Subject: SMML VOL 915 Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:13:07 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Fixing PE 2: Web page 3: Re: warped resin hulls 4: Re: Longevity of Ship Models 5: Hawaii suggestions and then some 6: Re: Silliest Battlecruiser 7: Re: Longevity of Ship Models 8: Re: Model Longevity 9: Hawaiian honeymoon 10: Small props, where O where? 11: Off-topic: USS Saratoga - SAAB 12: Modern Iowa 13: Airbrushing Clear Flat 14: S boats 15: Extra! Mariners' Museum 2000 Scale Ship Model Competition Winners 16: Re: PT-109 17: Schools out! 18: PH Diorama Status? 19: Heller colour callouts 20: BOOKS ALERT - including possible book of the year (!) 21: Re: Valley Forge -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts 1: Re: SMMLieCon 2 2: SMMLCon 2002 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: For Ken Goldman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Alan Roots" Subject: Fixing PE I'm having problems fixing PE to plastic can anyone tell me the best type of superglue (cyanoacrylate0 or any other method for sticking this material so it will stay where it's meant to. This is my first try with a plastic ship kit, in this case the Tamiya 1/350 KGV with GM PE. I have primed the surface before fixing the brass is this wrong. As my past experience is with sticks and string plank on frame period ships and flying scale model aircraft I can use all the help and advice I can get. Thanks in advance Alan R -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Poore, Devin" Subject: Web page If anyone wants to follow along with a first time resin ship builder as I go through the construction of a kit (BWN's USS Farenholt), take a look at the following: http://home.earthlink.net/~devinj/modeling.htm Some of you long time ship builders might get a kick out of my mistakes! (Hopefully there won't be that many). Devin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: AandMBlevins@gateway.net Subject: Re: warped resin hulls Just a thought, but it seems to me that returning the part to the manufacturer for replacement would be the method of choice. Don't they replace defective parts? Having built only one resin kit (with no warpage), but having read the preceeding discussions, I would be reluctant to purchase any kit without a replacement guarantee. Al Blevins -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Longevity of Ship Models >> But are there any alternatives to CA glue for resin products? << There are always epoxies, but assembly times will increase dramatically. Some of the industrial strngth contact cements might also be useful for attaching large parts or large subassemblies. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Hawaii suggestions and then some Thanks to everyone who has suggested places for myself and my finace to see and visit in Hawaii. Contrary to what may be going through some peoples' minds, I do have a pretty good idea on how to spend my time during my honeymoon. :-) It was actually my wife-to-be that suggested we both visit these places while in Oahu for those days when we feel like actually doing something. I think she is just as excited as me to visit the ships at Pearl Harbor. Plus we have another week in Maui... How's this for a perfect spouse- a typical Saturday morning, as we are doing some shopping, she asks me whether I need to go to the local hobby store for anything. I was planning on getting a new kit so we stop by. Inside, I decide between two kits and choose one. We get home and about ten minutes later, she pulls the other kit I passed by out of a bag! Turns out she payed for that kit while I had stopped to flip through some modelling magazines on my way to the cashier to pay for the kit that I had decided on. Don't believe it? It is 100% true. I guess she would rather see me sitting at home with paint and glue all over my fingers then in some bar on a weekday evening! Now why doesn't this happen in the stereo store? Once again thanks for the info from everyone! Yohan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Mark Shannon" Subject: Re: Silliest Battlecruiser The thread has gone into a discussion of various aspects of the Glorius/Courageous/Furious group. But there is one candidate for the thread title award that hasn't been mentioned. While designed through mistake via British secrecy and skullduggery, the poor SMS Bluecher has to get the "what am I doing here!?" prize for battlecruiser designation. Not only was 'he' underarmed at 8", but the underarmoured design was also incompetently laid out, slow, and apparently even a poorer seaboat than most of the German designs. For folly, the continuation of using Bluecher in the battlecruiser role, where he not only was of doubtful value in firepower, but also slowed the whole squadron down, has to rank with the British mistakes in the design and use of their tin clad Inflexibles, Indomitables, and protected cruisers at Jutland. In fact, it could be argued that Hipper got the best use he could have expected from the ship when he tied down the British First Battlecruiser Squadron while they sank it at Dogger Bank and the rest of his ships escaped -- think of the difference that could have made if the kind of battlecruiser fight Jutland became had occurred then. 20-20 Hindsight, here, but probably the best use the Germans could have made of Bluecher was to have the ship based in the African possessions, meet the Konigsberg and/or Emden, and act as a big brother to them. (Or possibly swap the positions of Goeben and Bluecher) Mark L. Shannon, Ph.D. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Longevity of Ship Models David.Summers writes: >> Reference was recently made to an article on the Nautical Research Guild website concerning model ship construction techniques and materials. It's dangerous to comment on the observations of someone as august as The Navy Curator of Ship Models, but the implication is that our injection polystyrene models and resin will be small piles of dust in a year or two--which is not quite accurate. << I did not read that into the article at all. It does raise legitimate concerns about the longevity of materials, but does not say that styrene will turn to dust in a short period of time. The article seemed harder on resin models, which the author believe are chemically unstable and prone to degradation. Time will be the ultimate arbiter of this issue - probably more time than would matter to us! [Snip] >> The Navy Curator seems to say, "Wood is Good; Plastic is Bad". << Not at all, he goes out of his way to differentiate, for example, between styrene and Plexiglas. The latter calls a Class A material, having an expected life of at least 100 years. The remainder of your post is good assessment of UV hazards to models, and the emphasis on proper storage, which I agree with. As for casting resin, well I guess the best answer is that we don't know how it will hold up in the long term. As I have cast parts on my models, I hope it will be a lasting material. I do know that it discolors and seems to surface harden when exposed to light, so I store my parts in a dark place, and try and paint them as soon as I finish any work I need to perform on them. One of the important points to take away from the article is the necessity of not relying on adhesives alone, but to have a mechanical strength in critical joints. On operating models, we quickly learn that if it is not bolted or pinned on the deck, it will fall off. Static models take longer to experience this, but gravity effects everything (especially after we turn 40 ). The author also pointed out the common mistake of applying adhesives over paint, which quickly leads to bond failure. Everything has a lifespan, and all our creations will be gone someday - that is just a sad fact of physics. As always, we can choose to put the degree of effort into building a lasting creation that we desire. By doing the best job we can, our models will last our lifetimes, and perhaps several more. Kurt SeaPhoto Maritime Photography http://members.aol.com/SeaPhoto/index.html Warship Models Underway http://members.aol.com/wmunderway/home.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Re: Model Longevity In my parents' home is a scratch-built spaceship model I left there when I moved out (no room yet at home) It's 45" long, narrow, and built almost entirely of styrene (sheet, strip, and pirated kit parts along with a few ABS bits), mostly unpainted. It has hung (by two lengths of 20 lb test fishing line) in front of a large window (afternoon sun) now for over 15 years. The first glue joint on it (Testors cement) is 23 years old, the last (ACC and Testors) are some 16 years old. Not a part is loose, not a joint has opened, not a sheet has shrunk. I guess I'm just lucky ;-) Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Hawaiian honeymoon Hey, even on a honeymoon, everyone needs a breather! The Hawaii IPMS chapter (Battleship Row) also meets on the last Saturday of every month at Tripler Hospital. Just the thing to take a new bride to, to show her how "normal" you are. Burl Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 808-263-6087 buzz@aloha.net A historical interpretation company. Visit our web site at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Art Pagsuyoin Subject: Small props, where O where? Can anyone recommend a place where I can locate small props? I'm working on a Lindberg LSU and I need to replace the stock props with ones in better detail in 1/2" diameter. Left and right turns as well. If not I could really use some tips on scratchbuilding seaworthy props in that size. thanks all -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Mike" Subject: Off-topic: USS Saratoga - SAAB Matthew Prager wrote : >> Okay, I know this isn't exactly a historical ship modeling topic, but we have ventured into the realm of scifi before. If you are interested, drawings of the USS SARATOGA (SCVN-2812) from the TV series SPACE: ABOVE & BEYOND are available at the following website: www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/2760/exhibit.htm A couple of the drawings show the starship in scale with USS SARATOGA (CV-60). << If anyone is really interested in this series & the ships therein, then I can 100% recommend the magazine Science Fiction & Fantasy, or SF&F to their subscribers. They have covered a lot of modelling topics, from how you shoot models (still and motion) through to how the pros build them, and home-build projects as well. SAAB has been the subject of several issues, indeed a couple of them had some wonderful diagrams and photos in. Well worth tracking down - I picked up the first 2 test issues, and have been a subscriber ever since - there ain't many mags that make me part with my cash, either! Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Satin, Michael N. (LNG-SHEP)" Subject: Modern Iowa Some years ago (mid-80s?) Revell put out a 1/350 modern Iowa, BB-61. As I recall it wasn't a bad kit. Does anyone know how hard that kit is to come by? Am I being silly in asking? I don't know what would be involved in converting the Tamiya NJ to Iowa. If it's easy, that might make more sense. Any opinions? (C'mon, I KNOW you all have opinions! ;->) Thanks! Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Felix Bustelo" Subject: Airbrushing Clear Flat Hello All, I would like to know the trick to properly airbrushing clear flat on a model. I have a bottle of Floquil and Tamiya clear flat coat and they are both milky and I am afraid to have that frosted finish on the model that may happen - which started to happen on my Type A-69 Aviso when I was finishing it up. So, what is the secret - should I use a ratio of more thinner and less flat? Is there another solution? I would hate to ruin my Ajax model especially after painting that camo scheme on her. TIA, Felix Bustelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Francis Macnaughton" Subject: S boats Having just caught up with a backlog on SMML, I am also keen on German WWII S boats and would be willing to swop information. I did look in the Imperial War Museum photofiles a while back so I can offer a few interesting negative numbers. Another research possibility is that the RN had one pressed into service in the 1950s as a testbed for the Napier deltic diesel engine - there is a picture in Fast Attack Craft by Phelan and Brice of P5212 as this boat was known by then at the 1953 Fleet Review. Anyone know what happened to that boat? Francis Macnaughton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Vincent Mccullough" Subject: Extra! Mariners' Museum 2000 Scale Ship Model Competition Winners The list of winning winners in the Mariners' Museum Scale Ship Model Competition for 2000 have been announced, and are posted on the Nautical Research Guild's web site at http://www.naut-res-guild.org. The NRG wishes to congratulate the winners and all of those who entered this prestigious international competition! While I have not yet seen these models, I understand that they are a truly remarkable collection. If you have the chance, stop by the museum to check them out. The models will be on display through October, and the awards will be presented to the winners at the NRG's annual conference, which will be held in Newport News the last week in October. The Mariners' Museum web site can be found at http://www.marinersmuseum.org. Vince McCullough NRG Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: Re: PT-109 Mr. Connelly said: >> To John F- PT-109's 37mm gun WAS lashed down with ropes. I have four handwritten letters from the four late crewmembers of the 109, one of whom is still alive. Each letter says "lashed down with ropes." Apparently - they planned on bolting it down the following day. << What I said: >> I did not put down any lashings because, when the last surviving members of Kennedy's crew were interviewed, a long while back, they could not recall how the gun was tied down. They were just glad they never had to fire it! << As you can see, I did not say the gun was not lashed down. It is common knowledge that it was. What has not stood the test of time on memories was they could not remember HOW IT WAS LASHED DOWN! I therefore chose not to show tiedowns or lashings because without historical backup it most likely would be incorrect. The model in Question was built for the Kennedy Library which in turn presented to the US Naval Shipbuilding museum. Library sources were used for accuracy. The library, at the time the model was built, did not have any documentation either stating the methods nor diagrams showing, the lashings applied to the gun. Mr. Connelly, if you have any authenticated documentation stating or showing the methods used, then you sir are way ahead of everyone who ever built a model of this boat. I would hope you would share this information. Is it in your book? I for one would love to see it and be able to upgrade one of our museum's showpieces. John Frohock USNSSM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Joe Costanzo" Subject: Schools out! Well, exams are done, I'm out of school and back home for the summer in 2 days. Not that I won't miss it, but the last time I worked substantially on a ship was winter break! Anyway, I have the JAG Albany on order, along with GMM's Modern USN/JMSDF set and ultra fine railing (oh so fine...) It looks to be an interesting summer anyway, I'll post a report on Albany when it arrives. I do actually have a question in this post, which is, what is the best way to represent antennas in 1/700 scale? I don't feel comfortable with stretched sprue, and my workplace isn't too well ventilated anyway. Are there any other methods? Joe Costanzo (trying to scrape glue stains off his desk before dorm inspection) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Michael Quan" Subject: PH Diorama Status? Hello Jeff Herne! What is the current status of the Pearl Harbor diorama project? Curious minds want to know..... Mike Quan windy in North Central Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Shane Weier Subject: Heller colour callouts GDay NOT that I'm getting so wrapped up in this as to give up my main themes, but having now bought a couple of the Heller Narvik Z-31 kits, I've also been tempted to add one of the small "Torpedoboot" kits to the ever deepening stash lining the walls of two rooms. Last night I spent a few happy minutes correlating the colour callouts on the Torpedoboot kit with the Humbrol colour names. They suggest a 113 rust deck with most of the remainder of the ship in a disruptive scheme of 147 light grey, 77 navy blue and 102 army green. Any comment on this, anyone? I have a vague recollection of reading here that the red/brown decking should in fact be dark grey, but no idea whether the other colours are appropriate or not (nor indeed whether I just imagined the bit about deck grey!) Which leads me to wonder out loud whether SMML has previously discussed the destroyer colours I'll need for my Z-boat project. Regards Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Gollin, Phil" Subject: BOOKS ALERT - including possible book of the year (!) Whilst browsing through Amazon.co.uk I found the following three books in the "Chatham Publishing" - "during the year 2000" search area ; 1: (Must be candidate for book of the year) "Nelson to Vanguard" by David K. Brown, publication due 27th July 2000, price £35.00 (no discount). Although there is no description attached, this is the third of David Brown's books on the design of British Warships and carries on from the Washington Treaty ships (the Nelsons, dealt with in his last book) through to the end of the War (and the Vanguard). It should be the most illuminating and fascinating book of the year. 2: "The Allied Convoy System, 1939-45" by Arnold Hague, publication due 24th August 2000, price £25.00 (no discount). Again for fans of the Battle of the Atlantic and Anti-submarine warfare this should be a must, with appendices claimed to cover all convoys, with listing of all the ships involved. 3: (Especially for those with an infantile sense of humour) "The Chinese Stream Navy, 1862-1945" by R Wright, publication due 26th October 2000, price £25.00 (no discount). [I suppose we now have to talk about "Streamed Lice" instead of "Steamed Rice"] - sorry for the xenophobia. None of these books appear on the Naval Institute Press web site new books site yet, so I don't know what the best way is for those members in the USA who want them to get hold of them - I haven't looked in the USA Amazon.com site. Regards, Phil -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Valley Forge Hi Guys Thanks for your reply's concerning the Valley Forge. I have looked at the Naval Historical Center photos before and they are good to have, yet distant. What I found was confusing was either where there was used to be gun mounts was whip radio antennas and visa versa. It would seem that the twin 20 mm was in use until about 1951-2, now I went thru in my book collection and searched 22 books and only a few covered the post war era such as 1948-54 when this carrier class was in the middle of change due to jet aircraft. Since I'm using the Hasegawa TICONDEROGA kit in 1/700 scale it seems possible due to Skywave parts in E-9 for the radar's such as the SK-2, SX, or SM. Also I recall the Fujimi New Jersey kit has a SX radar for the Korean War version. With the 50 Th. anniversary of Korea next month I have noticed 2 new books have become the USNI has reissued the The Sea War in Korea and another one. Reading it (the first title) I was surprised to learn the North Korean seriously challenged the Navy with Russian made mines that were planted by sampan fishing boats to the point where by late 1950 Minesweeping became a top priory and caused the USN Admiral in charge of Korea to tell the Pentagon that we didn't control the waters of Korea. I hope someday a ship of the Essex class that was active in this time period is picked for a book. It will fill a gap. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: SMMLieCon 2 Well, let's see: We've got nominations for San Francisco, Nova Scotia, and the UK. What I haven't seen is anyone stepping up to assume responsibility for coordinating things and putting the meet together. Ask John Frohock and his crew: it won't just "happen." And before anyone makes a foolish suggestion, no, I'm not volunteering! I'll be there, wherever it is, I'll even talk again on camo if requested, but there's way too much going on in my life right now to assume that role too. Besides, I was in the Navy: "If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, paint it. And don't volunteer for ANYTHING!!" John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "graham" Subject: SMMLCon 2002 Well Portsmouth next year would be better, August time, Bank Holiday time even better. Why? well they are hosting the Festival of the sea/Navy Days, oerrrrrr all those ships:) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: BEN8800@aol.com Subject: For Ken Goldman Sorry going thru the list, but this is to Ken Goldman. Have not been able to send him messages. I keep getting returns saying "timed out, could not deliver in one day". Ken are you listening? Ben -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume