Subject: SMML VOL 910 Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 01:16:22 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: concrete ships 2: PoW colour scheme during Bismarck chase 3: Re: U-571 4: USS Cabot 5: Re: EASTWIND 6: S-Boat SIG 7: Koing and Grosser Kurfurst 8: USS Grayling, SS-209 9: Re: The Judge is wrong again! 10: Re: Concrete Liberty Ship 11: Lighthouse kits 12: Various 13: Re: Concrete "Liberty" Ship 14: Outrageous Libels by Lars Zander of Daymo, Germany 15: Resin hull "bend" 16: Re: Silliest Battlecruiser!!! 17: Re: Concrete Liberty Ship 18: USS Valley Forge CV-45 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts 1: Re: SMMLie Con 2001 2: Re: SMMLieCon 1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Site update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Shirley Sachsen Subject: concrete ships For more on concrete ships, see the new book 'Build Ships!' which covers the SF Bay Area shipyards. In it are several photos of WWI and WWII concrete hulls. The idea was to save steel, but the rebar required approached 60% of the steel required in a steel hull. Though concrete was durable, the time it took to build/cure made them impractical. There was a yard near where the SF Airport now is that built concrete hulls during WWII. s -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: PoW colour scheme during Bismarck chase According to Robert Dumas in Warship, the colour scheme from completion to August 1941 was medium grey, which would have been AP507B. This is on the excellent Snyder & Short chips but I have read suggestions (pre-S&S chips) that Humbrol HU25 is suitable, although I have not checked this. I have also seen Humbrol 27+92 (Mike Cooper 1995) or HB3 (Roger Chesneau 1977) suggested - same comment applies. Robert Lockie Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: U-571 MIKE.LEONARD writes: >> Who came up with the idea of taking a very large tug boat and putting five twin gun mounts on it? << The same folks who had the Salem "star" as the Graf Spee? As someone who appreciates good looking lines (if not the functionality) of World War II German DD designs, I was disappointed in the cheesy mockup used in the movie. I guess they blew the budget on the subs! Strange that they obviously researched them (using an "S" boat - who wudda thunk it, and getting the bow right!), and just as obviously did not research, or care enough to implement that research the surface ship that was on screen much more visibly. Even given that they had to use the tug (not that many German Destroyers around these days, thank you Royal Navy and others!), the could have digitally altered the ship in post production, or even just kept the tug, added a reasonable deck gun armament, and passed it off as a minesweeper or other small warship. Instead it looked like some nightmare vision of a 1936A plopped down on that unsuspecting vessel. Hollywood... Kurt (Who is available for historical research if any movie producers read this list - I already have my California sunglasses...) SeaPhoto Maritime Photography http://members.aol.com/SeaPhoto/index.html Warship Models Underway http://members.aol.com/wmunderway/home.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: USS Cabot >> National Trust for Historic Preservation 1785 Massachusetts Ave. NW Washington, DC 20036 ATTN: Paul Edmundson, General Counsel check payable to: National Trust for Historic Preservation On the memo line write: USS Cabot account << Well I decided to put my money where my mouth is. I am sending the 'ol Cabot $100. It ain't much but its something and at least I won't be feeling like a useless jerk the next time the topic goes to WWII ships that were needlessly scrapped. Fellow SMMLies, please think about sending them a few bucks, it's a worthy cause!! I'll probably send more later, especially if they offer some kind of donor's pass to visit. Cheers Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Bruce Burden Subject: Re: EASTWIND >> The Eastwind is nearly ready for release, waiting for brass and decals along with finishing instructions. The ship is circa '44 with twin mounts forward and aft and a Gruman Duck behind the stack. Look for the extra anchor on the bow. Probably hit the shelves in time for IPMS Dallas. << Plus the 3 quad 40mm's, 6 20mm's and 4? Y-guns, right? Plus the two depth charge racks and the hedgehog in the bow. How are you going to treat the froward screw? (I won't call it a propeller, since it wasn't used for propulsion). Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Daniel Taylor" Subject: S-Boat SIG My names Dan Taylor and I've been researching S-Boats. Phew, I got it off my chest. In fact I can also admit to building one to 1-76 scale as a master for a new range due out this year. Unfortunately from my point of view, I have only just begun to subscribe and so have not really been able to take advantage of the facilities here. The model is just about done except for the lower hull and a few PE Brass details and the decals. At least one other SMML subscriber has been providing huge amounts of assistance in this work. The two grey areas mentioned before - inside the bridge and the forward 2cm did perplex me although I think that I have come up with accurate representations. I'd be happy to further this research as I shall soon have to build a display version. Dan Taylor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "scola" Subject: Koing and Grosser Kurfurst I was going to purchase the Konig & Grosser Kurfurst from ICM until I compared both ships on their site. Not knowing anything about WWI ships I was wondering if they are the sister ships because they look about the same. If they are I don't want to waste my money and purchase both of them. Does anyone have any advice? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "briscoeii" Subject: USS Grayling, SS-209 Gentlemen, Question on the USS Grayling, SS-209. Would anyone know if the Grayling's conning tower or sail was modified before she was lost in September 1943? I have a photo of her with the "as delivered" sail on sea trials. Ships in her class as well as the Gato class were starting to be modified in that general time frame. Also I have a shot of her a Pearl on 12-31- 41with her hull number on the conning tower and bow. I would think they would have painted that out before she went on her first patrol. I going to use a Revell Lionfish Sub kit with a Nautilus conning tower upgrade kit capture the Grayling if I can. Any help with some photos of her in action or any information would be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Jim Gaines -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: The Judge is wrong again! >> I learned one thing, NEVER take a model of a ship to the ship unless everything matches ... too many smart alecs like me to point out the problems! But, like I said, after taking a tour of the ship and looking at all of the little details, my memory prodded me to inquire. << I knew this might be a problem considering how many anal-retentive ship moders were onboard the very ship I modeled . The only thing that could've been worse would be to build a 1/96th model of a Flower class corvette and subject it to John Lambert's eye.... (Psst everyone! John Frohock did not dare bring out his model of, you guessed it, a 1/96th Flower......unfinished of course!) >> BTW, you didn't have the windows painted on the 3" directors, either. ;-] << Oh gawd !!!.......I feel so,....so,....dirty (sob, sob, sob) John Sheridan (reduced to painting 1/350th scale windows.) www.shipcamouflage.com I am not Unit# 631 of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) If there were a Lumber Cartel, the last place on earth I would look for it would be: http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: TATagg@aol.com Subject: Re: Concrete Liberty Ship During WW2, the US Maritime Commission build a number of large concrete barges, MC Type B7-D1. They were about 366 feet long, a beam of 54 feet and a draft of 26 feet, their Light Displacement was around 5,300 tons and Full Load was about 11,000 tons.... A fairly good size Barge. Several of these were built in the San Francisco Bay Area by Belair Island Shipyard. The USN operated a several of them as Stores Ships, Floating Warehouses and Station Tankers at advance bases across the Pacific. They had "IX" classifications numbers, IX 149-154 & IX 158-164. They were "named" vessels, using mostly mineral type names (Quartz, Silica, Barite, etc). One was lost, USS Asphalt IX 153, at Saipan in October of '44. It's still there, I read an article about it several years ago and I understand it's a popular dive site. Thom Taggart San Francisco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Melea/Mike Maynard" Subject: Lighthouse kits Hello All Stations To those who missed the SALEM and the SMML meet, you missed a lot! John's USS Salem was great, as were all the models. A great bunch of folk, kudos to the organizers...Special thanks to John Lambert, may there always be an England... In response to Erwin Van Deyne's question concerning lighthouse kits, I know of two. Crow River Products makes a resin kit of a "Spark Plug" light, I think it's Old Saybrook light in Connecticut. The other lighthouse kit is sold by Bluejacket Ship models in Maine. I think it's plaster and/or wood construction, sort of a"generic" light. And if you can find one, Lindberg made a plastic model back in the 1960's(try EBAY) If you contact the Coast Guard Public Affairs office in Washington they might guide you to a set of plans.... Hey Duane, don't forget the 255' Owasco class cutter, same tonnage as a Fletcher class destroyer, twin 5'' guns, 255 feet long! "A collision at sea can ruin your whole day" MJM USCG (Ret) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Various Returned yesterday from an extended business trip. Good to be home again. Good to be able to read up on the SMML activities. --------------------------------- Re: Gallipoli (Vol 892) >> 85 years ago today, ANZAC (Australian & New Zealand Army Corps) troops landed in Gallipoli. << If any of the SMML modeler's are also players of the old SSI game Panzer General, I have written two custom Panzer General scenarios which portray the Gallipoli campaign. These scenarios, plus a number of other scenarios which simulate major battles from 1914 through 1916, can be found at my personnel web page: http://members.aol.com/RhinoBones.htm Of course a computer game can only simulate the suffering that the soldiers from France, England, Australia, New Zealand, Germany and Turkey endured. Allied or Central Power . . . they all felt the brutality of war. Fortunately these are only computer scenarios. --------------------------------- Re: "buff" for USS Olympia, older US battleships (Vol 893) >> Is there a particular color of paint that can be used for buff on the USS Olympia and USS Oregon? Instructions call for "buff" but I can't find a paint going by this name. Is it a tan or brown? Also I've seen two different photoetch sets for these two kits (Revell and Glencoe). Any suggestions on which ones to get? << I've been using Testor’s spray “Afrika Mustard” number 1955 for buff on the Oregon and Olympia. To my eye, this color has a bit more richness of the brown/yellow than I see in some other portrayals of buff. Afrika Mustard matches up very well with the museum ships I've seem of the 1890’s period. Strongly recommend this color/product. I've bought Tom's PE for the Oregon and am quite impressed with the thoroughness of the kit. The PE and the instructions (a most important commodity of the kit) are excellent. Highly recommended . . . can be bought for about $30. It was from Tom's instructions that I first learned that the Glencoe Oregon was manufactured with a false deck on the boat deck level, deck 3. I expect that Glencoe did this for ease of manufacturing. In the mean time, I have viewed a good model of the Oregon at the Baton Rouge Maritime Museum and now plan to cut out the false decking on my own model. Do a bit of scratch building in order to add the internal structures and to fully appreciate the modeling experience. Maybe in five or six months I’ll have a picture to post on the SMML. I have no experience with the Revell PE set . . . and would appreciate hearing any reviews that you may have received. --------------------------------- Re: IJN Mikasa and HMVS Cerberus (Vol 907) >> For myself, I am looking for plans of the breastwork monitor HMVS Cerberus of 1870. Built on the Tyne to provide coastal protection to Port Phillip in Victoria, Australia. Now a rusting breakwater. Well before the period covered by the active membership of the . . . << I can't help you with the request for information on your chosen project . . . but I can say “thank you” for having the interest and expressing enthusiasm for building ships of this early period. The 1870’s thru 1900’s is an exciting time of design and fabrication of warships . . . much the same as the covered wagon-to-rocket ship analogy that we hear from the old (older than I) folks. And yes, there are many more people in the SMML circle who enjoy the early period of ship development. The active membership of this forum supports your interests. --------------------------------- Here's a note for those who enjoy the newest and greatest in modern warships. While on travel I had an opportunity to view the latest USN Aegis class destroyer . . . the USS Roosevelt (DDG 80). Earlier this month she was taken out for the "Charlie" sea trials and was given excellent marks by the Navy. The Roosevelt is the first in her class to be fitted to carry SH-60B ASW helicopters, upgraded with two hangers (which add five feet to the total length) and a helo capture system. Formal delivery of the Roosevelt to the Navy is scheduled for mid June. Ask your favorite modeling house when they'll have a DDG 80 kit available. Here is a second note which I would like to toss out for some discussion . . . and this deals with the authenticity and fidelity of the models we build. For myself, I wouldn't know whether particular features are, or are not, features which appeared on the actual ship. I certainly admire those of you who are knowledgeable in this area and fully expect that you feel a great sense of accomplishment, but frankly, this level of detail is lost on me. I suspect that I am not alone is this. Therefore, when I build a model my goal is to build a model which, a) is reasonably accurate considering the quality of the kit and my skill at modeling and, b) is a model which I find interesting and pleasing to set on my bookcase. I've probably built some assemblies and painted some things which would make the expert modeler gag . . . but I like it! Of course I'm not advocating that that you paint a ship your favorite color of day-glo or put sails on the Titanic . . . but I think that there is plenty of room here for artistic liberty. Maybe that's why I find the turn of the century ships so interesting . . . they have a unique (almost primitive) look to them and I can color them in a Jules Verne motif. I don't feel limited. Anyone else share a similar point of view . . . better yet, a different point of view? Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Concrete "Liberty" Ship Some years ago I ran across a book in the general reference section of the California State Library. Published in 1920, the _Shipbuilding Cyclopedia_ was a wealth of information, terminology, and--plans! I conned the reference section into loaning it to me for a couple of weeks (I was a state employee then) and copied the plans. I later put out a book search and now own my own copy (don't ask the price--though it wasn't as much as the 1929 Munsell Book of Color). Anyway, among the plans are those for a 7,500-ton Concrete Cargo Vessel, and a 7,500-ton Concrete Tanker. There are lots of other ships as well. Most of these vessel types made up WW2 convoys as well, and I've long felt they ought to make saleable models. I'm going to contact Dave and Caroline at WEM to see if they're interested in having a look and perhaps a go at it. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Michael Kear" Subject: Outrageous Libels by Lars Zander of Daymo, Germany Dear Fellow SMMLers, So someone criticises Baymo Models prices and Lars Zander decides the best way to answer this criticism is to heap accusations and lies on me, rather than justify his high prices. I can't believe that Shane allowed Zander to put such a message on to a reputable resource like this. I'm accused of behaviour which is doubtful and perhaps even criminal without any justification at all. Zander has a clear commercial interest in seeing me damaged and has taken every step he can to see that damage occurs to me. This attack on me was unnecessary. A SMMLer made a comment about his prices, which Zander took as criticism, and instead of justifying his price by saying it has superior quality or a lot of parts or whatever he thinks he can say to justify it, he diverts the criticism by heaping vicious libels on me. If Zander were in Australia he would have a libel writ in his hands Monday morning. I am indeed sorry that you have now become embroiled in an an outrageous libel against me by an uncrupulous and dishonest individual called Lars Zander of Baymo Models in Germany. And I'm sorry that I really do have to reply to his statements in the strongest terms. If it embarasses you, I'm truly sorry. It certainly embarasses me. He has accused me on this list of dishonesty, and surrounded his lies by what seem to be facts but are impossible for anyone to verify. I hate this kind of exchange when it appears on lists I'm involved in, but I'm afraid I have no alternative but to counter-accuse Lars of deceptive behaviour for pure avaricious commercial reasons. I suspect Lars of buying a Tico kit from me simply to copy it and violate the copyrights of the people making parts in Task Force 72. I have to answer each of his monstrous libels in turn: >> Zander says: Our first step was to order a kit of the TICO at AFP models down under. We payed for two kits and received nothing.......Mike Kear, the owner of AFP models ensured us, that the stuff has been send off....nothing arrived. << Not so. Lars has received everything he ordered. I have proof if you're really interested. In fact, Lars tried to convince me he didn't receive running gear - I put in the package myself, in order to cheat me into sending another set. Some background is needed .... AFP Models was established to offer some of the things members of Task Force 72 were making to the modellers round the world. Semi-kits offered by us are made by various members of Task Force 72.Some kits are made by one person, others are made by a whole lot of people and packaged by me. Since all these manufacturers are hobby modellers, and none is earning a living from it, the time frame stretches out quite a lot in some cases. Months sometimes. In one case more than a year. (This is not a satisfactory situation and it's part of the reason I'm taking the action outlined later in this email). Lars refused to listen to me while I told him this and insisted if it had taken longer than he was prepared to wait then I must be cheating him. Nothing I said could convince him otherwise. Even after he received his model, that was not enough. So here's Lars's first lie - nothing arrived. Piffle. He received everything he ordered and tried to cheat me for more. It took longer than he wanted to get there, but he got everything - EVERYTHING - he ordered and paid for. >> Zander says: After having made contacts to the guys of TF 72 , we got to know that AFP models is no longer the distributor of the models created by Allen PEW (APS models) << This is partly true. We're no longer buying anything from Allan Pew's APS models. Allan Pew doesn't want to be sending any more of his models out of Australia because (a) he's worried that people overseas will mould his work and cheat him of his copyright. In Zanders case, I think he perhaps has a justified fear. (b) Allan is a relaxed guy, living a semi-retirement in a quiet seaside town and doesn't like hassle. Lars, even though buying from me, contacted Allan directly, and this was enough for Allan to say he no longer wanted anything to do with the web site. He didn't want people calling him from round the world about things that were nothing to do with him. After all, Allan had sold me the parts, I'd sold them with other things to Lars, and Allan didn't want anything to do with it. So friends, what might have been an excellent opportunity for everyone to have 1/72 models, was ruined by Lars refusal to listen to me. >> Zander says: and that he will not any longer host the home page of TF 72 in Australia. << This is true. Task Force 72 has formed a web site committee, of which I am a member to build a new site under the club's own domain name hosted by the club and owned by the club. The Task Force 72 site has been owned maintained and hosted by me personally for 5 years with no ownership or involvement of the club. The directors of Task Force 72, which as Webmaster I am one, decided that it was appropriate for the club to have more ownership of its official site, and it ought not to be relying on one member to own its web site. This move was prompted in part by some agressive insistence on my part that the club have ownership and input to the site and some gameplaying with the site on my part to provoke some action from them, and by the growing realisation in the club that they had no control over the content of the site. What is not true in Lars statement is the inference that the AFP Models activity which he is desperate to destroy is the cause of this. >> Zander says: Many people ordered kits from AFP models and received nothing else than promises << Not true. This is OUTRAGEOUS! How can Lars possibly know who I do business with!!?? Lars can not possibly know how many people I deal with, and how many people have ordered goods from us, let alone how many have allegedly received "nothing else than promises". This is a pure fiction on Lars part. Are we to believe that people will pay A$700-A$1500 for a model, not receive it, and instead of complaining to the supplier (me) complain to Lars instead???? If anyone is in this category, they have yet to contact me about it, except for one person in Japan who cancelled a small order and for some reason I'm unable to determine has not received a refund to his credit card. He will receive his refund. If there is anyone who has ordered goods and not received them, naturally I want to know about it and I will resolve the issue, as any reputable person would. Lars has made this allegation before to some of my friends, also without substantiating it at all in an attempt to disrupt my friendships and cause damage to AFP Models. We have proof of receipt for every last order in our system (except for those that are still in process of course). We always ship goods in a way that we can guarantee receipt - it's required to protect ourselves against credit card fraud. If anyone believes they have ordered goods, and not received them, they should contact me directly and I'll discuss it with them. I'm not about to debate the details of whether I did or didn't ship goods in a forum like this. I repeat, if anyone has ordered goods and not received them, apart from a few orders I'm waiting to get the goods for, and one that's in transit, there is no one who has contacted me about this. Lars Zander is wishing to cause damage to my reputation by making this statement and knowing full well there's no way anyone other than me can know for sure whether the goods were indeed delivered. >> Zander says: after having payed a total three times cheaper than our kit. << Perhaps this poor grammar is because English is not Lars native language. I think he is saying that his product is 3 times our price. This would indicate why he desperately wants to damage AFP Models. I leave you to decide this yourselves. >> Zander says: After that had happenend, we decided to make our own kit, without copying any part of that which Allen Pew did, and our intention was to create a kit without any compromise. << This might seem odd, specially to Lars, but I applaud this. I think the world needs more 1/72 ship models, and I welcome his efforts. Just as I welcome Sirmar to the 1/72 fold, as I believe they are now selling 1/72 warship kits. But Zander ought to spend his time justifying his own prices and his own policies rather than trying to deflect criticism by slanging me. And I certainly hope he has NOT infringed any of Task Force 72's members rights by copying their parts. >> Zander says: If you would have the chance to ask Allen Pew, by the way, he cancelled the business with AFP models << yes he did. To my regret. Because he didn't want the hassles of dealing with people like Lars. The reason Allan Pew set up the arrangement with me in the first place was because he didn't want to be involved with overseas orders, with web sites, with international customers, with people phoning him at home over things like this. Lars wouldn't listen to me and called him several times and wrecked the business for everyone. Maybe in time it can be resurrected, maybe not. In the mean time Lars has his wish and AFP Models can no longer supply 1/72 ship models because its all seen as being "too hard and too many hassles". Thanks to Lars, I'm having trouble filling orders I have already received and may well end up having to cancel them. So there might well be other people who don't get their models because of Lars. But they'll all get back any money they've paid if this happens. >> Zander says: To cut a long story short, any guy around the the Task Force 72 in Australia cancelled the relationship with Mike Kear of AFP models because of his strange business behaviors. << Not true. NOT TRUE. The only person cancelling any arrangements with me was Allan Pew - who as it happens supplied most of the items, and by far the highest quality. This cancellation made the whole thing a doubtful proposition - no longer worth all the effort. I am considering other products and will be altering the catalogue soon. >> Zander says: If you would like to order a cheaper kit of the TICO, please use the adress and phone number of Allan Pew, who is actually the manufacture of the kits announced by AFP models(APS models) << This should be "...Allan Pew, who makes some of the parts of some of the kits formerly offered by AFP Models." And while I dont really want to commit Allan Pew - he can make his own decisions - but if he helped me set up AFP models in the first place because he didnt want to deal with exporting models around the world, I have doubts he will want to now either. I hope this is the end of this matter. I won't tolerate any more of these vile libels from Zander. It should be obvious to all he has a plain commercial interest in damaging what we're doing, and he has succeeded. I believe he deliberately set out to damage the relationship between Allan Pew and myself, and he succeeded in wrecking a 15 year friendship. If anyone has an issue with me or with my "strange behaviours" they should take it up with me or with the Australian Consumers Association (www.choice.com.au)_ or with the New South Wales Department of Fair Trading. I will not be subjected to any more libels in this forum. I will certainly not be having any more involvement with Lars Zander of Baymo and would recommend no one else does either. Zander has succeeded in destroying a worthwhile activity - not a business - by fine, honest, good modellers. He got his wish. Now let him crawl back under whatever slime he came from and work on his own business - if he can get any customers. Cheers, Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Hi Gang, Well, letting the intial post go thru without checking was an error on my part. Now that Mike has had his right of reply, consider this part of the Baymo thread closed. Any further correspondance on this matter is to be taken to private email from hereon in. Or taken to the Australian Govt departments outlined above with any further accusations. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Tadrick@aol.com Subject: Resin hull "bend" Hi all. I was hoping someone could help me out. I just received a new resin model ship in the mail. This is only my second resin kit and I'm not sure what to do with what I hope is a minor problem. The hull has a slight bend in it. Could someone please explain the procedure to straighten it out. Please be as detailed as you can as this is really new ground for me and I probably will not be able to fill in the blanks, just yet. Thanks for the help in advance. This is a great place, made so by the super people on it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: Silliest Battlecruiser!!! >> (I like battlecruisers even more than battleships - so incredibly much money spent for so little gain. I'd really really like a Courageous, my candidate for the silliest battlecruiser, and don't tell me "Large Light Cruiser", thank you very much, I know a battlecruiser when I see one. :-) << HAH!!!!!! You think GLORIOUS and CORAGEOUS were silly?? Look at their half sister FURIOUS as built. Now THAT`S silly!!! Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Erhardtsen" Subject: Re: Concrete Liberty Ship Talk about Concrete Ship: Italien FAA´DI BRUNO monitor of 1916 was a concrete "ship" Armament: 2-15", 4-3"AA, 2-40mm Armour: 2900 mm. concrete (yes, 2.9 meter) Speed: ca. 3 kts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: USS Valley Forge CV-45 Hi Guys I need some help with the USS Valley Forge CV-45. The 50 50th anniversary of the Korean War is coming up and since that carrier was the first to launch air strikes in it. What was her AA gun layout ? Would she had 20 mm still on board? Would she had been equipped still with 40 mm instead of the 3/50 AA gun that developed after the war. I believe her air group consisted of Corsairs,Skyraiders, and Panther jets. Any help would be appreciated. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: SMMLie Con 2001 Duane Fowler writes: >> I just wanted to let all know what a great time I had at the SMML gathering on the USS Salem. My great appreciation to all involved. I would like to put out a suggestion for either 2001 that we meet aboard the USS Hornet in Alemeda. The hanger deck makes for one LARGE meeting room! There are several other museum ships and ship museums in the area. << Hi Duane, I am not connected with the Hornet museum, but if I can help with the event in any way, let me know, as I live across the bay from Alameda. San Francisco would be a pretty easy sell to the SO's in our lives too! If you are going to hold it here, I would suggest October, which is our nicest weather, or possibly May. Maybe the weekend after (or before) Fleet Week in October, which would give those who could swing a week here to opportunity to tour some ships, see the Blue Angels, and watch the parade of ships. I would not, however, recommend on holding the convention the actual weekend of Fleet Week to avoid schedule conflicts. Kurt SeaPhoto Maritime Photography http://members.aol.com/SeaPhoto/index.html Warship Models Underway http://members.aol.com/wmunderway/home.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: SMMLieCon 1 Well, I guess I'm about the last to report in, since I took a few extra days to do some family research. Those who couldn't make the gathering missed a really good time! Our hosts--kudos to all--knocked themselves out with on- and off-site tours, good meals, and some very interesting talks. I finally got to meet the redoubtable Al Ross, and greatly enjoyed hearing him hold forth on small combatants. Duane Fowler's presentation on producing decals with the ALPS printer was most enlightening (especially since Duane sold me his original ALPS and I still haven't used it!). And for anyone who wants to know ANYTHING about Flower-class corvettes, John Lambert (Hugh?? Come on, Caroline..who else knows him as Hugh??) has ALL the answers (he also has a plans service for anyone looking to build virtually any of the class). I've seen the various posts with suggestions for the next SMMLieCon. While I certainly will be there, wherever it is, and wouldn't mind journeying to the UK or elsewhere, there is a lot of merit to the HORNET suggestion (Ken Durling, are you listening and taking notes?). The SF Bay Area has LOTS of accommodations available for a wide range of prices, and besides HORNET, we'd have PAMPANITO, JEREMIAH O'BRIEN, and RED OAK VICTORY (provided she's not in drydock undergoing restoration at the time) on the military side of things, plus the historic ships at the National Maritime Museum, and the Museum's fine collection as well. There's also the Mare Island Museum, and perhaps a tour of Mare Island might even be arranged. Anyway, something to think about.... John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Mike" Subject: Site update Hi all, The plans of mice & men......well, the site has FINALLY been updated with the SMML Con info, as well as the newspaper clipping, and a look at the Sandown model show as well........ Lots of pretty pictures, and none as fair as John Snyder......except Caroline Carter, but it's so close I ain't gonna call it !!!!! And the Archives are up-to-date as well...... Phew! What a week.....! Mike SMML Webmaster Yup, some great pics, including Master Synder ;->. All we need now is some labels on those SMMLies in the pics, esp the one with the good taste to wear a HMAS Ovens Tshirt ;-> Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume