Subject: SMML VOL 934 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 00:13:10 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Destroyer Camo 2: Authentic Graf Zeppelin 3: 109's??!! Aaarrrrggggghhhhh!!! 4: Re: PF USS Burlington 5: Re: Cheesy Poofs and modeling articles 6: Re: London Treaty 7: PF Info and general kit observations 8: Acrylic Gel Medium 9: Re: Another Admiral Graf Spee Color Question 10: Queen Mary/Queen Elizabeth, etc. 11: Re: Unusual Ship Kits 12: Whatcha buildin'? 13: Tamiya Hornet 14: Re: Plans for the USS Montana 15: Re: cheesy poofs 16: WWII Patrol Frigates (PF) 17: Boulder 18: Re: N Class Destroyer Book 19: Testors USS America -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts 1: Re: SMMLcon 2: SMMLcon 3: Re: SMMLie Con200? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: ICM 1/350 KONIG/GROSSER KURFURST Kits/SAMEK kits at the best prices! 2: Classic Warships 1/350 California 3: Judges Handbook on the web soon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com Subject: Destroyer Camo Hi All, Does anyone know what Measure the USS Reuben James DD-245 was wearing in October 1941, prior to her sinking?? I have plenty of info as to the different measures that were in use at this time, but nothing specific to this ship. I tried the USN Camouflage site that John Sheridan has and there was no info for this ship. Any help would be appreciated. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Summers David Col 56 MDG/SGPMI Subject: Authentic Graf Zeppelin Although it's useless to debate the authenticity of fantasies, the Graf Zeppelin would never have sailed with Me-109's due to unresolvable landing gear deficiencies in all models of the airframe. Carrier operations require a robust undercarriage. Not only did the Me-109 have a narrow wheelbase (which limited the success of other aircraft such as the Seafire), but landing gear collapse was the number one cause of non-combat loss in all models--never could be corrected. The first 12 Me-109s would have splatted on the deck upon landing, and the aircraft immediately withdrawn from naval service. On the other hand, the Fw190 could have been easily adapted to naval use. In addition to a wide wheelbase and rugged construction, the Fw190 had superior performance in low-to-middle altitudes, where naval engagements take place (the Me109 excelled at high altitudes). There are those who claim (incorrectly) that the highly successful Hellcat was modelled after the Fw190. A naval Me-109 was just as much an engineering impossibility as a naval FB-111--even though artist's concepts exist for both. David Summers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Satin, Michael N. (LNG-SHEP)" Subject: 109's??!! Aaarrrrggggghhhhh!!! Oh no! I thought that this list was at least one place I could go to get away from discussions about German WWII "speculative" designs and 109 thingees! And now they've cropped up here!! Help!!! OK, as a balance, anyone have any good info on kits of Israeli Navy available out there? Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: PF USS Burlington >> I would second the call for good drawings of the Tacoma-class PF's. Anyone know of any << The Floating Drydock has sold a set for BURLINGTON (PF 51) for years. It is a very detailed set drawn by Tom from the original booklet of general plans. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Cheesy Poofs and modeling articles >> I have't been aboard long enough to know what "cheesy poofs" refers to, but I do know an excellent modeler, writer and photographer when I see one. Rusty White's article on resin shipbuilding in the most recent "Fine Scale Modeler" is excellent. The tip on casting for small parts was more than worth the price of a subscription which I am sending in today. Congratulations Rusty, and I hope we see many more such projects. << I get a lot of requests for an explanation of this sign off, so here it is. Anyone who watches the South Park TV show is familiar with this quote. The quote is from a tubby, fowl mouthed little brat named Eric Cartman. Cheesy Poofs are his favorite snack food. When his mother asks him if he wants Cheesy Poofs while watching TV, the answer is always, "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs." I'm sure many of you couldn't live another day without knowing this bit of information. Thanks for the compliment concerning the article. I don't accept praise well, and I'm blushing as write this. Incidentally, "Resin Shipbuilding 101" was the name I gave the article. The "Lessons from a Master Shipwright" was their idea. I'm not a master shipwright. If you wish to see a master shipwrights work, look at Bob Stienbrun's USS Kidd on the Warship web site. I'm sure Steve Wiper will end up making far more off that article than I, via sales of his excellent USS Salem and Indianapolis kits featured in the article. Besides the techniques end of the deal for FSM, the reason I wrote the article was to bring more awareness to ship modeling. Most non-ship modelers have no idea of the quality and selection of ship kits on the market today because of the efforts of companies like Classic Warships, Iron Shipwright, WEM, Corsair Armada, etc., etc., etc. There's another article working it's way through the bureaucracy at Kalambach dealing with working with photo etch parts. When and IF it ever makes it into publication, I don't know. I haven't been paid for it yet, so your guess is a good as anyone's. I am also currently working on a really cool article for a future issue. I'm glad you enjoyed the article. And better yet, that you picked up some tips that may help you on future projects. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" Hi gang, Rusty also edits a column in the IPMS(USA) Journal called "Ships n Tips" - which is also a good read ;-). Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: London Treaty What you need is, "British Government Foreign Policy Documents, 1919-39, 2nd series, Vol one", published by HMSO, 1946. This will give you everything that you want on the subject, because it quotes the Treaty IN FULL, word for word. NO AMBIQUITIES, NONE! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Satin, Michael N. (LNG-SHEP)" Subject: PF Info and general kit observations I would like to third the request for more PF info, though in my case I'm interested in paint schemes. PF-69 was named after my home town, Davenport (Iowa). I'm willing to do the kit (once I get one!) pretty much as is but I have no idea how to paint it. Any ideas? Thanks! I'd like to make a general observation about building as well. I decided that for my first big project I'd be better off doing a plastic kit instead of a resin one, since I have lots more experience working with plastic. So I'm pretty deep into my Tamiya 1/350 Iowa with the CW conversion and GMM set. I have to say I'm not so sure I was right! The resin kits I have don't have those huge deck seems and have a LOT more detail on the bulkheads than the Tamiya kit, which I have to add a bunch to (thank you Loren!) So maybe, once I'm done with this, the resin kits won't seem as daunting! In any event, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you all for the great advice and inspiration you've given me over time, it's really helping me to do this model, though perhaps I shouldn't say anything 'till I'm done! And thanks to the resin and etched metal makers too, I'd hate to be in this hobby without them! There now, this is better than 109's (as in Me, not PT) isn't it? ;-> Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SAMI ARIM Subject: Acrylic Gel Medium Acrilic gel is obviously a water based medium. So it can be thinned with water. The gel itself is difficult to work with. I use an eyedropper to sprinkle some water to thin the gel to make it more workable. Instead of painting the gel, I paint the base, later adding the gel. After waiting a day I replace the shipmodel onto the gel. The gel will secure the model on the base and once it is dry it will give you the sense of water. This method works for 1/700 models pretty good. Try to keep the thickness of the gel 1/8 of an inch. Regards Sami Arim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: NEVENGER@aol.com Subject: Re: Another Admiral Graf Spee Color Question Ok I am new at this information page. So I hope I am sending back correct. I have a book with a color picture of the Deutschland that may have been taken in the spring of 1939. The photo does not home in on the stripes very well, but I am guessing that on the rear turrent (starting from stern of ship to bow) the colors are red, white , black. The name of the book is The German Navy At War 1935-1945 volume 1. I beleave the book is still in print and common. The color photo was on page 97 of the book. On page 51 there is a very good black and white picture of the fowarnd gun turrent with good black and white contrast of the stripes. I am guessing again but I beleave the foward turrent stripes are (from front of turrent to back) red-white-black. The picture description also confirms the colors of the aerial identification of the Spanish Civil War. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Jodie Peeler Subject: Queen Mary/Queen Elizabeth, etc. hello all.... I've been away for a while, relocating and what all, but now I'm back.... Anyway, I'm glad someone mentioned Ross Watton's "Anatomy of the Cunard Liner Queen Mary." This book is absolutely essential for anyone who's building any QM model -- it has lots and lots of useful stuff that covers her entire service life, and there's also some excellent troopship drawings in there. The problem is, I think it's currently out of print and may be difficult to find -- but if you can find one, grab it and don't let go! It's *that* good. Someday when I finally build my Revell QM, I intend to keep this book at my left hand (since I'm right-handed). Now a question that has kind of something to do with the QM. I got the Airfix re-pop of the Queen Elizabeth yesterday, and after the requisite cooing over seeing one of my favorite ships in convenient kit form, I noticed that the superstructure detail is kind of...well, lacking. Worse, what *is* there consists of raised squares representing big windows. I don't have the time or patience or ability to sit there drilling out hundreds of square windows, and I don't have the wherewithal to photoetch new bulkheads and all. Does anybody out there have any ideas on how I could get acceptably busy results with the least fuss? I'm thinking that decal windows may be an option, even though they won't have any depth. Any ideas will be much appreciated. jodie http://www.mindspring.com/~raisingirl/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Unusual Ship Kits Ned: I picked up the Jingyuan at one of the local plastic pushers about two months ago. This is a protected cruiser (spelled Ching Yuan in Conways) with three eight-inch rifles, two six inchers and a variety of other armeament. She was designed by William White (my favorite naval architect) and built for the Chinese by Armstrong in 1886. She and her sister ship were sunk in the 1894/95 Sino-Japanese War. The model is not far from being a toy (the instructions admonish young'uns to "play under guide of adults!") The parts are rather thick, as is the detailing (the deck planks look to be a good three-scale-feet wide). She can be built as either waterline or full hull and has all the parts for motorization (ew neat, more thin electric motor wire for rigging). Same kind of challenge you'd get from the Lindberg or Revell Olympia or Glencoe Oregon. Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Marc Flake Subject: Whatcha buildin'? I'm about to start on the Seals Models MIKASA. What's everybody else doing On Topic? Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: Tamiya Hornet Fear not. The Tamiya CV-6 is not very accurate, as a result of being an amalgam of various arrangements over the ship's service life, but the Hornet is very accurate. I added small triangles to the bow of the flight deck to get the right shape, revised the 20mm arrangemrnt outboard of the island, and added photoetch, but I think that's all it needed. Just make sure you get the camouflage right - the hull is Sea Blue and Ocean Gray, and the island is Ocean Gray and Haze Gray. It's easy to miss the color change at the flight deck (I did on mine, and I'm not alone). E-mail me off list for some scans of my model. It's not great by any means, but I can show you how the bow should look - they revised the Yorktown class design to how the Wasp (CV-7) was done in this one instance. Michael Smith Marshall, Texas Hi Michael, Hows about sending the scans to Mike as well for the SMML site. I know of at least one other SMMLie looking at building one ;-). Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Re: Plans for the USS Montana I wrote previously about using Hypercosm to shrink down AutoCAD files to those that can easily be shipped across the Internet without bandwidth problems. A colleague and Sr. VP there told me this in regard to AutoCAD plans of the USS Montana that a list-member offered me off-list. >> FYI. The user will have to acquire a AutoCAD to 3D Studio Max converter, then use MaxLink to get to Hypercosm format. << They Hypercosm tools are free from Hypercosm.com - I don't know about 3D Studio Max... Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Ron Hillsden" Subject: Re: cheesy poofs I wondered when someone was going to mention this. I ran across a couple on the street a few weeks back, but I couldn't convince them to move....... &-} (Sorry, couldn't resist. I speak 3 languages - English, Canadian and American!) Ron Hillsden (across Georgia Straight from South Park) Victoria BC Canada My Boat Club: http://members.home.net/vmss Model Boat Flags: http://members.home.net/ron-hillsden -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: WWII Patrol Frigates (PF) The SMML thread lately about plans for the PF-3 Class ships kept nagging at me and I finally remembered to check my back-up stash in the old steamer trunk. We have a 3 page set of plans, not pretty to look at, but showing enough info on the Kaiser/Gibbs & Cox designed Patrol Frigates to do something with. The plans are old copies, originally done as white-line blueprints. They're not in the best of shape as they were copied by a drafting room assistant who was probably rushed and dashed out a set not caring that the plans were on the light side. The sheets consist of Hull Lines, Inboard Profile, Hold, Lower Decks, Foc'sle, Upper & Superstructure/Bridge Decks. It's a real bummer that there is no Outboard Profile and that's why they were stashed away in the "maybe come in handy someday" file. These plans, dated 1943, state that they cover all the ships in the class; according to the applicable hull numbers. All shipyards participating in the program are listed. The Hull Lines would be useful because the U.S. built ships were modified from their British River Class ancestors with 1 foot added to the beam and additional length added amidships. They were just shy of 304' in length overall compared to the British ships at 301'-6". Although the drawings are of fair to middlin' quality, I will take them to the blueprint shop to see if they're salvagable as large size Xerographic prints in 1/8"=1' scale. Contact me offline if you might have an interest in obtaining copies. Victor Baca Photomarine Archives modelships@earthlink.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Szilveszter.Hobe@nokia.com Subject: Boulder Hi All! Is there anybody here from Boulder, Colorado??? Bye, Hici H-1968 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: N Class Destroyer Book Hi Chris and SMML, I'm pretty sure I got my copy of the book on the N Class Destroyers from Antheil Booksellers in New York. They typically carry a lot of naval books from Australia. I don't know if they have an e-mail address, but the telephone number is: (516) 826-2094. Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Ralph Batykefer" Subject: Testors USS America I am wondering if the Testor's USS America is an accurate model or just a copy of the Testor's USS Kitty Hawk (although she is a sister ship, they have many differences). I've read Bert Kinsey's Detail & Scale USS AMERICA about the problems with ARII and Monogram 1/800 kits, but the Testors kit was not yet produced. Any feedback would be appreciated... IHS, Ralph Hi Ralph, Dunno if it's any help or not, but irrc, the Testors is the Italeri re-boxed. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Donald P Morgan Subject: Re: SMMLcon Regarding all the conversation about a convention site.....just for your consideration....Corpus Christi, Texas is now the permanent home of the WW2 CV Lexington II. One wonders whether the hangar deck of that imposing ship might not be made available as a convention site??? Just remember...NOBODY visits south Texas in the summer time. Why not buzz the Corpus Christi Chamber of Commerce??? Don Morgan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Ferek, Ronald" Subject: SMMLcon Hello Friends, I've been reading the various inputs on where to hold the next SMML convention and listened to the virtues of places like Philadelphia, NYC, Boston, Charleston, Baltimore, Pearl Harbor, San Jacinto, San Diego, San Francisco, Buffalo, Pensacola, Wilmington, Portsmouth, Norfolk, Alameda, etc. Having been to the naval museums/memorials in all of the above (except San Jacinto/USS Texas), I would recommend the following: Pensacola/Mobile in the spring or fall. The Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola is not only the best military/naval museum, but the best single museum that I have ever visited. It will knock your socks off. The Alabama/Drum exhibit is only an hour away, and for those spending a few extra days, the Kidd and Texas are within striking distance. And if you go in March/April or October/November, the "Redneck Riviera" with its seafood, hotels (off-season rates) and best beaches in the US offers incomparable advantages over any of the sites mentioned above. If you haven't been to this part of the world, you don't know what you're missing. My $0.02, Ron Ferek Arlington, VA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "David Miller" Subject: Re: SMMLie Con200? I haven't "earned" my dues yet to be a good SMMLie but I know a good site that has not been discussed. The Tidewater area of Virginia has the Mariners' Museum (which is second to none in ship models), The Norfolk Navy base, Littlecreek Amphib Base, Portsmouth Navy Yard (Where you can almost `touch' the ships as they come in & out, plus a small museum), Langley Air Force and several air-space and other nearby museums, PLUS Virginia Beach! I have been a Lifetime member U. S. Navy League since 1982 and am still a member of their Richmond, VA council. MOST "Guest of the Navy" cruises are out of Norfolk or Littlecreek. I would guess that with sufficient notice, enough "guests" slots could be made available for a SMML/USNL day cruise aboard an amphib vessel or an LHD. It would require USNL membership ($25/yr), but it could be possible. Our council arranges special outings once or twice a year, sometimes with a barbeque on the fantail while underway. So all of you REAL SMMLie's, think about Tidewater, Virginia in your future plans. Dave Miller Palm Bay, FL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: ICM 1/350 KONIG/GROSSER KURFURST Kits/SAMEK kits at the best prices! Hi Guys, The ICM 1/350 GROSSER KURFURST kits finally arrived today. The ICM 1/350 KONIG is being shipped to customers at this time. Price for either is 42.54 Pounds ($66.00) Plus shipping at cost .. about 9 Pounds ($14.00) airmail to the U.S.A., 11 Pounds to Aus. and the Far East, and 3.30 Pounds in the U.K. We are now in a position to progress further with PE 3517 1/350 KONIG/GROSSER KURFURST Photoetched brass detail set (will be shipped post free of course!) We will be receiving the full range of SAMEK 1/700 Kits very shortly: All kits include Eduard photoetched brass details: FIRST PRICE POUNDS STERLING (GBP). SECOND PRICE U.S. DOLLARS RAZUMNYJ Type 7 1941 Russian destroyer 8.29 ($12.85) TASCHKENT 1941 Russian destroyer 9.32 ($14.45) DKM NURNBERG 1943 light cruiser 22.94 ($35.55) USS ALASKA 1945 Battle cruiser 39.95 ($63.92) DKM LEIPZIG light cruiser 1939 22.94 ($35.55) DD DD 537 THE SULLIVANS 16.13 ($25.00) Z-28 Germany 1943 16.13 ($25.00) DKM KONIGSBERG 1929 22.94 ($35.55) Z-17 Dieter von Roeder 16.13 ($25.00) Z-19 Hermann Kuhne 16.13 ($25.00) USS GUAM 1945 39.95 ($63.92) HMS YORK 1941 28.04 ($43.46) DUNKERQUE 1938 French Batlecruiser 40.81 ($63.26) HEISTERNEST Germany 1944 8.29 ($12.85) BISMARCK Germany 1941 40.81 ($63.26) BECHELAREN (ex-President Masaryk) Germany 1941 8.29 ($12.85) TIRPITZ Germany 1944, 40.81 ($63.26) Battleship NOVGOROD (Russia) 1873 8.29 ($12.85) Ubootbegleischiff "SAAR" (Germany 1940) ... is this the top secret underwater doughnut delivery vessel the Gerams were working on?? Price 16.13 ($25.00) Shipping only ever charged at cost overseas.. ask for a quote! U.K. and EUROPE, Please add 17.5% VAT! Coming Soon: PRINZ EUGEN 1945, HMS ESKIMO 1940, HELA 1941(Germany), Russian battelship OKTABRSKAJA REVOLJUCIGA Orders to me please! All The Best, Caroline Carter http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models White Ensign Models, for a fine range of photoetched brass for 1/600, 1/700 and 1/350 scale kits, and THE finest warship kits and upgrades in the world! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Classic Warships 1/350 California The 1/350 USS California BB-44 is available thru Pacific Front Hobbies and is in stock. This is the older kit originally designed by John Ficklen who originally started Blue Water Navy. The kit later appeared thru Commanders, and was eventually sold to me, last year. I have taken the kit and done quite a lot of updating. As new information has become available, the kit needed to be upgraded. The hull has the missing strengthening plate. Details added to the superstructure. The CXAM radar antenna has been added. The California, like many of the other ships in the USN at that time used a 3in./50cal AA gun as supplies were running short on the quad 1.1in. mount. These are now in this kit. The photo etch has been completely redrawn on my computer, with relief etching. The instructions are all new, in my exploded, isometric views. Hull numbering decals are included for the first time. It really is like a new kit. The casting quality is now much better. The sister ship, USS Tennessee BB-43 is on its way to the casters as you read this. The Tennessee had a completely different superstructure and this is well represented in this kit. Due out at the IPMS National Convention at Dallas, TX. on July 20, this year. See Pacific Front Hobbies to order this kit also. Thanks, Steve - www.classicwarships.simplenet.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Judges Handbook on the web soon At the risk of getting my butt chewed off and spit in my face, I have an announcement concerning........ JUDGING! No kidding, the last time judging was discussed here well, it was more cussed than discussed. The IPMS/USA Contest Committee has been working diligently since the Nats. last year to get the Judges Handbook (renamed Competition handbook) rewritten, brought up to date and put on the web for all to see. I just read the first draft and it looks really good. It should be very helpful to anyone interested in judging models or anyone with questions as to what we look for when judging. As I said, this booklet literally spells out what the National judges look for when judging models in IPMS/USA National competition. Every category is covered so there's something for every type of model there is. I've been told the goal is to have it on the web before the Nationals in Dallas, so check the IPMS/USA web site often and download your copy when it's available. Rusty White Head Ship Judge (with my helmet on my butt) "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume