Subject: SMML VOL 929 Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 01:28:48 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Norman Ough 2: Landing Carrier Support (Large) LCS(L) 3: HMS Warspite 4: Badger Modelflex Paints 5: Airfix RAF Rescue Launch 1/72 6: PT 109 problem 7: Intelligence...? 8: Re: The late Norman Ough 9: Re: Kiev 10: U.S.S. Marblehead 11: Airfix RAF rescue launch 12: Anatomy of the Ship: HMS Dreadnaught 13: 1/700 Revell Graf Zeppelin 14: Re: Emden and ASR Launch 15: Pre-War Wickes Class Destroyers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts 1: Re: Smellie Con 2: Re: SMMLcon 2001 - A Space Odyssey 3: Re: Re: SMML 2001.. FOTS.. YES!!! 4: Re: SMML Cons 5: Re: Smellie Con 6: Re: SMMLcon 2001 - A Space Odyssey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: June Internet Modeler 2: LST model wanted -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Norman Ough From what I can remember, the late David MacGregor came into possession of many of Norman Ough's items. Trawling through my memory I seem to remember that the dispersment of his things created some friction as to who should have them. Among the most prominent was a FULLY detailed 1" = 8' foot scale radio controlled model of the Matabele constructed in tinplate. I saw the model many times as it gradually neared completion: A stunning model; where it went after his death I have no idea. His biggest grouping of models was held at the Imperial Museum and included Dorsetshire, The old cruiser Vindictive (as converted for the raid on Zeebrugger and even included the flame throwers that were fitted), this model had more atmosphere than the Dorsetshire. A model of the submarine Osiris showing a torpedo being loaded through the deck hatch, The cruiser Penelope as refitted with twin four inch AA guns, The Battlecruiser Glorious or the Courageous. (I cannot remember which), but built as an aircraft carrier, the level of detail was amazing! All of the models just listed were in 1" = 16' scale. There were also a few detailed models at 1"=32' scale of World War One Battleships. It is possible that there may be additionally models of his at the museum that I am not aware of. There was and probably still is, an Ough model of the Carrier Illustrious (1946 appearence) held in the Maritime Museum at Greenwich. At one point in time an idiot at the museum replaced all the correctly dated aircraft on the model with a bunch of swordfish aircraft. This happened after Ough had died. I remember an exquisite model of an open mounted singe four inch high angle gun. That went somewhere. The photo collection of close-up and on-board view, where they went who knows? One of his projects during the war was to do some modelling work for the film "In Which We Serve". All of the large scale constructions for this film was done by the carpenters, and he told me his opinion of them in two words "bloody carpenters". In the post war years he gradually began to alienate a few of the Admirals when he could not get what he wanted. He let people know how he felt, and it also did not help his case by visiting HM ships wearing a red tie (especially in the late fourties and early fifties period). His open interest in UFOs did not endear him and attending meetings wearing only one sock out of a pair did not go down well. The older he got the more he refused to suck up. I have some information on the accuracy of his famous plans, on which I will post some brief notes in a day or so if anybody in interested. Hi, Yes please & thanks to everyone who is posting on Norman. This is great stuff. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Luke Andersen" Subject: Landing Carrier Support (Large) LCS(L) My grandfather served on the LCS(L) #55 during World War II. I am trying to capture as much information about the LCS as possible to include acquiring a model of the ship. The LCS' were nicknamed the Mighty Midgets and were produced between 1944 and 1946. Can anyone provide any information on if there exists a model of the LCS(L) or if anyone can get one for me to purchase. thank you Luke Andersen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: HMS Warspite Hi Alan If you haven't already done so you could try looking for the Warspite's action report for the period (the Public Records Office has quite a few documents for the Norwegian campaign) or the aircraft encounter report (if that still survives). Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: BillBramha@aol.com Subject: Badger Modelflex Paints The Modeler's Boartyard (http://www.modelersboatyard.com) is currently running a half-price sale on Badger Modelflex Paints in USN colors, once rumored to be out of production. I'm not affiliated with the Modeler's Boatyard, except as a satisfied customer. Bill Bramhall -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Leslie Brown" Subject: Airfix RAF Rescue Launch 1/72 A good reference is the Military Modelling Magazine of October 1977 - includes colour profiles as well! Also Model Boats Magazine of July 1975 and January 1980, Airfix Magazine of August 1979 and May 1980. For More details of the history of the British Power Boat Company, try 'Fast Boats & Flying Boats' by Adrian Rance. If anybody knows of a book which covers these vessels (or other British Power Boats RAF craft and MTB/MGBs) in more technical detail, I would be keen to hear about it. Les Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: PT 109 problem Charles, it sounds as if you have managed to kink the prop shafts or the stuffing tubes a bit. As this is a somewhat smaller r/c model the forces on the shafts are not too high. You can make your own stuffing tubes and drive shafts w/o a lot of work. Go to the local hobby shop and select some solid brass rod of the correct diameter for threading for your props. Thread the end for the props. Also while at the hobby shop pickup a single piece of brass tubingthat will let the shafts be a slip fit. Then get two pieces of the next larger size tubing that will fit right over the first piece. Cut the larger tube to the proper length for the stuffing tube. Cut some 1/4" long pieces off the smaller tube and solder to the inside ends of the larger tubes thus creating a sort of bearing surface for the shafts. Fit the completed stuffing tubes into the hull and secure in place with epoxy after you rough up the outer surface of the tubes for a better grip with the epoxy. That should give you servicable stuffing tubes for your PT 109. If you want to make the tubes first class, fit a vertical piece of tube to the top surface of each stuffing tube clase to the end by the motors and solder it in place over a hole into the stuffing tube. Now you can add lubricant to the stuffing tube whenever you want without having to remove the prop shafts first. Use a water resistant grease or oil in the tubes. Hope this helps. Take care, Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL NRG member -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: Intelligence...? Dear Mr. Jenkins/Butterley I do appreciate that 'intelligence' is possibly a new concept for certain colonial factions among us. On the other hand, I can't but help be amazed at the sheer dedication and industry of SMMLies on this side of the pond. There's dear Tim Stoneman and Chris Langtree busting their gut out there trying to help me get HMS Onslaught's colour scheme right for the PQ18 diorama ......Not a word from the colonies. Certain (colonial) branches of SMML could learn much from this approach. {8^þ) Regards, Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo, tena he tao kupa kaore e taea te karo......(Te Reo Maori) But Chris, how can I help you, when you've already taught me everything I know on O class DD's ;-þ Shane PS: nice Pepperpot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: PT191@aol.com Subject: Re: The late Norman Ough To John Lambert: It wasn't just the dogs John, it was also an old c'mudgeon of a cat too! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Ismail Hassenpflug Subject: Re: Kiev Regarding Mike Leonard's note on the Kiev, I have to point out that if it is indeed passing along the South African coast, then the ports for a stopover would be Cape Town or Durban, not Johannesburg, which is 2000km inland - if the carrier were going there, it certainly would become a huge tourist attraction on the way! Ismail Hassenpflug, MSc.Eng -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Puckhead93@aol.com Subject: U.S.S. Marblehead Does anyone have any information on the U.S.S. Marblehead? Any details on where it was stationed and what class it was. I have a friend who's grandthfather served on her and it got my curousity aroused too. Thanks Josh Mayne -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: Airfix RAF rescue launch The most useful sources I found were a series of articles in Military Modelling October 1977 by John Pritchard (he refers in that article to a 1/72 line drawing in Model Boats July 1975 and a two view colour illustration in Battle magazine January 1976) and also in Airfix Magazine by the same author. The Airfix Mag articles were in August 1979, May 1990 and November 1979, with a single photo of 142 on page 39 of the September 1979 issue. I also found a longitudinal section and deck plan of one (and several other types of ASR) in WD Pereira's 'Boat in the Blue, published by Line One Publishing. If you are interested in converting the Airfix ASR, the ubiquitous Mr Pritchard (I think Al Ross said he served on one and also helped with the kit research) wrote up how to turn it into MGB 43 in Airfix Mag February 1980 and building a 63ft MA/SB in the same journal's September 1980 issue. Robert Lockie Cambridge UK Still hoping that Vol.3 of Allied Coastal Forces will one day appear with details of the BPB designs..... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Joel Labow Subject: Anatomy of the Ship: HMS Dreadnaught I have seen a number of postings looking for this out of print book recently. I noted a copy just now on eBay in the Toys:Plasticmodels:Military:Sea section (and no, I'm not the person selling it!). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Paul O'Reilly Subject: 1/700 Revell Graf Zeppelin All; Someone asked about the Graf Zeppelin in an earlier issue. I've just finished building the model and I can make a few observations, for what it's worth. I used the Schiffer book on the Graf Zeppelin as my prime reference as I have almost nothing on the German Navy from WW II. If that book was wrong then so was I. Hull. The casement guns are a bit small for the space provided so one can see all the way through the ship. I added an internal vertical bulkhead to prevent this. The guns are also located too far inboard so I removed the locating lug and moved the guns further out. The ship's layout shows the forward guns being able to point straight forward while the model's guns point out at an angle if you put them in the position directed by the instruction sheet. Davits/Boats. The davits as fitted in the model appear to have the boats in a "ready" position which is not quite swung out, as a ship would have at anchor, but not "swung in" either. I think that a ship on the high seas would have the boats swung in to prevent damage from wave action. The boats cutouts appear to be deep enough to permit this (swung in), but the model has the davits mounted at the deck edge with a small portion of the davit sticking out over the side. I suspect this portion of the davit functions as a slide to ensure the boat, when lowered, will clear the ship's side. Maybe someone with more experience than I could shed some light on this. Catapult Return Device. I not sure what it's called in the German Navy but the aircraft were catapulted off with the use of a "dolly" or "trundle". Once the aircraft was catapulted airborne, the dolly was lowered to a deck under the forward edge of the flight deck. It was then sent aft on a sort of railway to a point near the forward elevator where a specially designed elevator lifted the dolly to the flight deck to meet the next aircraft. The support assembly for this device, which attaches to the forward end of the flight deck in line with the catapult track is too short. There is a little space between it and the fo'csle deck. Anchors. The bow anchors are a wee bit too large but I used them anyway. The stern anchor, which should be considerably smaller, is far to big and there is no opening on the starboard quarter for it to be mounted so I left it off. Communications Aerials. These are located on the port side. If you install them as per the instruction sheet they will be on backwards - if you believe the Schiffer book. I think the Schiffer book is correct. The little triangular assembly at one end of the aerial should be toward the hull. Hull Platforms. On the port side of the hull opposite the bridge there are two small decks that stick out from the hull. They are mirrored on the starboard side, which are correctly located. The port side ones are not in the correct place. The layout in the Schiffer book shows the correct placement. Bridge Superstructure. The model does not accurately reflect the shape of the upper portion of the island structure. The bridge area near the forward end should be larger, wider and longer than is depicted in the kit. I didn't fix my model as I was too far along to take corrective action when I noticed this error. Yardarms. The instructions show the yardarms mounted directly on the deck of the island! I guess the researchers don't have much sea-time because such an arrangement would have been very dangerous to the crew. Those aerials carry a very large electrical charge and I would not like to step on one as I ran to my action station. A gun is located immediately adjacent to one of the aerials so that gun crew would be in greater danger from the aerial on the yardarm than from any attacking aircraft. The Schiffer book shows the yardarms are located up on the masts that are located right next to them. The after-most yardarm is fitted to the slanting mast aft of the funnel. Mainmast. The mast just forward of the funnel is not shaped correctly. The higher radar should be on the after side of the mast. If the mast is fitted that way the searchlight platform faces to port at a 45 degree angle. This is wrong. The searchlight platform should face to starboard at a 45 degree angle. I cut it off and made a new one correctly positioned. Both masts, foremast and mainmast, need an extension of thin stretched sprue to make them taller. I just added about 8 mm of the stretched sprue to the after side of the mast. Flight Deck. The catapult tracks are heavily molded, but since they were to support the catapult dollies they might well be correct. Apparently, the German doctrine was not to conduct free-deck take-offs as most of the other carrier nations were doing. As the aircraft came up the elevators they would be started up and taxied onto the dolly and fired off with the engine reaching minimum operating temperature just prior to the catapult stroke. I also note that the Bf 109 aircraft were to be catapulted off with their gear already up! A gutsy maneuver, I must say. The dollies are heavily molded and I left mine off. The photo on the side of the box shows a 109 on the dolly. It is at an extremely exaggerated nose-high angle which never would have worked in reality. Another example of poor research, I think. After Elevator. The after elevator can be left off to depict a lowered elevator. It is typical in that it looks like a well with no detail of the hangar decks (Graf Zeppelin had two). I painted the after and forward bulkheads black to signify the adjacent hangar space as I didn't have it in me to build a hangar deck(s). Decals. The flight deck stripes are not symmetrical and come in several pieces which have to be placed in a sequence. The aftermost decal which shows the horizontal stripe is way too wide, that is it extends too far to port. It has to be shortened so that it does not go as far to port as the instructions would have you believe. The center stripe goes right through the middle of the elevators. The right stripe is just inboard of the island and it is a straight line. The port line just clears the after elevator but it is a curved line until it reaches a point just forward of the after elevator. The curved portion runs more-or-less parallel to the port edge of the flight deck. Aircraft. The kit aircraft are heavily molded. I replaced them with WEM aircraft which are real gems, especially the Bf 109s. I also used the WEM PE for those aircraft (wheels, props and stuff). I folded the wings on some of the aircraft, aft folding for the Ju 87s, like the Wildcat, and vertically for the 109s, like the Corsair. Note that the 109T, the naval variant, did not have folding wings, but I presume they would have eventually as most other navies went that route. I do have an article from an IPMS magazine that shows the 109T with a wing fold line which would mean a vertical fold. Apparently, the flaps would have had to be removed to conduct the manual wing fold. Photo-Etch. I used Tom's Modelworks PE for the ship. The radars, railing and deck supports really made a big difference to the look of the ship. So that is what I did with my model. I don't claim to be right, but how wrong can I be with a ship that never sailed with aircraft she never had! I hope this helps. Paul O'Reilly Winnipeg, MB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Les Pickstock Subject: Re: Emden and ASR Launch A few years ago after many years of building tanks I finally decided to build a boat and bought the EMDEN. I also met Dave and Caroline Carter for the first time and bought the GMM PE set for it. I can highly recommend the model, the PE set and Dave and Caroline. The RAF Launch for my money is one of the best things Airfix have ever made. It has only a couple of small defects IMHO. Firstly the rolled scramble nets are integrally moulded with the deck and are tricky but not impossible to correct. Secondly, The crew figures could have been done better. All this apart its an excellent kit. As for references there were 3 articles published in Airfix magazine about ASR launches which had photos and drawings (I think). I'd be happy to let you have copies if you contact me off list. Les Pickstock. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com Subject: Pre-War Wickes Class Destroyers Hi All, Thanks for the help with a source of supply on the Anchor chain. Can anyone help(some of the "paint guys" perhaps) with the color schemes used on destroyers in the 1920's and 1930's. I have collected some info, much of it conflicting. The most common thread seems to be Haze (Light??Battleship???) Grey on all vertical surfaces and dark grey on the decks. Any help would be appreciated. John Impenna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Smellie Con >> I think we ought to have the next con at Steve Wipers house. He's got everything we need....a cement pond and a ton of ship models to play with! Joe of JAG << OK, but everyone has to dress in Roman costume, listen to Mariachi's playing Twisted Sister, try to keep up with me in the beer bong drinking, eat a lot of dead animal, and maintain a discreet composure while observing my beautiful wife and all her foxy friends in bikini's. So, tell me, what are we all meeting here for???? Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: SMMLcon 2001 - A Space Odyssey Dave, this is HAL.. Dave, what are you doing? Don't do that, Dave... Dave? DAAAaav... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Re: SMML 2001.. FOTS.. YES!!! >> Mr "Chips".. I thought YOU might be in the wings somewhere! << Never far when the lovely Caroline is about! >> I'll send a few tapes over to help you along. THEN of course, if folks can STAND my bagpipes, violin, errr... more guitars, flutes etc.. Anyhows, surely you're not going to play THAT lot at once! << Don't call me Shirley! And no, I was assuming you'd help.. >> Well, so happens as I've ridden in a Miata (MX5) already, and it WAS pretty cool (topless, you see.. the car, not me, by the way..). OK anyone got any advice on shipping a vehicle over to the U.K. Wouldn't like to have to pay V.A.T. at 17.5% on THAT little beastie! << Oh, you'll love riding in mine..top's down all the time (the slipstream carries any precip right over the top, but I can tell you that one gets pretty strange looks from other drivers when tooling along in a rainstorm or snowstorm with the top down! Doesn't work well with hail though..hailstones at 60 per sting!!). You'll certainly improve its looks, too! As to shipping advice, yes please. >> Errrmm.. I'll be moved out near to Bromyard in 4 weeks, a little ways out from Ledbury.. I could certainly find you room though! << Thanks! You're on!! >> .. and you haven't seen Herefordshire yet... a shock to the systems to you "non-cultured" Yanks ;¬)) << Non-cultured Yanks? There are those who would say that's redundant (don't go there, Shane!). Still, I've found that my ancestors were from Devonshire, Slapton to be precise. It'll be like coming home... >> (Dive, Dive, Dive.... Periscope depth of course.. wouldn't want to miss the action!!) << Better rig for silent running, too... John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Tom Detweiler Subject: Re: SMML Cons I would discourage San Francisco as a SMML-con site except daytour visits, for the reason that it doesn't respect veterans or Navies at all: This is the city that has lobbied to keep the Iowa OUT of San Francisco (at last report undecided), has told the Navy it might no longer hold "Fleet Week" there, has barred nuclear powered USN vessels from entering the port of SF, is publicly scornful of the Blue Angels/complains about the noise, etc. - The city's lunatic inmates are running the asylum there. "Da Mayuh" Willie Brown pretty much spat in veteran's faces this Memorial day, giving them a whole $1000 for funding "for all veteran-related Memorial Day services" and a public suggestion that the vets go find funding elsewhere by holding bake sales. Meanwhile, Gay or Lesbian Leather-loving Bikers Parades or anything like that get $45,000 for their "activities". The growing list of anti-American, anti-military provocations and insults is almost endless in San Francisco. The city council gets all its money for funding its specially favored politically correct friends through an exorbitant 6% hotel tax, which is on top of the usual federal and state excise taxes. I vote to not give Babylon by the Bay any more funding through tourism! (Oh gee, Frank, there I go giving an OPINION again, sorry buddy but it is on topic!) Why give this hostile environment any business? However, that being said there are other smaller cities around the Bay worthy of investigation, such as Vallejo (home of the mothball fleet) and others, which might also have the advantage of not being so full of other tourists that booking a meeting place would be possible-something you can't guarantee in SF. And for those of us on the Left coast, one of the ships in the area might be a great regional SMML-con site, anyway. Just my thoughts on the subject-"free advice and worth the price". Tom D in Rocklin CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: Smellie Con >> I think we ought to have the next con at Steve Wipers house. He's got everything we need....a cement pond and a ton of ship models to play with! << Hot-damn! We can have overselves a real darn good, honest-to-goodness Hootnanny at Wiper's place.! He's gots real offishul electricity and even dems fancy indoor plumin! Joe, You bring the sqeezins and i'll make the resin and possum pie! John Sheridan www.shipcamouflage.com RFD Tobacco Road Boondock Arkansas 66666 I am not Unit# 631 of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) If there were a Lumber Cartel, the last place on earth I would look for it would be: http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Allan and Crystal Plumb Subject: Re: SMMLcon 2001 - A Space Odyssey >> Gee, with all these great ideas for earthly locations, has no one considered the Space Station? Of all years, there is only one 2001. Think of it, almost equidistant from everybody. << Yes, and maybe by SMMLCon 2001 it'll actually be almost habitable. Maybe. I work on the darn thing, as one in a cast of thousands, and although I'd like a short visit I don't think I'd want to stay long. Besides, wouldn't be much of a party place: max of 6-8 crew, no bars except the Russians probably have vodka, no smoking for those who indulge, and _very_ few pretty-members-of-opposite-sex. (My wife says as long as I only look it's OK.) OB modeling reference, albeit not naval: my wife got me the Intermountain Railway kit of the Space Station last Christmas. It has a prominent place in my unbuilt pile. >> Dave Riley I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that. Shane << You had to say it. :-( Allan Plumb, Houston Texas And since I'm here: I'd like to go to the UK for SMMLCon 2001, but realistically San Francisco is the only one I'd be likely to actually attend since I can visit family too. YMMV. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: June Internet Modeler Greetings all, The future of modelling is safe and in the hands of the next generation. . for proof, check out the article on Renee Perry's first model in the new Internet Modeler. And for the older reader we have the following OT subjects: 1/350 USS Vincennes by Richard Eaton; reviews of the 1/700 Fujimi Spruance Class, Samek 1/700 Tashkent and type VII destroyers. Plus book reviews, and some of those things with wings or tracks. Check it out Regards, Bob Pearson Managing Editor / Internet Modeler http://www.internetmodeler.com For those on AOL who have trouble accessing the site, try http://www.internetmodeler.com/june2000/contents.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: louellet@uism.bu.edu Subject: LST model wanted Hi, I'm looking for a copy of the Lindberg or Naval Base Hobbies version of the LST kit for a former crewman. I didn't ask what he is willing to spend but he wants to build it, so any buildable version is OK. If you have one in your 'to be built someday' stash, or have an extra, please get back to me. Thank you. Larry Ouellette, louellet@uism.bu.edu Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) United States Shipbuilding Museum Quincy, Massachusetts, USA http://www.uss-salem.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume