 2: S-Boat Plans 3: Re: correction -- SS United States colors 4: War memorials 5: S-Boot (Schnellboot) 6: USS Arizona Memorial 7: Re: PT-109/River Class Frigates/AA Gun Color 8: No Brag, Just Fact 9: Re: SS United States 10: Re: HMAS Canberra 11: Spectacular Color/Colour Alive! 12: HMAS Canberra 13: USN tugs 14: HMS Hood Model 15: Review of CW 1/700 Wichita 16: Re: River Class Frigates 17: Re: HMAS CANBERRA 18: Re: USS Arizona 19: Re: Ms. 22 Camouflage Question 20: geographically embarrassed 21: German destroyers "Z" armament 22: USS Alaska (CB-1) on US Naval Historical Center's photo site 23: HR products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts 1: Re: T Shirts/meeting -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: WEM Back In Action! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: BWN web site answer from Mike Bishop Dear list, I received this answer from Mike Bishop about his web site. This is a direct quote from him. "Rusty, I have never had a web site. The fellow from Navis did that on his own trying to sell kits. I will not have a site till the end of the year. My kit are sold thru Model Expo. WWW.Modelexpoinc.com I'm doing an Ohio class SSBN and a Porter class DD that will be released in May and June. Thanks, Mike" I just wanted to pass on the answer from the horses mouth so to speak. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: S-Boat Plans I had a look at the S-Boat on the 32nd Parallel website. Looks like a nice big kit. But again, as far as details go, the designer seems to have been working from the basic general arangement plans and has not included correct cockpit and gun tub details. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Jodie Peeler Subject: Re: correction -- SS United States colors hello all.... Keith Bender wrote: >> SS United States stack, decks. Her fwd. stack is mounted on a small superstructure and it has white decks due to this area not being a normal walking area. The aft stack at the fwd end rest on a green deck. As you move aft it has a raised superstructure and that deck is painted white. << Yeah, on a second look I agree. My best sources on all this are in black-and-white and/or loaned out, and the color shots I have are the old tinted ones like you'll find in "Life" and "National Geographic," so they're not really helpful. Now that I've looked again I would go with white for the superstructures the funnels rest on. My bad. I hope nobody was steered wrong by this. OTOH, what about the other working areas (i.e. that section aft of the bridge, the top of the house that's between the forward kingposts, etc.) that are a different color than the Neotex? I can't tell from my photos if that's white or a really light shade of gray. I'd like to settle this for when I finally do get back to work on accurizing the Revell kit in...oh, about another 20 years or so. Sorry again for the slip-up, folks. Hope nobody was injured.... jodie http://www.mindspring.com/~raisingirl/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: War memorials >> Isn't it possible that we love, honor and cherish both types of tribute to our veterans? << Given the fact that the USS Cabot is at the scrap yard and (barring a last second miracle) due to be chopped apart any day now, the answer seems to be "not really". This is like paving over a few more acres of Gettysburg and putting up another Dairy Queen on it. A statue is a nice symbol, but just not the same experience as "being where it happened". Creating a national memorial for WWII veterans is 55 years late anyway. Combined with all the public whining about tax money spent to pay out social security benefits, and the fact that so many veterans are already dead or in no condition to travel to see their monument, it even seems a bit hypocritical. I'm not against the memorial, I'm just against spending a few million bucks on more public art when a genuine national treasure from WWII is set to be scrapped due to "lack of funds". Makes me sick. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: URUDOFSKY@aol.com Subject: S-Boot (Schnellboot) I cannot answer the question, if there is a WWII Schnellboot still afloat. However, the one referred to at the Bremerhaven ship museum is a vintage 1959 Deutsche Bundesmarine S-Boot Schnellboot Kranich: http://www.nord-com.net/w.h.kernchen/kranich.htm Ulrich Rudofsky -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Joel Labow Subject: USS Arizona Memorial Last time I was there (1987) there was a wonderful diorama of the Arizona as she now rests on the harbor bottom. It was made by Bob Sumrall et. al. and used (I believe) the Warship Hulls 1/96 hull as a starting point. I haven't seen it mentioned in any of the postings.....please don't tell me that it's been removed! It was (and hopefully still is!) one of the nicest examples of the ship modeller's art that I have ever seen. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: PT-109/River Class Frigates/AA Gun Color PT-109: regarding the suggestion to paint the guns silver and then rub a pencil over them, Floquil makes "Gunmetal" as one of their railroad colors. Try that instead. River Class Frigates: EUGENE was indeed named for the Oregon city. The Eugene Public Library has a very nice photo of her on display (and my memory tells me the ship's bell is there too, but I may be confusing that with Carson City, NV). AA Gun Colors: The shields of the 20mm and 40mm mounts would have been painted the same color as adjoining vertical surfaces. The top half of the 40mm barrels would likely have been painted Deck Blue 20-B. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Marc Flake Subject: No Brag, Just Fact Doc; Congratulations!! It's always great to get recognized for outstanding work. I didn't start submitting models to contests until about two years ago. I have found that I have now become a lot more particular about how I finish my kits. It's made me a better modeler. Or, at least, it has contributed to the onset of AMS (Advanced Modelers Syndrome). Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: EBENCARL89@aol.com Subject: Re: SS United States THANKS VERY MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELP on the deck colors of the S.S. United States . It really helped me, Thanks again, Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: HMAS Canberra For pic's on the Canberra, try the on line search thru the Australian War Memorial, @ www.awm.gov.au and see if you can purchase photo's, or just look at the ones posted. Hope this helps. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "MJW" Subject: Spectacular Color/Colour Alive! Fellow SMML colleagues.... This is a paint by number exercise! Please could you help me out and identify some colors for me in the photographs on the SMML website. Our webmaster has kindly allowed me to post the pictures in anticipation of this question (thank you) - I acknowledge that copyright on the pictures is NOT mine, I post them as an item of research and beg your indulgence..... K240, HMCS Vancouver was stationed on the WEST coast of North America until 1944, and hence I am unsure of what colour scheme she wore - also you will note that her paint scheme changed quite frequently! So then, A-xyz Grey, B-abc blue/green, C- same as A etc.. etc..- I thank you all in advance. First picture (K240underway.gif) http://www.mikedunn.freeserve.co.uk/smml/Pics/k240underway.gif A - Bow of Hull B - Diagonal stripe under "K" C - Dark colour on hull below life boat D - Even Darker colour on Hull below band stand E - Light Colour on hull at stern F - Top third of smoke stack G - Bottom corner of gunshield Second picture (k240overhead.gif) http://www.mikedunn.freeserve.co.uk/smml/Pics/k240overhead.gif M - Very light/white colour on deck under spare depth charge rails at stern N - Dark patch immediately forward of this on deck - is this wood? (ex Crewmember swears their was no wood anywhere on this ship!) O - deck of focsle around anchor winch, as opposed to the rest of the deck (colour of rest of deck?) Third picture (the clearest I have K240docked.gif) http://www.mikedunn.freeserve.co.uk/smml/Pics/k240docked.gif By the way, I have seen a picture of Moncton (?), Vancouver's west coast sister ship and she had the absolutely identical paint pattern on the port side - I am going to do Vancouver in the same way - would I be wrong? S - light hull below bandstand (dark in picture one above!) T - Dark Hull stern U - superstructure of bridge V - superstructure of engine room casing and bandstand Finally, the colour of the pennant itself - what colour was the K240 (black around white?) Thanking you! regards Malcolm Wheeler Vancouver, BC P.S. A whole email and not one mention of Angiosperm ships - pretty impressive eh! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: HMAS Canberra Hi Alan Briefly Canberra's 4 inch guns were twins, located where her singles used to be. I think she carried 6 20mm 2 each on B and X turrets and 2 replacing her 0.5 machine guns just behind the bridge. Pom-pom locations are more difficult (she did carry them) but I would place them adjacent to the mainmast. The Australian War Memorial does have photos of some of her Oerlikons and her twin 4 inches but rather unsportingly doesn't have electronic images of them on line. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: USN tugs Hi Guys I remember hearing about this 4 months ago. Supposedly in January the USN discontinued using it's own harbor tugs and went to contract operations for them. My question did they decide to dispose of them all or did they just transfer them to the private companies who got the contract. Is this story even true? Any one hear anything. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Mike Connelley Subject: HMS Hood Model Howdy: I presume that your 1/400 Hood is something of a dog. If it weren't for the cost I'd have one of the nice resin 1/350 Hood kits myself. If you're willing to wait a few months, ICM is supposed to be releasing a 1/350 Hood in injection plastic. I don't know what the cost is going to be but I'd guess on the order of $100. I haven't seen thier Konig kit yet but having seen some of thier aircraft kits, the Hood ought to be a winner. And given that the Hood will be in more standard 1/350 scale, there's plenty of brass to detail you model. Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Loren Perry Subject: Review of CW 1/700 Wichita The 1/700 Classic Warships kit of the heavy cruiser USS Wichita arrived here a few days ago and it's a beauty. The kit's contents are packaged in four sealed plastic bags inside a stout cardboard box. Also furnished are a 12-page instruction booklet (the inside covers are blank) and a three-color decal sheet with hull numbers in white, two US ensigns, and two US jacks. Molded in light gray resin with many small fittings in white metal, the model is almost flawlessly cast with little or no flash and not one air bubble or void to be seen with the exception of one set of mooring bitts not fully defined. Other than this, the rest of the kit equals or surpasses the finest injection molding now available. The hull includes integral 01 levels, three main turret barbettes, numerous gun tubs, catapult foundations, a beautifully engraved planked main deck, and the aircraft hangar cover which is molded closed. Anchor chains, capstans, and countless deck fittings are perfectly rendered, and the bulkheads features excellent surface detailing including watertight doors, portholes, and vents. The hull's bottom is perfectly flat with no overpour at all. A close inspection reveals an absolutely symmetrical bow and stern, nicely formed armor belts, well defined anchor hawsepipe lips, and neatly executed portholes. The remaining resin parts are molded on a sheet of thin resin film that easily breaks away from the parts. Included are five superstructure components, two funnels (with excellent internal baffles and external steam pipes), three main turrets, five gun tubs, and three small platforms. Once again, the casting quality is outstanding with no flaws or voids visible anywhere. The master patterns had to be superb due to the wealth of detail including beautifully shaped vents and cable reels, all molded in place. The gun tubs and bulwarks are fairly thin and look good. A small bag contains scores of excellent white metal detail castings. Some of these are authorized copies of standard Pit-Road/Skywave fittings while others are original items exclusive to Classic Warships. The latter include nicely detailed SOC Seagull catapult aircraft, the two aircraft catapults, the 5" 38 cal. single mounts, and the stern crane. Other items furnished include ship's boats, rafts, radar, gun mounts with separate barrels, gun directors, and propeller guards, among other things. No photoetched fittings are provided nor are rods or wire for fabricating masts, a common characteristic of CW kits. And although no 20mm guns are provided, their cone-shaped pedestals are molded on the decks and in gun tubs. Classic's instructions specify the use of Gold Medal Models 20mm Oerlikon set (GMM No. 700-21) and instruct the user to cut the etched base from the guns and then glue the guns themselves (with armor shields) to the resin pedestals which should provide an excellent effect. Classic also specifies the GMM 1/700 WW2 USN Cruiser/Destroyer set (GMM No. 700-8) for those wishing to add rails and ladders plus more detailed radars, catapults, and cranes. The instruction booklet contains well detailed and clearly drawn assembly sketches that explain how every part assembles to the whole. These sketches are similar to a Skywave kit's instructions. Also found here are a parts list, basic assembly tips, and painting methods as they apply to resin kits. Plans are also provided for fabricating the masts from rod and wire (not supplied.) How would I improve this kit if it were up to me? I might include mast material and some 20mm gun castings for those wishing to build strictly out of the box. And a short history of the ship and a bit more color scheme information would have been a plus. The two blank pages previously mentioned could have been used for this. But other than these little "nigglies", I can't find much to fault with CW's beautiful new cruiser kit. This is definitely one of the finest 1/700 resin ship kits now available from any maker. Very highly recommended. Loren Perry/GMM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Jeffon10@cs.com Subject: Re: River Class Frigates For Les Pickstock According to the "Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships": EUGENE was named after Eugene, Oregon, and served off New Guinea. BEAUFORT was named after Beaufort, South Carolina, and served on Atlantic weather patrol. LORAIN was named after Lorain, Ohio, and served on Atlantic weather patrol. SANDUSKY was named after Sandusky (river) Ohio, and served in Philippines and postwar in Japanese Self Defense Forces. I cann't confirm, but I believe I saw a website showing a 1/350th TACOMA Class resin kit forthcoming from Commander's series. Of course, Strombecker put out a wooden kit in 1949; happily in 1/350th, of which I have an example. Regards, Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Jeffon10@cs.com Subject: Re: HMAS CANBERRA For Alan Lindstrom, I have a portside photo of CANBERRA circa August 42, US National Archives 80-G-231897. "British Cruisers of World War Two" by Alan Raven and John Roberts says by early 1941 four single pom-poms and four single 4" were removed and that two 8-barrelled pom-poms and at least 5 20-mm were fitted. From the photo, I'd say clearly there are no twin 4" guns. One can make out a single 20 mm aft of the bridge at the 01 level and one on the little deckedge deck house between funnels 1 and 2. There are 20 mm sized shielded tubs on B and X turret. I'd also guess that each single 4" was replaced with a single 20 mm. There's a rat's nest, I cann't make out, at the deck edge just aft of the after mast which may be a pom-pom. So, my assessment is 10 20-mm: one each atop B and X turret, one each replacing the four single 4", one on either side of the bridge and one on either deckhouse between funnels 1 and 2. Possibly an 8-barrelled pom-pom on each side at the deck edge just aft of the boats and after mast. Regards, Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Arizona Hi SMML, There is a hatch from the Arizona on display at the Admiral Nimitz Museum in Fredericksburg, Texas, and the last time I was at the Museum there was also a very impressive Fine Arts model of the Arizona. Not to mention a very large scale model of the CVN Nimitz! Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Ms. 22 Camouflage Question Hi SMML, I was looking at the Classic Warships' book on the Omaha class cruisers, and I couldn't help but notice the very interesting photograph of the Memphis on page 54 The caption states that she is in Ms. 22, but points out that the dark band runs parallel to the sheer instead of to the horizon. The same appears to be true to a lesser degree in the photographs of the Concord on page 38, but there are other photographs (such as the Detroit on page 28) where the dark panel does parallel the horizon. My understanding of Ms. 22 is that the dark band (Navy Blue 5-N) was ALWAYS supposed to run parallel to the horizon, so what gives here? Does anyone know of other examples of Ms. 22 where the dark panel parallels the sheer? If, on the other hand, these are really examples of the late-war version of Ms. 12 (with Navy Gray and Ocean Gray on the hull) and not Ms. 22 at all, did the late-war Ms. 12 call for the dark panel to parallel the sheer, as the earlier (1941) Ms. 12 did? Enquiring minds want to know.... Thanks, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Stuart Robottom Subject: geographically embarrassed Greetings all. It appears that my last post may have been slightly inaccurate in its description of Norwich's location. However, rest assured that the Sea Cadet training ship Lord Nelson is different to the sail training ship of the same name. The one I was on (SCC Training ship) is a former lightship, stationed in the river at Norwich, right next to the train station. I am trying to convert the Revell lightship to a model of her, but this is a very slow process, and I am relying on memory, which is probably not such a good idea bearing in mind the next paragraph. I can't explain the error regarding Norwich's location. It can't be the rain -- we've had about 50mm over the last 3-5 years, the dam's empty and the tanks aren't far behind. I bow to your superior geographical knowledge, Mike, and conclude this reply suitably chastened!!! Regards, Stuart Robottom http://www.deakin.edu.au/~robottom/ I would offer photos of HMAS Brisbane to the assemblage, but it was a windy day and as I removed the roll of film on the pier it blew out of my hands into the bay... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Shane Weier Subject: German destroyers "Z" armament Hi all, I'm new here so maybe I asked the wrong way, or asked the wrong question last week so I'll try again. Please forgive a primarily aircraft modeller for what may be howlers regarding nautical naming convention ! I'm about to start building a Heller Z-31 and want to do more than just glue it together. Since it seems that references - even single photos - for these things are almost as hard to find as real ones I thought I'd ask a few generic questions 1 The main armament turrets are presented as fully enclosed. I thought they had open backs but the one pic I've seen shows the front view. Fully enclosed or not? 2 The main armament turrets have a largish rectangular box across the entire roof which may be inteneded to look like a rangefinder housing or something. My one photo doesn't show anything on the roof at all. Should it be there or not? Are there other photos? Where do I look. 3 The AAA are supposedly navalised quad 20mm and single 37mm. I have a photo of the quad 20mm on a capital ship - it looks like the Wehrmacht gun with no shields at all. Is this a fair description? Should the Z ships have shields or no? Are there any photos of such an installation? Where do I look? 4 The torpedo tubes are pretty basic. Maybe the KM ships had tubes that simple. Is this so? Are there photos showing an installation, preferably on one of these ships. One other question (with maybe a supplementary) I asked if the WEM 1:400 generic German brass would be of any use building this kit and had no answers. I hope it wasn't to avoid offending the Carters, so I ask it again. Thanks Shane the older, tyro shipmodeller. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Ed Grune Subject: USS Alaska (CB-1) on US Naval Historical Center's photo site Good Monday Morning (if any Monday morning can be good) This week's addition on the US Naval Historical Center's photo section is a series of pictures on the USS Alaska (CB-1). There are also some color pictures taken of her from the Missouri during the Alaska's shakedown cruise. http://history.navy.mil/photos/whatsnew.htm In addition to the Alaska ther is a selection on the USS Independence (CVL-22). Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: HR products Shane Can you send me the website for HR products? Thank you, Joh - Seattle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts SMML Convention and tour notices: http://www.mikedunn.freeserve.co.uk/smml/help/smml_con.html If your coming to the SMML convention on friday, we need to know which tour you planning to attend so that we can get an accurate head count for transportation. Contact John Frohock ca139johnf@aol.com and let him know which tour you plan on attending. If you are going on a tour, you need to be onboard the USS Salem no later than 10:00am on Friday May 5th. We will open the ship starting at 9:00am for those who would like a cup of coffee and some schoozing before departure. For those of you who are not going on either tour; the USS Salem will NOT be open to the public on friday (Crew will be on watch to repel boarders if provoked ) so please do not show-up at the ship on friday unless you are attending the tours. Check out Convention and tour info at: http://www.mikedunn.freeserve.co.uk/smml/help/smml_con.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: BECJPARKER@aol.com Subject: Re: T Shirts/meeting First,can we get some directions posted for the SMML Convention, I'll be coming up from Newport RI and haven't got a clue how to get there. I need some directions. Just a though on the T shirts, I think they are a little tacky and it limits where you can wear your SMML identification, just my opinion. How about a nice name badge of some sort, then you can pin it to anything, shirt, blazer, suite or the like and it would give you a wider option for where you can wear it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: WEM Back In Action! Hi Guys, Hi Shane and Lorna... and Hi to Mike.. MUST pay him for my SMML shirt!! Well, WEM are back at last... thanks to Peter Hall for his posts on the subject. Much appreciated! Apologies for the delays. We ended up without a telephone line FOR A WEEK, and without a fax line for SIX DAYS! However, it's service as normal once catch up on my backlog!! Thanks for your understanding.. On to few bits n bobs I picked up re. the SMML Con. First, re. trading.. great news! However, please understand that as I am travelling on my own, I cannot, unlike the 1998 US Nationals trip, carry a whole load of gear. What I WILL say, is that if anyone wants to order WEM photoetched brass details in 1/700, 1/600, 1/350, or 1/400 Scales .. WEM PRO 1/600, 1/700, and 1/350 items, WEM "AIRSTRIKE 700" 1/700 Scale aircraft (fixed and rotary), WEM "FLIGHTDECK 350" 1/350 Planes/helos. and "FLIGHTDECK 400" 1/400 Scale aircraft, AND "FLIGHTDECK 500" 1/500 Scale aircraft, I will bring pre-orders along. AND I will give you 20% discount on all of the the above, for a minimum pre-discount order of $30.00... AND, please do remember that we will only be able to take CASH ($ price to be agreed beforehand!). We DO have certain kits in stock that I would be prepared to pack for anyone who wants them though .. 1/700 HMS JERVIS, 1/700 HMS KASHMIR, and 1/700 HMS KELLY, together with 1/700 HMS CHESTER 1916, 1/700 HMS PENELOPE 1940, 1/700 HMS DIDO 1942. Also, 1/350 MTB 379 AND 1/350 HMS BRAVE BORDERER 1965 Fast Patrol boat. Also.. 1/350 HMS TRENCHANT 1999 nuclear sub. I will offer 10% discount off kits for collection at the event. Please E-Mail me, Caroline as soon as possible, with your order, as I only have a couple of days left before I leave! BTW I will be bringing along and entering a couple of Peter Hall's models "by proxy", as he is unable to attend this year.. maybe next year, hey, Peter? Peter has just sent the patterns for the following... awesome work, old chap! K3546 1/350 USS BENJAMIN STODDERT 1989 DDG 22 (C.F. Adams Class DDG) K3547 1/350 HMAS BRISBANE 1991 D41 (Perth Class DDG) K3548 1/350 LUTJENS 1995 D-185 (GERMAN C.F. Adams Type) These will be buildable as either full hull or waterline, cast by JAG Collective in Florida (well, Steve Wiper of Classic Warsahips seems EXTREMELY happy with the quality!). Lots of photoetched brass detail of course, to enhance and embellish. Prices will be wickedly competitive! They are massively detailed patterns.. Peter's best work to date.. photo-feature underway on my return, though some of you guys will see the patterns at the convention of course! These kits WILL be available to traders. Please contact me now re. reservation, as we will need numbers for JAG. All The Best! Caroline Carter http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models White Ensign Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume