Subject: SMML VOL 917 Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 23:58:14 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Tribal class website 2: Mariners' Museum Competition 3: E-mail problems 4: Re: RN Colour Schemes Circa 1930 5: Re: PBR model 6: Building for the fun of it 7: New Tamiya Kits 8: Missing Pages 9: Re: R/N colors 10: RN Colour Schemes 11: New Tamiya Cruiser 12: Re: Haleiwa Field 13: Airbrushing clear flat 14: Re: Hood Paint Colours 15: Re: Enterprise and decals 16: Re: New Tamiya Kits 17: GMM Flight Deck Stripe Decals 18: PBR Video 19: Korean War Exhibit 20: Re: Airbrushing clear flat 21: Re: Painting clear coat 22: Re: Tamiya releases 23: RN Colour Schemes circa 1930 24: Re: Northhampton class CA 25: Re: PT-109 26: Re: Fixing PE 27: Identity of ship... 28: Re: Heller colour callouts 29: Re: Dream Come True 30: Airbrushing Clear Flat -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts 1: Re: 2001 Convention 2: SMMLie Con 2001 - First Volunteer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: British Battleship Books on eBay 2: bucaneers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Tribal class website Thought someone might be interested, I came across a new website today about Tribal and Ton class ships. http://www.thewalkerfamily.cwc.net/navy.htm Darren Hu gang, Before all you RN WW2 fanatics start clicking, the Tribals are the Type 61's from post WW2 :-(, but interesting all the same ;-). Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Gene Larson Subject: Mariners' Museum Competition I don't believe that anyone has pointed out that the model that won best of show is a kit (obviously not straight from the box), and it won over all the scratch and semi scratch models. This is significant. Also notable to the number crunchers is the fact that 76% of the winners are NRG members. Gene Larson, Alexandria, Virginia Nautical Research Guild, Inc. http://www.Naut-Res-Guild.org "A non-profit, tax exempt, charitable, educational organization with international membership, dedicated to maritime research and accurate ship model building." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: E-mail problems To anyone who has been unable to contact me of late: There has been a concerted effort by person or persons unknown to disrupt service. The owner of my ISP is working with the FBI on this. Now there is a problem with his phone system suddenly changing the data lines to voice lines, thereby blocking any dialup connection. When that happens, the work around so far is to switch to another of the ISP's numbers. We are now up to the tenth one out of 30 possible. Hopefully this will be straightened out before we run out of numbers. So, at least for now, I'm still here. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: RN Colour Schemes Circa 1930 Peter, You're right about AP507A being dark--VERY dark. However, what you see on our chip is matched exactly to an official Admiralty shade card. That said, however, let me repeat something I've posted here before: AP507A is actually in the purple-blue family of colors as set forth in the 1929 Munsell Book of Color. Any photos taken of HOOD in the 1930s would have been shot on orthochromatic film. Orthochromatic film is blue-sensitive, and produces a completely different range of grays than modern panchromatic films which produce a range of grays that is more consistent with how the human eye interprets colors into gray tones. Orthochromatic films renders blues, and anything with blue in it, much lighter in the final print that we are used to seeing. Ever notice how most old photos always have a very washed-out sky, as if they were taken on perpetually overcast days? That's the reason. It's why USN ships in Standard Navy Gray #5 look SO light in the 1920s and 1930s photos. It's also the reason that ships painted up in AP507A look lighter in old photos...it's the blue content in the paint being rendered lighter by ortho film. Randy's Humbrol suggestion was intended to be a close match for full-strength AP507A. As I've mentioned before, he prefers to use full-strength colors on his models. If you want to lighten for scale effect, use that as your starting point. In fact, if you have your HOOD in AP507B you've done that in effect, since 507B was developed as a 50/50 mix of 507A and 507C. Does this help, or have I just made matters worse...? John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: PT191@aol.com Subject: Re: PBR model Yes there are tapes. Look in magazines like NAVAL HISTORY, PROCEEDINGS and the like and you'll find ads for cheap books and videos about ships, planes and armor. I bet you can get one or more there. T. Garth Connelly -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Hill, Robert L." Subject: Building for the fun of it It was a real pleasure to see the remarks about building models just for the fun of it. I have the greatest respect for those who research the most minute detail to build a model, but that is not what I do. I simply enjoy building models my way with whatever attachments I like and a paint scheme I think was proper. So I'm not a purist, that's OK. My challenge is to enjoy one of my hobbies and not be obsessive about it. I guess SEABEES tend to be independent. Guys, I really enjoy my Vol each day, and I do learn something from the crew. Thanks for letting me be a part of the fun. Bob Hill Jax, Fl. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: New Tamiya Kits Jim reported: >> Tamiya has just anounced a bunch of new kits and among them are 2 new 1/700 kits. The site is: http://www.tamiya.com/japan/show0005/broadcast_0005_1.htm The text is Japanese but one is what appears to be a Northhampton class CA and a Japanese sup with Katans (sp?) on the deck. << The cruiser appears to be INDIANAPOLIS (CA-35) in 1945 fit. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Missing Pages I recently bought a used copy of the book "Anatomy of the Ship: the Destroyer Campbeltown" by Al Ross and just discovered that pages 11 and 12 are missing! Would be happy to reimburse for a photocopy of same. Can somebody help? TIA, Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: R/N colors Home Fleet Dark Grey, aka 507a. Pre war photos of ships painted in 507a do tend to look lighter than the actual color card, this is because a large object seen in daylight with a percentage of the surfaces exhibiting a degree of spectral reflection and seen at beyond a certain distance from the camera, will tend to -----------LOOK LIGHTER! In addition 507a as used in peace time had a slight sheen, or gloss, and this would further lighten the look, which leads naturally onto the twisted subject called "scale effect", ie, the further the distance from the viewer then the lighter the tone. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: RN Colour Schemes Hi Peter You need to take into scale effect assuming that Synder and Short got their sample right (and I wouldn't put money on that not happening) and lighten the paint considerably. 507A was just the Royal Navy's classification for Dark Grey which could vary depending on who was mixing it. Another factor that made it appear darker or lighter were the weather conditions at the time the photo was taken. Humbrol 27 is actually not bad for effect (I use it for RN decks) but don't take the paint chips as gospel - use them as a starting point and go with your instincts. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: New Tamiya Cruiser Hi Jim Looks like a model of the Indianapolis to me. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Re: Haleiwa Field No no, Haleiwa Field really is near Haleiwa, on the northeast side of town. It's overgrown. Dillingham Field was built later. Burl Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 808-263-6087 buzz@aloha.net A historical interpretation company. Visit our web site at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SAMI ARIM Subject: Airbrushing clear flat Hi Felix, I learned from experienced modelers from my local club, when i switched to airbrush, that the best way to give the models the final coat is the Testors Dullcoat. It is laquer based, wont harm any finish and will seal every medium you use for weathering your model. It will also finish with a very nice semi satin & flat finish. It will flatten any fishing line for your antennas (if you are using them)and make them more realistic. Use testors laquer thinner to thin it and any laquer thinner to cleanup your airbrush. regards Sami Arim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Frank Allen Subject: Re: Hood Paint Colours Hi Peter! Frank Allen of the HMS Hood Association here. From what we have and what the crew can remember, Snyder and Short got it right...AP507A was very dark. From our records, it would appear that Hood wore this colour for the dates specified on our web site. As to whether another grey was used during that time frame, I believe it's possible but doubtful. What you need to take into account are: 1) the film stock used...the film may have been more sensitive to different colours/shades, 2) the lighting/weather conditions 3) the condition of the paint (weathering) and 4) mixing errors on the part of the painters. I have indeed seen many a photo of Hood during the 1920s through mid 1930s that show her as being both dark and light...some of the photos were taken at the same time or within a short timeframe of each other. So, I feel she was in AP507A and that the appearance was effected by one of the items I mentioned above. BTW - Would you mind sending a photo of your Hood to "Battle Cruiser Hood" for posting in our "Hood Models Gallery?" We need a shot of an Airfix 600. Don't worry...we don't mind if it's painted the wrong shade! We just like to see people building our ship. Especially when it is as detailed as yours!!! Thanks Frank -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Re: Enterprise and decals Hello Ben, Thanks for the comments on the Enterprise decal set. I apologize for the difficulty in applying the elevator stripes. Due to the process I use and the thinness of the decals, there really isn't much alternative, though. the two elevator foul lines (the one on the elevator and the one on the flight deck) for each elevator are positioned the correct distance apart so that you can actually apply them together, if the elevators are flush with the deck. The width of the stripes are correct. I checked that with current and past members of the crew and compared photographs. I considered adding a line for the pop-up railing on the flight deck but as of yet can not get it to look correct. The foul lines embossed on the deck of the model are much too wide. I did not do the landing stripes due to their size and the fact that I thought they could be painted without too much pain. The same went for the yellow vertical stripe on the stern. If you or anyone else feels that I left something off that should be included, please let me know. I had to stop production for a week due to problems with the alignment (the yellow was being printed .020" off). I have solved the problem and will be getting back to work. Regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: YHSAIO@aol.com Subject: Re: New Tamiya Kits Hello: I think the US CA is the Indianapolis. I remember seeing a thread on the Warship Board saying that Tamiya was planning to release the Indy. It should definitely be an improvement over the Matchbox kit, but couldn't they release a different cruiser, like a plastic New Orleans or Brooklyn? Or even a RN cruiser (like the Dorsetshire or Canberra). Of course, the Indy is (in)famous for her last mission and I guess that's the reason that they decided on this ship for a new kit. I guess the kit will sell in Japan, even if it's just a bit politically incorrect, and money makes the world go around, right? :-) Don't know about the sub, but if it's a Kaiten carrier, it's probably the I-58, the ship that sank the Indy. Maybe Tamiya could package the two kits together as sort of a "dogfight double", like the Prince of Wales kit which includes a Betty torpedo bomber. At least Tamiya is interested in the ship market, as evidenced by the last few releases (Bogue, Shinano, Ohsumi) so I guess it's not all that bad. I could live with another Indy, even though I would rather prefer the entire Pearl Harbor battleline be released in plastic. Let's see, perhaps Tamiya could release a Repulse to go with my Prince of Wales (some wishful thinking). Yunchi Hsaio -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Loren Perry Subject: GMM Flight Deck Stripe Decals To Ben Lankford - The flight deck stripes on the GMM Naval Ship Decal set (No. 350-1D) measure a scale 12 inches in width. Modelers wishing to narrow them down can use a steel rule and a sharp X-acto blade to slice them down to any width required by the project being worked on. This width allows for slight mis-registration in the manufacturing process (it happens with mass-produced decals) by providing enough excess to trim off and still leave enough color for a complete stripe. Loren Perry/GMM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: PBR Video >> I'm building a model of the PBR [Pibber] boat of the Vietnam era. There was a program on television that covered the development of this boat. Does anyone remember the name of the show, the program that put it on [PBS, Discovery, etc.] and lastly is there a tape available? << I believe one related program was "Vietnam Gunboats", an episode of "The Great Ships" series on the History Channel shown in the US. The History Channel web site has this entire series available on video. Look at www.historychannel.com for more info. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Korean War Exhibit Although temporarily closed for renovations, I just read that the Washington Navy Yard museum has opened up an exhibit called "Korea 1950-1953: The Navy in the Forgotten War" in the nearby annex building as part of the commemoration next month of the 50th anniversary of the start of the Korean War. It includes a restored and fully outfitted LCVP as used at the Inchon landing, as well as a portion of the actual Inchon seawall. More details are available at: http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/news/news20-2.htm Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: Airbrushing clear flat Glenn Arnold wrote: >> (I've actually used it to this effect on a couple of armor projects - shhh - dont tell anyone else I build armor too!) << *GASP* The horror..........the horror........ John Sheridan www.shipcamouflage.com I am not Unit# 631 of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) If there were a Lumber Cartel, the last place on earth I would look for it would be: http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: Painting clear coat >> I thin my Testor clear flat 50/50 and apply 2 thin coats. Two coats won't look milky unless you have a bad batch of clear coat. After all you're looking through about a gazillion layers of clear coat when you look through the bottle. Thus the milky appearance. << I personally use Tamiya X-21 Flat mixed in Future Floor Wax for my flat finish. It gives the model a good tough clearcoat with no waxy buildup.... Anyone who saw my model of the SALEM at the SMMLcon; this is what I used as a final finish on that model. John Sheridan www.shipcamouflage.com I am not Unit# 631 of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) If there were a Lumber Cartel, the last place on earth I would look for it would be: http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Ismail Hassenpflug Subject: Re: Tamiya releases A quick look at the Tamiya website with a japanese-capable system brought the following info: 1. The cruiser is the Indianapolis 2. The sbumarine is I-58 in her final configuration, carrying kaitens. Also the Corsair F4U-1D looks good, for the naval aircraft buffs.... I wish I could have gone to Shuizuoka this weekend for the Hobby Show, but studies didn't permit that. Next year.... Cheers, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "John Rule" Subject: RN Colour Schemes circa 1930 Quite often if a ship which was painted in a dark colour like AP 507A would look lighter in a photo if the photo was taken with orthochromatic film. Any colour containing blue or blue-gray appeared to be lighter in the photo. In painting models some aficionados recommend "scaling down" the colours. I seem to remember an article which I believe was in Scale Aircraft Modelling and was written by Ian Huntley (a colour aficionado) suggesting that at 1:700 scale lightening colours with 25% white would give the correct scale affect. There was even a graph to show the variation in addition of white for any scale. Taking account of the scale affect, maybe your choice of Humbrol 27 to represent AP- 507A isn't far out. I certainly wouldn't repaint it. It is never really correct to paint models with colours that are too dark. We are constantly reminded never to use black when painting a model especially if it is matte. Sincerely John Rule Hi John, Yes it was in Scale Aircraft Modelling, Ian wrote a regular column in it. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "graham" Subject: Re: Northhampton class CA Nah, looks like the last USN CA to be sunk to me the Indi btw there was a program on Discovery on her sinking today, luky me I just had a blank tape to :) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: Re: PT-109 T.Garth Connelly, I tried sending this to you directly to save space on the list. It bounched back. So here it is. It's not a flame, Honest. Mr. Connelly, I just wanted you to know that I did not in any way take any offense in your statments. I considered it a healthy discussion on a very over done subject. I hope you have taken the discussion in a similar vein. At first I hoped that you did have documentation on the actual tiedown methods used. I would gather from your statements that while your source is a little more direct than mine, it has not brought any new authenticated information to light. I guess we shall have to put this down in the same catagory as Bismark's turret top color. On a related note, when our museum was first formed we were contacted by the Kennedy Library. They wished to sponser a fund raising event for us and would present a PT-109 model to us for exhibition. The trick was we had to supply the model. When I was informed of this project I told our Director that PT-109 models were very common. What would make a great exhibition model was of the Japanese DD that cut her in two. The Director didn't think it was at all interesting (or humourous). So I did the model as requested. I am still at the museum. He isn't. End of story. Best Regards, John Frohock USNSM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Re: Fixing PE >> I'm having problems fixing PE to plastic can anyone tell me the best type of superglue (cyanoacrylate0 or any other method for sticking this material so it will stay where it's meant to. << I'm also new to using PE but I have found a glue which is both easy to use and easy to correct when the inevitable mistake occurs. I'm using Elmer's Craft Bond "Tacky Glue" (there's a reorder number on the label, E-430) which dries slow, is a bit thick and has a wonderful tackiness which easily holds the light etched parts in place. By holding, I mean that the fresh glue has held rails in place even when the work was place in the horizontal. If you decide to remove and reposition the piece . . . no problem. You have about 20 minutes to make your decision before it becomes messy to remove. I've been using the tacky Elmer's to fasten unpainted PE rails to painted plastic decks. Works good and dries into a surprisingly durable assembly. Elmer's is water soluble so, if need be, the dried durable assembly can be broken down by the application of warm water. Dried overspill and drips can also be removed with the light touch of an X-Acto knife. As for technique, I've applied the glue as both a continuous thin bead on the deck and as a spot weld. To finish the assembly I've thought about applying a little super glue along the deck/rail junction just strengthen the bond, but so far the Elmer's alone seems to be doing the job. Elmer's also seems to cover nicely when a touch of paint was applied to the unfinished rails. Maybe this is just because the glue is white and the paint I used was white . . . this item remains to be fully explored. After I finish the plastic kits in my closet, I'll give Elmer's a try on a resin kit. The label says it bonds on most semi-porous surfaces, so we'll see how it performs under stress. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: tom Subject: Identity of ship... I saw an interesting ship today while driving by Mare Island... the "General Hugh Gaffey". It does not show up in any of my references, could this be an Army vessel? Can anybody identify? Tom K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Allan and Crystal Plumb Subject: Re: Heller colour callouts From: Shane Weier >> Which leads me to wonder out loud whether SMML has previously discussed the destroyer colours I'll need for my Z-boat project. << (So, Shane, how many of those Z-31s and T-23s are still in the box? :-) To answer your question, that would be me. I asked about the deck colors a while back, mostly the "oak" suggested by Heller for Z31. I was told "no, dark grey" and I used that. Of course, after painting the deck, I put it back in the box... The question/response would be in the archives, I presume. I saved a copy but would have to search for it. (#@%&, where's my "grep"?) Allan Plumb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Allan and Crystal Plumb Subject: Re: Dream Come True > Jay Sherer Who has to hide all resin even though he is not married yet! :) << _My_ wife bought me the BWN Perry kit. And said she likes the larger scale Tamiya and Heller kits because of all the little pointy bits. And has learned not to dust them. (Now if I can only convince the new kitten not to gnaw on Strasbourg...) Allan Plumb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: Paul Jacobs Subject: Airbrushing Clear Flat I was surprised to read about the hassles people are going through with clear flat sprays. I have been using Testors Dullcoat for years, thinned with Testors lacquer thinner and sprayed through my Pasche airbrush for years with consistent success. Never a problem sprayed over both enamels and acrylics. I have models done ten years ago which have never yellowed. I keep a small paint jar of the stuff, already thinned. When I need it, I just take off the cap, screw on a spray cap, attach to the airbrush and shoot. Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: 2001 Convention May I sugest that the 2001 convention be held in NYC on the carrier Intrepid. By holding the convention in NYC it would be very convenient for me for travel and costs, and I would think that there are a few people who live in the area that can organise the thing, something that I would not be able to do. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Duane Fowler Subject: SMMLie Con 2001 - First Volunteer Hello All, I would like to make it official. If there is interest in having the SMML Con 2001 on the west coast of North America, I would like to personaly volunteer to start the process. I served in the US Coast Guard 20 years ago and learned the same lessons that John Snyder did, but hey, Since when did the ET's ever listen to anyone else? If the rest of the SMMLies would rather go somewhere else (I personally think the Halifax sounded pretty nice!) I wouln't mind waiting until 2002 but I figured that someone had to throw their hat into the ring. After John Frohock and Larry Ouellette told me what a breeze it was in Quincy anyone can do it, right guys? Best regards, Duane Fowler (Sami, I hope you were serious!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: British Battleship Books on eBay Hi, In case anyone is interested, I have listed the books British Battleships of World War Two by Raven & Roberts and British Battleships of World War One by R.A. Burt for sale on eBay. You can find them by searching under "british battleships raven" or "british battleships burt." Both auctions end next Tuesday, May 23, 2000. Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Laurie Menadue" Subject: bucaneers Hi all, I'm searching for a source for bucaneer figures (pirates)in either 1/50, 1/60, or 1/90 scales. Anyone with any info please contact me by return mail at: lmenadu@tpgi.com.au thanks Laurie Search & Deliver Services in association with MENADUE MODELS www1.tpgi.com.au/users/lmenadu Home of the MENAD Railroad Systems in Tropical BOWEN, Queensland, Australia -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume