Subject: SMML VOL 908 Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 05:55:43 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Treaty Battleships 2: Concrete Liberty Ship 3: Re: baymo 4: U-571 Goofs 5: JAG Albany 6: Re: ModelersVault 7: Re: Iceberg ship Habakuk 8: Re: USCG SUBJECTS 9: Russian "carrier" KIEV 10: Re: Kora Models 11: Re: PT-109 12: Re:Vestal Model!!!! 13: Lighttowers kits 14: Re: The Judge is wrong again! 15: Re: John's Salem model 16: S-Boats SIG 17: U-571 18: Baymo Kits 19: JAG Albany 20: Re: 20 mm tripod mounts 21: Re: Baymo kits 22: Re: Down Periscope 23: Recommended Book 24: Re: John M Lyke 25: UK VCR Alert "Battle of the River Plate" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Information & posts 1: SMML Con - Patriot Ledger article 2: Re: SMMLCon (USS Salem site) 3: SMMLCon Names and addresses 4: SMMLie con -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: One & only t-shirt??? Erm, no! 2: APMA meeting & site update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Satin, Michael N. (LNG-SHEP)" Subject: Treaty Battleships I was thinking about an interesting collection yesterday and suddenly realized that I had almost everything I need. I think. Thus this post. I think it would be kind of neat to do a model of each class of Treaty battleships (those designed and built under the Washington and London Naval treaties), or at least all those by the allies. My chosen scale is 1/350 and I have the Nelson, KGV, Washington (NC class) and Massachusetts (SD class). I don't have the French ships, however. I know Heller makes a 1/400 (I'm willing to go there) Richelieu, but don't know of any Dunkerque models out there. Am I missing one? Considering that those ships (the Dunkerques) were never really finished, do you all think they should count? Thanks! Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Don Carner" Subject: Concrete Liberty Ship Greetings! When I was a mere lad, my folks took me to the Jersey coast, specifically Cape May, NJ. I recall a derelict hull laying just off shore, cracked and withstanding the tests of time. I believe it was a cast-concrete attempt at manufacturing a fleet of Liberty ships from non-strategic materials. There may have been a plaque or memorial on the beach... Anyone know anthing more about this subject? The inventor or company? If one wanted to do a scale model historically accurate, what materials would be advisable? Plans? I do know the idea was scrapped along with other WWII "great-ideas", like Churchill's bridge across the Channel scheme. Thanks, Don no, I still don't want no cheesy poofs... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Re: baymo >> The HUE CITY is 8 feet long (246cm), carbon hull and laser cut STEEL deck and superstructure plates << Just what is the point of steel deck and superstructure plates on a scale model, in particular an operating scale ship model? Are they supposed to rust just like the real thing? And a carbon fiber hull? Give me a break... do they expect the model builder to punt it into the lake like a football? The outrageous pricetag is a result of these unnecessary features and I wonder why there are no pictures of a completed model... Typically German... complicated, overbuilt and over priced. Bah! Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: MIKE.LEONARD@customs.treas.gov Subject: U-571 Goofs Dave wrote - >> The Type VII mock up was excellent but the German "destroyer" was a joke. << Who came up with the idea of taking a very large tug boat and putting five twin gun mounts on it? It looked pretty ridiculous, but the sub mockups were well done. The "S-33" actually did look somewhat like an old S boat altered to pass as German. >> Likewise some very good details like the vintage Beck's beer labels were spoiled by glaring errors like uniforms with breast eagles on the wrong side. << Not to nitpick, but several of the American sailors also appeared to be wearing medal ribbons on their dress whites that were either not issued at all during WW2 or would not have been likely earned by early 1942. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Joe Costanzo" Subject: JAG Albany I am eagerly anticipating this ship! I talked to Joe Damato and he says it will be ready to ship in about a week. I'm still debating whether to get Albany or Long Beach (Joe recommends I get both). I'll be sure to post if and when I get Albany Joe Costanzo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: JRuotsala@aol.com Subject: Re: ModelersVault Does anyone have a phone number for ModelersVault? I am missing an order and no one seems to answer my e-mail inquiry so thought I would call them. Jim Ruotsala -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Erhardtsen" Subject: Re: Iceberg ship Habakuk see Warship number 18 (April 1981) page 80-85. Erik Erhardtsen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Bruce Burden Subject: Re: USCG SUBJECTS Victor M Baca wrote >> 269' Wind class icebreaker. Paint it "gray, with guns," white with USCG stripe, red hulled. Some served with Rusia in WWII as well. << Note that the Wind class ships that served in the Soviet navy (Southwind, Westwind and Northwind) were significantly different from Eastwinds. Southwind was refitted, West and North were also changed from the CG plans. The aft twin 5" mount was replaced, and the winch housing was also altered to fit a 3" gun(?) in place of the aft 5" twin and aft bulkhead of the winch housing was what looks to be an AA mount. Has Loose Cannon released their 1/700 Wind yet? I would really prefer a 1/350, but I can make do while I work with the old Revell kits. Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Roland Mar Subject: Russian "carrier" KIEV In April we had a thread talking about the Russian carriers and their fates. I noted that there is a certain amount of fog about them. Well, the fog just swirled around a bit. It seems that the KIEV, which was listed as stripped/scrapped in 1994 was possibly not dismantled and may be in the process of refurbishment for either use by the new regime, or sale to China. I subscribe to an intell service online and they recently came up with a report that China had bought her. When I checked for details I was advised [literally minutes ago] that KIEV still is intact, and is being towed south off of the Norwegian coast right now. The Norwegian defense forces, and I presume NATO, are said to be monitoring her progress. Some interesting questions for both naval types and modellers, assuming the above report is true: 1) how intact is she?, 2) to what design will she be refurbished?, 3) where is she going for the work (Kronshtadt in St. Petersburg? Black Sea? China? 4) her equipment and employment when recommissioned? Given the proximity of European news services, and the existence of European SMML-ies; does anyone have any news or confirmation of the above? Are there any news agency pictures that can be posted? Curiously yours, Roland Mar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Kora Models >> Does anyone on the list know of a U.S. distributor for the Czech company Kora Models? << You might want to try a Polish internet mail order company, that is reliable, by the name of Jadar, @ www.jadar.com.pl Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Branko Resanowitch" Subject: Re: PT-109 I am looking for photographs of PT-109 as well as the 37mm gun that was used on the Foc'le. I am building the Revell kit for my mother-in-law who is a big JFK nut for Christmas. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re:Vestal Model!!!! Don Hinton wrote: >> I'm in need of plans/photos to scratchbuild a 1/700 USS Vestal to go alongside a Classic Warships USS Arizona. I intend to model them as they appeared minutes before the attack, side by side, with sun awnings and all. Can anyone point me in the right direction for info on the Vestal? TIA. << Don, Hang onto your hat, Corsair Armada has a kit coming out soon on the Vestal. Pacific Front Hobbies will probably have the kit first, about July? Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Lighttowers kits A friend of mine would like to build a model of a lighttower (or is it house). Are there any kit available or any ideas for plans, even plans of the real thing ? Erwin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: BECJPARKER@aol.com Subject: Re: The Judge is wrong again! Well, I really hate to do this, well maybe not. The inaccuracy that was pointed out on the Classic Warship model of the Salem by John Frohock's (replenishment arm on wrong side of turret) doesn't appear to be wrong. I waited until I got my photos back from the convention and the ones I took of the top of the turrets clearly show brackets for the replenishment arm on both sides of the turret. So, it appears either side is correct as the arm is interchangeable. It was a very nice kit and John had done an excellent job on it. It would have been a shame if it would have been a judged event and he would have lost points for what a Judge thought was right but really didn't know. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: John's Salem model >> Another thing, I did check the cruise books and the the turret replenishment arms are not to port on the fwd turrets (at least in the fifties) and I cannot find any evidence they were ever reversed as depicted on the kit. A good example is pg370 in Freidmans Cruiser book, she still has the spotting radars, no shell platforms, the numeral facing the bridge (so the captain would know which ship he was on?) and the rep; arms raising to the starboard side. The arms on NN and DM also go this way ... all raising to stbd, not to the left of the turret. << Aggh! Stop! Stop! Blame Steve Wiper! As for the number on turret #2; at least I know I got that one right because I went to the top of turret #2 and measured the real number for the decal set! John Sheridan (quietly scraping the replenishment arms off his model and reversing them) www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: S-Boats SIG Who here is researching German S-Boats of WWII? It seems to me there is a handful of serious people looking for more information on these boats, especially the later types. I've recently gotten a few photos, and some wartime propaganda magazines with photos. If we all knew who was working on S-Boats, we could swap pics and information! Identify yourselves! Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Phil Lord and Gayle Fink" Subject: U-571 I also saw U-571 over the weekend, and, (without ducking behind a bulkhead) I liked it. Sure, you need to suspend belief because it isn't up to our SMMLy standards--the depth charges explode too close without making the kill, the German DD Z-49 doesn't resmble a DD (but what a handsome hull otherwise if it weren't for those goofy twin turrets), and in mid-ocean, where does that single engine German plane come from? But, I still enjoyed the film, because it's as much about command and the growth of Tyler as an officer, as much as it is about subs, ships, and the Enigma. OK, I confess, I bought into it---but hey, how often do they make war movies, especially about any kind of fighting ships? But the best part, and the biggest surprise for me, was literally last. The filmmakers included a dedication to the REAL sailors and ships who did capture Enigmas during the war, and listed the 2 Royal Navy and 1 USN ship that fulfilled that mission. That was class, and if it stimulates the curiousity of few younger people to learn more about the real events, so much the better. After all, as I repeated to myself..."It's only a movie!" Phil Lord "I don't think she was sunk." Captain Ericson in "The Cruel Sea" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "MJW" Subject: Baymo Kits AFP Models www.afp.zip.com.au also make a 1/72 Ticonderoga (in fact they only do 1/72) at Aus$ 1525.00 that makes them three times cheaper than Baymo - question - is the extra Aus$3000 worth it? Even if the Aussie one is a partial kit, you can buy a whole lot of stuff for 3 grand!!! (just my luck this email makes AFP models put their prices up!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "O'Connor" Subject: JAG Albany Al Salas asked about the JAG ALbany in yesterday's post. I have not built the kit, but I have seen it in several stages of master construction and several kit parts upon completion.. The fine gentlemen at JAG have done a great job with the ship, and it appears to be much better than the older but still not too bad Jim Shirley kit of the Chicago (don't kill me, Tom). I too have built the JAG Long Beach, and just from the visual inspection, I'd have to say that ALbany measures up positively. Hull is better detailed, and deck structures and macks are more detailed than the Shirley kit. Weapons are NICE. You won't regret the purchase. Happy modelling, Bob O'Connor in very humid Central Florida. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: eddp Subject: Re: 20 mm tripod mounts T. Garth Connelly wrote >> Some early PTs did, in fact, have shields on their after 20mm guns. It depended on the availability of the mount and other factors. But most of them did not have shielded 20mms. << Indeed, which is why I said: "Other than the original stern [i.e. after] mounts, PTs did not [have] shields on their 20mms." I have seen an Elco with a shielded 40mm on the bow (a field mod) and shielded .50's or twin .50s on the beam (also field mods), but I can't recall a bow 20mm with a shield. However, to say "Never" is on the road to being proven wrong, so perhaps I should alter my statement to "very rarely." Edd Pflum -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Kenneth Perry Subject: Re: Baymo kits One problem though, I think that they only made ten of them. Talk about shipping, I ordered an 8 footer Tico class from overseas and the shipping was $250 to the US! Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Alan Scheckenbach Subject: Re: Down Periscope Thanks every one for your help on clearing up the Down Periscope conundrum. I have to admit there were some humourous parts that got a laugh and some good bits of submarine footage. Even so it was pretty crook. There's a good chance that I'm faded as well as jaded. If I remember correctly, it was rated as not for children and I distinctly remember the warning that there was some sexual references which turned out to be about the tattoo on the "hero's" dick. I'm glad to hear that the museum got some mileage out of the whole thing and that the Pampanito got a coat of paint. And thanks for the site refences. I did go and visit. Cheers Alan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Recommended Book Just got a copy of Lawson & Tillman's "Carrier Air War in Original WWII Color" from Border's Books for $30. Highly recommended, lots of original color photos of aircraft and aircraft carriers. Mostly very sharp, clear and previously unpublished photos. Also one color shot of KM U-858, and a color shot of the IJN Amagi. Lots of useful color details for model builders. Its interesting to see how weathering looks rather different in color than in BW. Also I noted that the launch picture of the Lexington (CV 16) shows a very brownish color anti fouling paint under the waterline, (its not a color shift-- the US flag bunting is a nice bright red as it should be) I have noted the KM using a similar shade. Also the various deck colorations of USN aircraft carriers is well documented. Some seem to be left in natural wood. Based on it I suggest Synder and Short add another color chip to their set for carrier decks: "Disgusting Brown" Cool book well worth the price. Ignore the authors' bizarre so-called "epilogue". Its a 2 page rant about the Tail Hook scandal which has no place in a book of WWII color photos. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: EDWARDb380@aol.com Subject: Re: John M Lyke Hi, I was wondering if you had information about the John M. Lyke, or its sister ships? Thank you, ED -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Les Pickstock Subject: UK VCR Alert "Battle of the River Plate" "The Battle of the River Plate" BBC2 13th May 00 at 8.55pm A "must see" for anyone who hasn't seen it before. Les Pickstock. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: SMML Con - Patriot Ledger article Hello SMMLies I was looking for the article on SMMLCon in the Patriot Ledger's net presence. I found their link off the Boston Digital City website - but I couldn't locate the article. Is there an address for the article that can be posted? Alternately, can someone scan and post the article on the SMML website? Thanks Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: CapnAgee@aol.com Subject: Re: SMMLCon (USS Salem site) Congratulations to all for what appears to have been an excellent get-together aboard USS Salem. Maybe I can make the next meeting. Just think... could you have had a meeting like this at a granite memorial in D.C.? My hat's off to everyone who developed the concept, did the planning and ran the event. It takes hard work by dedicated people to handle events like this. A thought... USS Kidd has hotels across and down the street plus a beautiful museom full of models, etc....unfortunately USS Texas has none! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: louellet@uism.bu.edu Subject: SMMLCon Names and addresses Art Herrick suggested to me at SMMLCon 2000 that we circulate a pad of paper to compile a name and address list. Well, I did get to it on Sunday, so I don't have everyone. I will use the envelopes you all sent payment in to fill in the blanks. Then I will list those names here for which I am missing information. Once it is compiled, I will send it to any attendee that wants it. I will ask for your email addresses after I have compiled the list so don't send any requests yet. Larry Ouellette Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) United States Naval Shipbuilding Museum Quincy, Massachusetts, USA http://www.uss-salem.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Darren Scannell Subject: SMMLie con I suppose I should add my 2 cents worth. I had a great time, it was fantastic meeting everyone and the boys in Massachusetts did a superb job organizing the event. SMML con part deux: Personally I agree with Shane that it can be held anywhere in the world. Someone just has to step up and volunteer. It won't happen by itself. Maybe it should be a biannual event. If it is in the US again next year or the year after, the west coast would be nice. I like the idea of going to the USS Hornet in Frisco. I wouldn't be adverse to looking into having it at the HMCS Haida in Toronto in the future, but only if Shane and Lorna can attend! Let's hear some more ideas. John Sheridan: I don't know what you're talking about. The numbers on the Salem look perfectly fine when the turret is facing the bridge and Jim Corley didn't need any prodding. ; ) (If you still don't believe me, ask John Frohoc) BTW, I really liked the California. As for the unruly bunch of miscreants that gathered in the motel, it's a good thing we had an ex Bobby there to keep things in order! ( even if he did make me drowsy during his F****r talk : ) Regards, Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Mike" Subject: One & only t-shirt??? Erm, no! Hate to dis-illusion you all, but there are 4 others floating around ....... Caroline's was the 4th made...... We have in pre-production a number of others, for those who have informed via email that their order is in the post, so we should ahve a few out there in time for the Nationals either at Telford or wherever it is in the US this year! For all those who haven't seen the shirt yet, a photo of Caroline wearing it will be on the site over the next day or so! Mike SMML Webmaster Hi Gang, Funnily enough, a couple of SMML T-shirts made it out here. They are very nice indeed and the cotton is of excellent quality and lovely to wear. I can recommend them (shameless plug over :-) Mistress Lorna - who likes quality next to her skin ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Shane Subject: APMA meeting & site update Hi gang, I'd like to extend an invitation to anyone in or visiting Sydney to attend the monthly APMA meeting this Saturday (details on the APMA website). We're having a "Great Aquatic Aircraft" competition (hey at least they float ;-) ). Plus the chance to see the bumbling VP fill in as the President for the month. Plus, the APMA site is updated with new links, A-Z index of the APMA Magazine & Shane's Shiplist is also updated (check the new location under reference). Regards, Shane APMA VP http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume