Subject: SMML VOL 916 Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 23:36:48 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Airbrushing Clear Flat 2: Re: Airbrushing clear flat 3: Re: Poor Devin web page 4: Re: Revell modern Iowa 5: Re: Painting clear coat 6: Airbrushing clear flats 7: Dream Come True 8: PBR patrol boat river 9: New Kits 10: Axis Order of Battle 11: Re: Fixing Warped Resin 12: Re: PT-109 13: Re: FLAT FINISH 14: Re: Small props, where O where? 15: Re: Iowa 16: Enterprise and decals 17: Re: Revell Iowa 18: Haleiwa Field 19: Re: Airbrushing Clear Flat 20: Re: Hawaii suggestions and then some 21: Re: Airbrushing Clear Flat 22: Re: Ken Goldman 23: RN Colour Schemes Circa 1930 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts 1: Re: SMMLcon 2001/2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Small scale props -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Al Superczynski Subject: Re: Airbrushing Clear Flat On Fri, 19 May 2000 00:13:07 +1000, Felix wrote: >> I would like to know the trick to properly airbrushing clear flat on a model. I have a bottle of Floquil and Tamiya clear flat coat and they are both milky and I am afraid to have that frosted finish on the model... << The Floquil will dry clear. If your Tamiya clear flat is marked "X21 Flat Base" *DO NOT* spray it directly on the model. It's meant as a flatting agent to be mixed in with their gloss colors and will definitely dry frosted if sprayed by itself. HTH, Al http://www.up-link.net/~modeleral -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Growlrr@aol.com Subject: Re: Airbrushing clear flat Hi Felix First of DON'T airbrush straight Tamiya clear flat on anything....The Tamiya product is a flat base, to be added to other paints to flatten them. It is not truly a paint in and of itself....Unless of course you have a winter scene in mind (I've actually used it to this effect on a couple of armor projects - shhh - dont tell anyone else I build armor too!) Floquil is a base additive as well, not a paint, but can be a bit more forgiving...I've has success cutting it about 50% with laquer thinner and dusting it on (and I mean DUSTING it from about 3 feet away) at about 25 lbs pressure. If you do this make sure that ALL the windows are open to ventilate the room or you'll kill the cat and the fish will start swimming backwards. For the easiest flat topcoat, I still haven't found anything better the good ol Testors Dullcote Laquer.....Buy the bottle and cut it about 35% with laquer thinner and dust it on at 20-25 lbs..Avoid the spray can version - it sprays way too thick and fast and this stuff is laquer, so it will eat thrugh any paint if you allow it to puddle.... Glenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Poor Devin web page What a wonderful idea! I checked out the web site and it's really nice to see Devin building the Farenholt kit as he goes for the first time. Don't appologize for the photos. They look pretty good to me. You're pretty good at modeling web pages. Well illustrated and you point out specific areas you're talking about very well with the different colored circles. Keep us informed from time to time since I may forget to look. If you run into any problems, feel free to contact me off list. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Revell modern Iowa >> Some years ago (mid-80s?) Revell put out a 1/350 modern Iowa, BB-61. As I recall it wasn't a bad kit. Does anyone know how hard that kit is to come by? << I recently heard that the Revell Iowa class ship (New Jersey) is going to be reissued very soon, so availability won't be a problem. As far as it being a bad kit, well when compared to the Tamiya NJ it's pretty bad. However, it sold for a lot less than the Tamiya kit. I would recommend getting the Tamiya New Jersey. The Yen right now is taking a beating and you can find these kits for about $40.00 if you see them on sale. For a ship that size, that's a bargain! I also produce a detail set for that model as well. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Painting clear coat I thin my Testor clear flat 50/50 and apply 2 thin coats. Two coats won't look milky unless you have a bad batch of clear coat. After all you're looking through about a gazillion layers of clear coat when you look through the bottle. Thus the milky appearance. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Jim Johnson" Subject: Airbrushing clear flats Hi Felix The biggest trick to applying clears to models is restraint. Because what we are spraying is clear we don't have the usual clues we use when we paint color. If what we are spraying can be seen, then we know that when the medium covers the base then there is enough coverage. Even then, it is very easy to apply too much and get sags and runs. When we apply a clear, there is not a good way to judge how much coverage we are getting. Coats that are too thick can frost. It is always much better to put a second coat or a third than to put too much on with the first coat and have problems. Thinning the clear is one way to avoid over-aplication. If you thin the clear 50-50, you put half as much on per pass. There are several problems with this. One is that sags and runs are much easier to obtain with thinner medium. The other is that a lot of thinners tend to flash off or dry faster than the medium. This can cause problems if the medium partiallly dries on it's way to the model. It will bounce off the model and stick on a nearby vertical surface causing a very rough texture on that surface. High humidity can cause clouding of paint. Clears, of course, are worse in this respect, since you can see through them. Make sure that the humidity is not excessive when you spray. Heating the paint and the model can help minimize this but is not a foolproof method. Mixing paint types can cause problems. You mention Floquil and Tamiya in the same sentance. They are two different types of paint. Floquil is an enamel and Tamiya is an acrylic. I would expect that Tamiya over Floquil may work but that Floquil over Tamiya would not work, but you don't know for sure. If possible, use the same type if not the same brand on top of eachother. Some paints off gas for days or even weeks after they are applied. If you put a faster drying paint on top before the base coat is dry, particularry different types of paint, then problems can occur. If you paint say Floquil and let it dry overnight you may think that overcoating it would be OK. Smell the model. You will most likely smell paint thinner. This means that the base coat is not completely dry. I don't always follow my own rules, but do as I say, not as I do. The most important rule here is TRY IT FIRST. If you have not tried what you are going to do then try it on a piece of scrap. I have a bunch of sheet styrene that are full of experiments. Some are color matching proects but a lot are "let's see what this does" type of experiments. You might even try a procedure that you know works just so you can perfect your techinque. Hope this helps. Jim Johnson IPMS 1788 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Richard Sherer" Subject: Dream Come True >> How's this for a perfect spouse- a typical Saturday morning, as we are doing some shopping, she asks me whether I need to go to the local hobby store for anything. I was planning on getting a new kit so we stop by. Inside, I decide between two kits and choose one. We get home and about ten minutes later, she pulls the other kit I passed by out of a bag! Turns out she payed for that kit while I had stopped to flip through some modelling magazines on my way to the cashier to pay for the kit that I had decided on. Don't believe it? It is 100% true. I guess she would rather see me sitting at home with paint and glue all over my fingers then in some bar on a weekday evening! << Yohan, I am sure all the bachelors want to know this......Does she have a sister? :) Jay Sherer Who has to hide all resin even though he is not married yet! :) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Clem Jensen" Subject: PBR patrol boat river Hi I'm building a model of the PBR [Pibber] boat of the Vietnam era. There was a program on television that covered the development of this boat. Does anyone remember the name of the show, the program that put it on [PBS, Discovery, etc.] and lastly is there a tape available? The model will be RC, 31" long and weigh about 10 lbs. It looks like a nice model. Clem Jensen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Jim Johnson" Subject: New Kits Tamiya has just anounced a bunch of new kits and among them are 2 new 1/700 kits. The site is: http://www.tamiya.com/japan/show0005/broadcast_0005_1.htm The text is Japanese but one is what appears to be a Northhampton class CA and a Japanese sup with Katans (sp?) on the deck. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Donald P Morgan Subject: Axis Order of Battle Seriously, folks, I'm in need of some help....I've been asked to set up a display of 1/1200 and 1/1250 scale ship models circa WW2, and while I have the models available (mostly), I need info regarding the order of battle for the Italian and German fleets at the start of that late, unlamented conflict. The Japanese fleet order of battle, I have. This display is to be entitled "THESE WERE THE ENEMY", and will entail display of about 400 ship models. Can anyone, please direct me to a source wherein I can find the information I need??????? Please???? Don Morgan/San Antonio, Tx. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Re: Fixing Warped Resin >> How to fix warped and bent parts: Heat affects resin. Resin parts can be heated and will become soft and pliable so they can be bent and shaped. << Don't know if other modellers use this heat source. The kerosene/paraffin type antique-look accent lamp with the fibre wick and glass chimney gives off a smoke free very hot and focussed source of heat. The glass chimney keeps the heat off your knuckles and areas of the workpiece that you do not want heated while you manipulate the workpiece. Raise the workpiece further away from the chimney opening and you can reduce the temperature. Otherwise wave it over the chimney opening to get a feel of the right working temperatures. Beats using the hot air paint stripper blow gun. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: PT191@aol.com Subject: Re: PT-109 To John F: Sir, By no means was I chastining you sir. I would NEVER do that - I was just sharing my data with you. No, sir, it's not in my book. I think the 109 is an over done issue. And, unfortunately John - my PT-109 was "done in" by my former cat. What was left of it, not much - was utilized by another modeler to build me a model of Kennedy's PT-59 as a PTGB. He used the guns (.50s) and the smoke generator and some cleats and the search light. T. Garth Connelly -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: HGYL@aol.com Subject: Re: FLAT FINISH Felix Bustelo has asked for advice on how best to apply flat varnish. My own experience with flat varnish over many, many years has always been disasterous. I have tried just about every brand of flat varnish available on three continents and not one of them has been satisfactory. The problems have been numerous: brush marks, milky finish if sprayed, not drying flat, simply not drying, leaving a sort of "sandpaperish" finish, yellowing (some of them quite rapidly) to mention but a few. I concluded a long time ago that the use of varnish over a painted finish is just not a good idea and that the only way to get a well finished model is to make sure that all surfaces are well sanded and clean before painting and then to use the best quality paint you can find, apply several thin coats (whether spraying or brushing), sanding and cleaning between coats as necessary. And a point it took me a long time to learn was that paint takes much longer to dry than most of us would like to think. I would not now recoat in less than 2 or 3 days, particularly if the finish is to be sanded before recoating. The paints I have had most success with are Humbrol and Floquil. Almost all other model paints I have tried are either too coarse or go on to the work unevenly, no matter how they are applied. And I have had absolutely no success with acrylics what so ever. I have in the past been tempted to use a gloss colour because it matched the colour I was trying to achieve and then flat varnishing. I have learnt the hard way that this is just not a good idea and I find now that I can achieve the colour I want by careful mixing. A tip that may be useful: those Humbrol semi-matt or silk finish paints can be made almost matt by allowing the tinlet to stand for a while then when they are opened the pigment will have settled to the bottom and the varnish in the tin can be poured off and turpentine or white spirit used to get the paint back to the consistency desired. I haven't tried with other brands but it may work. Other ways of matting a gloss finish are by careful rubbing down with 0000 wire wool or rottenstone powder applied with a slightly damp handkerchief (and don't use one of the lawn cotton hankies your mother-in-law gave you for Christmas because you will wear a hole in it). I presume everyone knows the trick of matting decals with Brasso before they are applied so there is no need to matt varnish those either. Harold Lincoln -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Eric Hougland Subject: Re: Small props, where O where? >> Can anyone recommend a place where I can locate small props? I'm working on a Lindberg LSU and I need to replace the stock props with ones in better detail in 1/2" diameter. Left and right turns as well. If not I could really use some tips on scratchbuilding seaworthy props in that size. << Try www.modelersboatyard.com/shipsnthings/index.html (908) 722-0075 They seem to have a good selection of miniature brass rh/lh propellers. Not inexpesnsive, though. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "graham" Subject: Re: Iowa Over here in the UK you can get Revel's 1/350 New Jersey at about £25. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: BEN8800@aol.com Subject: Enterprise and decals I got the Tom's decals for the Tamiya Enterprise and they are really great. However, the red-yellow foul lines around the elevators are very difficult to apply. I cut them in short strips. Only way to handle them. Even then you must be careful. Narrow stripes in general are hard to apply. In fact I tried to use the yellow stripes around the jet blast deflecter openings in the deck that came with the kit. I used Micro sol and set, but the stripes curled up like a tube. Hence ruined. The Tom's decal stripes did not do that. Not to jump on anyone, but I have the Gold Medal decal set and the recent Tom's Modelwork set. The red yellow foul lines in the Gold metal set are twice as wide as the new Tom's set. The Tom's set looks correct. The Gold Medal set looks out of scale. Too wide. Am I wrong? I have decided not to paint any solid color stripes. The decal sets don't cover the stripes in the landing area (although the Tom's set does have the white stripe for prop plane takeoffs) so I am using Chart Pak tapes for these. I also used these tapes for the yellow stripes around the jet blast deflectors. All in all they look quite good on this model and are easy to apply. A blast of flat finish seals them. Ben Lankford -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Revell Iowa Just a note here. For Mike Satin Revell Germany has reissued the USS New Jersey kit in 1/350 scale. Speaking of Revell Germany they will be issuing the USS Wasp class LHD in 1/700 scale. It's release date is October 2000. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Mike Connelley Subject: Haleiwa Field Howdy: I think the airfield you refer to is now known as Dillingham airfield. Today it's mostly used for glider rides and parachute jumps...and once a month the local astronomy club goes out there too. Anyway, take Kamehaha Hwy north and it forks...take the fork towards Wailua west and go that way towards Mokulea for several miles. There's a sign on the left side of the road for the glider rides and that's where it's at. At the far entrance, there used to be an F-101 Voodoo (at least most of one) and there used to be an A-4, but that was moved to Barber's Point to be restored with a few other A-4s and an F-4. Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: Airbrushing Clear Flat >> So, what is the secret - should I use a ratio of more thinner and less flat? Is there another solution? I would hate to ruin my Ajax model especially after painting that camo scheme on her. << Felix, the trick to clear coats is being careful. Because it is clear, you can apply a heavier coat than what you intend. My favorite is Polly Scale, which is acrylic. One advantage to an acrylic clear coat is that it will not yellow with age. I have never had any trouble with it as long as I did not spray it on too heavy. Thin it just like you would any colored paint, that is, the "consistency of milk" formula. Some clear finishes, if thinned too much, will appear blotchy after drying. Mike Settle I am not agent #1908 of the non-existent Lumber Cartel (tinlc)tm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: Hawaii suggestions and then some >> Contrary to what may be going through some peoples' minds, I do have a pretty good idea on how to spend my time during my honeymoon. :-) It was actually my wife-to-be that suggested we both visit these places while in Oahu for those days when we feel like actually doing something. I think she is just as excited as me to visit the ships at Pearl Harbor. Plus we have another week in Maui... << My wife and I spent our Honeymoon on the Big Island of Hawaii and Maui. It was a great vacation, the only problem was that we are from New England so by 8:00pm were were exhausted and @ 3:00 am we were wide awake! Still a great honeymoon though . >> How's this for a perfect spouse- a typical Saturday morning, as we are doing some shopping, she asks me whether I need to go to the local hobby store for anything. I was planning on getting a new kit so we stop by. Inside, I decide between two kits and choose one. We get home and about ten minutes later, she pulls the other kit I passed by out of a bag! Turns out she payed for that kit while I had stopped to flip through some modelling magazines on my way to the cashier to pay for the kit that I had decided on. Don't believe it? It is 100% true. << Don't worry, that won't last..... John Sheridan www.shipcamouflage.com I am not Unit# 631 of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) If there were a Lumber Cartel, the last place on earth I would look for it would be: http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Airbrushing Clear Flat It may look foggy in the botle, but it goes on clear. I haven't had any trouble spraying Tamiya or Gunze clear flats straight onto my models. Of course now, Kurt will go and spray some clear flat on one of his models and it'll blow up, too. If that happens, I promise to no longer give advice. Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Ken Goldman >> Sorry going thru the list, but this is to Ken Goldman. Have not been able to send him messages. I keep getting returns saying "timed out, could not deliver in one day". Ken are you listening? << I tried to contact him to reply to a question 2-3 weeks ago. Same experience, the message bounced. Ken, where are you??? Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Subject: RN Colour Schemes Circa 1930 Hello Everyone, Just recently I have had pointed out to me, by, that really nice chap and knowledgable person, Felix Bustelo, that I had painted my Airfix 1/600 scale HOOD, incorrectly in AP507B. The mistake is there for all to see on the WEM website as well. Apparently Hood was painted all over in AP507A in the 1931 period that I have modelled it. Now for the reason that I made the mistake................. If you have Snyder and Shorts brilliant set 1 of RN World War 2 colours you will see that AP507A appears as a very dark, almost black, grey. As I was telling Felix, I have a lot of old photographs of RN ships in an old family album, and the ships that appear in the Home fleet colours with the known dates, although they are a Dark Grey, they do not seem to appear as Dark as the AP507A chip on the colour chart. To back this theory up, the colour print of Hood on the back of Raven & Roberts Anatomy of the Ship appears to be of a shade or two lighter as well. The Snyder & Short colour list with the chart recommends that Humbrol 112 is a match for AP507A and whilst this is an excellent match for the chip on the chart, it looks really gross when a model is painted in it, and to me anyway, looks nothing like the images in the photographs. The colour I have ended up using to reproduce the shades in the photos is Humbrol 27 Dark Sea Grey would you believe Now the question arises. Is there another shade of Admiralty Grey that we don't know about, that was used in the 1920s and 30s. Or is it one of the World War 1 colours that was carried over and incorrectly named AP507A?? Is the colour chip on the chart really deck paint that has got mixed up with another and labelled wrong?? Is my colour perception completely up the creak, in which case I should just shut up and go back to sleep. I don't think so as the rest of the S & S colour chips that I can match up to pictures, do so very well. Please let John and Randy be assured that I am not getting at them in anyway. They have done a grand job to bring us these "Ultimates in colour References" so that ship modellers can get it right. I would not be without mine now. Theres nothing worse than seeing a ship painted the wrong colour.........is there Felix????? ATB Peter Hall -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Les Pickstock Subject: Re: SMMLcon 2001/2 John Snyder wrote >> I was in the Navy: "If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, paint it. And don't volunteer for ANYTHING!!" << My Father, A "PBI", always used to tell me never volunteer for anything except certain death. So I'll ignore this good advice and offer to be part of any organising for the event here in the UK. Les Pickstock. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Small scale props >> Can anyone recommend a place where I can locate small props? I'm working on a Lindberg LSU and I need to replace the stock props with ones in better detail in 1/2" diameter. Left and right turns as well. << I produce a set of surface ship propellers in 1/350, 1/400 and 1/500 scale. It includes props for destroyers, cruisers, battleships and carriers. Go to my web site and take a look. I have people using these things from everything ships models to torpedoes, depending on what scale they need of course. If you want a set, let me know. You didn't mention if you wanted R/C or static model props. Obviously these props are designed for static models. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume